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Mounted Patrol At Pride- What Happened?


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Lawsuit and News coverage. That's what I'd be demanding if that happened to my wife. Especially after this lame B.S. comment:

Police say the officers, and the horses, were just doing their job.

“They were using verbal commands and using whistles to get people out of the streets. People were pouring into the street,” said police spokeswoman Jodi Silva. “Everybody obeyed except this one person.”

The officer, P. Hernandez, and his horse, Kato, moved closer to Reimers to urge her onto the sidewalk, Silva said.

“Officer Hernandez was shouting at her and moving forward slowly on his horse,” Silva said. “He continued to tell her to move back (and then) Kato accidentally bumped into her.”

What a crock. HPD needs to realize that they are not NOPD and this is not Bourbon street. I guess their lame excuse is that because it was an animal that its not police brutality. The question has to be asked, do you think this woman would have been as injured had an officer confronted her, she refused to move and they arrested her? NO.

The Motorcycle Funneral patrol is just as bad. They violently cut you off in traffic, nearly causing a rear-end collision, then yell and scream at you because no matter how fast you stop - it wasn't fast enough.

THEY'RE DEAD - WHAT'S THE RUSH!?!?

Get a grip you power-hungry A-holes. :angry:

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I'll probably get piled on by everyone, but mounted patrols are the most effective crowd control measure. Perhaps the horse or its rider needs more training the horse indeed was spooked, but I am not jumping on the hysteria bandwagon just because it was a woman, a Montrose resident, and occurred at a gay rights parade. I have watched the HPD mounted patrol for decades, and they have been very effective and generally well trained.

Back to the over-wrought claims of police brutality.

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Having a police presence at any event this size is a must. Having them on horses at big outdoor events is necessary for them to see and be seen by those that might need them.

It sounds like an unfortunate accident.. and the family can be pissed all they want... but that doesnt change the fact that having a visible police presence at big events is a good thing and

I'd rather a horse knock a ladys teeth out than the absence of police lead to a drunken mob burning my car.

On another note.. i live but a few blocks of Westheimer and the entire day was quite festive and everyone seems like they had a lot of fun.. and I for one would like to thank the cops for the spledndid job and allowing me to wake up to having a car in one piece that wasn't vandalized by a drunken mob.

Its one thing to have a police presence, its another thing to do things the way HPD does - which is always over the top. I'm also pretty sure had it been your wife, family member, or friend, you wouldn't be so quick to say that they were "just doing their job."

You say you'd rather have a girl lose a few teeth rather than the absence of police. Why must it be one extreme to the next? I've been to quite a few parades (many of them being Mardi Gras) in my life in many cities and off hand can't remember there EVER being a mounted police force for crowd control. Why here and why now? Is the gay community that unruly in large numbers?

They're lucky that half-ton beast didn't crush her skull and kill her. I'm sure many here would just shrug it off as an accident to a trouble making rebel-rouser though.

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Its one thing to have a police presence, its another thing to do things the way HPD does - which is always over the top. I'm also pretty sure had it been your wife, family member, or friend, you wouldn't be so quick to say that they were "just doing their job."

You say you'd rather have a girl lose a few teeth rather than the absence of police. Why must it be one extreme to the next? I've been to quite a few parades (many of them being Mardi Gras) in my life in many cities and off hand can't remember there EVER being a mounted police force for crowd control. Why here and why now? Is the gay community that unruly in large numbers?

They're lucky that half-ton beast didn't crush her skull and kill her. I'm sure many here would just shrug it off as an accident to a trouble making rebel-rouser though.

Maybe if you weren't face down in the gutter, you might have seen them.

3311068660_ec23fdb697.jpg?v=0

Mounted patrol in that notoriously redneck town, New York City...

nyc-mounted-police.jpg

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Red, you're just playing Devil's Advocate. Had I posted harshly in favor of the actions of the police you'd be slamming those keyboard keys right now lecturing me on that girl's civil rights.

Not sure what the point of your pictures were, except to thinly veil the insinuation that you think I'm a lush. Your first picture implies that the crowd at the PRIDE parade is as unruly as the drunken fools on Bourbon Street, and in the second picture they're simply patrolling during the day, and not at a parade - so I'm not sure what the point of the picture was, except that mounted patrols do still exist in other parts of the country - which no one ever argued.

Also, I'm not sure why you had to bring "redneck" into the conversation either?

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as with most events with large crowds, it's better to be proactive rather than reactive.

I agree 100%. Understand I'm not knocking the police. I'm knocking some of their tactics. I wasn't there, so ultimately I would probably be a better cow and just continue to graze.

However, I want to know why this happened and I don't believe the HPD version of it. The girl got her face stomped in by a horse. That's not normal at all! I wonder if perhaps some photos of the area where this happened around the approximate time will surface on flickr? I just want to see how unruly the crowd was at the pride parade that HPD felt the need to send the mounted patrol down the edge of the street in the first place.

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I'll probably get piled on by everyone, but mounted patrols are the most effective crowd control measure. Perhaps the horse or its rider needs more training the horse indeed was spooked, but I am not jumping on the hysteria bandwagon just because it was a woman, a Montrose resident, and occurred at a gay rights parade. I have watched the HPD mounted patrol for decades, and they have been very effective and generally well trained.

Back to the over-wrought claims of police brutality.

I will agree with you 1000% on this one Red. I will help you hold up the dogpile. I have seen HPD horse patrol in action firsthand. They are very good at what they do. How come nobody ever wants to blame the idiot that doesn't listen to police ? If you are too drunk or too stupid to see a 1100lb beast of burden coming at you and get out of the way, then you deserve to get smacked by it.

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Red, you're just playing Devil's Advocate. Had I posted harshly in favor of the actions of the police you'd be slamming those keyboard keys right now lecturing me on that girl's civil rights.

Not sure what the point of your pictures were, except to thinly veil the insinuation that you think I'm a lush. Your first picture implies that the crowd at the PRIDE parade is as unruly as the drunken fools on Bourbon Street, and in the second picture they're simply patrolling during the day, and not at a parade - so I'm not sure what the point of the picture was, except that mounted patrols do still exist in other parts of the country - which no one ever argued.

Also, I'm not sure why you had to bring "redneck" into the conversation either?

Actually, I am simply a proponent of mounted patrols, and recognize the immense value of horses for crowd control. I had already read the article before it was posted here, and it sounded like an accident to me. The Mardi Gras pic and the suggestion that you are a lush was intentional, as anyone who has ever been to Mardi Gras knows that the mounted patrol comes out at the close of Mardi Gras every night to shoo away the revelers. It is standard procedure and hard to miss. The New York pic is in response to your insinuation that other cities do not have mounted patrols and that HPD has mounted patrols because they are 'always over the top'. In fact, virtually every city of any size has mounted patrols. Boston's is believed to be the oldest. Denver had theirs patrol the protests at the Democratic convention. San Francisco has a well known patrol, as does Dallas and Fort Worth.

Houston's mounted patrol is a fixture in Downtown and at every large function and parade. This is the first serious incident that I have heard of, suggesting that they are generally well trained. I encourage you to google mounted patrols and crowd control. You'll (apparently) be very surprised at how useful horses are in crowd control, as well as how common it is.

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I just want to see how unruly the crowd was at the pride parade that HPD felt the need to send the mounted patrol down the edge of the street in the first place.

police protection is always a good thing with large crowds whether they are unruly or not.

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Here's a really cool article about the Tampa-St. Pete Mounted Patrol training for Super Bowl Duty...also not normally unruly mobs.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/article827557.ece

Their mere presence can settle unruly crowds because mounted officers say the animals are calm, stoic police ambassadors who don't look as menacing as riot police. But they are more than community relations tools, officers quickly pointed out.

Horses cut through traffic jams, push more people aside than 18 men, give officers high vantages and keep law officers safe, because people are less likely to attack a mounted officer than one on foot.

"Size, intimidation, strength," Tampa police Officer Scott Rehbein said of the animals' advantages.

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I encourage you to google mounted patrols and crowd control. You'll (apparently) be very surprised at how useful horses are in crowd control, as well as how common it is.

I have no need to google anything. I am very aware of the history of the mounted patrol and its importance in helping control large crowds. Because of that, and personal experience on Bourbon street (not during Mardi Gras) I know first hand how aggressive those mounted officers can be and how hard they push their horses.

To say its never happened before does not automatically preclude them from fault either. But don't worry, I'm getting the vibe loud and clear from the forum tonight: "That ______ had it coming and got what she deserved."

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1) I pray for this woman's recovery

2) Stuff happens with crowds. Please ignore HPD's trample policy :P:P

3) Lower Westheimer looked like a bomb went off at 8AM today. What kind of pride is that?

a) Yeah, I know, E. Tinsley is about to be trashed in the name of Patreeism [no misspell].

I intend to rant in bullet points from hereon.

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I've met this woman and she didn't strike me as the drunk/oblivious type so i thought there must be more info on what happened-- this was on the EMCA yahoo as the chron article was being discussed--

I'm pretty angry about the whole thing. Being an eye witness, besides the sheer horror of what "K" went through, I have to say much of what the cops are quoted as saying in the paper is pure lies...

-the horses were NOT "moving slowly"

-they did NOT use whistles

-no one could hear the "verbal commands"

-there was no time to get out of the way

-people were NOT "pouring into the streets"

-K was the only one "not obeying" ??? The fact is, the horses are HUGE, and they came so quickly, and moved so irradically, no one had a chance to get out of the way. Several people were buffeted by the horses, and K is the one who happened to be knocked down and then under the horse.

-Once they knocked her down, the horses started moving in circles and backing up - classic "crowd control" maneuvers. That's why she got stomped over and over again.

-The officers didn't even know they had knocked down and trampled a human being until the crowd started yelling at them to STOP!

-Furthermore, at least one of the horses was already in an agitated state, as early as 9:00pm - his police officer told me so when I walked over and he wouldn't let me pet it.

-They're using carefully chosen words to cover for one another. IMO.

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I have no need to google anything. I am very aware of the history of the mounted patrol and its importance in helping control large crowds. Because of that, and personal experience on Bourbon street (not during Mardi Gras) I know first hand how aggressive those mounted officers can be and how hard they push their horses.

To say its never happened before does not automatically preclude them from fault either. But don't worry, I'm getting the vibe loud and clear from the forum tonight: "That ______ had it coming and got what she deserved."

Not from me you're not. I simply think it was an accident. Although, a few of the parade participants apparently asked for MORE police crowd control this year, due to rowdy and dangerous crowds last year. So, there does seem to be a difference of opinion on just how rowdy these crowds get, and whether the horses should be there.

As I understand it, there are crowd control barricades along the curbs, and parade watchers were to stay behind the barricades on the sidewalk. Anyone that was there care to confirm?

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I was at the parade, and although i didn't witness this incident, i did see the horse patrol and i can't say for all of them, but there was definitely an officer on a horse that I made this comment to my friends about "man that guy can't control that horse, i wouldn't be suprised if he accidentally trampled someone"

I have no idea if it was the same guy, i was infront of the gas station down near Dunlavy. Twice this officer rode by the crowd pushing them back and the horse actually touched people in the crowd. On one instance the horse randomly side stepped and at least two people fell over. My friends and I started yelling "HORSE" whenever the officer came up so everyone could all get out of his way as he was going fast, and didn't seem to be in good control (i'm no expert but i am familiar with horses). I'm probably wrong, but i swear the officer looked angry with us because we were preventing him from being able to push the crowd back??

I am definitely for horse patrol though. The horses would have been fine if they were several feet from the crowd and i think they'd still be effective. IF the situtation where this incident happened was like where i was, i'd say the incident was most likely lack of training.

hope the lady has a quick recovery.

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I have no idea if it was the same guy, i was infront of the gas station down near Dunlavy. Twice this officer rode by the crowd pushing them back and the horse actually touched people in the crowd. On one instance the horse randomly side stepped and at least two people fell over. My friends and I started yelling "HORSE" whenever the officer came up so everyone could all get out of his way as he was going fast, and didn't seem to be in good control (i'm no expert but i am familiar with horses). I'm probably wrong, but i swear the officer looked angry with us because we were preventing him from being able to push the crowd back??

Now you're just being paranoid. You know they ONLY pick only the horses that are genetically proven to NEVER get spooked, and officers with the patience of Shaolin monk to ride them.

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Now you're just being paranoid. You know they ONLY pick only the horses that are genetically proven to NEVER get spooked, and officers with the patience of Shaolin monk to ride them.

Jeebus is right -- it's exceedingly unusual for police horses to get spooked. They're trained to handle guns being fired next to their heads and not flinch. A properly trained police horse doesn't get spooked by guns, or fireworks, or cars, or a crowd.

That said, maybe it's possible this horse wasn't fully trained. I don't know. Neither does anyone else on HAIF.

Horses are very good for crowd control because they're huge and visible, they provide the officers with platforms from which to see, and they're essentially mobile barricades. Only the drunkest of persons will try to run under a horse.

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Only the drunkest of persons will try to run under a horse.

I've not mentioned this because I clearly was not there, but this has been my suspicion from the start. It is only a suspicion, but it seems a whole lot more plausible than the "the cops were angry because it was a gay pride parade", and the "he did it on purpose" suggestions that I've seen floated out there.

Hope the woman recovers from her injuries.

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It sounds like in the rush of sights and sounds, the woman wasn't aware of the officer on the horse. No fault of hers. However, the policeman was not aware that the woman was not aware of him. No fault of his.

Accidents happen, particularly in these types of situations. Let it go, folks, there's nothing to see here.

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I was there and let me tell you, the crowd was rambunctious, but not unruly. I feel this incident was an unfortunate accident, but should not be written off as the HPD statement does.

After, having enough of the parade, we needed to cross the street. I made eye contact with an officer on foot and motioned that we wanted to cross. As soon as the coast was clear, he gave me the signal. The third person in my group (of 3) was stopped by a mean lady cop, until the guy that helped me realized and permitted it.

When you have huge crowds and the darkness of night, accidents will happen and this one needs to be investigated.

If I remember correctly, abusive force was used by mounted patrol on protesters at the GOP convention at the Astrodome.

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I've met this woman and she didn't strike me as the drunk/oblivious type so i thought there must be more info on what happened-- this was on the EMCA yahoo as the chron article was being discussed--

I'm pretty angry about the whole thing. Being an eye witness, besides the sheer horror of what "K" went through, I have to say much of what the cops are quoted as saying in the paper is pure lies...

-the horses were NOT "moving slowly"

-they did NOT use whistles

-no one could hear the "verbal commands"

-there was no time to get out of the way

-people were NOT "pouring into the streets"

-K was the only one "not obeying" ??? The fact is, the horses are HUGE, and they came so quickly, and moved so irradically, no one had a chance to get out of the way. Several people were buffeted by the horses, and K is the one who happened to be knocked down and then under the horse.

-Once they knocked her down, the horses started moving in circles and backing up - classic "crowd control" maneuvers. That's why she got stomped over and over again.

-The officers didn't even know they had knocked down and trampled a human being until the crowd started yelling at them to STOP!

-Furthermore, at least one of the horses was already in an agitated state, as early as 9:00pm - his police officer told me so when I walked over and he wouldn't let me pet it.

-They're using carefully chosen words to cover for one another. IMO.

I was on the same side of the street, but on the other corner, I totally agree with the above account. The side walks were open for people to walk, there were no ropes or bariers, this lady was standing next to the curb, people would use the curb to set on, and went the floats came by they stood up, etc., pretty usual. These police men appeared on Horses, when Bill White was walking by, but they circled back around, and became alittle more agressive, by walking with the horses as close at they could to the curb, using the horses head to push people back.

I had my bike laying beside me, on sanford, the horses turned to go up Sanford and this one horse went sideways over the curb onto the grass, I grab by bike, the horse kick its back legs and landing right where my bike was just seconds before. One by stander called 911, and reported that the Police on horse back needed to leave, because of their behavior. He yelled at the Police they told him to be quiet, he didn't, but he was moving away from them as he yelled, he told the Police he called 911 on them.

The first ambulance that appeared to help this woman, was part of the parade, they soomed off to get another ambulance with a crew.

After the lady was taken away, these Police on Horses, started to go back out onto the street, from Sanford to Westheimer, same deal, no one could hear them, this time the Police are pushing from behind, saying move., This one man had a young child on his shoulders, he was a little out on the street, he was lucky someone grab him as the horse, was breathing down his neck from behind, but he never saw or heard the Police, because they used no whiltles, only there voices, they blended into the noise.

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i was on the other side of KATZ at crocker-- i can vouch that no whistles were used--just yelling but everyone was yelling so it all just blended in-- the lady that spoke on TV was also who i quoted previously-- i saw her interviewing and noticed the TV didn't use the part where she describes how the horses were agitated before the parade started and how K was knocked down-- she didn't fall and none of the officers asked if K was all right----i understand time constraints of TV but thought that info was important to the story.

that's the strange part-the mounted patrol not acting upon the lady's injury-i think some civilian called 911 not the police

I guess i'm wondering why the police didn't pull the "agitated" horse off the line and not continue to to use it for crowd control--and why the mounted police didn't walkie-talkie over a foot policeman to see about K

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I didn't see this particular incident, but I've seen many cops-on-horses "crowd control" situations and whether or not it's standard operating procedure it really does seem to consist entirely of horses bouncing into crowds like pinballs in a pinball machine.

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I wasn't anywhere near where this happened, but I do know one thing was VERY weird.

There were barricades lining Westheimer before the parade. Our group walked from that terrible strip mall at the corner of Montrose @ Westheimer to Poison Girl and there were barricades all along the route. However, when the parade started and we left Poison Girl to hit the sidewalk, all of the barricades were gone where we were standing. I thought that was very strange. Can anyone else comment on that? Do they pick up the barricades BEFORE the parade starts?

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