Greyhound Bus Station At 2121 Main St.

[j_cuevas713]

2 hours ago, CREguy13 said:

That's my point.  These have always been private projects and I think they can raise the funds relatively quickly.  Never let dollars that want to find a home remain on the sidelines..

That's been one of my biggest issues with this whole 45 re-route. Those renders showing the cap park, etc is all conceptual with no source of funding.

Edited January 18 by j_cuevas713

[kennyc05]

3 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

That's been one of my biggest issues with this whole 45 re-route. Those renders showing the cap park, etc is all conceptual with no source of funding.

Yeah but there is a ton of money in this city I think it'll definitely happen.

[Houston19514]

13 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

That's been one of my biggest issues with this whole 45 re-route. Those renders showing the cap park, etc is all conceptual with no source of funding.

TxDOT has made it very clear from the beginning and over and over and over, that they are not funding the cap parks.  

[CREguy13]

2 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

Yeah but there is a ton of money in this city I think it'll definitely happen.

1000%. Too many downtown corporations, local foundations, and uber-wealthy Houstonians that will be interested in naming rights and want to play a significant role in a transformational project for the city.  

[kennyc05]

1 hour ago, CREguy13 said:

1000%. Too many downtown corporations, local foundations, and uber-wealthy Houstonians that will be interested in naming rights and want to play a significant role in a transformational project for the city.  

Yep after I win the Powerball tonight I may even contribute! 😁

[houstontexasjack]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:35 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

That's been one of my biggest issues with this whole 45 re-route. Those renders showing the cap park, etc is all conceptual with no source of funding.

My understanding is that TXDOT is paying for the construction of the deck over the freeway. Landscaping, other items would need to be funded separately, but the deck is the big-ticket expense.

 

Edit: Page 5 of the Record of Decision references the cap construction:

“The Selected Alternative provides a structural “cap” over the proposed depressed lanes of I‐45 and US 59/I‐69 from approximately Commerce Street to Lamar Street. There would also be a structural cap over the depressed lanes of US 59/I‐69 between approximately Main Street and Fannin Street, and in the area of the Caroline Street/Wheeler Street intersection. Future use of the structural cap areas for another purpose would require additional development and funding by entities other than TxDOT.”

http://www.ih45northandmore.com/docs14/NHHIP_RecordofDecision/NHHIP Record of Decision - Body.pdf

 

 

Edited January 20 by houstontexasjack

[004n063]

1 hour ago, houstontexasjack said:

My understanding is that TXDOT is paying for the construction of the deck over the freeway. Landscaping, other items would need to be funded separately, but the deck is the big-ticket expense.

 

Edit: Page 5 of the Record of Decision references the cap construction:

“The Selected Alternative provides a structural “cap” over the proposed depressed lanes of I‐45 and US 59/I‐69 from approximately Commerce Street to Lamar Street. There would also be a structural cap over the depressed lanes of US 59/I‐69 between approximately Main Street and Fannin Street, and in the area of the Caroline Street/Wheeler Street intersection. Future use of the structural cap areas for another purpose would require additional development and funding by entities other than TxDOT.”

http://www.ih45northandmore.com/docs14/NHHIP_RecordofDecision/NHHIP Record of Decision - Body.pdf

 

 

Is it just the cap that ends at Lamar? Or will the highway reemerge there as well? (Would be weird, since it goes right back below grade like three blocks later...)

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

My understanding is that TXDOT is paying for the construction of the deck over the freeway. Landscaping, other items would need to be funded separately, but the deck is the big-ticket expense.

 

Edit: Page 5 of the Record of Decision references the cap construction:

“The Selected Alternative provides a structural “cap” over the proposed depressed lanes of I‐45 and US 59/I‐69 from approximately Commerce Street to Lamar Street. There would also be a structural cap over the depressed lanes of US 59/I‐69 between approximately Main Street and Fannin Street, and in the area of the Caroline Street/Wheeler Street intersection. Future use of the structural cap areas for another purpose would require additional development and funding by entities other than TxDOT.”

http://www.ih45northandmore.com/docs14/NHHIP_RecordofDecision/NHHIP Record of Decision - Body.pdf

 

 

TxDOT’s contribution to the park by funding the structural cap is nothing to sneeze at.

Anyone who thinks that TxDOT should fund the actual park itself, and that the absence of funding is somehow an indicator that it won’t be built, just has zero idea how these things work. I wouldn’t be surprised if TxDOT can’t even fund such things legally as part of its enabling legislation. Even if it could, I can understand from a policy perspective why they wouldn’t want to get into that business. The federal monies going to this project are restricted, too. I think the Infrastructure Bill may provide some more flexible funding options.

[kennyc05]

6 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

TxDOT’s contribution to the park by funding the structural cap is nothing to sneeze at.

Anyone who thinks that TxDOT should fund the actual park itself, and that the absence of funding is somehow an indicator that it won’t be built, just has zero idea how these things work. I wouldn’t be surprised if TxDOT can’t even fund such things legally as part of its enabling legislation. Even if it could, I can understand from a policy perspective why they wouldn’t want to get into that business. The federal monies going to this project are restricted, too. I think the Infrastructure Bill may provide some more flexible funding options.

I wonder why they didn't mention the Almeda cap.

[Houston19514]

On 1/20/2023 at 12:02 PM, kennyc05 said:

I wonder why they didn't mention the Almeda cap.

I don’t think there is an Almeda cap

[kennyc05]

9 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I don’t think there is an Almeda cap

Well near Almeda.

 

 

I think you're right I'm calling the Cleburne cap the Almeda cap. 

Edited January 22 by kennyc05

[Houston19514]

5 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

Well near Almeda.

 

 

I think you're right I'm calling the Cleburne cap the Almeda cap. 

I'm not 100% certain, but I think that is from an earlier plan and that cap was deleted from the FEIS/ROD plan.  I don't think Cleburne even goes over the freeway in the FEIS/ROD plan.

[004n063]

30 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I'm not 100% certain, but I think that is from an earlier plan and that cap was deleted from the FEIS/ROD plan.  I don't think Cleburne even goes over the freeway in the FEIS/ROD plan.

So will it continue to go under? Or will it dead-end? The latter would be kind of a pain for 3W-Midtown/Ion access...

Edit: "it" being Cleburne

Edited January 22 by 004n063

[kennyc05]

36 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I'm not 100% certain, but I think that is from an earlier plan and that cap was deleted from the FEIS/ROD plan.  I don't think Cleburne even goes over the freeway in the FEIS/ROD plan.

Yeah you might be right but I thought it was still in the plans.

[Houston19514]

Interactive map here:  https://www.txdot.gov/nhhip.html

[004n063]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Interactive map here:  https://www.txdot.gov/nhhip.html

I, uh, I mean I totally understood that map and all, but maybe you could like explain it for like other people who like maybe didn't?

(But seriously - what is happening to Cleburne?)

[houstontexasjack]

3 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I, uh, I mean I totally understood that map and all, but maybe you could like explain it for like other people who like maybe didn't?

(But seriously - what is happening to Cleburne?)

Cleburne is not included in TXDOT’s current plans. I do not think it will end up being included. The City of Houston’s MOU contains language that “TXDOT remains committed to evaluating the feasibility” of extending Cleburne across I-69, among a number of endeavours:

https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/nhhip/docs_pdfs/NHHIP-TxDOT-COH-MOU-Executed-English.pdf

(see (e)(iii)(3) on pg. 12 of the attached)

That’s very nice lawyerese to say something nice without any binding commitment to it.

 

[004n063]

7 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

Cleburne is not included in TXDOT’s current plans. I do not think it will end up being included. The City of Houston’s MOU contains language that “TXDOT remains committed to evaluating the feasibility” of extending Cleburne across I-69, among a number of endeavours:

https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/nhhip/docs_pdfs/NHHIP-TxDOT-COH-MOU-Executed-English.pdf

(see (e)(iii)(3) on pg. 12 of the attached)

That’s very nice lawyerese to say something nice without any binding commitment to it.

 

But what does "not included" mean? Currently, it runs under 59 - will that segment of 59 remain elevated? Or will it be below grade but eliminate the Cleburne crossing?

[Houston19514]

14 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I, uh, I mean I totally understood that map and all, but maybe you could like explain it for like other people who like maybe didn't?

(But seriously - what is happening to Cleburne?)

 

3 hours ago, 004n063 said:

But what does "not included" mean? Currently, it runs under 59 - will that segment of 59 remain elevated? Or will it be below grade but eliminate the Cleburne crossing?

So... I'm thinking you didn't understand the map.  No worries. I'm happy to explain it for like people who like maybe didn't understand it.  😇

I-69 will be below grade at Cleburne.  In the plan shown on the interactive map (which I believe is the current FEIS/ROD plan), the Cleburne crossing is eliminated.   But it is not accurate to say Cleburne dead ends; Just a very minor detour.  I recall reading about this when they made these changes earlier in the process, but don't recall the exact details.  Something about the roadway geometry, maybe the I-69 roadway is not quite deep enough at that exact point...  I'll see if I can dig out that information.

But it's not as if Cleburne is a major thoroughfare.

Edited January 23 by Houston19514

[004n063]

2 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

So... I'm thinking you didn't understand the map.  No worries. I'm happy to explain it for like people who like maybe didn't understand it.  😇

I-69 will be below grade at Cleburne.  In the plan shown on the interactive map (which I believe is the current FEIS/ROD plan), the Cleburne crossing is eliminated.   But it is not accurate to say Cleburne dead ends; Just a very minor detour.  I recall reading about this when they made these changes earlier in the process, but don't recall the exact details.  Something about the roadway geometry, maybe the I-69 roadway is not quite deep enough at that exact point...  I'll see if I can dig out that information.

But it's not as if Cleburne is a major thoroughfare.

Yep, definitely didn't understand the map! You're right that Cleburne is not a major thoroughfare, but it's the best bike route from Midtown to 3rd Ward. 

Just gonna have to manifest that Wheeler Bikeway, I guess!

[houstontexasjack]

2 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Yep, definitely didn't understand the map! You're right that Cleburne is not a major thoroughfare, but it's the best bike route from Midtown to 3rd Ward. 

Just gonna have to manifest that Wheeler Bikeway, I guess!

Blodgett is supposed to be getting bike lanes, although that is a bit further south.

[004n063]

5 hours ago, houstontexasjack said:

Blodgett is supposed to be getting bike lanes, although that is a bit further south.

You mean as part of the METRORapid plan? I'm not gonna hold my breath on full MUPs on that segment. But yeah, there'll be workarounds. Maybe they'll extend the Alabama ones.

[houstontexasjack]

11 hours ago, 004n063 said:

You mean as part of the METRORapid plan? I'm not gonna hold my breath on full MUPs on that segment. But yeah, there'll be workarounds. Maybe they'll extend the Alabama ones.

The bike lanes I’m aware of are part of a plan from the City of Houston:

https://www.letstalkhouston.org/third-ward-bikeways

 

[IntheKnowHouston]

On 12/31/2022 at 4:38 AM, IntheKnowHouston said:

The 2121 Main St property in Midtown recently changed hands, according to county records.

Taconic Asset Trust acquired the site of the Greyhound Bus terminal. It was purchased from Firstgroup Service Inc. (or may be spelled First Group Service Inc.) some time this month.

 

On 1/12/2023 at 2:34 AM, IntheKnowHouston said:

 

Walking Houston and @CREguy13 are correct. 2121 Main St, the site of the Greyhound Bus terminal / Central DDE Autobuses is on the market.

I'm assuming Taconic Asset Trust, a trust affiliated with Stamford, Connecticut-based Twenty Lake Holdings, is the seller? County records indicate Taconic Asset Trust purchased the property in December, or at least it was added to the county's database that month.

Realty News Report published news of the listing two days ago:


"The bus station property, 2121 Main, is now for sale. It’s 1.4 acres on a block bounded by Main, Fannin, Gray and Webster streets, a half-block south of the Pierce Elevated."

"The site offers 'a unique opportunity to be part of a major Midtown upgrade,' says a sales brochure from Cushman & Wakefield."


https://realtynewsreport.com/bus-station-departure-could-transform-midtown/
 

 

On 1/12/2023 at 3:42 AM, IntheKnowHouston said:

2121 Main St is listed on Loopnet. I missed it before. The Loopnet listing appears as 2121 Main St, League City in Google search results. But clicking on the link directs to the listing for 2121 Main St, Houston.

 

Included in the listing:

A unique opportunity to be part of a major Midtown upgrade.

The Greyhound Bus Station, originally built in 1979, is now available.

Located where Midtown and Downtown Houston intersect, the site has excellent access by way of the METRO Rail Red Line connecting all the way to the Texas Medical Center, or by the major thoroughfares bordering the tract: Main St., Fannin St., Webster St., and Gray St.

Midtown has experienced a continued transformation, which will be amplified by the transition from the Greyhound Bus Station to its future use. New developments surrounding the site include residential high rises, mid-rise multifamily, grocers, restaurants, and bars, creating an all-encompassing experience to live, work, and play. 



Property details:

• Land Acres: 1.43 AC
   
• Building Size: 30,797 SF
   
• ±1.44 acres in the heart of Midtown, includes existing Greyhound Bus
  Station building, which is ±33,053 SF
   
•  Situated on the METRO Light Rail Main Line, the property is three
  blocks either direction to a Metro Station. The tract has 2 curb cuts
  on Main St. and 4 curb cuts on Fannin St.
   
• Greyhound leaseback expires October 2024, positioning the property 
  as a covered land play. The Property is ripe for redevelopment or
  adaptive reuse, utilizing the unique space of the existing station.
  Potential uses may include multifamily, office, retail, hospitality, mixed
  use, or specialty uses. 

 

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/2121-Main-St-Houston-TX/27469813/

https://images1.loopnet.com/d2/MTylAm4BFq33zCLhuZa5sVqud1aPFWuwo_UmtQz18GQ/Marketing BrochureFlyer.pdf

 

Houston Public Media reports on the Greyhound bus station property. The tract at 2121 Main St is for sale.

I'm still waiting for coverage from Houston Chronicle or the local news stations.


https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/infrastructure/2023/01/25/442271/an-old-bus-station-for-sale-could-transform-the-area-between-houstons-midtown-and-downtown/ 

[IntheKnowHouston]

Houston Chronicle finally reports the listing of the Greyhound bus station site at 2121 Main St.


"Cushman didn’t disclose the list price of the property, but it has an appraised value of $7.7 million and includes a 33,000 square-foot Greyhound building, according to Harris County Central Appraisal District records."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/greyhound-mcdonalds-midtown-houston-skypark-pierce-17742026.php

[McD.land]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:15 AM, IntheKnowHouston said:

Houston Chronicle finally reports the listing of the Greyhound bus station site at 2121 Main St.


"Cushman didn’t disclose the list price of the property, but it has an appraised value of $7.7 million and includes a 33,000 square-foot Greyhound building, according to Harris County Central Appraisal District records."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/real-estate/article/greyhound-mcdonalds-midtown-houston-skypark-pierce-17742026.php

It is listed for $11 M. Greyhound has a lease that runs through Oct of 2024.

[JLWM8609]

No other neighborhoods understandably want the hot potato that Greyhound represents. Where would it be relocated to? My money is on somewhere east of Downtown along the Green Line that could be developed similarly to what Austin has done with the new Mobility Hub that serves CapMetro, CARTS, and Greyhound. It's like METRO's old Intermodal station on a smaller scale. 

[Kinglyam]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:05 PM, JLWM8609 said:

No other neighborhoods understandably want the hot potato that Greyhound represents. Where would it be relocated to? My money is on somewhere east of Downtown along the Green Line that could be developed similarly to what Austin has done with the new Mobility Hub that serves CapMetro, CARTS, and Greyhound. It's like METRO's old Intermodal station on a smaller scale. 

Or the same place they were talking about putting the high-speed rail, Northwest Mall? That seems like a prime choice. It's not like the municipalities are particularly interested in interconnecting mass transit. The people who tend to use Greyhound aren't exactly a very politically influential demographic, either.

[McD.land]

They are moving to a curbside concept, potentially operating out of retail/hotel type locations, and not a full size "station".

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:14 PM, McD.land said:

They are moving to a curbside concept, potentially operating out of retail/hotel type locations, and not a full size "station".

that works very well for Megabus. 

[samagon]

it also works great for Vonlane.

 

I was in Corpus Christi this weekend and the old Greyhound bus station was turned into a bar called "BUS" pretty cool concept, but that bus station was a lot smaller than Houston's and I'm sure when they bought it, it was a lot cheaper.

[corbs315]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

it also works great for Vonlane.

 

I was in Corpus Christi this weekend and the old Greyhound bus station was turned into a bar called "BUS" pretty cool concept, but that bus station was a lot smaller than Houston's and I'm sure when they bought it, it was a lot cheaper.

Or The Grey in Savannah

[Brooklyn173]

There are a bunch of bus stations closing, each creating its own impact.

https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/news/Greyhound-bus-station-closures-create-problems-intercity-bus-riders/643419/

[Brooklyn173]

I'm not sure where this post should go, so I'll put it here. Admin, please feel free to move this as appropriate.

But, according to some people who seemed involved with the testing, the old Megabus site near the Metro Downtown Transit Center will become a layover area for Metro buses. I often see buses idling on Travis and Milam before the afternoon rush, so I am hoping that these are the buses that will use the new layover area.

The picture below was taken today (Aug 15, 2023) as they were testing turning radii and operation plans. I'm not sure when it'll go into full operation.