Stop Gosling Oaks Affordable Housing Apartments On FM 2920 & Gosling Rd.

[kylejack]

Presumably you shop at grocery stores, so perhaps some low-income workers in your area would be good. Lower grocery prices, more employees. Try and see the positive side of this.

[Reefmonkey]

Unless you live in this area, you have no right to comment about where would be a "fine place" for "low income" housing.

Actually, I grew up fairly near there, in Cypresswood.

Unless you live in this area, you have no right to comment about where would be a "fine place" for "low income" housing. This is not a "vacant" area. There are several communities with a 1-mile radius of the proposed site. One in particular is diagonal and homes start in the $300,000. This would drastically change the property values for this area as well as the marketability of the surrounding neighborhoods.

The low-income apartments within walking distance of my 2200 sq ft 1-story house built in 1965 didn't stop it from selling for over $300K.

MY MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THIS DEVELOPMENT IS THAT WE ARE USING TAX DOLLARS TO MOVE LOW INCOME FAMILIES INTO OUR SUBURBS. We moved out of downtown to get away from "low income" housing and now they are proposing to use my tax dollars to move them right in; not to mention the impact this would have on our schools. Klein ISD is having to build elementary school just about every year to keep up with the development in this area. FM2920 and Spring Stuebner are parking lots at 5pm and we should be using our tax dollars to expand these roads rather than bringing in more people.

The city is growing, it's expanding, the land out there is some of the cheaper land in the Houston area. Would you rather they used more of your tax dollars so they could buy more expensive land closer into the city?

That area was farmland before you moved out there. you moved out there because someone started a process of suburbanizing the area, and more and more development was the inevitable outcome of that process that you helped along by buying a home out there, then wanting a closeby supermarket and drycleaner. You don't get to freeze time, to stop progress. Mostly you don't get to dictate what gets built on land you don't own. Accept it and go on with your life.

I don't want people walking their shopping carts down 2920 to get to the low income housing project from their shopping trip to the local Wal-Mart or grocery store.

Wow, that's lovely. I'm wondering, are you a churchgoing Christian? Just curious.

If you think it's a "fine" project, move them in next to your neighborhood. Oh yeah--NIMBY!!

They are in my backyard, and I accept the reality that I live in a large, sprawling, diverse city, so not everyone near me is going to be white and middle class like me.

[KatieDidIt]

Actually, I grew up fairly near there, in Cypresswood.

The low-income apartments within walking distance of my 2200 sq ft 1-story house built in 1965 didn't stop it from selling for over $300K.

The city is growing, it's expanding, the land out there is some of the cheaper land in the Houston area. Would you rather they used more of your tax dollars so they could buy more expensive land closer into the city?

That area was farmland before you moved out there. you moved out there because someone started a process of suburbanizing the area, and more and more development was the inevitable outcome of that process that you helped along by buying a home out there, then wanting a closeby supermarket and drycleaner. You don't get to freeze time, to stop progress. Mostly you don't get to dictate what gets built on land you don't own. Accept it and go on with your life.

Wow, that's lovely. I'm wondering, are you a churchgoing Christian? Just curious.

They are in my backyard, and I accept the reality that I live in a large, sprawling, diverse city, so not everyone near me is going to be white and middle class like me.

Reef, the only difference is when they tear those Tully things down one day, they are going to build million dollar patio homes. 25 to an acre.

[RedScare]

Well great..but I noticed you didn't say YOU live here. Maybe that's why you are not upset...it's your parents property value not yours.

I'm not concerned about property values. They are my parents. They are in their mid-80s. I am concerned about their well-being, and this project does not concern me in that respect. And, since you apparently cannot read my info under my name, I live inside the loop, surrounded by low-income neighborhoods, with a low income apartment building on my block. In spite of all the wretched refuse surrounding me, the value of my property has nearly doubled in 5 years, to where my 1360 sf shoebox of a house is likely worth more than your McMansion. So, no, I am not the least bit worried about property values, or the effect that the working poor have on it.

Hope this helps.

[TheNiche]

Presumably you shop at grocery stores, so perhaps some low-income workers in your area would be good. Lower grocery prices, more employees. Try and see the positive side of this.

Nah, I've got reject this. Firstly, the price of groceries at a particular store is not directly related to the cost of goods sold, but to what the market can bear. Lowering a store's operating expense only results in profit for that store, not necessarily in savings for the consumer. Even if there were meaningful savings, they'd be so minuscule relative to the impact on property values immediately around the Tax Credit housing as to make such a comparison absurd. You may as well try to find the silver lining in a hurricane.

You were correct about having plenty of Tax Credit projects near where you live. There's even a new one that was completed last year at Canal and Jensen, just to the north of you, that was on very expensive land and is four stories over a parking structure. You also have a bunch of Section 8 within that five-mile radius, however, and that stuff legitimately does stink up the inner loop schools and adversely impact property values. I think that most suburban NIMBYists don't really understand the difference between Tax Credit and Section 8, though.

[Reefmonkey]

Reef, the only difference is when they tear those Tully things down one day, they are going to build million dollar patio homes. 25 to an acre.

Now I AM worried. NOT IN MY BACKYARD!

[kylejack]

Nah, I've got reject this. Firstly, the price of groceries at a particular store is not directly related to the cost of goods sold, but to what the market can bear. Lowering a store's operating expense only results in profit for that store, not necessarily in savings for the consumer.

Stores may not give much back when their expenses are low, but raising a store's operating expenses certainly results in higher prices for the consumer, and recruitment of new employees in a high turnover industry can be difficult if they don't live close by or have access to decent mass transit.

[EMME]

Reality...there are lots of low income people in the Tomball area, so really, what are you opposing?

I find it difficult to feel sympathy for someone with so little of it.

I live a few streets from Independence Heights. There is a freeway between us, but there are cut throughs under it. I grew up across the street from Tanglewood and went to school with people from the poorer areas (at that time off of Hillcroft Ave. between Richmond and 59). My best friends were one of the Bush children and a young Jewish girl who lived in some apartments (such shame in those days). Her dad slept all day and worked all night. I never saw him in the vertical. My favorite schoolmate in first grade was Freddy Jiminez, I don't think his parents spoke english, but he did. My Jewish friend would not have been welcome at our country club, and I am certain that Freddy would not have either. Times have changed here in the city (certainly not enough), but evidently not at all in Tomball. My nephew whom I love and adore lives there. He grew up in the Klein school district. And while he is a lovely and hard working young man, he shows me all the time what you guys teach there, and it ain't being tolerant, loving, and kind.

[TheNiche]

I'm not concerned about property values. They are my parents. They are in their mid-80s. I am concerned about their well-being, and this project does not concern me in that respect. And, since you apparently cannot read my info under my name, I live inside the loop, surrounded by low-income neighborhoods, with a low income apartment building on my block. In spite of all the wretched refuse surrounding me, the value of my property has nearly doubled in 5 years, to where my 1360 sf shoebox of a house is likely worth more than your McMansion. So, no, I am not the least bit worried about property values, or the effect that the working poor have on it.

Hope this helps.

Surely you do recognize that MOMMA's concerns are legitimate. The market dynamics affecting properties in the Heights are very different from those that affect suburban areas. In short, affluent households are only willing to tolerate purchasing a new home in the suburbs because they want a safe environment and good schools in which to raise their kids. The reality is that kids are going to act the way that they were raised to act, no matter where they're raised, however even very smart people confuse correlation with causation in ways that prompt them to buy very expensive homes in places that they regard as kid-friendly.

If something about a neighborhood changes which detracts from the kid-friendliness, whether real or perceived, the market reacts adversely. Anybody who owns a home in that area is going to be affected by the adverse impact to market prices and the potential for conditions which could lead to future 'white flight'.

[EMME]

Surely you do recognize that MOMMA's concerns are legitimate. The market dynamics affecting properties in the Heights are very different from those that affect suburban areas. In short, affluent households are only willing to tolerate purchasing a new home in the suburbs because they want a safe environment and good schools in which to raise their kids. The reality is that kids are going to act the way that they were raised to act, no matter where they're raised, however even very smart people confuse correlation with causation in ways that prompt them to buy very expensive homes in places that they regard as kid-friendly.

If something about a neighborhood changes which detracts from the kid-friendliness, whether real or perceived, the market reacts adversely. Anybody who owns a home in that area is going to be affected by the market prices and the potential for conditions which could lead to future 'white flight'.

They need to change their perception. It's like a girl who perceives there are germs on the toilet seat in the women's room so they squat over the toilet thereby leaving germs on the toilet seat. Just sit down already!

[MOMMA]

I am not expecting everyone to be white and middle class. My parents grew up inside the loop and wanted a better life for us. I am just wanting the same for my children. Schools with less than 30 kids in a classroom and the ability to be in local establishments late at night.

You cannot compare HISTORIC downtown to the suburbs. When you purchase a home for $300,000 downtown you are paying for location...proximity to everything downtown has to offer. But I would bet that you don't wander around the streets past 10pm, even to go grocery shopping.

[TheNiche]

Stores may not give much back when their expenses are low, but raising a store's operating expenses certainly results in higher prices for the consumer, and recruitment of new employees in a high turnover industry can be difficult if they don't live close by or have access to decent mass transit.

The stores that already exist were built to be able to charge groceries at the price that the market would bear without having easy access to unskilled labor. If the store is already able to make a profit and the market for groceries has already been proven, then what is the motivation for that store to reduce its product pricing as a response to lower operating costs in what in an exurban (typically duopolistic) competitive landscape?

[MOMMA]

They need to change their perception. It's like a girl who perceives there are germs on the toilet seat in the women's room so they squat over the toilet thereby leaving germs on the toilet seat. Just sit down already!

It's just like a flu..THE SWINE FLU..panic and perception closes schools for weeks. Why?? Because the best predictor of future events is the past. People died in Mexico...causes pandemic scares in the USA. Low income homes tend to bring more crime/gangs/drugs/graffiti. Any of the areas mentioned that have these projects in their backyards cannot say that their community is free of these things. Why is it so bad to not want that in our area as well?? Is it the "misery loves company" theory. "I have it you can too!!"

[KatieDidIt]

I am not expecting everyone to be white and middle class. My parents grew up inside the loop and wanted a better life for us. I am just wanting the same for my children. Schools with less than 30 kids in a classroom and the ability to be in local establishments late at night.

Funny, I moved back in from The Woodlands to get that.

[KatieDidIt]

It's just like a flu..THE SWINE FLU..panic and perception closes schools for weeks. Why?? Because the best predictor of future events is the past. People died in Mexico...causes pandemic scares in the USA. Low income homes tend to bring more crime/gangs/drugs/graffiti. Any of the areas mentioned that have these projects in their backyards cannot say that their community is free of these things. Why is it so bad to not want that in our area as well?? Is it the "misery loves company" theory. "I have it you can too!!"

My neighborhood is free of things. We have plenty of low income all around us in every direction, and the houses are worth well more than 300,000. I'm pretty fasinated by this fear in some of these thread here lately.

[Reefmonkey]

You cannot compare HISTORIC downtown to the suburbs. When you purchase a home for $300,000 downtown you are paying for location...proximity to everything downtown has to offer. But I would bet that you don't wander around the streets past 10pm, even to go grocery shopping.

I'm not comparing them. I don't live downtown, I live outside Beltway 8, at Dairy-Ashford, in the suburbs. That also happen to have low-income apartments. We go out at night, to the grocery story, to the restaurants around us, for walks in our neighborhood. We don't live in paranoid histrionic fear.

[TheNiche]

They need to change their perception. It's like a girl who perceives there are germs on the toilet seat in the women's room so they squat over the toilet thereby leaving germs on the toilet seat. Just sit down already!

Say that you're a commercial property manager and women keep on spraying the toilet seat. Which is the more rational response: 1) accommodate their irrational fears by providing paper toilet seat covers, thereby reducing the incidences of nasty toilet seats which increases tenant satisfaction and reduces janitorial overhead, or 2) lecture them on an internet forum?

[MOMMA]

I'm not comparing them. I don't live downtown, I live outside Beltway 8, at Dairy-Ashford, in the suburbs. That also happen to have low-income apartments. We go out at night, to the grocery story, to the restaurants around us, for walks in our neighborhood. We don't live in paranoid histrionic fear.

I don't either...just an informed home-owner who cares and who is going to speak her mind!! That's awesome for you!!!

[RedScare]

Surely you do recognize that MOMMA's concerns are legitimate. The market dynamics affecting properties in the Heights are very different from those that affect suburban areas. In short, affluent households are only willing to tolerate purchasing a new home in the suburbs because they want a safe environment and good schools in which to raise their kids. The reality is that kids are going to act the way that they were raised to act, no matter where they're raised, however even very smart people confuse correlation with causation in ways that prompt them to buy very expensive homes in places that they regard as kid-friendly.

If something about a neighborhood changes which detracts from the kid-friendliness, whether real or perceived, the market reacts adversely. Anybody who owns a home in that area is going to be affected by the adverse impact to market prices and the potential for conditions which could lead to future 'white flight'.

While I wouldn't call a subdivision where the overwhelming majority of the homes sell for under $300,000 affluent, I recognize that the homeowners fears that, being the suburbs, only other narrow minded individuals would purchase out there, and a project such as this may scare those prospective buyers away. However, my recognition of the thought process used by these homeowners does not require me then to agree with it. The fact is, these apartment complexes are indistinguishable from any other upper middle class complex. They're even likely to put that hideous hill country stone on them to make them look like homes you'd find in Windrose. The only way prospective homebuyers will even know it is there is because the current Windrose homeowners made such a big public televised stink about it.

Note to Momma. I don't wander my streets at 10 pm. Because I work nights, I wander them at 4 am and shop at the 24 hour Kroger on Shepherd. When it is cold, they even let homeless people sleep in the heated foyer. No, this does not bother me.

[Reefmonkey]

I don't either...just an informed home-owner who cares and who is going to speak her mind!! That's awesome for you!!!

Well, I guess StopGoslingOaks signed up on this website today thinking she'd post about her efforts to block this project and would get a wave of support. When that didn't happen, she got you to sign up for the website so that you could back her up. I'm not sure if she thought you were going to change people's minds, or she just wanted to see one post that supported her. You've spoken your mind alright, but it appears you have made most of us even less sympathic to StopGoslingOaks' cause.

[Reefmonkey]

While I wouldn't call a subdivision where the overwhelming majority of the homes sell for under $300,000 affluent, I recognize that the homeowners fears that, being the suburbs, only other narrow minded individuals would purchase out there, and a project such as this may scare those prospective buyers away. However, my recognition of the thought process used by these homeowners does not require me then to agree with it. The fact is, these apartment complexes are indistinguishable from any other upper middle class complex. They're even likely to put that hideous hill country stone on them to make them look like homes you'd find in Windrose. The only way prospective homebuyers will even know it is there is because the current Windrose homeowners made such a big public televised stink about it.

Well said.

[RedScare]

Well said.

You're just saying that because I am a fellow Cypresswood alumnus.

[MOMMA]

AWESOME NEWS!!! NEVER MIND...THEY PULLED THE PERMIT AND THEY ARE NOT BUILDING HERE!!

I GUESS I DO HAVE A VOICE AND CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!

[RedScare]

AWESOME NEWS!!! NEVER MIND...THEY PULLED THE PERMIT AND THEY ARE NOT BUILDING HERE!!

I GUESS I DO HAVE A VOICE AND CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!

Great! Now, you can spend your time and money planting some trees on that barren golf course!

[MOMMA]

Great! Now, you can spend your time and money planting some trees on that barren golf course!

That's a great idea...I will do that!!!

[KatieDidIt]

Great! Now, you can spend your time and money planting some trees on that barren golf course!

ROTF!!

thank you Red.

PS-I've recently heard there is a large section of land that has become available for section 8 housing.

[TheNiche]

While I wouldn't call a subdivision where the overwhelming majority of the homes sell for under $300,000 affluent, I recognize that the homeowners fears that, being the suburbs, only other narrow minded individuals would purchase out there, and a project such as this may scare those prospective buyers away. However, my recognition of the thought process used by these homeowners does not require me then to agree with it.

There is no absolute metric to determine affluence. It is subjective. Clearly the folks participating on this thread consider themselves affluent relative to those that they seek to segregate themselves from. And so they are, in that context.

The bottom line is that anybody that owns a home is exposed to the adverse impact of these apartments on market demand. To be clear, I am not arguing that these folks have anything to be concerned about in terms of lifestyle; those concerns are bunk. But the market being what it is, these Tax Credit apartments are bad news (for them).

They're still NIMBYs, it's still going to be a lost cause on their part, and they still annoy the crap out of me. ...but the folks who have dogpiled them on HAIF are also largely approaching this the wrong way, marginalizing the issue by completely ignoring the very different realities associated with suburban housing markets.

The fact is, these apartment complexes are indistinguishable from any other upper middle class complex. They're even likely to put that hideous hill country stone on them to make them look like homes you'd find in Windrose. The only way prospective homebuyers will even know it is there is because the current Windrose homeowners made such a big public televised stink about it.

Then you aren't looking closely enough. I can tell the difference between Tax Credit and market-rate Class A apartments just driving by, typically just by glancing at the materials used for siding and the proportions in which they were used. And if you've ever been inside them, the differences are very apparent. All the interior finishes are cheap and the common areas are very basic.

[TheNiche]

AWESOME NEWS!!! NEVER MIND...THEY PULLED THE PERMIT AND THEY ARE NOT BUILDING HERE!!

I GUESS I DO HAVE A VOICE AND CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!

Is this something that you did, is it a consequence of capital market illiquidity, or is it that crazy scoring system that TDHCA administers that I was so critical of in an earlier post?

[KatieDidIt]

AWESOME NEWS!!! NEVER MIND...THEY PULLED THE PERMIT AND THEY ARE NOT BUILDING HERE!!

I GUESS I DO HAVE A VOICE AND CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!!!

Just in time for wine-thirty on the cul-de-sac, and manic gossip!

[KatieDidIt]

There is no absolute metric to determine affluence. It is subjective. Clearly the folks participating on this thread consider themselves affluent relative to those that they seek to segregate themselves from. And so they are, in that context.

The bottom line is that anybody that owns a home is exposed to the adverse impact of these apartments on market demand. To be clear, I am not arguing that these folks have anything to be concerned about in terms of lifestyle; those concerns are bunk. But the market being what it is, these Tax Credit apartments are bad news (for them).

They're still NIMBYs, it's still going to be a lost cause on their part, and they still annoy the crap out of me. ...but the folks who have dogpiled them on HAIF are also largely approaching this the wrong way, marginalizing the issue by completely ignoring the very different realities associated with suburban housing markets.

Then you aren't looking closely enough. I can tell the difference between Tax Credit and market-rate Class A apartments just driving by, typically just by glancing at the materials used for siding and the proportions in which they were used. And if you've ever been inside them, the differences are very apparent. All the interior finishes are cheap and the common areas are very basic.

Niche, I understand what you are saying. There is no way to sell the home to the market that swamps the area. Fellow flighters would never buy a house near such a complex. They would either search farther out or around. The burbs are an endless circle around this city, and it's not hard to find one without an apartment complex near it. However, how long will those open fields nextdoor remain undeveloped? The land in the great out there is far cheaper than near loop areas, the building codes more lax to my knowledge, therefore more enticing to developers.