Fringe Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Don McLeroy's anti-science rhetoric ramblings have received a lot national attention. It’s totally embarrassing. How is it possible we have this retard as the Chairman of the Texas State Board of Education? Please contact your Texas Senators and get this guy out of office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeats Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Oh, God. I saw that on Digg this morning and wanted to crawl under a rock. The only thing I can say in our defense as Texans is this: College Station. That is, at least it didn't come out of one of our major cities. And, really, Texas A&M makes its own jokes, so I won't even go there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 This is the kind of thing that makes Canadians laugh at me for being in Texas. The only thing that makes me feel better about it is knowing that most Texans I've met don't like the idea of people like this being in important positions either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I'm not embarrassed in the least to be a Texan.This is one guy (of many) in state government that I wish weren't there. That's all. The City of Houston has them, and so does the United States. Yes, even Canada has them. For as long as there are bureaucrats, there will be bad apples among them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I cannot believe this clown is even allowed to set foot in any government building. What a CLOWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BryanS Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 But doesn't he ask legitimate scientific questions, not necessarily related to creationism? If evolution is a gradual change process... how can some evolutionary tracks be vertical in nature, as he claims? Why are there "spontaneous" fossil records that cannot be traced back to other records, as he claims? If we indeed did evolve from monkeys... then why are there still monkeys? (said unknown stand-up comedian). It would be interesting to hear the scientific rebuttal to his arguments vs. just dismissing him as a religious crazy person that believes in nothing but creationism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 Churches are for preaching. Schools are for teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 But doesn't he ask legitimate scientific questions, not necessarily related to creationism? If evolution is a gradual change process... how can some evolutionary tracks be vertical in nature, as he claims? Why are there "spontaneous" fossil records that cannot be traced back to other records, as he claims? If we indeed did evolve from monkeys... then why are there still monkeys? (said unknown stand-up comedian). It would be interesting to hear the scientific rebuttal to his arguments vs. just dismissing him as a religious crazy person that believes in nothing but creationism.Those who should be answering that question general just dismiss people who ask that question entirely. They don't know any better than we do. When will these gits (on both sides) realize that creationism and evolution are NOT mutually exclusive. They can coexist just fine. One can address the empirical parts only without ever touching on the divine parts and vice versa and never contradict the other. That said, I don't think creation should be taught in schools simply because different religions have different versions of creation. Teach the bits that are proven, not the bits that are theoretical (which is still an awful lot of it whether people want to admit that or not)Churches are for preaching. Schools are for teaching.You're right. Preaching isn't done only by the religious though. Slamming down someone's throat that creation is asinine and cannot possibly be true and that anyone who believes in it (which is the vast majority of the planet mind you) is an idiot is just preaching of a different type. Minds are closed by parties on BOTH sides of this subject, which is ironic since those who are actually scientists, if they truly believe in science, cannot possibly rule out the possibility of divine participation in the creation of life. Here is another thing to consider. Even if science addresses the questions he asks, which aren't unreasonable to ask in the slightest, it still does not rule out creation nor does it make creation and evolution mutually exclusive.In my very simplistic explanation of things, evolution is the process of creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Add to that, btw, that in varying religions and stories of creation, 85% of the planet's population believes in divinity of some sort and a creation story of some sort. The 15.2% of us who believe in nothing are going to presume to tell the remaining 84.8% that we are nuts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 But doesn't he ask legitimate scientific questions, not necessarily related to creationism? If evolution is a gradual change process... how can some evolutionary tracks be vertical in nature, as he claims? Why are there "spontaneous" fossil records that cannot be traced back to other records, as he claims? If we indeed did evolve from monkeys... then why are there still monkeys? (said unknown stand-up comedian). It would be interesting to hear the scientific rebuttal to his arguments vs. just dismissing him as a religious crazy person that believes in nothing but creationism.There are plenty of scientific "rebuttals" available. Here's one, found by a simple google search:http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/futuyma.htmlThe reason there are still monkeys is that they are different, now, too. There was a common ancestor far in the past, from which various lines emerged, including human, and great apes. I think it's too bad that people distrust science so much. People refuse to believe in evolution by natural selection, yet don't stop to wonder why, if scientists are so stupid, that we've still been able to put people in space, build flat-screen t.v.s , and develop nano-science. But what do those yo-yos know, after all. I'd rather believe an ignorant politician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NenaE Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 This is the kind of thing that makes Canadians laugh at me for being in Texas. The only thing that makes me feel better about it is knowing that most Texans I've met don't like the idea of people like this being in important positions either. I'm usually surrounded by Canadians. The ones I know like to sometimes point out certain "little" things about our state, but for the most part, they love the warm weather, and the money they are making in our great state of Texas. Many "Texans" are transplants, anyway. And every place has it's share of "those types of characters", even Canada. BTW, what is this guy trying to say? Way too much double-talk... he needs to take a speech class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I think it's too bad that people distrust science so much. People refuse to believe in evolution by natural selection, yet don't stop to wonder why, if scientists are so stupid, that we've still been able to put people in space, build flat-screen t.v.s , and develop nano-science. But what do those yo-yos know, after all. I'd rather believe an ignorant politician.One must always rigorously question the theory and the evidence. True scientists distrust their own findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 One must always rigorously question the theory and the evidence. True scientists distrust their own findings.Rigor is fine. That's what peer review is for. But ignorant, blind distrust of proven science does not impress me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 What? You guys are attacking Don McLeroy? I actually know him and met him lots of times (a lot more than all of you combined) and know of his stance on evolutionism/creationism. I know his stance on anti-evolution is pretty extreme, but first keep in mind that "evolution" often means "survival of the fittest". Short-necked giraffes probably existed at one time but died out because they weren't very good, leading to the survival of tall-necked giraffes. Did short-necked giraffes "evolve" into long-necked ones? No. Should I add that the most of you are acting like jerks right now, or is that just left to be assumed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Rigor is fine. That's what peer review is for. But ignorant, blind distrust of proven science does not impress me.Scientific findings cannot be proved.Newton had plenty of peer review and was for a long time considered the final word in physics. What his findings described could be consistently replicated in laboratory and real-world environments. And for most practical applications, they're still valid. But his conception of universal laws of physics eventually proved false.Had scientists had ignorant and blind trust in Newtonian physics, they would've ceased being scientists and instead been merely preachers of a faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Actually, I shouldn't be surprised that you people are attacking McLeroy. It's certainly not exclusive to the HAIF, so I shouldn't single you out of the rest of the jerks out there. Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inthehotsun Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Unfortunately, the Texas Senate backed down and NOW will vote for the idiot again to be head of the State Board of Education.On a funny note....check out this link in The Onion about Texas...hilarious....http://www.theonion.com/content/news/texas...ource=a-section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Should I add that the most of you are acting like jerks right now, or is that just left to be assumed? It's certainly not exclusive to the HAIF, so I shouldn't single you out of the rest of the jerks out there. Yawn. It's great that you feel passionately about this, and I don't know who you're specifically talking to, but please refrain from name-calling other members of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I just added 2 more to my ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Scientific findings cannot be proved.Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porchman Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I guess we can be encouraged to hear that he acknowledges something that took place 550 million years ago(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 No offense to Iron Tiger, but am I the only one tripping over the fact that someone with a stuffed-tiger avatar is defending Don McLeroy in a public forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 No offense to Iron Tiger, but am I the only one tripping over the fact that someone with a stuffed-tiger avatar is defending Don McLeroy in a public forum?Maybe the stuffing is some kind of iron alloy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Wrong.Do explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 It's great that you feel passionately about this, and I don't know who you're specifically talking to, but please refrain from name-calling other members of the forum. OK, I know that personal insults are not nice, but blatant attacks on other people are not nice either. I know McLeroy is unpopular and this forum is no exception, but would we shouldn't have merciless "attack threads". Not on McLeroy, not on anyone. What if someone had a thread called "Embarrassed to be an American" and attacked Obama? Entirely different story. Suppose McLeroy was a member on the HAIF (he isn't). Wouldn't people feel ashamed that they were attacking a fellow HAIFer? And sheeats, attacking a city with several decent people on this forum? And Crunch, avatars typically don't mean anything. You were the one with the dog, right? So fine, I'll change my avatar, all right? Also, here is a webcomic that kind of shows how a lot of science and paranoia work together: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 Scientific findings cannot be proved.And the bible can? Suppose McLeroy was a member on the HAIF (he isn't). Wouldn't people feel ashamed that they were attacking a fellow HAIFer?Not if your a bozo in public office. Glad your in love with the guy irontiger but all your doing is reinforcing my belief that most hard core christiians are hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 OK, I know that personal insults are not nice, but blatant attacks on other people are not nice either. I know McLeroy is unpopular and this forum is no exception, but would we shouldn't have merciless "attack threads". Not on McLeroy, not on anyone. What if someone had a thread called "Embarrassed to be an American" and attacked Obama? Entirely different story.Suppose McLeroy was a member on the HAIF (he isn't). Wouldn't people feel ashamed that they were attacking a fellow HAIFer? And sheeats, attacking a city with several decent people on this forum?And Crunch, avatars typically don't mean anything. You were the one with the dog, right? So fine, I'll change my avatar, all right?Also, here is a webcomic that kind of shows how a lot of science and paranoia work together:I like the avatar. And the comic you posted actually is pretty good.I think that you'd probably get a better response if you could articulate why creationist theology is both plausible and likely. I know that you've met McLeroy (apparently more than once), and I'm sure that you have listened to more of his arguments to this effect than most folks in the world. You're right that this news story is very clearly one-sided...so make McLeroy's case, make it dispassionately, and engage in intellectually honest appraisal of its strengths and weaknesses.One way or the other, though, don't let other peoples' incivility incite incivility from yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 And the bible can?No. Furthermore, I did not mean to imply that. I am not Christian. I merely have an interest in philosophy and a tendency for classical sophistry. It disappoints me to no end that the philosophy of science is not taught in conjunction with and as a fundamental precept of the academic study of scientific fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 And the bible can? Not if your a bozo in public office. Glad your in love with the guy irontiger but all your doing is reinforcing my belief that most hard core christiians are hypocrites.First off, "Lunatic", those sayings are completely untrue. McLeroy isn't a "bozo", I'm not "in love", and I didn't "reinforce" your belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Also, some of us read information before it is filtered through the newswire/press release... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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