CenterPoint Energy Smart Meters

[Subdude]

First of all, Centerpoint isn't "the government", so don't let paranoia get the better of you. Second, CDeb is absolutely correct. Part of the whole reason for smart meters is so that people can understand the market price of power and adjust their usage accordingly. The idea isn't to coerce, it is to provide market incentives to use electricity optimally. They will charge more in the middle of the day because the market price of power is higher in the middle of the day. The market doesn't benefit by subsidizing customers to burn power during peak periods.

[crunchtastic]

First of all, Centerpoint isn't "the government", so don't let paranoia get the better of you. Second, CDeb is absolutely correct. Part of the whole reason for smart meters is so that people can understand the market price of power and adjust their usage accordingly. The idea isn't to coerce, it is to provide market incentives to use electricity optimally. They will charge more in the middle of the day because the market price of power is higher in the middle of the day. The market doesn't benefit by subsidizing customers to burn power during peak periods.

Thank you for bringing basic economics back into the discussion. I like the idea of smart meters a lot. My only gripe is that I suspect we could be paying that upcharge for the hardware long after Centerpoint recoups the price.

[Marksmu]

Thank you for bringing basic economics back into the discussion. I like the idea of smart meters a lot. My only gripe is that I suspect we could be paying that upcharge for the hardware long after Centerpoint recoups the price.

I am all for free market - I dont even mind the part about Centerpoint being able to monitor my usage on shorter intervals...and you are correct people will adjust their habits to use power when it is cheaper...its not that part of it that bothers me...I do not care about being monitored and charged for what I use on a volatile pricing schedule....what I am against is the ability of Centerpoint to talk to my meter, and to shed or limit loads to my house...Im free market all the way but with acceptable limits. When the grid is heavily stressed $1/kwh is VERY expensive....We dont get warnings when its costing alot to do something...its not like other technologies. Right now if your running your AC and your electric dryer and blow drying your hair, all the same time, not a huge deal, but at $1kwh that could be upwards of $50/hr on peak usage and people dont know it.

If they are going to do it, there needs to be limits until people adjust to the outrageous new cost of peak usage. Because in comparison to what they have been paying, thats exactly what it is, its an outrageous new fee.

Also, I too believe the "fee" for the meter they are installing on my house, without asking if I want it or not is bogus...its going to be like the toll roads, even once its payed for 10x over they will keep charging it. Its just another tax...They just happen to have a total monopoly on the line industry so its take it or leave it. What other industry can you pass the charge of a product that makes your business easier, more efficient, and cheaper for you, onto the customer? None - the true free market wont pay for you to upgrade your system. They get almost all of the advantage to this system AND they get to pass the cost onto us! Brilliant!

[Mr. Chenevert]

I am all for free market - I dont even mind the part about Centerpoint being able to monitor my usage on shorter intervals...and you are correct people will adjust their habits to use power when it is cheaper...its not that part of it that bothers me...I do not care about being monitored and charged for what I use on a volatile pricing schedule....what I am against is the ability of Centerpoint to talk to my meter, and to shed or limit loads to my house...Im free market all the way but with acceptable limits. When the grid is heavily stressed $1/kwh is VERY expensive....We dont get warnings when its costing alot to do something...its not like other technologies. Right now if your running your AC and your electric dryer and blow drying your hair, all the same time, not a huge deal, but at $1kwh that could be upwards of $50/hr on peak usage and people dont know it.

If they are going to do it, there needs to be limits until people adjust to the outrageous new cost of peak usage. Because in comparison to what they have been paying, thats exactly what it is, its an outrageous new fee.

Also, I too believe the "fee" for the meter they are installing on my house, without asking if I want it or not is bogus...its going to be like the toll roads, even once its payed for 10x over they will keep charging it. Its just another tax...They just happen to have a total monopoly on the line industry so its take it or leave it. What other industry can you pass the charge of a product that makes your business easier, more efficient, and cheaper for you, onto the customer? None - the true free market wont pay for you to upgrade your system. They get almost all of the advantage to this system AND they get to pass the cost onto us! Brilliant!

If companies are offering $0.10/kwh today for 2 years... I can venture a guess that even at peak demands, the equilibrium price is nowhere close to $1/kwh. We still will be able to choose our electricity providers... we will still have contracts that have terms and conditions.

Im sure there will be a peak and off-peak price built into the contract. The only difference is the smart meter will allow you the homeowner to decide when they want to use their power... during peak times or during non-peak times.

Nobody will be shocked to find out they paid an outrageous price/kwh after the fact.

[Marksmu]

If companies are offering $0.10/kwh today for 2 years... I can venture a guess that even at peak demands, the equilibrium price is nowhere close to $1/kwh. We still will be able to choose our electricity providers... we will still have contracts that have terms and conditions.

Im sure there will be a peak and off-peak price built into the contract. The only difference is the smart meter will allow you the homeowner to decide when they want to use their power... during peak times or during non-peak times.

Nobody will be shocked to find out they paid an outrageous price/kwh after the fact.

This may come as a surprise to you then, but businesses who operate on the MCPE pricing schedule saw that $1.00/kwh happen not once, not twice, but three different times in Houston already this year. It happens...as it stands now homeowners are immune from that type of pricing, but businesses who have been operating on the future price schedule have been dealing with this type of pricing scheme (if they choose to) for several years....My company was on MCPE 3 years ago, got off for a year, back on, and then off again this past year.

But $1.00/kwh is not a pipe dream, its already happened.

[cottonmather0]

I kind of share the paranoia that the power to manipulate customers' electricity usage is a scary one to give to the utility, but at the same time, if people start seeing just how much their electricity usage actually costs during high load periods, then it's a good thing, if only to spur the construction of newer and cheaper power sources like clean coal and nukes.

Not a big deal in Texas, really, but I used to trade electricity in California and the NIMBY consumers out there need to be educated (the hard way) that demand cannot grow unrestricted while keeping supply constant and prices low.

And FWIW - Centerpoint's income is (mostly) non-dependent on how much electricity you use. They don't necessarily benefit financially from more granular bills, although it certainly will help with the condition and maintenance of their grid system in high load circumstances.

[Arivechi]

I fear all power given to the government now a days...it does not seem that they pay any attention to the things that matter and pay all the attention to the things that dont. Its a good thing we have hearings over steroids in baseball while the economy is teetering, etc...They dont listen to the people anymore they tell us what they want us to believe, and then talk down to us, while they exempt themselves from their own rules.

I for one dont want to have to ration my electricity usage - I dont want to ration my health care, I dont want to ration anything I dont want to...this is the USA not some third world country - build the power plant, upgrade the grid, and if you want to opt out of more regulation you should be able to do so.

Who said electricity was going to be rationed?

And how does a "smart meter" installed by Center Point equate to the government monitoring each individual's electricity use?

[20thStDad]

Who said electricity was going to be rationed?

And how does a "smart meter" installed by Center Point equate to the government monitoring each individual's electricity use?

Adjust your foil hat, it will come to you.

[ricco67]

Adjust your foil hat, it will come to you.

This is about as big as the big announcement of when Ch. 13's weather was going to put part of their forecast in CELSIUS!

Oh, the horror THAT was.

[bulldog]

The CenterPoint smart meters are Itron OpenWay meters. They will record 15-minute interval usage and demand data. If you're curious, the LCD on the meter displays your peak demand in kVA (which your old residential meter didn't record). There are numerous benefits to these meters, not just CenterPoint not having to send out human meter readers. Unfortunately, most people have no concept of how electricity is generated and distributed and a lot of the replies in this thread demonstrate that.

Potentially the biggest benefit of smart meters is the ability for residences to realize the cost-benefit trade-off of using electricity during peak usage periods. Currently, you pay the same rate each month regardless of when during the month you use power. Once smart meters are widely deployed and suppliers start offering time-of-use rate plans, you can potentially save yourself a lot of money by shifting non-critical usage to off-peak times.

Why does this matter? The electric grid has to have generation capacity (including typically about 20% additional reserves) to meet the peak demand at any given time. All electricity is generated in real-time as it is needed (there are no giant batteries anywhere). Annual peak demand occurs during the afternoon of the hottest day of the year. During the rest of year, there's a lot of unneeded generation capacity going unused. If total demand on the grid keeps increasing (it does every year) then we continue to need additional generation capacity to meet peak demand which only occurs for a small fraction of the year. If we are aware (through time-of-use electric rates) when it is most expensive, we can shift our usage (e.g., running a dish or clothes washer) to a different time, not only saving ourselves money but reducing the need for additional generation capacity which means overall electricity rates stay down (you're going to pay, indirectly, for someone to build that new power plant).

In addition, smart meters will allow things like same-day electric supplier switching because the meter read can be done instantly and remotely. Also, they eliminate the need for estimated readings because the meter can always be read at its scheduled time. If your electric rate varies each month then you could get screwed by an estimated reading if it's inaccurate. Another benefit is that CenterPoint will know immediately and precisely when customers lose service through automatic outage reporting (the meters can still communicate for a period of time after losing power).

Yet another benefit is that the meters support Zigbee, which is a standard for wireless home automation integration. Eventually, you will be able to integrate appliances and your thermostat with your meter. So for example, you could tell the air conditioning to cut-off if the real-time electricity price exceeds some threshold.

There's nothing to be paranoid about. There is no CenterPoint conspiracy to screw you. Smart meters are being installed across the country. Texas happens to be slightly ahead of the curve in this area though.

[SilverJK]

It is all about lowering the load. You can use more power daily, but on a more balanced curve it requires less generation, saving the polar bears. Solar is interesting because it produces peak energy at the same time of peak demand. How handy.

[Mr. Chenevert]

Interesting article about the energy savings that smart meters can bring..

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10357360-54.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0

A test city in North Carolina is seeing average energy savings of 15% with smart grid technology.

[Arivechi]

Looks like the program to bring "smart meters" to Houston won't take as long as previously planned now that CenterPoint received a bunch of stimulus money:

Stimulus powers up 'smart grid' from today's Houston Chronicle

"The funds will cut two years off CenterPoint's 5-year, $976 million rollout of the smart meters, said CenterPoint spokeswoman Leticia Lowe, and reduce the total amount assessed customers through their monthly electric bills to pay for the upgrade. Since early this year, customers have paid an extra $3.24 monthly charge. After two years, the payment will drop to $3.05 but will continue for several more years.

The funds will also go toward the installation of equipment to help automate the rerouting of power throughout the area's electricity distribution system during outages."

[gto250us]

Here is my new smart meter. I can now control everything.

[SaintCyr]

Have we heard anything on where they are starting with this or where they are currently working? This works with the google tracking software correct?

[musicman]

Have we heard anything on where they are starting with this or where they are currently working? This works with the google tracking software correct?

try this

[travelguy_73]

Have we heard anything on where they are starting with this or where they are currently working? This works with the google tracking software correct?

i have had mine since August, but haven't taken the time to get to know it. In some ways, I don't like it as much since it is more complex (rotating digital display, instead of the constant(ly turning) dial. I wish CenterPoint would send out a how-to-read guide, especially since I hit some sort of reset button and now I get a flashing 0000 part of the time. Apparently that doesn't stop the billing, though.

eta: nevermind, here is the guide

http://www.centerpointenergy.com/staticfiles/CNP/Common/SiteAssets/doc/How%20to%20Read%20Your%20Smart%20Meter%200060209.pdf

[jb4647]

I live a Condo off of Weslayan and 59 and we got the notice yesterday via a door hanger. The deployment schedule says that we should get them installed in December. I for one am excited because I think near real-time tracking of energy usage is the best way to get a handle on my electric bills. I got flammed on this board a couple of years ago for even suggesting such a radical notion.

It just makes sense to me. It doesn no good to get this info 30 days after the fact. I do this with my cell phone. I monitor how many mins I use several times a week. If I'm about to go over my mins, I curtail my usage.

http://www.centerpointenergy.com/services/electricity/residential/smartmeters/deployment/

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who already has had a smart meter installed and how they are using it to monitor their electricty usage.

[travelguy_73]

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who already has had a smart meter installed and how they are using it to monitor their electricty usage.

We haven't used it at all yet. I'm not sure that any of the energy marketers have integrated the smart meters into their websites, so I'm not sure how easy it is to follow usage just yet. Hope I am proven wrong, though!

[texas911]

They finally got to my house. I'm in 77005. It really did take all of 15 minutes to install.

[musicman]

to see how much electricity you’ve used in, for example, one week, write down this number at the beginning of the week then subtract it from the number displayed at the end of the week

from the pdf info, it's no different than it was previously. in the future you'll be able to do it from your computer. common sense is all it takes to save energy

[travelguy_73]

Caught this on the CNET Blog from the upcoming CES 2010:

Whirlpool, Direct Energy assemble home energy system

A group of companies at the Consumer Electronics Show plan to show off a networked home energy management system for reducing consumer energy bills.

The demonstration will include network-aware appliances from Whirlpool, a two-way thermostat from Lennox, and a touch-screen central control point made by OpenPeak.

Energy retailer Direct Energy plans to test out the combination with about 40 homes in the Houston area in an effort to entice consumers to use tools to ratchet down their home energy use. Best Buy's Geek Squad will do installation of the home network system.

Adjusting how appliances are run can save $30 to $50 per year per appliance, according to Warwick Stirling, Whirlpool's global director of energy and sustainability. Jobs can be programmed to run at night, or multiple heavy loads, such as charging an electric car and running a dishwasher, can be prioritized to take advantage of off-peak rates, he said.

Through the OpenPeak device, consumers can control appliances as well as heating and cooling. It will also display real-time energy use and act as central hub for a wireless home network.

Direct Energy plans to gather energy data and provide recommendations on how consumers can cut energy use, said David Dollihite, vice president of product development at the company.

"We don't want to give people technology to manage energy but try to integrate energy management into their existing lifestyle with things they actually enjoy doing," he said. For example, Direct Energy could recommend a thermostat change which a consumer could quickly act on without sacrificing overall comfort.

The company chose the Houston area in part because it has already begun a roll-out of smart meters which can communicate information from the meter into the home. But Dollihite and Stirling said that the system can use an Internet connection to gather energy information if a smart meter is not installed.

Once information is available on Direct Energy's servers, consumers can access the data from multiple points, such as a PC, TV, or smartphone.

Dollihite said it's still not clear what sorts of companies will emerge as providers of energy conservation services, which have had very limited uptake by consumers in the past. He predicted that service plans will evolve as cell phone plans have, where consumers have a choice between paying upfront for equipment or a monthly fee for ongoing energy conservation services.

"This is the beginning of an energy ecosystem, which we hope is an attractive platform for other market participants to build to with ancillary services," he said.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-31045_1-10425097-269.html?tag=mncol;txt

[jb4647]

They finally got to my house. I'm in 77005. It really did take all of 15 minutes to install.

I'm off of Weslayan & Drake and we havn't gotten ours yet. The deployment schedule said Oct-Dec 2009.

[jb4647]

They installed them today in our bldgings off of Weslayan & Drake in 77005. Here's a pic:

[drone]

In theory they should already support Zwave, which I believe uses zigbee networking - it's on my long to-do list to hack up a zigbee transceiver and see what it'll tell me. I don't expect to get to it until this summer, but if I find anything useful, I'll come back and post it here.

!c

[Arivechi]

ok, so we've had our SmartMeter for a couple months now. I recently signed up to view our usage information on-line. But it's a little disappointing that the data that you can view is not at all real-time. You can't view data more recent than 2 days old. Sure, it's great that I can see the 15-minute increments for last week or even the past weekend but I was under the impression that this SmartMeter was going to have more real-time data.

Yes, I am capable of going outside and reading the meter, but that's no different than with the old less-smart meters.

anyone know of plans to make the power usage data less delayed?

[jb4647]

anyone know of plans to make the power usage data less delayed?

This is what I'd like to know.

Of course I do like the weekly summary email they send me. Their estimate for my montly bill has been quite acurate.

[Subdude]

ok, so we've had our SmartMeter for a couple months now. I recently signed up to view our usage information on-line. But it's a little disappointing that the data that you can view is not at all real-time. You can't view data more recent than 2 days old. Sure, it's great that I can see the 15-minute increments for last week or even the past weekend but I was under the impression that this SmartMeter was going to have more real-time data.

Yes, I am capable of going outside and reading the meter, but that's no different than with the old less-smart meters.

anyone know of plans to make the power usage data less delayed?

Have you been able to use the information to reduce your electricity usage or electricity bill?

[jb4647]

Have you been able to use the information to reduce your electricity usage or electricity bill?

I certainly have. I've used it to monitor my peak usage and change my habits acordinly. Having access to to what my upcoming bill is going to be allows me to plan my budget better and cut back on my usage if I'm close to going over.

I see this as akin to being able to check how many cell mins I've used.

I've attached one of the recent emails from Reliant.

[innerlooper]

JB I am curious, looking at your chart, why do you have that spike in the morning, and then a big drop at lunch. The afternoon-evening spike is understandable.

Thanks

I certainly have. I've used it to monitor my peak usage and change my habits acordinly. Having access to to what my upcoming bill is going to be allows me to plan my budget better and cut back on my usage if I'm close to going over.

I see this as akin to being able to check how many cell mins I've used.

I've attached one of the recent emails from Reliant.