editor Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 METRO APPROVES HISTORIC CONTRACT TO BUILD MORE LIGHT RAIL/CONSTRUCTION BRINGS JOBS TO HOUSTONMETRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ddi they give any kind of time line for when construction would begin or complete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jax Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I wonder if the timeline is still 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.kgb Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ddi they give any kind of time line for when construction would begin or complete?ABC News said that the construction on the East End line would begin in 30 days, the rest a bit later, as they are not as far along on the planning of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 ABC News said that the construction on the East End line would begin in 30 daysNice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgriff Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 60,000 jobs with 1.46 billion dollars. Those must be some low paying jobs. I've worked on billion dollar projects that only created around 1000 jobs and only about 30-40 of those were not temporary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 60,000 jobs with 1.46 billion dollars. Those must be some low paying jobs. I've worked on billion dollar projects that only created around 1000 jobs and only about 30-40 of those were not temporary.I think its referring to the operational jobs that it will create a need for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwcre8tive Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 These new lines will be more like modern streetcars running on the streets, right? The newer vehicles will be smaller and slower... does this mean they will sell off the current vehicles and replace them with the new ones?What's the status on the faster regional service lines in the city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 These new lines will be more like modern streetcars running on the streets, right?noThe newer vehicles will be smaller and slower... does this mean they will sell off the current vehicles and replace them with the new ones?no speed will be slower due to design criteria set by city. vehicular traffic will have priority.What's the status on the faster regional service lines in the city?are you talking county rail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwcre8tive Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 nono speed will be slower due to design criteria set by city. vehicular traffic will have priority.are you talking county rail?Ok, I was looking at this post that compared the new, smaller vehicles with the existing ones. Because they are lighter vehicles (similar to modern streetcars) running on roads it could be one reason the construction cost for all 4 lines is low. Since these trains won't be going faster than 40mph, I was wondering what progress has been made on the 28 miles of Commuter Rail discussed on Metro's Website, which would offer faster service to commuters travelling from farther out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 60,000 jobs with 1.46 billion dollars. Those must be some low paying jobs. I've worked on billion dollar projects that only created around 1000 jobs and only about 30-40 of those were not temporary.The way that these estimates work is that METRO hires a third-party consultant to evaluate how many jobs would be created/saved both directly for project-specific work (such as day labor, foremen, project engineers, administrative personnel, etc.) and also indirectly (such as those that work for materials suppliers, those that did wholesale for the materials suppliers, those that milled raw materials into intermediate products, those that transported the feedstock to the milling facility, and those that harvested the raw material). Then the consultant tries to estimate how many new or saved jobs the wages that are paid to directly or indirectly saved/created jobs will translate to when the wages are used for household consumption using some assumption about the velocity of money.It won't matter whether a job that gets counted is that of a specialist called out to work on a specific issue for one day or whether it is an administrative job that lasts the length of the project and then onward into operation. It would be more meaningful to try and report job savings/creation using hours of labor, but the results would be more difficult to inflate.A good consultant will also be sure to identify the total number of individual workers hired during the life of the project, including incidences of employee turnover which don't affect any bottom line economic impact dollar amounts but do inflate politically-important job stats.Basically, though, it's just empty trivia perpetrated by a hired third party for political purposes. METRO gets to shift criticisms based on conflict of interest away from itself and the consultant has a clause in their contract to completely nullify legal responsibility; and the more incredible the top-line figures, the more press the study gets and the more work the consultant gets for other economic impact studies conducted for political purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I think its referring to the operational jobs that it will create a need for.Part of it, yes. According to the Chronicle article:Metro officials said the contract, which was approved by an 8-0 vote, will create 60,000 jobs, including 25,000 during the initial phase of construction.That makes the estimate for operational jobs at 35,000 people. To put that in context, that's enough jobs to fill positions for half of the Texas Medical Center. ...but as I just explained, the way that these jobs are being counted is intentionally misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Ok, I was looking at this post that compared the new, smaller vehicles with the existing ones. Because they are lighter vehicles (similar to modern streetcars) running on roads it could be one reason the construction cost for all 4 lines is low. Since these trains won't be going faster than 40mph, I was wondering what progress has been made on the 28 miles of Commuter Rail discussed on Metro's Website, which would offer faster service to commuters travelling from farther out.not sure one is more modern than the other. they have the same look overall. the plan always had them running on the streets. as for construction costs, i think that is still quite subject to change. not sure any progress has been made on commuter service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgriff Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 The way that these estimates work is that METRO hires a third-party consultant to evaluate how many jobs would be created/saved both directly for project-specific work (such as day labor, foremen, project engineers, administrative personnel, etc.) and also indirectly (such as those that work for materials suppliers, those that did wholesale for the materials suppliers, those that milled raw materials into intermediate products, those that transported the feedstock to the milling facility, and those that harvested the raw material). Then the consultant tries to estimate how many new or saved jobs the wages that are paid to directly or indirectly saved/created jobs will translate to when the wages are used for household consumption using some assumption about the velocity of money.It won't matter whether a job that gets counted is that of a specialist called out to work on a specific issue for one day or whether it is an administrative job that lasts the length of the project and then onward into operation. It would be more meaningful to try and report job savings/creation using hours of labor, but the results would be more difficult to inflate.A good consultant will also be sure to identify the total number of individual workers hired during the life of the project, including incidences of employee turnover which don't affect any bottom line economic impact dollar amounts but do inflate politically-important job stats.Basically, though, it's just empty trivia perpetrated by a hired third party for political purposes. METRO gets to shift criticisms based on conflict of interest away from itself and the consultant has a clause in their contract to completely nullify legal responsibility; and the more incredible the top-line figures, the more press the study gets and the more work the consultant gets for other economic impact studies conducted for political purposes.In other words it's total B.S. There is no way it's going to create anywhere near 60,000 jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 20 miles divided into 4 lines? And if they are gonna put automobiles in the "right of way" why even bother? And how slow they are/will go. What's wrong with the buses?I am all for rail but this project seems like a waste of time. It shouldn't have to be a "commuter" rail yet, but it seems ridiculous to put so much money into it and it not be more effective in reducing commuter time & competing with car traffic. This system would make more sense on Galveston, as a touristy thing. Oh wait, they already have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 CAF USA is the manufacturer of our new trains. Which model trains will we end up with?http://www.caf.net/ingles/productos/tranvias.phpAm I correct in thinking that the Red Line trains are Siemen's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwcre8tive Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 The Metro Blog shows this one: There is a comparison between the new vehicles and current vehicles here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidegate Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I found this article incredibly annoying, not for what it said, but for what it didn't say, ie what is happening with the University Line. Seems to me that there is inherent synergy in building this line first since by almost perfectly bisecting the existing line, it suddenly opens up access to BOTH lines to riders in a substantial area of the city. Most of the other lines either tag onto the end of the existing line or, worse still don't connect to it at all (the Uptown line). Seems to me the University Line, running as it does through more affluent areas less inclined to ride rail, bore the brunt of the onslaught from the ant-light railers when they were at their most strident (Afton Oaks etc) and is languishing far behind as a result. Culberson has every right to wear that smug grin I saw in his campaign posters. As far as I can tell from the lack of information from METRO, and the lack of actual, y'know, reporting by the Chronicle, the University Line is dead on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 I found this article incredibly annoying, not for what it said, but for what it didn't say, ie what is happening with the University Line. Seems to me that there is inherent synergy in building this line first since by almost perfectly bisecting the existing line, it suddenly opens up access to BOTH lines to riders in a substantial area of the city. Most of the other lines either tag onto the end of the existing line or, worse still don't connect to it at all (the Uptown line). Seems to me the University Line, running as it does through more affluent areas less inclined to ride rail, bore the brunt of the onslaught from the ant-light railers when they were at their most strident (Afton Oaks etc) and is languishing far behind as a result. Culberson has every right to wear that smug grin I saw in his campaign posters. As far as I can tell from the lack of information from METRO, and the lack of actual, y'know, reporting by the Chronicle, the University Line is dead on the table.Nope, it's just a separate contract. METRO has stated in the past that they wouldn't move forward with the Uptown Line unless the University Line were going to be in place as a connector to the rest of the system. ...I should know better than to trust them at anything they say by now, but this just seems like such a no-brainer that even they couldn't find a way to muck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidegate Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, the fact that it's a separate contract doesn't excuse METRO from being up front with taxpayers about what's happening. I mean, I'm as pro-light rail as they come and I'm steamed about it, so I can only imagine what rail sceptics are thinking when they see METRO acting in this way. I know they have had to do battle with powerful anti-rail interests, but scattering sections of rail all over the city with little apparent thought to how they might best relate to each other in terms of the order in which they are built, is a waste of everyone's time, whether they are for light rail or against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Metro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALMSP Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 a sad day truly.............all this time of trying to figure out the university line, and now its not even included?? what a joke. Its also hard to believe that METRO still thinks they will have these lines running by 2012!!! I also dont like the idea of having the city having the say on the traffic signals and giving right-of-way to no one..........you simply wait based ont eh traffic light. going to take forever to get around town!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 What's up with these slow-moving, low capacity trains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 It looks like the CAF USA rail cars will run on the Red Line too. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/6300532.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb320 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Swamplot.com has an article and map of the latest MetroRail plans. This edition includes routes to outlying areas and the airport(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urbannizer Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 New Trains to be Nation's First Low-Floor Model Yesterday's board approval of our contract to build four-light rail lines includes the purchase of 29 rail cars from CAF USA Inc., a subsidiary of the Spain-based CAF Group, a $7.5 billion company with 34 projects in 20 countries. These sleek trains feature one level inside, from front to back, with no steps. "This is a 100 %, low-floor model. And this is the first time it will be in the United States," said Jitendra S. Tomar, vice president of marketing and business development at CAF USA Inc. "Other cars, you have 70 percent low floor. This one is all one level. You have better mobility from one end to the other." Scott Grogan, senior director of rail operations, said the 100 percent low-floor feature sets this model apart. Low-floor trains like this are currently operating in Seville and Malaga, Spain; Edinburg, Scotland; and Antalya, Turkey. The new trains will also have six doors per side - two double doors and two single doors. METRO's current Siemens trains have four doors. The new cars will be the same width as the Siemens but slightly longer - 102.5 feet compared to 96 feet for our current cars. "With six doors, it's going to expedite boarding and deboarding," said Scott Grogan, METRO's senior director of rail operations. "Currently, on the Main Street line, we have a capacity issue. What this new vehicle will allow - when you have 200 people waiting on the platform - it will allow quicker boarding and deboarding." Inside, the layout of the seats can be changed. They can all flip up for standing room only stadium crowds, for example. Several of you asked if METRO's Siemens train can be hooked up to a CAF USA train. Yes, but only to use one to tow the other. However, the two cannot be hooked up together to run service. "They have two separate operating parameters. It's like a Mac communicating to a PC - totally different operating parameters on the software side," explained Grogan. METRO plans to keep its 18 Siemens trains and may eventually use them on a commuter rail line. Several of you have asked if the new trains will be able to accommodate bike racks. "That's being looked into," said Grogan. The CAF USA trains come with the industry standard of a 30-year lifetime. However, what makes this deal unique is the way the contract is structured. "The risk elevation is more on the private side. In this case, the onus is on the private side, so risk allocation is shared by all of us. It's good for the taxpayers - and METRO has the least risk," said CAF's Tomar. "It's not a public-private partnership. It's beyond that. This is a unique approach, and I commend METRO for this approach." Typically, trains come with a two-year warranty. In this case, the system must function fault-free for five years. "With this process, CAF USA will be responsible for any fleet defects in a five-year window. They will have to redesign or fix whatever the failure is and alleviate that. That's unique," said Grogan. Our initial "Notice to Proceed" - a notice we give to the train manufacturer indicating we are ready to order - calls for 29 cars. Ten will be used for the East End line, and 19 for the Main Street line. METRO expects delivery of the trains in April 2012. http://blogs.ridemetro.org/blogs/write_on/...loor-Model.aspx More pics of the Train. Here's a youtube video of the new trains (they are currently in Seville,Spain). The new map for Metro rail: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 YouTube of the trains in Spain: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citykid09 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Are the METROExpress and METRO Airport Direct Rail (commuter) or just buses? That will be really cool if its Rail, I could get everywhere without having to drive. Park the car at the Cypress station on the way in from Bryan/College Station and get where I need to go without thinking about it.Also will the Uptown line run at street level? If so How? It will make traffic worst! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesL Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Are the METROExpress and METRO Airport Direct Rail (commuter) or just buses?Christof's schematic, posted above, shows how the METRO rapid transit system will probably look in 2012. The METROExpress and Airport Direct services are bus routes that operate today. There are no immediate plans to replace them with rail, but I assure you they work well as they are.That will be really cool if its Rail, I could get everywhere without having to drive.It's interesting you say that. Even though they are buses, you can still park at Cypress and get most places very easily, provided it is a weekday. The park and ride buses are comfortable and quick and use the HOV lanes during rush hour in the peak direction.Also will the Uptown line run at street level? If so How? It will make traffic worst!The Uptown line will run at street level on Post Oak Blvd. They will probably use the median space and narrow the travel lanes slightly. It will most likely disrupt traffic flow a bit, but on the other hand almost no one presently uses transit in that area and light rail may lure them aboard. I would imagine many Galleria shoppers wouldn't mind parking elsewhere and riding light rail rather than deal with that traffic and parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The new design seems pretty good and the additional doors would speed up loading, I am curious what the load capacity will be.another issue I have is that we don't need a train with two dricing positions, but rather, two trains that will back into each other. The way it currently is designed, you have a bit of space that could be able to nudge about another 20 people in there.I expect that they will be running double cars almost immediately after the lines open, why have two cockpits that arent going to be needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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