Hillcroft Renamed Mahatma Gandhi Avenue, Possibly

[lockmat]

HOUSTON (KTRK) -- A well-known street in Houston could soon have a new name. One group is working on a plan, hoping to change the street name Hillcroft.

The change would affect Hillcroft between Highway 59 and Westpark. While some Houstonians welcome the proposed change, others do not.

Lined with international shops and restaurants, Hillcroft is known for its vast diversity. Now the India Culture Center wants to rename Hillcroft as Mahatma Gandhi Street, to honor the late spiritual leader.

Khan says he will support changing Hillcroft's name to Mahatma Gandhi Avenue, if that's what the community wants.

the rest... http://abclocal.go.c...ocal&id=6913285

Edited July 14, 2009 by lockmat

[CDeb]

Store clerk Inder Buhtti believes Gandhi Avenue could curb crime and violence in the area.

He said, "Everything he wants he wanted in a peaceful way, not with guns or with bombs."

Yeah, because MLK streets are always so peaceful, according to Chris Rock.

[spiderroller]

Great. I can see the trend now.

We can rename South Braeswood between Gessner and 59 "Tupak Shakur Blvd.".

You get the picture. Here we go. Fill in the blanks:

We can rename Bellaire between Chimney Rock and Hillcroft: ________________.

Hell... we can probably rename every street west of Hillcroft in the entire city. Hillcroft has essentially become a "border" within our city. Okay to live East of Hillcroft; don't dare move West of it.

We can rename Bissonett between Chimney Rock and Gessner: ________________.

Oh man... just too many to rename.....

[sarahiki]

There's probably nobody I'd rather see a street named for than Gandhi. However, I think it would be confusing and disruptive to have part of a major artery have a different name. Nonetheless, it would be a pretty nice way to acknowledge the south Asian community in that area.

I will not be surprised if they are able to pull this off. The local Indian community can be very persistent, as I observed regarding something similar a few years ago. They are also pretty well-connected at City Hall and pretty savvy about getting stuff done.

[Fringe]

I'm sure it's only a matter of time before we will have a Michael Jackson street. 

[Highway6]

I know this isn't quite apples to apples... but on the flip side... if ethnic minorities want to rename streets in their area, would it be too un-pc to rename them back once/if they've been gentrified away?

e.g. eado's chinatown, vietnamese street signs in midtown. Only a matter of time till those are obsolete.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Highway6

[rsb320]

Doesn't Hillcroft already change to Voss and then Piney Point? I think it'd only make visitors confused.

On another note, why do many major Asian cities change their names?

Edit: It's Fondren that becomes Piney Point. Sorry.

Edited July 14, 2009 by rsb320

[Pumapayam]

I know this isn't quite apples to apples... but on the flip side... if ethnic minorities want to rename streets in their area, would it be too un-pc to rename them back once/if they've been gentrified away?

e.g. eado's chinatown, vietnamese street signs in midtown. Only a matter of time till those are obsolete.

So, the "street" with have even more names now.

SOUTH ► Hillcroft St ► US-59 ► Mahatma Gandhi St ► Westpark Dr ► Hillcroft St ► Westheimer Rd ► S. Voss/Voss Rd ► I-10 ► Bingle Rd ► W. Little York Rd ► NORTH

How messed up is that to have Hillcroft "sandwich" another street name on the same route.

Has this been done before?

The should just carry it all the way up to Westheimer then.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Pumapayam

[Highway6]

SOUTH ► Hillcroft St ► US-59 ► Mahatma Gandhi St ► Westpark Dr ► Hillcroft St ► Westheimer Rd ► S. Voss/Voss Rd ► I-10 ► Bingle Rd ► W. Little York Rd ► NORTH

► Bingle Rd ► W. Little York ► N. Houston Rossalyn ► 249 ► Bammel N. Houston ► 1960

..sorta

Edited July 14, 2009 by Highway6

[lockmat]

I'm surprised to see so many against the name change. I'm interested to hear the reasons.

[Highway6]

I'm surprised to see so many against the name change. I'm interested to hear the reasons.

I'm against renaming streets and freeways in general where it affects property addresses and promotes confusion. I'm also against segmented streets of the same name. Hillcroft as pointed out, is already schizophrenic enough. Our 15 Post Oak streets/blvds/lanes/N. S. are laughable.

I also think Nolan Ryan expressway and Milo Hamilton Way are both silly as well, but at least those are harmless in that they dont affect addresses and promote confusion, they can just be ignored.

If the above proposal were changed to just giving this segment of Hillcroft a secondary honorary name, I'd change my vote to "Dont care"

[Jeebus]

I know this isn't quite apples to apples... but on the flip side... if ethnic minorities want to rename streets in their area, would it be too un-pc to rename them back once/if they've been gentrified away?

e.g. eado's chinatown, vietnamese street signs in midtown. Only a matter of time till those are obsolete.

Funny you mention this. On the south end of Midtown, around Austin and Louisiana, I noticed NEW Vietnamese Midtown District signs.

As for renaming Hillcroft, don't. Instead, dedicate a portion of the road to Gandhi, and call it the Gandhi Memorial Corridor. The street remains Hillcroft, but gets a little namesake upgrade. Everyone wins.

[barracuda]

If the above proposal were changed to just giving this segment of Hillcroft a secondary honorary name, I'd change my vote to "Dont care"

If I were a business owner on that section of Hillcroft, I wouldn't relish having to update customers, vendors, service providers, advertisements, yellow pages, brochures, etc. On the other hand, Mahatma Gandhi Avenue would be one of the most recognizable street names due to it's uniqueness. So I guess I'm indifferent.

[spiderroller]

I'm surprised to see so many against the name change. I'm interested to hear the reasons.

Because it's just plain stupid and only leads to more stupidity.

Do we stop at streets? Parks? Landmarks? Why rename for people? Why not rename for culture or inhabitants?

How about "Crackhead Lane"? How about "Mo Fo Bitchin' Boulevard"? Now THAT I would go for.

Honoring a person that is revered by people who run businesses along a street by changing a street name is B.S. ESPECIALLY if that person had nothing to do with the city or neighborhood directly. Just a bunch of hogwash.

You may change our school mascots (B.S. as well) but stop changing our street names. Just put the name in Indian under the English name like the Chinese do in Chinatown.

I can just see 2/3 of the city's streets renamed for Mexican Food and Generals that fought under Santa Ana.

Perhaps one day... they'll change the name of the entire City...... based upon demographics. Hell with "Houston". Let's rename it "Guadalajara North".

[Pumapayam]

I'm surprised to see so many against the name change. I'm interested to hear the reasons.

I think the way they are already butchering a street is reason enough to vote no.

Had the proposal been, "change the entire segment" or at least not do something confusing like have Hillcroft on either end, I'd change my answer to don't care.

I understand why they want to rename it, but they need to rethink how much of the street is going to be renamed.

Why not just call the area Mahatma Gandhi District in his honor.

Funny you mention this. On the south end of Midtown, around Austin and Louisiana, I noticed NEW Vietnamese Midtown District signs.

As for renaming Hillcroft, don't. Instead, dedicate a portion of the road to Gandhi, and call it the Gandhi Memorial Corridor. The street remains Hillcroft, but gets a little namesake upgrade. Everyone wins.

That's a good solution.

[Highway6]

Why not just call the area Mahatma Gandhi District in his honor.

One man asked, "Why don't they change it to Chavez? Because there are a lot of Spanish businesses around here, too."

Spanish, Guatemalan, Chinese and Persian businesses in the area attract an array of customers. Azar Delpassand from Iran says the street's name should reflect that diversity.

She said, "In here, this street, you have Arabic stores, you have Indian stores, you have Persian stores. So excluding others because of Indians, I don't think (so). It's not fair."

We need a ethnic cage match to determine which ethnicity gets the honour of confusing Houstonians with their street name change.

[MarkLTD]

However, I think it would be confusing and disruptive to have part of a major artery have a different name.

As someone mentioned before, Hilcroft becomes Voss at Westheimer, then becomes Bingle at I-10, so what's one more name change?

Edited July 14, 2009 by MarkLTD

[Fringe]

However, I think it would be confusing and disruptive to have part of a major artery have a different name.

As someone mentioned before, Hilcroft becomes Voss at Westheimer, then becomes Bingle at I-10, so what's one more name change?

I remember about a year ago the post office changed my zip code and what a hassle that was. I doubt very seriously if all the business currently along Hillcroft really want to have to go through that change. 

[Pumapayam]

However, I think it would be confusing and disruptive to have part of a major artery have a different name.

As someone mentioned before, Hilcroft becomes Voss at Westheimer, then becomes Bingle at I-10, so what's one more name change?

They way they are approaching it is confusing.

Hillcroft will exist twice on two separate sections on the same street.

Likely, if they keep that plan, we'll see S. Hillcroft and N. Hillcroft.

[Subdude]

I always liked it that Houston has a lot of streets that change name periodically. Kirby > Allen Parkway > Dallas for instance. That said, Mahatma Gandhi Avenue sounds a bit clunky. Gandhi Street perhaps.

[rsb320]

Elgin/Westheimer/FM 1093

Echo Lane/Blalock/Fairbanks N. Houston

Studewood/Studemont/Montrose.

I'm fine with the name changes at major intersections, but don't like the idea about going from Hillcroft to Ghandi and then back to Hillcroft. The N-S thing might work, but would still be unecessarily confusing.

[Highway6]

Elgin/Westheimer/FM 1093

Echo Lane/Blalock/Fairbanks N. Houston

Studewood/Studemont/Montrose.

I'm fine with the name changes at major intersections, but don't like the idea about going from Hillcroft to Ghandi and then back to Hillcroft. The N-S thing might work, but would still be unecessarily confusing.

In situations like these, and Hilcroft/Voss/Bingle, though.... isn't the history of these streets more likely to have been they were originally not connected and separate streets that as the city grew, the streets merged? ... That a decision wasnt just made at some point.. "Hey, lets split this long street into 4 different names, or rename this stretch in honour of___". I don't know.. anyone know the history?

Seems pretty obvious that there was a Studewood Street and a Montrose street and one day the city grew enough to connect these streets so StudeMont was born.

Westheimer and Elgin.. obviously two different streets on different grids merged together.

[Pumapayam]

In situations like these, and Hilcroft/Voss/Bingle, though.... isn't the history of these streets more likely to have been they were originally not connected and separate streets that as the city grew, the streets merged? ... That a decision wasnt just made at some point.. "Hey, lets split this long street into 4 different names, or rename this stretch in honour of___". I don't know.. anyone know the history?

Seems pretty obvious that there was a Studewood Street and a Montrose street and one day the city grew enough to connect these streets so StudeMont was born.

Westheimer and Elgin.. obviously two different streets on different grids merged together.

Well I have always wondered how the same streets get different names. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle!

Edited July 14, 2009 by Pumapayam

[Highway6]

Anyone have Historic Houston Streets/The Stories Behind the Names by Marks Hinton? Maybe it can shed some light.

[ricco67]

I'm against this name change totally, particularly after the reasons they gave it.

While I'm not saying Ghandi wasn't a great person, but only naming it a SMALL section is total foolishness. Why not just name that section "The Ghandi District."

I'm sure the Pakistanis in the area will be thrilled to be associated with an Indians (dot, not feather.).

[sevfiv]

Anyone have Historic Houston Streets/The Stories Behind the Names by Marks Hinton? Maybe it can shed some light.

Yeah - I checked earlier and there isn't an entry...

[Highway6]

Yeah - I checked earlier and there isn't an entry...

I figured you'd have it. There's no explanation for why street names change or there's no entry period for Bingle, Voss, and Hilcroft ?

[ricco67]

I figured you'd have it. There's no explanation for why street names change or there's no entry period for Bingle, Voss, and Hilcroft ?

The last change of a major street that I (barely) remember was in 1981, when part of 69th was renamed to SSgt. Marcario Garcia. If it happened today, would I approve? Yes.

It's a relatively small street in Dedicated to a Medal of Honor Winner and has roots locally (Sugarland).

Ghandi?

Unless he has a major connection here, No.

[marmer]

Yeah, the Pakistani and Muslim issue was the first thing I thought of when I heard this. There are a lot of Pakistani businesses on Hillcroft, too.

[sevfiv]

The only entry is for Voss - "Records leads us to believe this thoroughfare is named for a landowner in the area named C.H. Voss."

The earliest map I could find was from 1952 which has, starting from the south in Fort Bend county:

Blue Ridge Rd. (prison) --> nothing --> Ave. F (Bellaire - I think this is the right alignment) --> nothing --> Voss --> nothing --> Bingel (sic)

the next map (1965) shows them connected and Bingle ending at Lang Rd., right before Pinemont. Bingle between Hempstead and W. Tidwell nowadays might be the 1965 part of Lang - Langfield is still just to the west...

1952:

1965:

[Highway6]

Nice work sevfiv

[Pumapayam]

The only entry is for Voss - "Records leads us to believe this thoroughfare is named for a landowner in the area named C.H. Voss."

The earliest map I could find was from 1952 which has, starting from the south in Fort Bend county:

Blue Ridge Rd. (prison) --> nothing --> Ave. F (Bellaire - I think this is the right alignment) --> nothing --> Voss --> nothing --> Bingel (sic)

the next map (1965) shows them connected and Bingle ending at Lang Rd., right before Pinemont. Bingle between Hempstead and W. Tidwell nowadays might be the 1965 part of Lang - Langfield is still just to the west...

1952:

1965:

That whole area around Woodway used to be a Country Club!

[JLWM8609]

I was in Chicago and I noticed that instead of doing full fledged street name changes, they'd put up a sign below the street sign and the sign would denote an honorary name change. This sign would only be placed at one intersection and not the whole corridor.

Here's Albertina Walker and The Caravans Drive, which as you can see is not an official name change, but honors the group. If you're wondering who they are, they're a gospel group that was founded in Chicago in 1949 and is still based in Chicago and tours worldwide some 60 years later.

Perhaps this would be sufficient instead of a full fledged name change? I know they've already done so here in town when they put up that street sign honoring Milo Hamilton.

Edited July 15, 2009 by JLWM8609

[JLWM8609]

► Bingle Rd ► W. Little York ► N. Houston Rossalyn ► 249 ► Bammel N. Houston ► 1960

..sorta

You forgot the Fort Bend Tollway. When Hillcroft intersects Fondren, the through lanes become an onramp onto the Tollway. It's not really a street, but for frontage road purposes near Highway 6, I guess that counts, right?

SOUTH ► Fort Bend Tollway ► Fondren Rd ► Hillcroft St ► US-59 ► Mahatma Gandhi St ► Westpark Dr ► Hillcroft St ► Westheimer Rd ► S. Voss/Voss Rd ► I-10 ► Bingle Rd ► W. Little York Rd ► N. Houston Rossalyn ► 249 ► Bammel N. Houston ► 1960

►NORTH

[sevfiv]

On the above maps I wasn't completely sure about Ave. F matching up to Hillcroft, but I found a block book map that confirms (it's also shared with Westward south of the split):

http://books.tax.hctx.net/v052/AE1997_Vol_52-53_0005.jpg

Also, here is an old Blue Ridge before the prison:

http://books.tax.hctx.net/v041/AE1997_41-3_0189.jpg

one that shows the not-quite-aligned Bingle/Voss:

http://books.tax.hctx.net/v044/AE1997_44-1_0108.jpg

and a few showing Bingle ending at W. Tidwell (Lang Rd. at one point) near Diehl, and the cut through at W Tidwell (Evergreen at one point):

http://books.tax.hctx.net/v043/AE1997_43_0031.jpg

http://books.tax.hctx.net/v043/AE1997_43_0033.jpg

http://books.tax.hctx.net/v030/AE1997_30_0191.jpg

[Dagnabbit]

The last change of a major street that I (barely) remember was in 1981, when part of 69th was renamed to SSgt. Marcario Garcia. If it happened today, would I approve? Yes.

It's a relatively small street in Dedicated to a Medal of Honor Winner and has roots locally (Sugarland).

Ghandi?

Unless he has a major connection here, No.

I believe your correct in that was the last time a road or streets name was changed.

However does anyone recall about a dozen years or so ago when some uptown galleria area businesses and forign cousels went before the Houston city council claiming to have area business owners consent to change a local street name to "Avenue of the Americas".The street name they wanted to change was "Post Oak Blvd".

Once the news broke on the local TV stations and the longtime residents and business owners got wind of it most for the first time, it was over for that name change.

The forign counsels did get their Avenue of the Americas, and it did require a name change. Chenevert in front of the Goerge R.Brown convention center is now Avenida de Las Americas.

[CDeb]

The only entry is for Voss - "Records leads us to believe this thoroughfare is named for a landowner in the area named C.H. Voss."

Where do you get those old Houston street maps, Sevfiv?

[Fringe]

I was in Chicago and I noticed that instead of doing full fledged street name changes, they'd put up a sign below the street sign and the sign would denote an honorary name change. This sign would only be placed at one intersection and not the whole corridor.

Here's Albertina Walker and The Caravans Drive, which as you can see is not an official name change, but honors the group. If you're wondering who they are, they're a gospel group that was founded in Chicago in 1949 and is still based in Chicago and tours worldwide some 60 years later.

Perhaps this would be sufficient instead of a full fledged name change? I know they've already done so here in town when they put up that street sign honoring Milo Hamilton.

Good idea. Or just put the Hillcroft name in Indian like they did Bellaire Boulevard further out in the Asian community. If we allow anyone to change the name of the street to corespond to their ethnicity then soon almost every street in Houston will have a Spanish name. 

[rsb320]

The last change of a major street that I (barely) remember was in 1981, when part of 69th was renamed to SSgt. Marcario Garcia. If it happened today, would I approve? Yes.

It's a relatively small street in Dedicated to a Medal of Honor Winner and has roots locally (Sugarland).

Ghandi?

Unless he has a major connection here, No.

Isn't/wasn't Mahatma Rice based here?

[sevfiv]

Where do you get those old Houston street maps, Sevfiv?

I try to collect, but mostly they are from libraries' or individuals' scanned maps that are posted online. A fellow HAIFer has a really good list of them here:

http://houstorian.wordpress.com/old-houston-maps/

[rsb320]

Interesting that Bissonnet was called Richmond and Richmond was called Alief Dr.

I love old maps. It looks like the southern portion of the West Loop was still under construction in '65.

[Highway6]

Interesting that Bissonnet was called Richmond and Richmond was called Alief Dr.

I love old maps. It looks like the southern portion of the West Loop was still under construction in '65.

Which map are ya lookin at... 1965 shows it was Westpark that used to be called Alief.

It is pretty neat though seeing all these points, former small towns or developments, and the different degrees to which they have survived. Spring and Cypress fared well, others are remembered as schools or school districts, and some, their only remaining legacy is half a street name.

N Houston - Rossalyn

Bammel - N Houston

Fairbanks - N Houston

Aldine Mail Route

Addickes - Satsuma

Addickes - Howell

Almeda - Genoa

Spring - Cypress

Humble - Westfield (1960)

[rsb320]

Which map are ya lookin at... 1965 shows it was Westpark that used to be called Alief.

It is pretty neat though seeing all these points, former small towns or developments, and the different degrees to which they have survived. Spring and Cypress fared well, others are remembered as schools or school districts, and some, their only remaining legacy is half a street name.

N Houston - Rossalyn

Bammel - N Houston

Fairbanks - N Houston

Aldine Mail Route

Addickes - Satsuma

Addickes - Howell

Almeda - Genoa

Spring - Cypress

Humble - Westfield (1960)

Pardon my grand faux pas. Actually, I think it was probably Harwin that runs along the railroad track (to Alief). It's hard to say now because the maps are so compressed; so many filler streets are in between now. Use Jeanetta and Dunvale as an example (no Fondren).

[VicMan]

Just put the name in Indian under the English name like the Chinese do in Chinatown.

India's national official languages are Hindi and English, and it has countless regional languages as well.

[rsb320]

That stretch is not exclusively Indian anyway. There's a whole gamut of ethnicities through there.

Doesn't Hillcroft bend through that stretch? We could call it the Curry Curve.

[TheNiche]

I don't like it. There's the public cost of a name change (in new signage), the business costs, confusion among locals and those using mapping software or navigational GPS devices, and the irony that such culturally-specific iconography would likely cause more friction among local subcultures than it would yield togetherness and cooperation.

If the owner of a particular retail center along Hillcroft wants the City or some partnership of philanthropic organizations to purchase a pad site and erect a large statue, or something to that effect, that'd be awesome. It'd be even more awesome if the statue were put up somewhere not so obvious. Ghandi's iconography is global in scope; Indians do not own him or his message, and if a giant statue of Ghandi ended up in Montrose, the East End, or Clear Lake, that would itself be very symbolic.

[CoolBuddy06]

I'm surprised to see so many against the name change. I'm interested to hear the reasons.

The length is just too short. What they want to achieve they can by upgrading everything at Hillcrof and Harwin intersection and naming the area "Mahatma Ghandi Center". Heck they can even name that entire corridor.

[CoolBuddy06]

I don't like it. There's the public cost of a name change (in new signage), the business costs, confusion among locals and those using mapping software or navigational GPS devices, and the irony that such culturally-specific iconography would likely cause more friction among local subcultures than it would yield togetherness and cooperation.

If the owner of a particular retail center along Hillcroft wants the City or some partnership of philanthropic organizations to purchase a pad site and erect a large statue, or something to that effect, that'd be awesome. It'd be even more awesome if the statue were put up somewhere not so obvious. Ghandi's iconography is global in scope; Indians do not own him or his message, and if a giant statue of Ghandi ended up in Montrose, the East End, or Clear Lake, that would itself be very symbolic.

Well said man.

[sheeats]

I vastly prefer John Lomax's idea, and eagerly await the unveiling of Dr. Ed Young Avenue and Marvin Zindler Boulevard:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2009/07/why_rename_hillcroft_only_once.php

[JLWM8609]

Since some people want Houston to be more like Atlanta, let's rename Hillcroft as Peachtree Drive instead, and start adding directional suffixes to our streets as they do in Atlanta. Imagine it, stuff like North MacGregor Way SE, North Braeswood Drive SW, West Hardy Drive NE and E 43rd Street NW.