Jump to content

Science in the classroom


sevfiv

Recommended Posts

The State Board of Education is set to vote by Friday on science curriculum standards (evolution/creationism in the classroom issues):

Protesters and activists gathered nearby, fervently arguing their sides of the debate.

"My grandfather was not a monkey!" one woman shouted at a crowd before the meeting began.

Most mainstream scientists agree that weaknesses in the theory of evolution are flimsy at best. But proponents of retaining the rule complain that the standard will apply to all scientific theory while the political debate is focused on evolution.

"I'm very concerned that some of the State Board of Education members will weaken every discipline of science if they remove the strengths and weaknesses language," said Don McCall, an engineer and president of the Leander school board. "This is not about a narrow issue but about every discipline of science and engineering."

A panel of science teachers had recommended that the language be dropped. Board members are expected to propose amendments to try to change the proposal before they vote on Thursday.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...WijT9AD975LCDG0

“Religious belief is fine. Evolution and God get along fine, but it doesn't belong in the classroom,” said Claire Wuellner from the Center for Inquiry.

The board is expected to vote by Friday and it could have implications reaching far beyond the state of Texas.

This is because Texas is a vast market for textbooks, and the publishers of those textbooks tend to write to Texas standards. If Texas changes the way it looks at the issue, other states will likely follow.

If it doesn't, Kirsten Matthews, who is a fellow for Science and Technology Policy at Rice University, says it could still have an impact on the science community.

“I think it will be hard to recruit researchers in Biology and the bio medical sciences at the Texas Medical Center, especially if we have a reputation for being anti-science,” said Matthews.

It isn't a case of religion having no place in our schools she says, just not in the science classroom.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/education/s...m.6ef9670c.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

"My grandfather was not a monkey!" one woman shouted at a crowd before the meeting began.

:huh:

Too bad there wasn't a guy next to her dressed as Charleston Heston yelling "take your stinkin' paws off my home school textbooks, you damn dirty ape!"

Now that would make for good tv...

A 7 -7 vote? Jeez. Is that a win or a stay of execution?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This reminds me of the Family Guy where they mock Panic Room... Peter is telling stories, and the first one starts out with evolution. After he says "I'm obliged by the state of kansas to also tell the religious side" or something... anyways, I Dream of Genie comes out of the water, folds her arms, and blinks a bunch of animals one at a time. Then a man in a suit, a car, jesus, and santa, and they all put there hands together above their heads and move it side to side.

Hahaha!

Edit:

I think its so interesting to have both sides of completely different people, in such massive volumes. Hopefully, neither side will over step the boundries of Liberty, and Law... but I think it makes Texas unique. Conservatives & Hippies in Austin...

But that aside, I'm glad this will not be passed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't anyone worried that we have that many bible thumpers on the board trying to keep our science education constrained to the 1800's?

I am. We are the intellectual laughing stock of the world because of stuff like this. I don't even want to consider how many children are being home schooled by the "I am not a monkey" fundies. Those poor kids are being robbed of a future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't even want to consider how many children are being home schooled by the "I am not a monkey" fundies. Those poor kids are being robbed of a future.

Are they, really? Is the lack of mastery of a single (rather esoteric) concept of biology really going to rob them of a future? Was your career predicated on the reasoned understanding of how evolution occurs over hundreds of thousands of years? Somehow I doubt it.

I agree that fundies damage their kids, but I think that the greater damage is to their social skills. It's not a matter that I know how to solve, however. There will always be crappy parenting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are they, really? Is the lack of mastery of a single (rather esoteric) concept of biology really going to rob them of a future? Was your career predicated on the reasoned understanding of how evolution occurs over hundreds of thousands of years? Somehow I doubt it.

But evolution isn't an esoteric biological concept. It's the only well understood mechanism for increasing order and complexity in physics. It's fundamental to understanding just about everything in biology, and increasingly important for understanding human psychology. It made life the way it is.

And when kids get to college it can be a problem if they bring a non-scientific stumbling block like creationism or intelligent design.

To those who believe evolution to be true, why is it important to you that others believe the same? Or is it?

It isn't. It's important that kids be taught science in science class. I'm in favor of exposing kids to various creation myths, but do that in a comparative religion class. Science class is for testable theories, and evolution is a great example of those.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To those who believe evolution to be true, why is it important to you that others believe the same? Or is it?

It's not important. What's important is that you teach science, and only science, in the science classroom. You teach religion in the churches. Simple pimple. -_-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are they, really? Is the lack of mastery of a single (rather esoteric) concept of biology really going to rob them of a future? Was your career predicated on the reasoned understanding of how evolution occurs over hundreds of thousands of years? Somehow I doubt it.

I agree that fundies damage their kids, but I think that the greater damage is to their social skills. It's not a matter that I know how to solve, however. There will always be crappy parenting.

To those who believe evolution to be true, why is it important to you that others believe the same? Or is it?

Memebag answered this well, but let me add that biologists by and large consider biological evolution to be a fact. There is overwhelming evidence supporting evolution. A tangible example for us laymen is antibiotic resistance, where once reliable antibiotics no longer work because the bacteria have evolved over time to survive against the medicine. It's not exactly an esoteric concept.

People can chose to be ignorant about evolution and get through life just fine, but I still think it's rather important that students understand the basics of evolution if they are to understand the world around them. But it's all the more important for anyone seeking a career in medicine or biology.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What always amazed me is that there is so much evidence supporting evolution, and yet you have religious whackos say it's all wrong b/c there are some "missing pieces" or because it doesn't "explain everything". At the same time, is there any evidence to support what Christians believe? Any evidence the earth was created in 6 days... or that we are all decendants of Adam and Eve... or that there is a heavan and a hell?? Anything? Yet most if not all of them believe all of this 100%. :unsure: This is what happens when you drink the kool-aid. :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What always amazed me is that there is so much evidence supporting evolution, and yet you have religious whackos say it's all wrong b/c there are some "missing pieces" or because it doesn't "explain everything". At the same time, is there any evidence to support what Christians believe? Any evidence the earth was created in 6 days... or that we are all decendants of Adam and Eve... or that there is a heavan and a hell?? Anything? Yet most if not all of them believe all of this 100%. :unsure: This is what happens when you drink the kool-aid. :wacko:

No, because they have a book that explains everything, even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What always amazed me is that there is so much evidence supporting evolution, and yet you have religious whackos say it's all wrong b/c there are some "missing pieces" or because it doesn't "explain everything". At the same time, is there any evidence to support what Christians believe? Any evidence the earth was created in 6 days... or that we are all decendants of Adam and Eve... or that there is a heavan and a hell?? Anything? Yet most if not all of them believe all of this 100%. :unsure: This is what happens when you drink the kool-aid. :wacko:

Evidently, they also don't understand the scientific process, and they misunderstand what scientific theory means. Scientific theory has to be based on empirical evidence based on observation and experimentation. A scientific theory is not just some idea that somebody dreamed up.

There is a theory of gravity, which has also been observed and experimented and determined to be a fact. I don't hear anyone doubting that theory. Please, if you don't believe in these scientific theories, show some proof. Oh wait, that is what scientists do, and none has been able to disprove either one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am. We are the intellectual laughing stock of the world because of stuff like this. I don't even want to consider how many children are being home schooled by the "I am not a monkey" fundies. Those poor kids are being robbed of a future.

Have you ever watched 17/18 Kids & counting? They went to a "Creation Museum".. Had Adam & Eve sitting in the jungle with dinosaurs.

What always amazed me is that there is so much evidence supporting evolution, and yet you have religious whackos say it's all wrong b/c there are some "missing pieces" or because it doesn't "explain everything". At the same time, is there any evidence to support what Christians believe? Any evidence the earth was created in 6 days... or that we are all decendants of Adam and Eve... or that there is a heavan and a hell?? Anything? Yet most if not all of them believe all of this 100%. :unsure: This is what happens when you drink the kool-aid. :wacko:

I had a discussion with a professor at ACU (Abilene Christian University - Church of Christ), and he told me that a day to god could be millions of years for us. He also told me it would foolish for me to take these stories and not make up my own conclusion & ideas of what the story is teaching... Adam & Eve can mean many different things.

Of course, this was his views, not that of all Christians.

Did anyone see the Lucy Exhibit at the Museum of Natural Science? Quite the eye opener.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know, Niche, I don't believe I overstate the case. Based on what I've seen of fundie homeschooling, for these kids to eventually succeed at the highest level they are capable of intellectually, there is a whole lot reprogramming that has to be done. Like you said, they are also at a disadvantage socially and culturally. It's one thing for an adult to be willfully ignorant. To impose that on a developing child is wrong, IMO.

.....and actually, my knowledge of Darwin's work piqued my interest toward more in-depth study of emerging social sciences of the late 18th century (many of which grew out of the pioneering evolutionary theory). Which study in turn led me to have an affair with a professor who had been a student of a noted Harvard paleontologist who wrote a lot of books on the subject, which ultimately led to my first 'real' job because the professor's best friend was a lawyer whose wife was also a lawyer at a firm that was hiring. So, yes, I can say that there IS a connection between learning evolutionary theory and my career. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

raptorJesus-pnged.png

Disclaimer: I have my own views on this subject that I shall not divulge on at this moment. No disrespect at all to people of faith, since I am one myself. Not a fundie though, so yea...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does evolution only argue the evolution of animals, insects etc and people or does it also argue for grass, trees and other living things?

What do evolutionists say about water, the earth, galaxies and other non-living things?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does evolution only argue the evolution of animals, insects etc and people or does it also argue for grass, trees and other living things?

Evolution applies to any replicators that vary. That includes plants, animals, viruses, etc.

What do evolutionists say about water, the earth, galaxies and other non-living things?

If it replicates and varies, then it can evolve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it replicates and varies, then it can evolve.

What do you mean by vary?

So you're saying evolution does not apply to the non-living things such as the earth, galaxies etc. What then do most evolutionists believe about them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you mean by vary?

I mean change. When a cell divides, each strand of DNA becomes two, and there are variations between the original and the copies. If you watch me fold a paper airplane and fold one yourself, there will be variations.

So you're saying evolution does not apply to the non-living things such as the earth, galaxies etc. What then do most evolutionists believe about them?

First, there aren't really "evolutionists". Second, they believe whatever they believe. There is no dogma associated with evolution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, there aren't really "evolutionists".

What do you mean? I simply was implying - people who believe in evolution. I was thinking that if they were in agreement on evolution they might also be on their thoughts of non-living matter...but I could be wrong for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But evolution isn't an esoteric biological concept. It's the only well understood mechanism for increasing order and complexity in physics. It's fundamental to understanding just about everything in biology, and increasingly important for understanding human psychology. It made life the way it is.

And when kids get to college it can be a problem if they bring a non-scientific stumbling block like creationism or intelligent design.

They don't have to believe it to be able to answer the questions correctly on tests. Frankly, it isn't like a typical high school graduate knows that much about evolution, anyways. Relative to their peers, there's not a whole lot of missing material to make up for.

I'd agree that a religion-based dismissal of evolution is not conducive to some career paths. That doesn't mean that a kid is "being robbed of a future," though. There's more than one way to make a living, and most of them don't require an application of the biological concept of evolution.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Memebag answered this well, but let me add that biologists by and large consider biological evolution to be a fact. There is overwhelming evidence supporting evolution. A tangible example for us laymen is antibiotic resistance, where once reliable antibiotics no longer work because the bacteria have evolved over time to survive against the medicine. It's not exactly an esoteric concept.

People can chose to be ignorant about evolution and get through life just fine, but I still think it's rather important that students understand the basics of evolution if they are to understand the world around them. But it's all the more important for anyone seeking a career in medicine or biology.

Those biologists aren't very good scientists, then. A fact is an objective verifiable observation; a theory is a tested hypothesis that attempts to interpret the facts. The term "theory" is as appropriate for evolution as it is for cell theory, number theory, or the theory of plate tectonics.

I'm a strong proponent of requiring that people who major in natural sciences be required to take a course in the Philosophy of Science.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know, Niche, I don't believe I overstate the case. Based on what I've seen of fundie homeschooling, for these kids to eventually succeed at the highest level they are capable of intellectually, there is a whole lot reprogramming that has to be done. Like you said, they are also at a disadvantage socially and culturally. It's one thing for an adult to be willfully ignorant. To impose that on a developing child is wrong, IMO.

I've seen a few examples, and they're all over the map. Some obediently grow up just the way their parents intended, others go way off into left field.

I've got a cousin who votes Libertarian/Constitution Party every chance he gets and has memebag's career and personality, and he's been dating the home-schooled offspring of fundie parents for nearly a year. She's actually a bright girl, and very nice...though, like I've suggested, her social skills aren't very advanced. She was raised not to have premarital sex or to use birth control, but by all counts, it didn't take. She was also denied the opportunity to apply for college when she was a minor; that didn't hold her back, either, as soon as she made her own decisions. They make a good couple.

...you can lead a horse to water...

.....and actually, my knowledge of Darwin's work piqued my interest toward more in-depth study of emerging social sciences of the late 18th century (many of which grew out of the pioneering evolutionary theory). Which study in turn led me to have an affair with a professor who had been a student of a noted Harvard paleontologist who wrote a lot of books on the subject, which ultimately led to my first 'real' job because the professor's best friend was a lawyer whose wife was also a lawyer at a firm that was hiring. So, yes, I can say that there IS a connection between learning evolutionary theory and my career. :D

So you ended up working for a law firm for some period of time...but not anymore. It is not your career. Your example doesn't qualify.

Also, why do you suppose that the home-schooled child of fundie parents wouldn't become interested in some other kind of study, boink their professor, and by chance develop a career out of that? And if you don't think that kids raised as fundies won't go around boinking people once they're away from home, think again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


All of the HAIF
None of the ads!
HAIF+
Just
$5!


×
×
  • Create New...