TMC Fork In The Road With Affordable Care Act (Obamacare)

[Marksmu]

Watched the "debate" last night...Ill start it off saying it was a total joke. Obama was left almost completely unchallenged. The allegedly serious questions people actually wanted answers to he was allowed to dodge without the "moderator" (comrade) even bringing him back to topic.

Over and over again he would say lets think about it more broadly...even went so far as to come out right and say that elderly will not be cared for anymore as they would if they were receiving private care...but hey they lived their life already, so I guess we dont need to care for them anymore.

I for one am amazed that anyone could back this program...The health care industry needs to be brought back to reality, but this certainly is not the way to go.

He talked about "Waste" care - the numerous tests that are performed that the doctors dont need to perform simply because they want to bill for it. Thats all a load of bull - The democrats are ANTI TORT REFORM - the doctors run the tests that they know they dont need to run, and drive the cost of the care way up, because if they do not, and something was missed, the lawyers come tear the door down....But the Democrats wont stop the lawyers - its all a way of nationalizing and gaining control.

I bet, and I have not seen a single page from the Obama care plan, but I bet - that the doctors operating under Obama care will be immune from prosecution when they dont perform the all of the tests...while doctors operating on private plans (while they last) will not be.

People we need to wake up - you cannot keep taking things away from people, taxing those who do not choose to participate, and replacing what was previously private with national programs. The government is not efficent or good at anything it does - this is a huge mistake. This medical joke and cap and trade will bankrupt the country - and these stupid sheep for Democrats in office are cramming this all through and they even intend to VOTE on it WITHOUT ever reading it.

Finally, I ask anyone if they honestly thought that the program did not appear VERY one sided and scripted...what a joke. The DNC should have to pay for that entire 75 minute program out of their coffers.

[UrbaNerd]

I'm from the government, and I'm here to help YOU!

[Fringe]

Missed it. Did he happen to mention Soylent Green by any chance?

[Marksmu]

Missed it. Did he happen to mention Soylent Green by any chance?

Not yet - but nothing would surprise me anymore.

[lockmat]

is there a video of it somewhere?

[Marksmu]

is there a video of it somewhere?

You can watch the whole thing here...might want to have a few drinks first though...

http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id...,%20resizable=1

[TJones]

Did Obama ever answer the question of whether he would "enroll his own daughters" into this healthcare reform ?

[lockmat]

HBJ poses this question:

Congress is considering imposing new federal taxes on soda and other sugary drinks to help pay for an overhaul of the nation's health care system. Would you support a soda tax?

Why don't they just tax all things with high fructose corn syrup?

[20thStDad]

HBJ poses this question:

Congress is considering imposing new federal taxes on soda and other sugary drinks to help pay for an overhaul of the nation's health care system. Would you support a soda tax?

Why don't they just tax all things with high fructose corn syrup?

That might just facilitate a switch back to real sugar. I'm for it, whatever. Cane rocks!

[RedScare]

People we need to wake up - you cannot keep taking things away from people, taxing those who do not choose to participate, and replacing what was previously private with national programs. The government is not efficent or good at anything it does - this is a huge mistake. This medical joke and cap and trade will bankrupt the country - and these stupid sheep for Democrats in office are cramming this all through and they even intend to VOTE on it WITHOUT ever reading it.

I agree that the government is not efficient or good at anything it does...when the people running that government are intent on destroying it. Your rants and tirades fall on deaf ears when the governed are living through the rubble of institutions that were plundered by advocates of your version of 'less government'. You had a 30 year run. It ended with the worst recession since the Depression. People are ready for something else. When your only solution is to go back to the policies that got us in this mess, you are pissing in the wind. You simply cannot advocate for returning to what caused the train wreck and maintain any semblance of credibility.

But, then again, I don't think you are concerned about sounding credible anyway.

[TJones]

I am all FOR an imposed higher tax on all foods over a certain amount of calories on a PER SERVING basis. Overweight folks are the third leading cause for rising insurance rates right behind smoking and drinking. We tax the crap out of Alcohol and Tobacco, why don't we tax the crap out of Hostess Twinkies and Mountain Dew ?

Edited June 26, 2009 by TJones

[TheNiche]

I agree that the government is not efficient or good at anything it does...when the people running that government are intent on destroying it. Your rants and tirades fall on deaf ears when the governed are living through the rubble of institutions that were plundered by advocates of your version of 'less government'. You had a 30 year run. It ended with the worst recession since the Depression. People are ready for something else. When your only solution is to go back to the policies that got us in this mess, you are pissing in the wind. You simply cannot advocate for returning to what caused the train wreck and maintain any semblance of credibility.

But, then again, I don't think you are concerned about sounding credible anyway.

Like it or not, greed and the freedom to pursue it is the mechanism that lifted us up from the stone age and that has ultimately freed us from famine and allowed us the luxury of defining poverty in such a modern and superficial way.

Greed is fraught with economic volatility. There's certainly no escaping the business cycle. The alternative is devastatingly worse, however.

[RedScare]

Like it or not, greed and the freedom to pursue it is the mechanism that lifted us up from the stone age and that has ultimately freed us from famine and allowed us the luxury of defining poverty in such a modern and superficial way.

Greed is fraught with economic volatility. There's certainly no escaping the business cycle. The alternative is devastatingly worse, however.

True, but unregulated greed enriches a very few at the expense of the many. Advanced societies recognize this fact, and have enacted laws to limit the exercise of unregulated greed. Theft, fraud, forgery and numerous other economic crimes have been outlawed. The last 30 years has seen many former crimes legalized under the theory that "businessmen" will regulate themselves. While most do, not all do. The 2008 elections and continuing polls of American citizens show that most Americans wish to reign in the most egregious violators.

This is not an all or nothing proposition. Some regulation is necessary to encourage those without conscience to conform their behavior to societal norms. Certainly, not all will agree with those regulations. However, the blame for those increased regulations is misplaced. It should not be placed on the citizens who tired of being fleeced by thieves in suits. The blame goes to the thieves in suits for taking advantage of the unregulated markets to enrich themselves unfairly at the expense of others. I have little sympathy for those who cry about the new regulations. They brought it upon themselves. Honest businessmen are still allowed to make a buck.

As they say, you made that bed. Lie in it.

[UrbaNerd]

As they say, you made that bed. Lie in it.

Sadly, the "thieves in suits" often make their beds with the politicians, which enables them to fleece the populace even more!

[TheNiche]

True, but unregulated greed enriches a very few at the expense of the many. Advanced societies recognize this fact, and have enacted laws to limit the exercise of unregulated greed. Theft, fraud, forgery and numerous other economic crimes have been outlawed. The last 30 years has seen many former crimes legalized under the theory that "businessmen" will regulate themselves. While most do, not all do. The 2008 elections and continuing polls of American citizens show that most Americans wish to reign in the most egregious violators.

This is not an all or nothing proposition. Some regulation is necessary to encourage those without conscience to conform their behavior to societal norms. Certainly, not all will agree with those regulations. However, the blame for those increased regulations is misplaced. It should not be placed on the citizens who tired of being fleeced by thieves in suits. The blame goes to the thieves in suits for taking advantage of the unregulated markets to enrich themselves unfairly at the expense of others. I have little sympathy for those who cry about the new regulations. They brought it upon themselves. Honest businessmen are still allowed to make a buck.

As they say, you made that bed. Lie in it.

I would not disagree with the notion that there needs to be thoughtful, intellectually honest, and carefully constructed regulation. However, the post to which I was initially responding sounded like the tirade of a communist revolutionary. Somebody needed to prod you into at least admitting that greed is good.

Ironically, though, the nature of our representative democracy has resulted in a one-party government with an exceptionally weak and confused minority, and I suspect that the situation will probably result in a knee-jerk regulatory changes that are not as thoughtful, intellectually honest, or carefully constructed as they ought to be.

Also, this post has a lot of overtones based in baseless morality and appeals to popularity. How about we drop the rhetoric and just be intellectually honest? That goes for the other guys on here, too, but at least they're making an attempt to stay on topic.

[Marksmu]

I agree that the government is not efficient or good at anything it does...when the people running that government are intent on destroying it. Your rants and tirades fall on deaf ears when the governed are living through the rubble of institutions that were plundered by advocates of your version of 'less government'. You had a 30 year run. It ended with the worst recession since the Depression. People are ready for something else. When your only solution is to go back to the policies that got us in this mess, you are pissing in the wind. You simply cannot advocate for returning to what caused the train wreck and maintain any semblance of credibility.

But, then again, I don't think you are concerned about sounding credible anyway.

Your sob story sure sounds like the republicans ruined everything, but wait...the housing crisis which plunged us into this mess in the first place was caused by DEMOCRATS - NOT republicans...it was the Democrats and the Black Caucasus which lobbied Bill Clinton NOT BUSH into forcing, NOT ALLOWING, forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to write bad loans...100% of which every single person writing them knew they could not pay off....That was not some get rich scheme by the Republicans, it was done in the name of Fairness, happiness, inclusiveness....instead of common sense, JUST EXACTLY like this health care bill AND the cap and trade bill. (cite - http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business...ton&st=cse) (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/)

Were there republicans getting rich on these notes - yup - were the democrats getting rich on these as well - Yup - but none of the banks would have done these, if they had not been forced by the government and then guaranteed that if they failed they would be taken care of.

It may have been a bunch of wall street fancy pants who magically turned D paper into A paper with credit default swaps and made up insurance policies, but as has been so proudly pointed out by liberal after liberal - the educated voted for Obama, more than for McCain - so its not a huge leap here to say alot of those insurance company employees and Wallstreet bankers who got us into this mess voted Obama - since you have to be pretty educated to get away with stealing that mush cash from the people.

It was not 30 years of republican rule that got us into this situation, and if you think for one minute that taxing the people who are actually productive in this country is going to magically turn this country around...that by taking their money and giving it to others who are not working, or who need free health care...that it will solve the problems in this country you are certifiably insane.

Health care is not a right. Its a privilege, one that comes from WORK. People in this country are so spoiled though they think they deserve everything for free....Most of these "poor" people who do not have health care because they cant "afford" it - can magically afford - new clothes, a Car, a cell phone, and cable tv....its not a matter of being poor, its priorities, its a matter of knowing what others are going to give you for FREE. They know that if they goto the hospital to get treated, they will get treated....but if they call up time warner and say Im poor - hook me up with free cable, they will get hung up on...if they dont pay their cell phone bill it gets cut off.

Its a matter of priorities, and a sense of being owed - and here everybody is starting to think everybody else who has more, owes them something - and the Democrats, got elected on that stance - all Obama did was promise freeby, after freeby, after freeby - and every problem in this country is b/c the rich are fleecing the poor. Its sick - its untrue - and its being propogated by the media which the people blindly believe.

And I never propogated more of the same course - I want controls, but its not the controls you want, its not a socialist take from the working people mandate. Tort reform on medical malpractice would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Cap a recovery for a doctor who missed something because he didnt do 1000 unncessary tests - its what you will be getting in government controlled health care anyway, except that the option for more will still exist if you want it in private medicine. Doctors, are hog tied - they know whats wrong usually, but they have to test for all the things it also COULD BE, becuase if they misdiagnose, every dang person thinks they just hit the lottery and calls up a lawyer.

There are so many things that can be done to solve the problems, except that the different groups, who stand to PROFIT from the action or inacation, are aligned on opposite sides of the aisle...Its getting us nowhere - we need to reintroduce commone sense back to the people - it seems we left it behind long ago.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Marksmu

[august948]

Why don't they just tax all things with high fructose corn syrup?

Two words...corn lobby.

[lockmat]

According to the Greater Houston Partnership, it's on it's way to being bigger than downtown Dallas. But what if Obama's healthcare plan gets through? What will the future of TMC be? What are some of you in the industry thinking?

Aug. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Houston, the fourth-largest U.S. city, has been buoyed by construction in the Texas Medical Center, an area with 3,000 job openings that is likely to become larger than Dallas’s downtown, said Jeff Moseley, chief executive officer of the Greater Houston Partnership.

http://www.bloomberg...id=apwN0oE_bLS0

Edited August 23, 2009 by lockmat

[barracuda]

But what if Obama's healthcare plan gets through? What will the future of TMC be?

http://www.bloomberg...id=apwN0oE_bLS0

Wouldn't more people having access to health insurance benefit the TMC?

[editor]

I don't think any political policy will affect the TMC. The basic facts are that there are more people today than yesterday, and that all people will eventually require health care services. Who pays for the service will mostly affect the accounting department.

[sunsets]

Exactly. We already treat tons of people without health insurance, and the hospitals have to eat the cost. One of our bigwigs says it's all going to go single-payer eventually, but we'll see.

Reform isn't going to stop patients from needing hospitals, nor is it going to grind research to a halt.

[RedScare]

Health care is not a right. Its a privilege, one that comes from WORK. People in this country are so spoiled though they think they deserve everything for free....Most of these "poor" people who do not have health care because they cant "afford" it - can magically afford - new clothes, a Car, a cell phone, and cable tv....its not a matter of being poor, its priorities, its a matter of knowing what others are going to give you for FREE. They know that if they goto the hospital to get treated, they will get treated....but if they call up time warner and say Im poor - hook me up with free cable, they will get hung up on...if they dont pay their cell phone bill it gets cut off.

Its a matter of priorities, and a sense of being owed - and here everybody is starting to think everybody else who has more, owes them something - and the Democrats, got elected on that stance - all Obama did was promise freeby, after freeby, after freeby - and every problem in this country is b/c the rich are fleecing the poor. Its sick - its untrue - and its being propogated by the media which the people blindly believe.

And I never propogated more of the same course - I want controls, but its not the controls you want, its not a socialist take from the working people mandate. Tort reform on medical malpractice would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Cap a recovery for a doctor who missed something because he didnt do 1000 unncessary tests - its what you will be getting in government controlled health care anyway, except that the option for more will still exist if you want it in private medicine. Doctors, are hog tied - they know whats wrong usually, but they have to test for all the things it also COULD BE, becuase if they misdiagnose, every dang person thinks they just hit the lottery and calls up a lawyer.

GOP tells Marksmu to stick it.

With hundreds, even thousands, of conservative protesters screaming at town halls for the government to get out of the healthcare business, here comes the GOP promising seniors that they will do everything in their power to ensure that Medicare collapses under its own weight. The party that claims to stand for fiscal restraint has issued a manifesto vowing to oppose any measures intended to reign in wasteful spending in the Medicare program. Presumably, this includes free motorized scooters to people that do not need them, expensive invasive surgery where a non-invasive procedure will do, and, of course, protecting President Bush's giveaway to the drug companies back in 2003.

Let's see how many true fiscal conservatives we have reading HAIF. Register your opposition...or support...of wasteful Medicare spending here.

[Fringe]

I oppose wasteful Medicare spending. Now where do I get my motorized scooter? I'm tired of walking. 

[barracuda]

GOP tells Marksmu to stick it.

With hundreds, even thousands, of conservative protesters screaming at town halls for the government to get out of the healthcare business, here comes the GOP promising seniors that they will do everything in their power to ensure that Medicare collapses under its own weight. The party that claims to stand for fiscal restraint has issued a manifesto vowing to oppose any measures intended to reign in wasteful spending in the Medicare program. Presumably, this includes free motorized scooters to people that do not need them, expensive invasive surgery where a non-invasive procedure will do, and, of course, protecting President Bush's giveaway to the drug companies back in 2003.

Let's see how many true fiscal conservatives we have reading HAIF. Register your opposition...or support...of wasteful Medicare spending here.

Perhaps it's because they know Medicare is incredibly popular and successful with those covered by the program.

[barracuda]

Your sob story sure sounds like the republicans ruined everything, but wait...the housing crisis which plunged us into this mess in the first place was caused by DEMOCRATS - NOT republicans...it was the Democrats and the Black Caucasus which lobbied Bill Clinton NOT BUSH into forcing, NOT ALLOWING, forcing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to write bad loans...100% of which every single person writing them knew they could not pay off....That was not some get rich scheme by the Republicans, it was done in the name of Fairness, happiness, inclusiveness....instead of common sense, JUST EXACTLY like this health care bill AND the cap and trade bill. (cite - http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business...ton&st=cse) (http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/)

Didn't the Republicans control the House and Senate for most of Clinton's Presidency?

Were there republicans getting rich on these notes - yup - were the democrats getting rich on these as well - Yup - but none of the banks would have done these, if they had not been forced by the government and then guaranteed that if they failed they would be taken care of.

It may have been a bunch of wall street fancy pants who magically turned D paper into A paper with credit default swaps and made up insurance policies, but as has been so proudly pointed out by liberal after liberal - the educated voted for Obama, more than for McCain - so its not a huge leap here to say alot of those insurance company employees and Wallstreet bankers who got us into this mess voted Obama - since you have to be pretty educated to get away with stealing that mush cash from the people.

It was not 30 years of republican rule that got us into this situation, and if you think for one minute that taxing the people who are actually productive in this country is going to magically turn this country around...that by taking their money and giving it to others who are not working, or who need free health care...that it will solve the problems in this country you are certifiably insane.

Health care is not a right. Its a privilege, one that comes from WORK. People in this country are so spoiled though they think they deserve everything for free....Most of these "poor" people who do not have health care because they cant "afford" it - can magically afford - new clothes, a Car, a cell phone, and cable tv....its not a matter of being poor, its priorities, its a matter of knowing what others are going to give you for FREE. They know that if they goto the hospital to get treated, they will get treated....but if they call up time warner and say Im poor - hook me up with free cable, they will get hung up on...if they dont pay their cell phone bill it gets cut off.

You're so right, the poor have it so great in this country. Wow, what it must be like...

And you're right, healthcare is a privilege in America. Health insurance companies put their own bottom line and their shareholders rights above the lives of human beings by denying treatments or canceling policies when a customer faces expensive medical care. What a privilege it is.

Its a matter of priorities, and a sense of being owed - and here everybody is starting to think everybody else who has more, owes them something - and the Democrats, got elected on that stance - all Obama did was promise freeby, after freeby, after freeby - and every problem in this country is b/c the rich are fleecing the poor. Its sick - its untrue - and its being propogated by the media which the people blindly believe.

And I never propogated more of the same course - I want controls, but its not the controls you want, its not a socialist take from the working people mandate. Tort reform on medical malpractice would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Cap a recovery for a doctor who missed something because he didnt do 1000 unncessary tests - its what you will be getting in government controlled health care anyway, except that the option for more will still exist if you want it in private medicine. Doctors, are hog tied - they know whats wrong usually, but they have to test for all the things it also COULD BE, becuase if they misdiagnose, every dang person thinks they just hit the lottery and calls up a lawyer.

There are so many things that can be done to solve the problems, except that the different groups, who stand to PROFIT from the action or inacation, are aligned on opposite sides of the aisle...Its getting us nowhere - we need to reintroduce commone sense back to the people - it seems we left it behind long ago.

I would support tort reform on medical malpractice and some caps, but that is just one of many issues.

[gto250us]

Upon what planet do you spend most of your time? Geez - arguing with you is like arguing with a dining room table. I am just not going to do it.

Edited August 25, 2009 by gto250us

[TheNiche]

I don't think any political policy will affect the TMC. The basic facts are that there are more people today than yesterday, and that all people will eventually require health care services. Who pays for the service will mostly affect the accounting department.

Healthcare is often thought of as having inelastic demand schedules, meaning that the price can vary without greatly affecting the quantity of care demanded. For many kinds of healthcare, that is true. If you're running a 107-degree fever, you need to go to the ER, and it really doesn't matter what the cost is or who is paying for it. That's a potentially life-or-death situation. But many procedures are basically luxuries and are considerably more price elastic. The quantity of healthcare services for price elastic procedures will vary greatly depending upon what is or is not covered by government or insurance. I cannot predict what the ultimate outcome will be, however I can assure you that any attempt to bring about an increased amount of patient care while simultaneously lowering the cost of care as it is experienced by both the government and the private sector is not possible. Supply and demand dynamics within the labor markets rule out this possibility.

The bean counters certainly will be affected by changes in policy, however you count on that the number of beans in the pot will affect capital budgeting.

[sunsets]

The other big player in this scenario is NIH funding. If that stays as pathetically low as it is right now, I would expect to see a slowdown in new buildings and research labs in the TMC. Heck, lots of labs are sitting empty right now because no one has the funding to hire people to work in them.

[CoolBuddy06]

Healthcare is often thought of as having inelastic demand schedules, meaning that the price can vary without greatly affecting the quantity of care demanded. For many kinds of healthcare, that is true. If you're running a 107-degree fever, you need to go to the ER, and it really doesn't matter what the cost is or who is paying for it. That's a potentially life-or-death situation. But many procedures are basically luxuries and are considerably more price elastic. The quantity of healthcare services for price elastic procedures will vary greatly depending upon what is or is not covered by government or insurance. I cannot predict what the ultimate outcome will be, however I can assure you that any attempt to bring about an increased amount of patient care while simultaneously lowering the cost of care as it is experienced by both the government and the private sector is not possible. Supply and demand dynamics within the labor markets rule out this possibility.

The bean counters certainly will be affected by changes in policy, however you count on that the number of beans in the pot will affect capital budgeting.

Obviously, you're not in healthcare. Although it doesn't discount your point, next time just use 103 as an example. 107 is more like a death situation.

[TheNiche]

Obviously, you're not in healthcare. Although it doesn't discount your point, next time just use 103 as an example. 107 is more like a death situation.

103 is not an ER situation. Been there, done that. I've been at 106 twice, yet only when I was vomiting bile did I bother with the ER. The other time it was a flu or something similar, and I filled the bathtub with cold water, emptied all my ice trays into it, and sat in it until a relative, who is a health practicioner, could arrive from out of town to ensure my survival. I probably saved a couple thousand dollars by doing that...proving my point, that the demand for healthcare is price elastic.