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Midtown Bar Refuse Gay People


BryanS

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A few things...

No one is claiming victimhood.

A few things...

Yes they are. This is a quote from your email;

"I was shocked to be a victim of that kind of discrimination..."

No one is claiming "cramming a lifestyle down someone's throat."

I didn't make that statement.

No one is claiming "hate crime."

And again - I didn't make that statement

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so do the pics put out there by the owner showing the place packed. here's a good one from yelp:

As an active member of the gay and lesbian community I need to chime in here. We targeted union bar last night as part of our gay awareness program. I really don't like to do this to "known" gay friendly bars. Union is gay friendly by the way! We had all met prior Thursday at Montrose Mining Company to discuss the plan. What we do is go to a straight bar and "rush' the door. Confuse eveyone and then cause a big scene to get people aware that in 2009 Gay pride is stronger then ever. To again promote gay awareness. Sadly some of my boys took it a little to far and started yelling at the door boys and managers. I understand that they never thought 150 gay men and women would come all at once. No one was turned away as I later found out they were full and couldn't let anyone else in. Myself and Devon came back to union later that night and had a really nice time. Loved the free shots! The music was good and everyone was having a good time without the drama we had caused prior in the evening. I for one will not take part of the Gay Bar awareness program. Its hurting business and we are taking it to far. Union Bar is 1000% Gay friendly.

Union Bar on behalf of the gay and lesbian community, myself and my partner, we apologize for the nonsense and silliness we caused last night.

A few things...

No one is claiming victimhood.

No one is claiming "cramming a lifestyle down someone's throat."

No one is claiming "hate crime."

This is about equal access to a public establishment. One that was empty at 10:00 p.m., where people were stopped at the door, causing a line to form. Those people should been permitted inside, then once at capacity, then form a line.

Did you read what musicman posted?

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AGAIN, Guerilla Gay Bar is an informal gathering of gays and lesbians in normally "straight" venues.

The very fact that the ring leader called ahead and RSVPed for 50 people means it WAS NOT a Guerilla Gay Bar. Let's call it what it truly was... a political grandstanding event.

It's going to backfire and it wasn't really smart, especially since it appears that The Union has been serving gays and lesbians all along.

Also, we should be really careful about what battles we pick. There are PLENTY of GLBT bars around town that try to limit certain types of patrons.

I think The Union should organize a Secret Straight Bar night and all converge on Club Houston and demand entry as a form of retaliation. I would LOVE to see that!

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No, it really isn't. And no amount of carping by you will change that. A very large group of people attempted to protest inside of a business. They were prevented from doing so. End of story. I wouldn't allow ANY large group with an agenda inside my bar to promote their agenda. You, like this group, are ignoring that part. To make it more obvious for you, it is not racism to refuse entry to a Black man revving a chainsaw, and it is not discrimination to keep a group larger than the bar's capacity out of that bar.

Find another cause. You've lost this one miserably.

I still think it is an equal access issue. If the owner really claims that A.) he knew a bunch of gay men were going to visit his bar (and was aware of their so-called "agenda"), B.) doesn't enforce male-female ratios, and C.) doesn't discriminate based on sexual orientation, then there would be no problem. But apparently, that's not the case.

Then there were people who were there, that were subject to various exchanges (http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-bar-lounge-h...rt_by=date_desc), sample of what three different people experienced, edited to remove overtly negative comments against the bar (e.g. "bar staff is rude," "don't go there, ever" type of remarks) - go to the link to see the full text:

"Last night, a group of gay guys were denied entry. At first, we were told some bullflurf story that they wanted a high 'male to female ratio'. Eventually, the bouncer admitted that they were told to keep gay people out. SERIOUSLY. In 2009."

"A few friends and me were DENIED entry because we were gay! At first we were told it was because there were too many men inside already and they wanted to keep the women to men ratio equal, but later on the door guys told people by us it was because we were gay and they were informed to NOT let us in."

"For no reason, they wouldn't allow several of my friends in and the bar was empty. When we asked why, they just started off in to the distance like we were there, even though we had reservations. It wasn't what we were wearing, what we said or anything else that we could understand."

People were told: We're not letting you in because you are gay. NOT: Your party is too large. NOT: We don't have room (even though our bar is pretty empty right now)... NOT: You're part of a larger agenda/protest we do not agree with... Flat out told: you're gay, you're not coming in.

And then we get the obligatory fire marshal, limited capacity cover story. Gee, I've never heard that excuse before.

There seems to be quite a disconnect between what the management claims and what the doormen police in terms of enforcing gender ratios and turning away gay people.

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Did you read what musicman posted?

...yea... and other people on yelp called that a lie, regarding "planning the strike" from Montrose Mining company... that post seems too perfect in its response to be legit, IMO.

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...yea... and other people on yelp called that a lie, regarding "planning the strike" from Montrose Mining company... that post seems too perfect in its response to be legit, IMO.

Well... we'll have to wait and see how this unfolds. If there is anything to unfold.

It could have just been the bouncers being jerks... or maybe the owner didn't want party of queer coming in that night.. Either way, bfd.

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Try Ripcord about 11pm on a Saturday night. You can't swing a your feather boa without hitting a dozen Gay Gorillas. :lol:

I was going to say the same thing, but remembered that there were more bears than gorillas.

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At one time, yes. But over 4 to 6 hours... You can provide service to many more than that with people coming and going.

Again, if this person was told that they could take 50 now, and then filter in the rest... this should have been a non event...

Oh but the rain! The rain! They were left out in the rain!

If they stayed in a line outside and waited their turn to come in, as you suggest they should have, then it wouldn't have been an issue. But instead they left to go home and write some press release that is looking less and less truthful.

...uhhh... but if they refused to let you in... you don't think that would have caught anybody's attention up there in Boston? I highly doubt that.

The organizer is responsible for his small group. Which he had an RSVP for. Why can't other patrons enter the premises, after his party is seated? Is it an RSVP ONLY establishment?

Because it was at capacity. Did you miss that part earlier, or are you ignoring it?

Or, since the bar was empty at 9:45-10:00 p.m... pretty much everyone and anyone could have gone in especially since the owner now claims that he does not enforce male/female ratios or would turn anyone away due to their sexual orientation.

Again, you keep insisting on stating that the bar was empty. I think this is the second or third time. You make that statement with no evidence to back it up. Witnesses, the owner, and photos posted elsewhere on the internet, state otherwise. Why do you continue to spread this piece of misinformation?

This is about equal access to a public establishment. One that was empty at 10:00 p.m., where people were stopped at the door, causing a line to form. Those people should been permitted inside, then once at capacity, then form a line.

Again you claim it was empty with no proof. If you're going to make accusations, you should back them up. Even the original letter doesn't claim it was empty. It quotes a third-hand source as saying it was "nearly empty" 20 minutes before the group showed up.

I still think it is an equal access issue. If the owner really claims that A.) he knew a bunch of gay men were going to visit his bar (and was aware of their so-called "agenda"), B.) doesn't enforce male-female ratios, and C.) doesn't discriminate based on sexual orientation, then there would be no problem. But apparently, that's not the case.

The only one claiming that a male/female ratio was being enforced is the writer of the press release. That's not proof, that's propaganda.

You keep taking the same claims and repeating them over and over like you're trying to turn them into facts. It's better for this discussion, the gay community, the bar, and Houston as a whole, if we limit the discussion to talking about facts. Not conjecture. Not hyperbole. Not hearsay.

The more you repeat things not in evidence, the more credibility you lose, and the more damage you do to the cause this group was trying to promote.

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Then there were people who were there, that were subject to various exchanges (http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-bar-lounge-h...rt_by=date_desc), sample of what three different people experienced, edited to remove overtly negative comments against the bar (e.g. "bar staff is rude," "don't go there, ever" type of remarks) - go to the link to see the full text:

"Last night, a group of gay guys were denied entry. At first, we were told some bullflurf story that they wanted a high 'male to female ratio'. Eventually, the bouncer admitted that they were told to keep gay people out. SERIOUSLY. In 2009."

"A few friends and me were DENIED entry because we were gay! At first we were told it was because there were too many men inside already and they wanted to keep the women to men ratio equal, but later on the door guys told people by us it was because we were gay and they were informed to NOT let us in."

"For no reason, they wouldn't allow several of my friends in and the bar was empty. When we asked why, they just started off in to the distance like we were there, even though we had reservations. It wasn't what we were wearing, what we said or anything else that we could understand."

Bryan, I'm also going to cherry-pick from the same article....

I can personally guarantee everyone that Union Bar/Lounge IS gay friendly. The night in question, a reservation was made for 50 people. Perfect. That party of 50 was perfectly accomodated, no worries. But when the party of 50 turns into a party of 100... well I'm sorry, how can one be expected to accomodate that many people on such short notice. Same thing with a busy resaurant. You can't expect to "rush" the door 150 people deep
the bar was full. I'll be honest, I came out last night to see what the deal was with this "Elite" bar. It was packed at 12am. There were men, women, gay and stright have a grand time. So Union is after all a GOOD place.
Unlike the other postings here bashing Union saying that union was empty and anti-gay, It was in fact full of people, straight and gay alike. So for the few gay men who could not get in because UNION WAS PACKED TO THE WALLS, shame on you for making up such drama.
There seems to be quite a disconnect between what the management claims and what the doormen police in terms of enforcing gender ratios and turning away gay people.

There seems to be quite a disconnect between what you and the G&L community are claiming took place and what people who were actually there are saying took place.

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AGAIN, Guerilla Gay Bar is an informal gathering of gays and lesbians in normally "straight" venues.

The very fact that the ring leader called ahead and RSVPed for 50 people means it WAS NOT a Guerilla Gay Bar. Let's call it what it truly was... a political grandstanding event.

It's going to backfire and it wasn't really smart, especially since it appears that The Union has been serving gays and lesbians all along.

Also, we should be really careful about what battles we pick. There are PLENTY of GLBT bars around town that try to limit certain types of patrons.

I think The Union should organize a Secret Straight Bar night and all converge on Club Houston and demand entry as a form of retaliation. I would LOVE to see that!

Club Houston is membership only and it cost$.

This is just stupid. These people embarrass me and IMO are an embarrassment to the community. I'm all for awareness, but a mob of screaming queens is not the means to obtain it.

I haven't been to Union, but want to go now. I drive by every day. A gay bud of mine has gone and said that they're really nice and the drinks are good.

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You keep taking the same claims and repeating them over and over like you're trying to turn them into facts. It's better for this discussion, the gay community, the bar, and Houston as a whole, if we limit the discussion to talking about facts. Not conjecture. Not hyperbole. Not hearsay.

The more you repeat things not in evidence, the more credibility you lose, and the more damage you do to the cause this group was trying to promote.

For those who say "the bar was full." Yes, it was. At 12:00 a.m. But not around 10:00 p.m., based on first-hand accounts. Not hearsay. There are people who have posted on here, that were there, that indicate it was pretty thin at the beginning.

...and there are too many first-hand accounts of people being told explicitly that they were not allowed in, because they were gay. All the other conjecture and discussion really doesn't matter, in light of that fact. And those first-hand accounts were used as basis for the jointly released statement from several major LBGT rights groups, in Houston. It is hard for me to believe they would have done so otherwise, without some substantial evidence - which I have asked that they produce. Based on the volume of email I am sure they are getting... who knows if I'll hear back. I hope so.

That much, I do know.

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Bryan, I'm also going to cherry-pick from the same article....

There seems to be quite a disconnect between what you and the G&L community are claiming took place and what people who were actually there are saying took place.

You pick quotes from people who say it was full. Yes. They even said 12:00 a.m. I don't doubt that.

I pulled quotes from people who were there, that were told; you're not coming because you're gay.

Just because the gay people on HAIF were not there... many other gay non-HAIF people were. And several were told to stay out, because of their sexual orientation. I don't see any disconnect.

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I pulled quotes from people who were there, that were told; you're not coming because you're gay.

I just don't buy it...maybe "b/c you're part of the guerilla gay bar group", but not explicitly because they were gay. I know from first-hand experience (with my friends) that Union does NOT discriminate. That's good enough for me... I think enough sensible people on this board see through the BS. I think a similar-sized group made up of any cross-section of people (well, mainly men) would have encountered the same issue, especially if only 50 or so were expected to show up

Looking back on my comment about how many people were there - I was mistaken in that it was probably more like 40 at 9:15 or so when we first got there. I really wasn't keeping count, but it was probably about twice that by 10 or so. Room for a few more, yes, but it sounds like the group outside had an "all or none" mentality that could not be accomodated

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It's sounding more and more like this is a non-issue.

A group of people tried to get into a bar that was too small for the size of the group. Those who didn't get in took it as a personal affront and decided to make an issue of it. I hate to break it to you, but it happens a lot. People take things personally and try to make a racial/sex/gay issue out of it.

When I was in both radio and TV I can't tell you how many dozens of similar phone calls I've taken from people trying to make something out of nothing. They get tossed out of a movie theater for being rowdy and suddenly it's "____ movie theater hates my ethnic group!" Or a store that has a posted closing time of 6:00pm asks some browsers to hurry up and the next thing you know they're putting together letterhead for a new "community group" to put out a press release with a headline screaming "_____ Store Bans Old People!" It happens often enough that there's journalist jargon for it -- NAB, meaning Not As Billed.

Things like this, and the unchecked spread of rumors over the internet, are the things that give people like Quannel X his power and legitimacy.

I can't control the wider distribution of the original e-mail and all the fake outrage it was designed to generate. But at least here on HAIF it has been thoroughly debated and we've heard a bit from both sides. Until something new (and I mean facts, not more conjecture) arises, I think this is pretty much over.

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It's sounding more and more like this is a non-issue.

A group of people tried to get into a bar that was too small for the size of the group. Those who didn't get in took it as a personal affront and decided to make an issue of it. I hate to break it to you, but it happens a lot. People take things personally and try to make a racial/sex/gay issue out of it.

When I was in both radio and TV I can't tell you how many dozens of similar phone calls I've taken from people trying to make something out of nothing. They get tossed out of a movie theater for being rowdy and suddenly it's "____ movie theater hates my ethnic group!" Or a store that has a posted closing time of 6:00pm asks some browsers to hurry up and the next thing you know they're putting together letterhead for a new "community group" to put out a press release with a headline screaming "_____ Store Bans Old People!" It happens often enough that there's journalist jargon for it -- NAB, meaning Not As Billed.

Things like this, and the unchecked spread of rumors over the internet, are the things that give people like Quannel X his power and legitimacy.

I can't control the wider distribution of the original e-mail and all the fake outrage it was designed to generate. But at least here on HAIF it has been thoroughly debated and we've heard a bit from both sides. Until something new (and I mean facts, not more conjecture) arises, I think this is pretty much over.

I agree that it's probably a bunch of hoopla. I hope Union, being fairly new, doesn't suffer.

A real example of discrimination/harrassment would be when HFD used to raid the gay bars, back in the 80's, during local election times. It as so routine. We'd say "Hurry up, finish your drink. The Fire Marshal's here." Everyone had to leave and then they counted the occupants as we were let back in.

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I just don't buy it...maybe "b/c you're part of the guerilla gay bar group", but not explicitly because they were gay.

Consider this:

My friends and I had separate reservations than the large "guerrilla" group and we were STILL denied. It didn't matter that we weren't part of that group. We were lumped together with them because we were gay.

And YES, the door staff DID tell us they were told to not allow people who "appeared to be gay" into the club. This isn't word of mouth or hearing it from other people... we heard it from our own ears.

The latest post here: http://www.yelp.com/biz/union-bar-lounge-h...rt_by=date_desc. So here is an example of a group, not affiliated with the other, that was denied entry solely of because who they were. I do take this a first-hand account, of this particular person's experience. Not a rumor. Not second hand, third hand, etc.

I know from first-hand experience (with my friends) that Union does NOT discriminate.

But they did, that night.

Looking back on my comment about how many people were there - I was mistaken in that it was probably more like 40 at 9:15 or so when we first got there. I really wasn't keeping count, but it was probably about twice that by 10 or so. Room for a few more, yes, but it sounds like the group outside had an "all or none" mentality that could not be accomodated

And the capacity argument is also a load of bunk, as well the "all or none" mentality. Because they advertise, and I believe, that on many occasions they can, and do, fit way more into the place than 117. For example, ~2.5x that amount, according to this ad: http://www.eventective.com/USA/Texas/Houston/290780/Union-Bar-and-Lounge.html. 300 it says. They only point to their official capacity rating, when they find themselves in trouble.

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And the capacity argument is also a load of bunk, as well the "all or none" mentality. Because they advertise, and I believe, that on many occasions they can, and do, fit way more into the place than 117. For example, ~2.5x that amount, according to this ad: http://www.eventective.com/USA/Texas/Houston/290780/Union-Bar-and-Lounge.html. 300 it says. They only point to their official capacity rating, when they find themselves in trouble.

they have a patio when it's not raining which greatly increases capacity.

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I don't see any disconnect.

You've made 16 posts on this thread out of 81 total. A quick glance shows that not one poster other than yourself is buying the story. The non-believers include gays and gay supporters. Yet, you don't see a disconnect. Maybe years from now, we'll all look back and see the 'Union Bar Riot' as the beginnings of the Gay Civil Rights Revolution, but this ain't looking like Selma to me.

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Consider this:

"My friends and I had separate reservations than the large "guerrilla" group and we were STILL denied. It didn't matter that we weren't part of that group. We were lumped together with them because we were gay.... "

So here is an example of a group, not affiliated with the other, that was denied entry solely of because who they were. I do take this a first-hand account, of this particular person's experience. Not a rumor. Not second hand, third hand, etc.

Consider this:

Here is an excerpt from a post, on that same message board, by someone who was there and is openly apologizing to the bar for their behavior.

As an active member of the gay and lesbian community I need to chime in here. We targeted union bar last night as part of our gay awareness program. I really don't like to do this to "known" gay friendly bars. Union is gay friendly by the way! We had all met prior Thursday at Montrose Mining Company to discuss the plan. What we do is go to a straight bar and "rush' the door. Confuse eveyone and then cause a big scene to get people aware that in 2009 Gay pride is stronger then ever. To again promote gay awareness. Sadly some of my boys took it a little to far and started yelling at the door boys and managers. ....Myself and Devon came back to union later that night and had a really nice time. ... I for one will not take part of the Gay Bar awareness program. Its hurting business and we are taking it to far. Union Bar is 1000% Gay friendly.

Union Bar on behalf of the gay and lesbian community, myself and my partner, we apologize for the nonsense and silliness we caused last night.

So here is an example of a couple - who were affiliated with the group, and were allowed entry after the troublemakers left. They were not denied because of who they were.

I also take this as a first-hand account, of this particular person's experience. Not a rumor.

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...yea... and other people on yelp called that a lie, regarding "planning the strike" from Montrose Mining company... that post seems too perfect in its response to be legit, IMO.

Yea, as far as I can tell, it was written by a "straight" guy. :rolleyes: Bryan, you won't accept ANY explanation or other point of view for the fact that you have it set in your mind that the email you received is the ONLY truth there is.

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There's gay people in Houston? :blink:

I know, I freaked out too when I first read this thread. I added a second dead-bolt to my front and back doors though, so we should be safe!

So if a bar owner decides to "economically punish himself" but refusing to serve blacks, I suppose that would be OK too. After all, why would they even want to go to a bar owned by a racist?

Sure. I went to a barbershop once and quickly found it was very racist. I never went back. As much as I disagreed with his views, I can't see why he shouldn't be allowed to operate his private business the way he wants.

I think rules about denying customers based on any criteria should be left to state-ran business. Private business should be free to do as they see fit, as long as they pay their taxes, and follow all laws/ordinances.

I think GLBT awareness may be as high as it can possibly be. No matter how aware we are, some folks just won't ever cotton to variations on the boy-girl theme. You can force people to accept you, but you can't force them to like you.

How do you force a person to accept you?

btw, the gaydar reply made me physically lol. :)

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You've made 16 posts on this thread out of 81 total. A quick glance shows that not one poster other than yourself is buying the story. The non-believers include gays and gay supporters. Yet, you don't see a disconnect. Maybe years from now, we'll all look back and see the 'Union Bar Riot' as the beginnings of the Gay Civil Rights Revolution, but this ain't looking like Selma to me.

Nope. Don't see it.

Based on that chron article...

The aftermath played out on Facebook, too, when disgruntled invitees started two new groups. By Monday afternoon,

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Consider this:

Here is an excerpt from a post, on that same message board, by someone who was there and is openly apologizing to the bar for their behavior.

So here is an example of a couple - who were affiliated with the group, and were allowed entry after the troublemakers left. They were not denied because of who they were.

I also take this as a first-hand account, of this particular person's experience. Not a rumor.

Reject it.

That post, that musicman also posted, was rejected as false by the person mentioned in the press release (Neal) - go read his facebook page, post #1. There was no meeting at Montrose Mining Company. And that post, might as well say: $1 long necks on Wednesday! To me, is clearly a pump for the bar and too cleverly crafted in an effort to manage damage control.

There are too many other consistent accounts, from several sources, that tell otherwise, in terms of what happened outside of the establishment, around 10:00 p.m.

they have a patio when it's not raining which greatly increases capacity.

They do... wonder why the owner didn't point that out? It would have only helped his case...

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....hot off the presses... from one of the "boycott" web sites, on facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=55542124276

The Houston GLBT Political Caucus and Union Bar released the following joint statement Monday evening. Because of the resolution of this matter, this group will be shut down on Wednesday. If you wish to stay involved in the effort to work for GLBT equal rights, please visit www.thecaucus.org or become a friend of the Houston GLBT Political Caucus on Facebook. Thank you for everyone's support during the past few days. We could not have reached this resolution without you.

Union Bar Reaches Resolution With GLBT Community

Representatives from Union Bar and Lounge met with leaders from the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community Monday at the GLBT Political Caucus offices and reached a resolution that actions that led to the perception of discrimination were unintended.

"Due to a miscommunication between management of Union Bar and Lounge and the door staff, we acknowledge that actions by the door staff caused an unintended perception of discriminatory actions towards the gay and lesbian community. We wholeheartedly did not want or intend for this to happen. We also acknowledge that this unintended action caused hurt and bad feeling within the gay and lesbian community towards Union Bar and it staff. We also extend this apology to all of our regular gay and lesbian customers who may have been hurt by this misunderstanding."

"We deeply appreciate Union Bar and Lounge coming to us to clear up this incident," said Kris Banks, president of the Houston GLBT Political Caucus. "We accept Union Bar's explanation that miscommunication was at the heart of the problem. We understand that there was no discriminatory intent, but circumstances led to a strong perception that we were excluded because of our sexual orientation.'

"Our community is sensitive to discrimination, an understandable sentiment given the unfinished nature of our civil rights movement. Discrimination still exists, and should be addressed with legislation like House Bill 2215. We were happy to hear that the owners of Union Bar and Lounge are supporters of this legislation 100%."

"We are happy for resolution and call for the GLBT community to move on and continue working for equality. We urge the community to cease negative bombardment, especially highly inappropriate harassment and threats."

The Union Bar and Lounge will continue to work with the GLBT community and intends to hold a fundraiser in the near future.

i.e... the door staff didn't get the message it was OK to let the gay in that night. Unintended perception? When people were told point blank to their face you're not coming in because you're gay? Next meeting with them should be interesting...

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