What To Do With A Bob Bailey Photograph?

[editor]

One of the members of HAIF has made a generous donation: An original Bob Bailey photograph.

It's an aerial view of downtown Houston taken in 1936. On the back it's numbered and has a stamp with the Yale Street studio address. The black-and-white photograph is about 11"x14".

The photo was given to this person as a gift by Bob Bailey himself a couple of weeks before he died in 1971.

By question to the group is -- What do you think I should do with this picture?

My first instinct is to scan it and post it here for everyone to enjoy. But there may be copyright issues with that. Does anyone have any theories about where the copyright on Bob Bailey Studios photographs currently lies?

If I'm not able to post it here, or even if I can, what else should I do with this photo? I'd like to do what I can to make sure the largest number of people get the most enjoyment from it.

Thoughts?

(One other note -- I'm going to keep the donor anonymous right now. You know who you are and if you wish to be acknowledged, feel free to add a message to this thread.)

[sevfiv]

Good question about the copyright - the huge collection that the Center for American History at UT Austin received lists copyrights held by the Center. Individual photographs might be held by the estate of Bob Bailey (if there is one). I would contact the CAH to see if they have any information..

http://www.cah.utexas.edu/about/contact.php

[tmariar]

Based on past posts on Bob Bailey threads, it sounds to me like the copyright would be held either by (1) U.T. (most likely), or (2) the family trust that someone mentioned sold the photographs to U.T. U.T.'s CAH should know.

It's possible the photo was never copyright-protected, or is no longer copyright-protected. See this page, plus at least the couple of pages that follow it (click on Next at the bottom of the page).

My vote on how to use the photo if it's not copyright-protected:

(1) Make a high-quality digital copy available in its original size, in its original form (i.e., no watermarks), somewhere on HAIF, making clear you're not claiming copyright protection, requesting attribution, etc. When it comes to historic photos, use-restrictions are obstacles to teaching (and hence learning) about the historic subject matter. So much of Houston's history - too much - is already obscure or gone for good.

(2) If U.T. doesn't have the negative (they probably do), offer the photo to U.T. so that it can join the bulk of the collection, and so that it can be properly archived and preserved. (I'm still puzzled as to why U.T. - a public educational institution - doesn't allow copying of the Bailey photos they've posted online, but will readily admit that posting them online is more than some people would have done with them. Plus, I'm guessing that they have archivists who know how to preserve the photos properly.)

I know you may not actually do the above, but thanks for asking for our input.

If you're not able to post the photo, and U.T. already has the negative archived, and you personally feel like doing something more with the photo than just hanging it on your wall, you could always use it as a prize for a HAIF contest. Best post on Houston history (or Houston architecture) over a certain period... best user-created map of downtown Houston circa 1936... something like that.

[sevfiv]

I would also recommend, if it isn't already, sleeving it in something like polypropylene or Melinex (like this).

Good suggestions above - and if you make a fair attempt at locating a copyright holder with no luck (and say so), that's sufficient (until someone that legitimately holds it asks you to take it down). That's another thing - folks that claim copyright sometimes don't necessarily have it..

[editor]

There are a few things about the picture that puzzle me.

On the back is stamped:

[musicman]

at the website it says

Publication restrictions apply. The Dolph Briscoe Center for American History holds copyright to materials in this collection. Please contact the Photographs Archivist for information regarding publication of images from the Bob Bailey Studios Photographic Archive.

If this was from the late son who continued the studio and not from the first Bob Bailey, and this photo happened to be printed in the studio's final year, then the 67-year claim would still put the studio opening at 1930.

it was his younger bro marvin according to this

[TJones]

I was under the impression that after 50 yrs. copyrights no longer have effect. You can do with it as you like as long as you give props. You aren't trying to make money on it, you are providing a service to this community.

Edited April 6, 2009 by TJones

[sevfiv]

Older items can be tricky..

From the Copyright Office:

Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured either on the date a work was published with a copyright notice or on the date of registration if the work was reg

[musicman]

i believe i have a copy of this picture too if it's the one i'm thinking. dot's on 45 also has a fantastic enlarged copy, with everything watercolored in.

[editor]

I was under the impression that after 50 yrs. copyrights no longer have effect. You can do with it as you like as long as you give props. You aren't trying to make money on it, you are providing a service to this community.

No, that hasn't been true since the 60's. It changed in the 70's, and it was lengthened again in 2002.

Here's a nice chart that spells out the current (sad IMO) situation.

For most things being created right now, it's 70 years after the death of the creator. Or if the copyright belongs to a company, then it's 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation.

[Jeebus]

Could a small watermarked version at least be posted for us to see what you've been given?

Edited April 6, 2009 by Jeebus

[marmer]

or see if you can find it at CAH and post a link.

[editor]

or see if you can find it at CAH and post a link.

This is the photograph it most closely resembles, but isn't.

The photograph I have is clearly a much earlier view of Houston. City Hall park is still trees, not a fountain. The Esperson Building expansion hasn't happened yet. And there are far fewer buildings downtown. In fact, there's leafy green residential-style development all the way up to City Hall and Union Station.

There's several buildings I'm curious about.

One looks like a big flat warehouse on a block bounded by Texas, Smith, and Preston (Bagby ends at Rusk, Prairie ends at Smith, there is no Memorial Drive). The building actually extends across Buffalo Bayou to a big open area that slopes down to the water, possibly for unloading goods from barges.

And Tranquility Park looks like a farm.

There is a series of 1930's aerials on the UT web site. I suspect this photo is from that excursion. If that's the case, then the copyright is owned by UT's Center for American History. Not every photo in the archive is viewable online.

I think it's pretty clear that the photo is copyright encumbered. So the question remains -- what to do with it? Give it away in a contest is the obvious answer, but I'd like to do something better and more meaningful than that.

[editor]

I received an e-mail with a contact name and e-mail address for someone at the Center for American History who might be able to help us with this. I've sent her an e-mail. We'll see what happens.

It would be cool to scan the image and then superimpose a Google map over it to see how things have changed.

[editor]

I got a response from UT already (that was quick!). I can show it on HAIF if I fill out a bunch of paperwork and send them some money. I'm working on the paperwork now.

[marmer]

I got a response from UT already (that was quick!). I can show it on HAIF if I fill out a bunch of paperwork and send them some money. I'm working on the paperwork now.

Well, I hope you don't have to send them too much money just to show us the photo.

Anyway, the building over Buffalo Bayou sounds like that brewery or ice company that had a building over the bayou. Apparently it was destroyed during the big 1930's flood and stayed a picturesque ruin for decades until someone built it out as a modern residence. I remember it being discussed on this forum a coupla years ago.

Edit: This thread.

Edited April 7, 2009 by marmer

[editor]

Well, I hope you don't have to send them too much money just to show us the photo.

Anyway, the building over Buffalo Bayou sounds like that brewery or ice company that had a building over the bayou. Apparently it was destroyed during the big 1930's flood and stayed a picturesque ruin for decades until someone built it out as a modern residence. I remember it being discussed on this forum a coupla years ago.

I know the building you're talking about, but the one in the photo is waaaaay larger than that. It covers two or three city blocks. Unless the remaining building along 45 is just a small part of what was once a larger complex.

[marmer]

I know the building you're talking about, but the one in the photo is waaaaay larger than that. It covers two or three city blocks. Unless the remaining building along 45 is just a small part of what was once a larger complex.

In the thread I posted above, brucesw says:

This building was discussed on the January GHPA 'Downtown Historic Waterfront' tour (not to be confused with the Market Square tour coming up in April). It was part of the huge Houston Ice and Brewing Co. complex which spanned Buffalo Bayou. Much of the brewery complex on the south side of the bayou was washed away in a great flood in 1935; part of this building fell into the bayou.

So it probably is the same.

[editor]

In the thread I posted above, brucesw says:

So it probably is the same.

I'm not much on reading today. Sorry for the needless redundancy.

[editor]

I sent the paperwork in. If anyone wants to help defray the cost of licensing the copyright, you can PayPal $3 to main@artefaqs.com

[Jeebus]

What's the total cost? I'm feeling generous today.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Jeebus

[AmbroseBierce]

I remember Marvin Bailey. Nice guy.

The Bailey's shop on Yale was simply a feast for the Houston history buff. I spent many pleasant hours there. Bought a few prints, but they were very expensive.

[editor]

What's the total cost? I'm feeling generous today.

Nevermind. UT just sent me the invoice with a note stating that since HAIF isn't a charity, they jacked up the price to double what they originally said it would be.

So it looks like no one is going to get to see this piece of history.

Good job, library!

[sevfiv]

Yeah, corporate rates are usually double the nonprofit rate. Too bad - can you tell us the invoiced cost?

[editor]

Yeah, corporate rates are usually double the nonprofit rate. Too bad - can you tell us the invoiced cost?

$50.

[sevfiv]

$50.

That seems about right (for one-time reproduction, though).

Copyright stinks when it come to stuff like this (as in a second/third/etc owner of materials owning copyright).

[editor]

That seems about right (for one-time reproduction, though).

Copyright stinks when it come to stuff like this (as in a second/third/etc owner of materials owning copyright).

Yeah. I think once someone dies, things should loosen up. But imagine the anarchy the world would be in today if the works of Kurt Cobain and Walt Disney were available to all. It would be absolute mayhem. It's better that they be locked up and controlled by people who had absolutely nothing at all to do with creating them. It's for our own good.

When I die, I hope my pictures end up doing the world some good. Not stuck in a library where geography permits only a few people to access them. But put someplace (internet?) where they can do the most good.

[Jeebus]

So $50 bucks to see the photo? Dang.

[Subdude]

This is the photograph it most closely resembles, but isn't.

The photograph I have is clearly a much earlier view of Houston. City Hall park is still trees, not a fountain. The Esperson Building expansion hasn't happened yet. And there are far fewer buildings downtown. In fact, there's leafy green residential-style development all the way up to City Hall and Union Station.

There's several buildings I'm curious about.

One looks like a big flat warehouse on a block bounded by Texas, Smith, and Preston (Bagby ends at Rusk, Prairie ends at Smith, there is no Memorial Drive). The building actually extends across Buffalo Bayou to a big open area that slopes down to the water, possibly for unloading goods from barges.

That was the old city market. It was there from 1928 until the 1950s and was indeed built over the bayou. The Wortham was eventually built on the site.

[sevfiv]

These two digital tools from the Copyright Advisory Network are pretty neat:

Copyright slider:

http://librarycopyright.net/digitalslider/

and the Section 108 spinner:

http://www.librarycopyright.net/108spinner/