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HOUSTON TEA PARTY!


Disastro

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These folks weren't on the scene up until just recently, so it strikes me as though the vast majority of them are not pushing for the kind of reduction in size of the government that Jax suggested.

I disagree there --- some of the rhetoric I hear is very clear: no entitlements for anyone who hasn't earned them. That means Medicaid, for starters, what is loosely called 'welfare', and specifically any social service for anyone who can't produce proof of citizenship. We could throw the incumbents out, overhaul all social policy and make it a zero sum game, but I don't think the tea party, or anyone else, would like the results to the economy. The GDP probably won't respond well to mass deportations. And worse yet to the protectionist policies that tend to go hand in hand. And, even after all that, we would probably still have to raise taxes in order to erase the deficit (which would grow due to misguided protectionism).

Or, it could be that a lot of excitable people have let themselves get whipped into protest shape by highly skilled, paid propagandists, and aren't quite sure what it is they're protesting and why. I have no problem with the desire to be angry and be heard, in fact I'm quite a fan of rabble rousing, but I think the message needs a lot of work. It's all over the map. Taxes? Spending? 'Isms'? Immigration? Anti-Obama? All those sentiments were expressed today, based on the news coverage I saw.

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I'm not sure I agree with you that war spending had little to do with the economic recovery after WWII, and I'm not sure the plague in the 1300s is a good example. The economy of Europe was completely different 700 years ago.

An economy is simply what occurs when labor is mixed with capital and land. That much applies to the present day as well as has throughout the history of civilizations. Kill off some significant fraction of a population and there's more of everything to go around, improving per capita wealth until the consequent increase in fertility causes things to revert to the equilibrium state. It's a tried and true pattern.

There are some aspects of post-war government spending that contributed to long-term post-war economic growth, the G.I. Bill for instance. Improvement of the productivity of labor is good policy. But that is long-term policy, not the sort of thing that cures a Depression. The increased production of armaments for wartime does nothing to increase the wealth of a nation. Actually, in WW2, it required extreme rationing of all kinds of consumer and industrial goods. It made us poorer as a nation. There are threads on HAIF that discuss the local history of all this, if you're interested.

I didn't hear any opposition when Bush went through with the first bailout. Maybe it was there but more quiet or something. There certainly weren't protests on the street where Republicans held up signs claiming that Bush was a Maoist or Hitler.

Then you weren't listening. It wasn't very well aligned with either political party, really, involving some very strange political bedfellows out of both libertarians and populists. I certainly put in my share of complaints about the Bush stimulus programs.

There weren't any protests (that I'm aware of), but that doesn't mean that people weren't getting pissed off. The first TEA Party happened after Obama's huge stimulus package went through, but to say that this was just the result of people pissed off that he won seems to oversimplify the issue. By my observation, these people were already pissed off. They didn't like Bush's policy, and they liked Obama's even less. So they held a bunch of poorly-organized nationwide rallies. As for the hateful signage, Obama was the sitting President, so their signage targeted the sitting President, not the now-powerless guy that used to be President. And while most of the signage was mundane, there were folks out there on the extremes, and they have a knack for making themselves visible.

...but as I pointed out on HAIF in disappointment after I went to the first TEA Party event, it was poorly coordinated, poorly marketed, and not targeted to any particular audience. The local Republicans ended up co-opting it, although by apparent accident as far as I could tell. To say that everyone there was on the same page would be a big stretch.

I've heard people suggest we cut out the department of Education, close down the Federal Reserve, end all forms of welfare (including unemployment insurance), and stop the government from funding scientific research. Maybe those are the fringe people but they seem to be pretty vocal lately.

Odd, I haven't been hearing such extreme viewpoints on those issues (except on the Chron forums, as usual). ...well aside from the anti-Fed people. They've been at it for a long, long time and at least have the support of a fair percentage of academics, but are by no means in the mainstream.

Personally, I'd like to see the tapering off and ultimate end of all Federal welfare and social programs. That's nothing that couldn't be more effectively administered at the state and local level. But I've been saying that for years, and I was pissed off with Bush for not being more aggressive towards that effect. In any case, these aren't short-term considerations; the TEA Parties are most definitely a reactionary short-term phenomena with short-term goals. I really think you're confusing their limited set of issues with some kind of broad party platform, and perhaps ascribing more unity and organization to them than has occurred. Right now, they're just a bunch of desperately pissed off capitalists.

The idea that all government spending is bad and all government programs are inefficient is as ridiculous as saying all corporations are greedy and all corporations are efficient - and that's what I keep hearing from people at these protests.

Did you go to this one or the last one?

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Recap of the Jones Plaza gathering from the Houston Press:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/20...n_tea_party.php

I was there myself, taking pictures (will post those soon). I was completely blown away by the turnout -- far more people came than I had ever anticipated -- and the diversity of the group. Helicopters were there, as expected, as were news vans and plenty of police. The crowd were all surprisingly nice, if a little wonky, and very eager to have their pictures taken.

Wasn't impressed with the choice of Walton and Johnson (the less funny Stevens and Pruitt) as emcees. Doesn't exactly lend credence to a cause to have those guys up on stage... Otherwise, the speakers I stuck around for were more or less effective, articulate speakers.

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I disagree there --- some of the rhetoric I hear is very clear: no entitlements for anyone who hasn't earned them. That means Medicaid, for starters, what is loosely called 'welfare', and specifically any social service for anyone who can't produce proof of citizenship. We could throw the incumbents out, overhaul all social policy and make it a zero sum game, but I don't think the tea party, or anyone else, would like the results to the economy. The GDP probably won't respond well to mass deportations. And worse yet to the protectionist policies that tend to go hand in hand. And, even after all that, we would probably still have to raise taxes in order to erase the deficit (which would grow due to misguided protectionism).

The first TEA Party had folks that were both for and against immigration. As I keep saying, it was not a very well-organized or well-targeted event and drew a very mixed crowd. In some ways, I think that that was the idea. I witnessed one argument where two big white middle-aged muscular guys, in attendance thinking that they were on the same side, got up in each others' faces over it. They stepped down after a tense moment, but I was wondering whether one or both were going to get violent. What had triggered the argument was that one of them was waving around an extremist sign to which the other deeply objected.

The thing about clarity is that anybody, right or wrong, can be clear. One person may say "deport all illegal immigrants" and the other might say "grant all illegal immigrants citizenship and make it easier for other immigrants to come into the country legally". They're both quite clear. If someone advocates "killing everyone over 65 years old," that's a very clear statement; it doesn't mean that everyone standing within 500 feet of them agrees.

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The description of the crowd would've been just accurate for the first TEA Party as I'm sure it was for this one. It's the second deck of an Astros game mixed with a bunch of disparate kooks.

Good work, Lomax.

Though I am sure the second deck fans are just as good, if not better, fans of the Astros than the first deck, I cannot help but chuckle at the imagery it invokes. :rolleyes:

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It's the second deck of an Astros game mixed with a bunch of disparate kooks.

:lol: Thank god I gave up my first deck seats and now will only buy seats up top, skipping the second deck all together.

Yesterday evening I was on the Allen Parkway trail and was passed by 2 vaguely douche-y guys talking about the Tea Party at Jones Plaza, saying that if someone would 'bus some hot women in' they might go next time. Gotta love free speech!

Edit--just opened the link to the Press blog. I love Lomax for the Circle Jerks reference. One of the best live bands ever.

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Though I am sure the second deck fans are just as good, if not better, fans of the Astros than the first deck, I cannot help but chuckle at the imagery it invokes. :rolleyes:

I think something that is being completely overlooked here is that the news outlets are intentionally marginalizing the entire event - not just locally, but nationwide. I did not goto the event but the people who I talked to who did go said there were way more than 3500 people there in Jones Plaza - they think the number was more along the 5000-7000. But, where did this size of a protest show up in the Chronicle? Hidden down in the city state section - not the front page of any kind. Also - watched 45 minutes of FOX26 News this morning, and there was not a single mention of the tea party protests at all.

The media wants it to appear that thousands of folks did not show up to protest Obama and his policies, despite the fact that they did. They want you to believe that the only people who went there were crazy gun toting right wing crazies. Its really sickening incredibly biased hack reporting. If 10 people show up for a Quannel X protest it draws cameras from everywhere and plays not only front page but on the news in every slot. 5-7000 people show up in downtown to protest the medias love child. Lets not show that, instead lets put "counters taking toll of dead trees in Galveston from Ike" on the Front page - WHAT A JOKE.

And for those of you who really think that CNN is more balanced - enjoy this clip of hack reporting. My favorite part is where she says its not "family viewing" What a joke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6G3fvNhdoc0...player_embedded

Organized or not, agree with the protesters points, or not - this is the media not reporting on a news worthy event becuase it is not in line with their political agenda.

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Other than a temporary Civil War revenue act, our country had NO income tax for the first 137 years of it's existence . Passage of the 16th amendment (ratified February 3, 1913) changed all that.

Also in 1913, the Federal Reserve Act was signed by Woodrow Wilson creating the Fed(as Federal as Federal Express).

Coincidence? Hardly. The elitists have controlled our country ever since.

Thanks Woodrow...you piece of crap. <_<

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Organized or not, agree with the protesters points, or not - this is the media not reporting on a news worthy event because it is not in line with their political agenda.

Just watch Fox News... they practically organized the events b/c they were in line with their anti-Obama political agenda.

I personally thought these teabagging events were stupid b/c most of these people never said a word when Bush was spending and spending. They were protesting taxes when 95% of Americans are getting tax cuts. These events were mostly just conservatives angry that Obama is President.

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Just watch Fox News... they practically organized the events b/c they were in line with their anti-Obama political agenda.

I personally thought these teabagging events were stupid b/c most of these people never said a word when Bush was spending and spending. They were protesting taxes when 95% of Americans are getting tax cuts. These events were mostly just conservatives angry that Obama is President.

I disagree. It wasn't an Obama/Bush thing, it was a accumulation of decisions made by the last congress and pessimism towards the current congress.

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Just watch Fox News... they practically organized the events b/c they were in line with their anti-Obama political agenda.

I personally thought these teabagging events were stupid b/c most of these people never said a word when Bush was spending and spending. They were protesting taxes when 95% of Americans are getting tax cuts. These events were mostly just conservatives angry that Obama is President.

Are you seriously that blind and incapable of taking notice of an event that although news worthy - gets no play because it is not on the particular news networks political agenda? No channel that did not show the protests can even partially claim to be neutral on non-bias.

The media is capable of swaying public emotion - this is a concerted effort by the media groups to marginalize an event they do not agree with. Agree with the underlying reason for the protest or not, you should be ticked off that you did not see it on the news. It was news worthy, but not shown b/c they are afraid if they show a successful anti tax/spend/socialism event more people will join the cause - but by ignoring it and marginalizing it, they are able to take the people who may be unhappy and are thinking about doing something about it and keep them at home by telling them its a small pathetic group of extremists.

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Are you seriously that blind and incapable of taking notice of an event that although news worthy - gets no play because it is not on the particular news networks political agenda? No channel that did not show the protests can even partially claim to be neutral on non-bias.

The media is capable of swaying public emotion - this is a concerted effort by the media groups to marginalize an event they do not agree with. Agree with the underlying reason for the protest or not, you should be ticked off that you did not see it on the news. It was news worthy, but not shown b/c they are afraid if they show a successful anti tax/spend/socialism event more people will join the cause - but by ignoring it and marginalizing it, they are able to take the people who may be unhappy and are thinking about doing something about it and keep them at home by telling them its a small pathetic group of extremists.

What channels are you referring to? I flipped through the channels yesterday and saw coverage of the protests on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC and CBS. Sure, some gave more coverage than others... Fox News had the most b/c they were practically sponsors.... but they all had at least some coverage.

When you say the events "got no play"... which station are you talking about that didn't air anything at all about the protests? :unsure:

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If McCain had won the Presidency and happened to be doing exactly what Obama has done so far, those protests would not have happened.

Again, I disagree. I'm not saying people aren't blaming stuff on Obama but certainly not as bad as liberals blamed EVERYTHING on Bush. Hell, if a democrat woke up with a hangover he blamed it on Bush. My beef is not with Obama himself but with the Pelosis and Franks that are doing their best to run this country into the ground. Right or wrong I believe Obama is doing his best to get our country back on track but he faces resistance from Republicans and his own party.

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What channels are you referring to? I flipped through the channels yesterday and saw coverage of the protests on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC and CBS. Sure, some gave more coverage than others... Fox News had the most b/c they were practically sponsors.... but they all had at least some coverage.

When you say the events "got no play"... which station are you talking about that didn't air anything at all about the protests? :unsure:

What was actually on the national news networks - I didnt see - though I have seen the CNN clips which made drudge and other sites which are a joke.

I was watching LOCAL news because I wanted to see what happened here locally not in other cities- I watched Fox 26 LOCAL this morning - and it was not mentioned between 6 and 6:45 when I left - though the firefighter funeral was mentioned every 3 minutes and I know the weather and traffic from here to timbucktoo.

I watched Channel 11 LOCAL news last night between 10:10 and 10:45 and it was also not mentioned once in there - Its possible I missed it there though.

I looked in the chronicle expecting front page news - as it was the biggest thing to happen yesterday in the news - and its not there - its buried in City/State as the 4th or 5th article down.

Its a concerted effort to marginalize it as if it didnt happen and to take what was shown and pick the dumbest and the worst and make them appear mainstream for the right. Its a joke.

Its important to require more from the news channels - they failed - not just a little bit, but miserably. They chose not to show it because it was not in line with their views.

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Its important to require more from the news channels - they failed - not just a little bit, but miserably. They chose not to show it because it was not in line with their views.

I understand what you are saying... the only problem I have is that the people whom I always here complaining about the "bias media" have no problem tuning into Fox News everyday which is just as bias.... just to the right as opposed to the left. If you are going to complain that much of the media ignored these teabagging events b/c they were not in line with their political views... then you must also mention that Fox News covered the events all day because they were more in line with their conservative political views.

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houston-tea-party-at-jones-plaza.3278846.36.jpg

Using children as pawns... liberals would get blasted for doing something like this. Imagine if a gay couple had their children march with them in a gay pride parade... Hannity, Limbaugh and O'reilly would be calling it child abuse.

houston-tea-party-at-jones-plaza.3278876.36.jpg

He already has you nutjob... these people are as crazy as those who think Bush blew up the Twin Towers. :wacko:

houston-tea-party-at-jones-plaza.3278859.36.jpg

But sir, with no more taxes, how would we pay for the Iraq War you most likely support... or the roads you drive on... the parks you visit... the schools your children and grandchildren go to. Who would pay to arm our troops who bravely defend this great Nation? How would we pay for the border fence? :unsure:

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I personally thought these teabagging events were stupid b/c most of these people never said a word when Bush was spending and spending. They were protesting taxes when 95% of Americans are getting tax cuts. These events were mostly just conservatives angry that Obama is President.
It's not just about taxes. What's got people truly engaged is the combination of increased spending, increased taxes, and federal intervention into the private sector. The tone of these events was more less-big-government than anti-Obama or anti-taxation.

Just an observation. All we've heard for the last 8-years was how unpopular Bush was. Yet, his unpopularity never motivated people to turn out to protest on any notable scale.

Now we keep hearing how popular Obama is. Yet, people are motivated to take to the streets and protest his actions.

Something does not add up.

Perhaps Obama won the election, but isn't as popular today as when elected. His mandate is rapidly eroding. Reminds me of Bush. Won the election. Lost his conservative mandate. Then he abandoned it. And went on to be very unpopular with both conservatives and liberals.

Truthfully, if people wanted to protest any group, it should be congress. But the president is (enivetably) a lightening rod for the public's discontent.

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I understand what you are saying... the only problem I have is that the people whom I always here complaining about the "bias media" have no problem tuning into Fox News everyday which is just as bias.... just to the right as opposed to the left. If you are going to complain that much of the media ignored these teabagging events b/c they were not in line with their political views... then you must also mention that Fox News covered the events all day because they were more in line with their conservative political views.

When you watch National news you know what your getting - You watch CNN, MSNBC, good morning america etc for the left view - you get sick of it, and then you switch to Fox to hear a more right leaning view. With the network channels you know exactly what your getting. None are neutral, all lean one way or the other.

When you watch local news you expect to just get the news - its local - they are supposed to just tell you what happened in your city, not try to spin it one way or the other. Unfortunately they did not do that - they choose to ignore and marginalize.

I was excited when I woke up this morning to see what had happened, how many attended, etc, and I got nothing, they dont have any aerial photos of the crowds, and it was just ignored. Local news just needs to report what is happening - its supposed to be geared towards the viewers - we are pretty diverse in the Houston area - Houston the city leans left, Houston the suberbs leans right, and the news choose not to report which was a clear left leaning decision, and it was truely dispicable they ignored 50% of their viewers.

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It's not just about taxes. What's got people truly engaged is the combination of increased spending, increased taxes, and federal intervention into the private sector. The tone of these events was more less-big-government than anti-Obama or anti-taxation.

Just an observation. All we've heard for the last 8-years was how unpopular Bush was. Yet, his unpopularity never motivated people to turn out to protest on any notable scale.

Now we keep hearing how popular Obama is. Yet, people are motivated to take to the streets and protest his actions.

Something does not add up.

You really think Bush's unpopularity never motivated people to turn out to protest on any notable scale?

The only reason people got out to protest yesterday on a "notable scale" is because it was a nationwide organized effort spearheaded by Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich, and corporate & billionaire-funded interest groups that was heavily promoted by Fox News. Web sites for this were being registered last year, after Obama was elected but before he'd entered office. Astroturfing.

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Just an observation. All we've heard for the last 8-years was how unpopular Bush was. Yet, his unpopularity never motivated people to turn out to protest on any notable scale.

Really?? I recall many occasions where thousands turned out to protest the Iraq War... if you were watching Fox News you probably didn't hear about it... they didn't really cover it much b/c it didn't fit into their political agenda.

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You really think Bush's unpopularity never motivated people to turn out to protest on any notable scale?

The only reason people got out to protest yesterday on a "notable scale" is because it was a nationwide organized effort spearheaded by Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich, and corporate & billionaire-funded interest groups that was heavily promoted by Fox News. Web sites for this were being registered last year, after Obama was elected but before he'd entered office. Astroturfing.

People are frustrated by ever growing government, regardless who is causing it. The "protests" merely gave people a means to express that frustration. I couldn't care less who set up the event.

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People are frustrated by ever growing government, regardless who is causing it. The "protests" merely gave people a means to express that frustration. I couldn't care less who set up the event.

Let's say Bush was still in office... a protest was being held to rally against the growing government that can now wiretap American citizens without a warrant... it's being "set up" by the ACLU with help from MSNBC and moveon.org.... would you be attending? :unsure:

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Really?? I recall many occasions where thousands turned out to protest the Iraq War... if you were watching Fox News you probably didn't hear about it...
Well, I don't have cable. So I'm not watching Fox News.

Let's keep it local. I can't think of one war protest in Houston that brought out 3,500 people. Did I forget or miss one? (quite possible!)

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Let's say Bush was still in office... a protest was being held to rally against the growing government that can now wiretap American citizens without a warrant... it's being "set up" by the ACLU with help from MSNBC and moveon.org.... would you be attending? :unsure:

If it meant doubling our taxes to have that wiretaping, than yes. Apples and oranges.

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One thing that did not go off as promised was that the politicians were supposed to attend, listen and not speak but there they were flapping their gums. That pretty much showed the non-partisan promise of these events was a farce. Guess stopping a politician from giving a speech is like herding cats, can't be done.

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