Jrnavid Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 METRO has a lot of good things that it does, and also its shares of bad. I think that another transportation agency being brought in as a "competitor" of METRO should be placed and show METRO how they should work. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I agree that reforms are needed, however I'd be much more happy with more direct accountability to the citizenry within its service area than is presently the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 METRO probably has exclusivity worked into the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 METRO probably has exclusivity worked into the deal. In Los Angeles, for example, they not only have their Metro but they also have the LADOT, Martha, Dash, and Big Blue, and Foothill Transit Buses. Theyre all seperate agencies from eachother and they all run in the same service area in Los Angeles County and surrounding areas. Here, we only have Metro.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog08 Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 In Los Angeles, for example, they not only have their Metro but they also have the LADOT, Martha, Dash, and Big Blue, and Foothill Transit Buses. Theyre all seperate agencies from eachother and they all run in the same service area in Los Angeles County and surrounding areas. Here, we only have Metro.... And LA has about +17 million in its region and is composed of distinct areas (inland empire vs LA). I just think we need a transit agency the covers the Houston metro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 27, 2009 Author Share Posted May 27, 2009 And LA has about +17 million in its region and is composed of distinct areas (inland empire vs LA). I just think we need a transit agency the covers the Houston metro.Metro should also extend its service area to the entire Houston Metro, not only Harris County, but all counties surrounding Harris. A lot of people commute into the actual Houston central areas and Metro is not helping. The new rails only go out to the 610 loop!! What help does that give?? They should extend to the beltway and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Timmy Chan's Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Metro should also extend its service area to the entire Houston Metro, not only Harris County, but all counties surrounding Harris. A lot of people commute into the actual Houston central areas and Metro is not helping. The new rails only go out to the 610 loop!! What help does that give?? They should extend to the beltway and beyond.Jrnavid, not picking on you in particular, but I get tired of hearing about the light rail only being built inside the loop.Don't forget, it's only taken about 60 years to get multi-lane limited access freeways out to the current suburbs. Don't expect rail to get there much faster...especially considering the number (and political ranking) of enemies of rail.Also...given METRO's track record, do you REALLY want to give them any more power?I'd be happy to give the job of building rail to HCTRA...they seem to know how to actually build things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Metro should also extend its service area to the entire Houston Metro, not only Harris County, but all counties surrounding Harris. A lot of people commute into the actual Houston central areas and Metro is not helping. The new rails only go out to the 610 loop!! What help does that give?? They should extend to the beltway and beyond.Why are you blaming METRO? Those areas have not voted to be included in METRO's service area and be taxed by METRO for the services provided. Blame the residents who didn't vote in, not METRO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Jrnavid, not picking on you in particular, but I get tired of hearing about the light rail only being built inside the loop.Don't forget, it's only taken about 60 years to get multi-lane limited access freeways out to the current suburbs. Don't expect rail to get there much faster...especially considering the number (and political ranking) of enemies of rail.Also...given METRO's track record, do you REALLY want to give them any more power?I'd be happy to give the job of building rail to HCTRA...they seem to know how to actually build things.I know that its taken long, but look at the mess LA was before mass transit expansion really kicked in. Now, LA has two subway lines and four light rail lines, and they were just like we were. They're bus system, however, is very superior to ours. They have many different lines, including BRT. I actually think we dont need separate agencies but for our Metro to learn from other cities. If they do things adequately, Metro will know how to manage light rails much better. I hopw Phases II and III extend beyond the loop and even the beltway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Why are you blaming METRO? Those areas have not voted to be included in METRO's service area and be taxed by METRO for the services provided. Blame the residents who didn't vote in, not METRO.By Metro not helping i meant that they should have at least added an extra 10 miles to each line theyre building. What good does an 8 mile line do? Its not commuting anywhere. But I know about voters not allowing anything to happen. This transit agency is at least 20 years behind and this city is growing at a phenomenal rate. I dont agree with the East End and the other Green line that run almost into the exact same area of town. I really dont understand the reasoning behind the Brown and Green lines' planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 By Metro not helping i meant that they should have at least added an extra 10 miles to each line theyre building. What good does an 8 mile line do? Its not commuting anywhere. But I know about voters not allowing anything to happen. This transit agency is at least 20 years behind and this city is growing at a phenomenal rate. I dont agree with the East End and the other Green line that run almost into the exact same area of town. I really dont understand the reasoning behind the Brown and Green lines' planning.I see. And you would pay for this extra 40 miles of rail construction how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 I see. And you would pay for this extra 40 miles of rail construction how?yes it might cost of course, but you have to think about the future, 20 years ahead and how the problem will get worse and worse if nothing is dont quickly. Money is not the most important factor behind the motives of a project sometimes, but more about the impact and good it will do towards a city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 yes it might cost of course, but you have to think about the future, 20 years ahead and how the problem will get worse and worse if nothing is dont quickly. Money is not the most important factor behind the motives of a project sometimes, but more about the impact and good it will do towards a city.I realize that this is an internet forum, and no one is tasked with the responsibility of funding these projects, but do you have any idea whatsoever how much that 40 miles of light rail would cost? How about the light rail to the 2 airports that you demanded in another thread? I'll give you a hint. It starts with a 'B', and has a 4 or a 5, or even a 6 in front of it. Not only must Houston compete for this money against every other city for transit funds, they also have to prove that people will ride it, and that the cost per passenger is not too high, and then they have to hope that Congress approves enough money to fund it, and then hope that energy traders in Houston do not convince state legislators to kill the whole deal by taking away METRO's powers of eminent domain...and you're telling me I have to think about the future? And money is not the most important factor? IT IS THE ONLY IMPORTANT FACTOR! Without it, nothing gets built. NOTHING!Are you trying to be funny, or are you really that naive that you think all we have to do is ask for it and it will be given to us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 yes it might cost of course, but you have to think about the future, 20 years ahead and how the problem will get worse and worse if nothing is dont quickly. Money is not the most important factor behind the motives of a project sometimes, but more about the impact and good it will do towards a city.I don't think adding 10 miles to a system thats pretty much useless will work anyways. As I have said before, Houston considering its the 4th most populated city in the US (top 10 metro), needs a heavy rail system "urban" transit system! The people that truly care about the city would agree. Name one world class city without one.........You can't, they don't exist. I just can't believe a city the size of Houston could be so far behind other cities when it comes to mass transit, all because of the interest of a few bad seeds. I really feel sorry for the city. The fiscal conservatives on here will bash the hell out of me for posting this, but its the truth! I guaranty you that even with the light rail as planned, that Houston will begin to fall behind comparable cities and lose population. All of this will happen as the nation moves away from its car/oil dependency. People will move to places where they can get around without a car, and a small toy train pushing down the street won't cut. So is it too late to start over with a new transportation agency? I would say yes, it is. At this point its too late. Houston will never get a true mass transit system, it will never compete as a world class city. It has had plenty of chances in the past, but has always failed. If only the citizens of the city would have taken charge and not let people with special interest and greed takeover. At this point I will just sit back and watch this disaster happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I guaranty you that even with the light rail as planned, that Houston will begin to fall behind comparable cities and lose population. Bwahahahahahahaha! ...you are kidding, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Bwahahahahahahaha! I'm afraid I have to agree with Niche here. Bwahahahahahahaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 The fiscal conservatives on here will bash the hell out of me for posting this, but its the truth!it's not limited to fiscal conservatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I see. And you would pay for this extra 40 miles of rail construction how?Just like the rest of America and California...go into debtIt's not financially responsible, but hey, things happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I don't think adding 10 miles to a system thats pretty much useless will work anyways. As I have said before, Houston considering its the 4th most populated city in the US (top 10 metro), needs a heavy rail system "urban" transit system! The people that truly care about the city would agree. Name one world class city without one.........You can't, they don't exist. I just can't believe a city the size of Houston could be so far behind other cities when it comes to mass transit, all because of the interest of a few bad seeds. I really feel sorry for the city. The fiscal conservatives on here will bash the hell out of me for posting this, but its the truth! I guaranty you that even with the light rail as planned, that Houston will begin to fall behind comparable cities and lose population. All of this will happen as the nation moves away from its car/oil dependency. People will move to places where they can get around without a car, and a small toy train pushing down the street won't cut. So is it too late to start over with a new transportation agency? I would say yes, it is. At this point its too late. Houston will never get a true mass transit system, it will never compete as a world class city. It has had plenty of chances in the past, but has always failed. If only the citizens of the city would have taken charge and not let people with special interest and greed takeover. At this point I will just sit back and watch this disaster happen.AYFKM? As long as Houston sits on the edge of a deep water port, only a few miles inland from the gulf, in a temperate climate, it will not lose population. If you understood the first thing about human history you would know this. There are much bigger things at play driving population than car versus rail. In the grander scheme of things, it is Dallas and Atlanta that are expendable.edit: oops, I didn't read all the way down before posting. It seems Niche and Red both have already dogged you. My Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 It starts with a 'B',Or as I like to put it, a "three-comma number." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDeb Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I don't think adding 10 miles to a system thats pretty much useless will work anyways. As I have said before, Houston considering its the 4th most populated city in the US (top 10 metro), needs a heavy rail system "urban" transit system! The people that truly care about the city would agree. Name one world class city without one.........You can't, they don't exist. I just can't believe a city the size of Houston could be so far behind other cities when it comes to mass transit, all because of the interest of a few bad seeds. I really feel sorry for the city. The fiscal conservatives on here will bash the hell out of me for posting this, but its the truth! I guaranty you that even with the light rail as planned, that Houston will begin to fall behind comparable cities and lose population. All of this will happen as the nation moves away from its car/oil dependency. People will move to places where they can get around without a car, and a small toy train pushing down the street won't cut. So is it too late to start over with a new transportation agency? I would say yes, it is. At this point its too late. Houston will never get a true mass transit system, it will never compete as a world class city. It has had plenty of chances in the past, but has always failed. If only the citizens of the city would have taken charge and not let people with special interest and greed takeover. At this point I will just sit back and watch this disaster happen.You could have posted, "I plan to sprout wings and fly tomorrow," and it would have been less delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 I'm afraid I have to agree with Niche here.Bwahahahahahahaha! We have a first on HAIF. It hasn't helped that we are so spread and that Big Oil has always dominated. Southwest Airlines also lobbied against rail between major Texas cities. We will have commuter (heavy) rail one day. These areas have begun to fill in and it seems more feasible now. With the recent gasoline price instability, I think many are beginning to change their minds regarding rail. I've voted for it every time since it was first brought to the table in the 80's. I don't understand why people refer to the Red Line as a toy train. I've used train systems all around the world and just can't understand the toy reference. Have you seen a car that the "Toy" has collided with? I do have issue with it being at grade though. I really wish it would have passed in the 80's and we'd have Monorail zipping overhead, all around town - truly Space City. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaTrain Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 The Greater Houston already has three other transit agencies. Montgomery County has the Woodlands Express, Fort Bend has the TREX and Galveston has Island Transit. But still I would like for another transit agencies to fill in gaping urbanized holes in transportation holes someway somehow. And in the future buy out TREX and Woodlands Express and expand in both of those areas. Plus the Northern and Eastern portions of Harris County and Brazoria County can establish their own. Park and ride routes running between Pearland to Houston and TMC can finally be realized this way, and new P&R routes can be created for Richmond and Rosenburg since they are the farthest from the well known part of Fort Bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Are you trying to be funny, or are you really that naive that you think all we have to do is ask for it and it will be given to us?Of course not, we all know things dont work like that. We just dont get money for fun, but some very reliable solution other than a practically worthless lightrail system must be implemented to deal with these problems that will arise because of a lack in a fully established urban transit system. Yes, money is of course needed but somehow someway, we need to acquire funds to go ahead with more useful projects. Debt might be an option, but there also needs to be a way to recover from that debt. I just think that light rail has never and will never be the correct option for a metropolis this size. Heavy rail would be wonderful, even subways, but then we have the funding problem again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Of course not, we all know things dont work like that. We just dont get money for fun, but some very reliable solution other than a practically worthless lightrail system must be implemented to deal with these problems that will arise because of a lack in a fully established urban transit system. Yes, money is of course needed but somehow someway, we need to acquire funds to go ahead with more useful projects. Debt might be an option, but there also needs to be a way to recover from that debt. I just think that light rail has never and will never be the correct option for a metropolis this size. Heavy rail would be wonderful, even subways, but then we have the funding problem again.Rather than use the citykid09 tactic of simply stating "I just think that light rail has never and will never be the correct option for a metropolis this size.", why don't you enlighten us as to WHY it is not right. I could drown you in reasons why heavy rail and subways are a wasteful and over-engineered system for Houston, except in some VERY limited areas, but I have found that exercise to be useless, as posters like you and citykid never explain why your solution is better. And, you NEVER consider the cost of your solution in the mix, even though it is critical to getting any rail transit system at all!Should you decide to actually post a reasonable and thoughtful explanation of your views, please include the estimated cost of your solution versus light rail, as well as the improvements over light rail. Please explain why the passenger capacity of light rail is insufficient for a city that, while more dense than either Dallas or Atlanta, is miniscule compared to Northeastern and Midwestern cities, and is even one-half of Los Angeles. If you do not plan to address these issues, please place a note at the top of your post, so that I do not have to read all the way through it.Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Now that I live close to the Med Center, I see daily how many people use the initial rail line. We can argue all we want about people being "forced" to use it, but it doesn't change the fact that people USE IT. Don't assume that just because you don't use it that nobody else does. Take a trip down Fannin at 11 pm and see how many folks are lined up on the platform to take the toy train. It'll surprise you. I know it surprised me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdog08 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 I don't think adding 10 miles to a system thats pretty much useless will work anyways. As I have said before, Houston considering its the 4th most populated city in the US (top 10 metro), needs a heavy rail system "urban" transit system! The people that truly care about the city would agree. Name one world class city without one.........You can't, they don't exist. I just can't believe a city the size of Houston could be so far behind other cities when it comes to mass transit, all because of the interest of a few bad seeds. I really feel sorry for the city. The fiscal conservatives on here will bash the hell out of me for posting this, but its the truth! I guaranty you that even with the light rail as planned, that Houston will begin to fall behind comparable cities and lose population. All of this will happen as the nation moves away from its car/oil dependency. People will move to places where they can get around without a car, and a small toy train pushing down the street won't cut. So is it too late to start over with a new transportation agency? I would say yes, it is. At this point its too late. Houston will never get a true mass transit system, it will never compete as a world class city. It has had plenty of chances in the past, but has always failed. If only the citizens of the city would have taken charge and not let people with special interest and greed takeover. At this point I will just sit back and watch this disaster happen.Man if you didnt seal your fate earlier on HAIF with your comments, then you have done so now. Toy train? Wow. Is it that hard to comprehend that you can't build a system with only heavy/commuter rail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrnavid Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 RedScareRather than use the citykid09 tactic of simply stating "I just think that light rail has never and will never be the correct option for a metropolis this size.", why don't you enlighten us as to WHY it is not right. I could drown you in reasons why heavy rail and subways are a wasteful and over-engineered system for Houston, except in some VERY limited areas, but I have found that exercise to be useless, as posters like you and citykid never explain why your solution is better. And, you NEVER consider the cost of your solution in the mix, even though it is critical to getting any rail transit system at all!Should you decide to actually post a reasonable and thoughtful explanation of your views, please include the estimated cost of your solution versus light rail, as well as the improvements over light rail. Please explain why the passenger capacity of light rail is insufficient for a city that, while more dense than either Dallas or Atlanta, is miniscule compared to Northeastern and Midwestern cities, and is even one-half of Los Angeles. If you do not plan to address these issues, please place a note at the top of your post, so that I do not have to read all the way through it.Thanks in advance.Yes, I understand where you are coming from. Im not going to give any cost estimations because theyre going to not be accurate. All im saying, even if its just light rail, is that we need to just ensure that we have a mass transit system in place at least by 2015. I know the current light rails will be done with construction by 2012, so now that Metro is finally actually acting on somewhat of a solution, we just have to make sure the plan eventually covers most of the city. Houston is a great city, but the phenomenal growth we are having must include growth in our transit system. I just hope we dont lose out on another olympic bid because we could have probably won the 2016 one if we had a transit system in place before bidding. A transit system is very vital to growth, but you are completely correct in the fact that the cost is the most important factor in this projects future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 All im saying, even if its just light rail, is that we need to just ensure that we have a mass transit system in place at least by 2015. That's right. There's a ticking clock. If we don't fit Jrnavid's criteria for mass transit by the end of 2015, he will no doubt bombard us from his secret nuclear missile launch sites on the moon. ...oh, wait. We already have a mass transit system. Never mind, false alarm. we could have probably won the 2016 [Olympic bid] if we had a transit system in place before bidding. How do you figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I'm starting to think jrnavid is related to citykid somehow. A cousin, perhaps?So, jrnavid, what if I were to tell you that we already have a mass transit system that covers ALL of the city, and most of the county, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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