Hardy Yards Developments

[Avossos]

What a day to be complaining about modern & more urban apartments going up in Houston.

 

Sorry Cloud, just messing with you. I was hopeful too that this huge piece of land could become some new modern city neighborhood with office, retail, residential, all in some cool high rises on the light rail. But don't give up hope. These wraps will age terribly (wood frames, I'm looking at you), and in 20-30 years will be as easily torn down as garden style apartments and unused warehouses are today. Easy come, easy go.

 

You make an interesting point that i have pondered a few times. All this development thats happening... of which maybe 30% is worth keeping around for long periods of time, while the other 70% is either average or bad. Lets say some of that bad are in great locations, and that as density increases, these will become the weakest link in their perspective areas. Just like natural selection, the weakest link will be the first to go... likely to be redeveloped into something better (where the same 30 / 70 ratio applies). Over time, the 30% will stay and be added to. In a way, this could be a good thing that allows areas to freshen up or reinvent. This is happening now, with garden style apartments. the short term buildings serve a purpose, even if they arent architectually interesting or beautiful.

 

This phenomanon is happening now off i10 in First Ward / Heights. Those wharehouses will come down, one by one, until none are left. the suburban style makes sense as a replacement now... gaining residents in the area and retail options. Soon the need for higher density will be there and then the large parking lots wont make economic or development sense.

 

Houston's average building under construction inside the loop mayhave been 2-4 stories a decade ago, but now the average is say, 7-9 (guess). At some point that average will go up.

 

Point is, big steps forward are great, but small steps are a great sign too. I am just happy Houston is going the right direction.

[rechlin]

That's what I've been saying all along, Avossos.  It fits in other contexts, too; not all old buildings are worth saving.  Places like Europe have lots of cool old buildings because all the worst ones were eventually replaced in later times, but now all that is left in some cities is hundreds of years worth of very cool buildings.  Houston is still a relatively young city and hasn't had enough of these "30/70" (or even 10/90, long term) situations to weed out all the bad stuff.

 

Until the 1990s, pretty much all apartments in central Houston were the 2-story garden style.  Then you started seeing 3-story garden apartments.  In the late 1990s, the "wrap" started showing up -- for a while, I lived in a ~1998 apartment complex that had a 4-story wrap, along with 3-story garden-style outer buildings, with a mix of garage and surface parking.  Then in the early 2000s, so 10-15 years ago, the typical construction was the 4 story wrap.  Then in the last decade we started seeing more 5-6 story wraps.  And now, the new trend is the 7-9 story pedestal, with parking at the base.  It's all about getting denser.  The high-rises generally are just extensions of these pedestals, though unfortunately the ubiquitous Skyhouses still insist on an ugly separate garage (but presumably the Skyhouses will be shorter-lived buildings, fitting in the "30%" category).

 

It sounds like this project is probably likely to have the pedestal-style buildings, just based on trends.  Those seem to be well-suited for ground-floor retail, too, because the garage bases can easily handle commercial units, so this may end up being a walkable, livable neighborhood unlike what some fear.

[Luminare]

That's what I've been saying all along, Avossos.  It fits in other contexts, too; not all old buildings are worth saving.  Places like Europe have lots of cool old buildings because all the worst ones were eventually replaced in later times, but now all that is left in some cities is hundreds of years worth of very cool buildings.  Houston is still a relatively young city and hasn't had enough of these "30/70" (or even 10/90, long term) situations to weed out all the bad stuff.

 

Until the 1990s, pretty much all apartments in central Houston were the 2-story garden style.  Then you started seeing 3-story garden apartments.  In the late 1990s, the "wrap" started showing up -- for a while, I lived in a ~1998 apartment complex that had a 4-story wrap, along with 3-story garden-style outer buildings, with a mix of garage and surface parking.  Then in the early 2000s, so 10-15 years ago, the typical construction was the 4 story wrap.  Then in the last decade we started seeing more 5-6 story wraps.  And now, the new trend is the 7-9 story pedestal, with parking at the base.  It's all about getting denser.  The high-rises generally are just extensions of these pedestals, though unfortunately the ubiquitous Skyhouses still insist on an ugly separate garage (but presumably the Skyhouses will be shorter-lived buildings, fitting in the "30%" category).

 

It sounds like this project is probably likely to have the pedestal-style buildings, just based on trends.  Those seem to be well-suited for ground-floor retail, too, because the garage bases can easily handle commercial units, so this may end up being a walkable, livable neighborhood unlike what some fear.

 

Lets also remember that Houston has escaped calamity, war, strong hand governments, revolution, and the iron fist of a single dedicated master planner.

 

Examples: London had the Great Fire that pretty much wiped out most of its Medieval Era architecture. It also had bombings from V-2's in WWII, and other various wars.

 

Paris had Napoleon III slice the city up with Boulevards and in the process quickly subduing centuries of old architecture.

 

Berlin was massively devastated by WWII as were many cities.

 

New York has incredible geographic constraints as well as the pressure to build taller due to the shear size of its population.

 

Chicago is a slightly older city, but was literally the center of the industrial revolution, the birthplace of the modern skyscraper, and was the homebase for American Modernism and international architects.

 

Also most of those cities history they were widely influenced by the ruling classes who could easily mold the city to whatever they desired. We are seeing this today in China and Dubai where strong handed governments are taking immediate control of the urban environment and are fast tracking it. Democracy/Republicanism, while a great means for stable government means that the process of change is very very slow (which is on purpose).

 

Houston is the city of intense extremes! Extremes which work against the sort of vulcanization needed to produce dense cities or lasting architecture.

 

We are incredibly young, incredibly conservative, democratic/republican deadlock which keeps dramatic changes to a minimal or in check, we were essentially the prototype of the true modernist horizontal city, we have no major geographic constraints, and along with no zoning or no real major civic architecture movements we also escaped the iron fist dedicated master planner movements that some American cities experienced during the Modern era.

 

EDIT: You want Houston to have true lasting or iconic architecture? Make Houston the center of a national or international movement, create a new sense of civic duty or civic pride which produces monuments or significant public architecture and spaces, and finally because we have no physical constraints we have to create/design constraints for ourselves.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Luminare

[Montrose1100]

nevermind. Good post Lum, always taking it to the next level

Edited February 19, 2015 by Montrose1100

[lockmat]

This is listed in the variance section of the summary plat report.

Found this: http://udsonline.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=49&Itemid=18

http://www.ridemetro.org/AboutUs/Board/working_meetings/2011/Presentations/12-2011/122011-Board%20Meeting/20-CRV-Hardy-Yards-Settlement-Agreement122011.pdf

http://www.707walnut.com/sketches/proposed-buffalo-bayou-diversion-channel/

 

Looks like townhomes might be in the northern area

 

 

 

A couple of new things. First, a rendering, of course. But also this City of Houston document concerning a meeting with the Hardy Yard development authority. 

 

doc link: http://www.houstontx.gov/ecodev/tirz/agendas/21agenda.pdf

 

 

rendering link: http://www.johnmoonstudio.com/gallery-marketing-illustrations/#!lightbox[group]/12/

 

Looks like the new layout is consistent with the bisnow report, no office or retail. But hopefully those two little pocket parks stay.

 

http://www.designworkshop.com/projects/hardy-yards.html

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by lockmat

[Triton]

Looks like the new layout is consistent with the bisnow report, no office or retail. But hopefully those two little pocket parks stay.

 

http://www.designworkshop.com/projects/hardy-yards.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's what I reported on the last page. I think this is going to be it.

[jt16]

Houstons Stuyvesant Town? Not sure I like the plan, but it's not my money at stake here.

[Timoric]

-

Edited July 8, 2019 by Timoric

[DNAguy]

Hardy green = future San Jacinto bridge/ Fulton connection. Nice try though developer.

Iteresting transpo kindlings that would affect this site:

1.) [Mentioned above] San Jac connection to Fulton st.

2.) TCR (high speed rail) connection to downtown

3.) I45 study - Either I45 expansion.... or realignment to I10 and 59/69..... which would probably lead to relocation of I10 slighly north of UH downtown and just south of the HArdy yards.

[Ryanbergeron83]

That's what I've been saying all along, Avossos.  It fits in other contexts, too; not all old buildings are worth saving.  Places like Europe have lots of cool old buildings because all the worst ones were eventually replaced in later times, but now all that is left in some cities is hundreds of years worth of very cool buildings.  Houston is still a relatively young city and hasn't had enough of these "30/70" (or even 10/90, long term) situations to weed out all the bad stuff.

 

Until the 1990s, pretty much all apartments in central Houston were the 2-story garden style.  Then you started seeing 3-story garden apartments.  In the late 1990s, the "wrap" started showing up -- for a while, I lived in a ~1998 apartment complex that had a 4-story wrap, along with 3-story garden-style outer buildings, with a mix of garage and surface parking.  Then in the early 2000s, so 10-15 years ago, the typical construction was the 4 story wrap.  Then in the last decade we started seeing more 5-6 story wraps.  And now, the new trend is the 7-9 story pedestal, with parking at the base.  It's all about getting denser.  The high-rises generally are just extensions of these pedestals, though unfortunately the ubiquitous Skyhouses still insist on an ugly separate garage (but presumably the Skyhouses will be shorter-lived buildings, fitting in the "30%" category).

 

It sounds like this project is probably likely to have the pedestal-style buildings, just based on trends.  Those seem to be well-suited for ground-floor retail, too, because the garage bases can easily handle commercial units, so this may end up being a walkable, livable neighborhood unlike what some fear.

 

Great observation and explanation.  I've noticed that these 4 story wrap projects built in the early 2000's are now turning into somewhat of an eyesore.  I don't mean the structure themselves, but the siding seams seem to collect dirt and bleed all over the stucco siding.  Not very pleasant . I suspect there will be a lot more of this as developers shy away from expensive bricks and stones.

[cloud713]

That's what I reported on the last page. I think this is going to be it.

yeah.. thats what i was afraid of when i saw the "$300 million" price tag. and people seriously want the Justice Complex site to be turned into more of this crap?? make it an addition to Buffalo Bayou Park/dont sell it off to the highest bidder of a midrise wrap complex.

 

Houston has a lot of land. Do we have enough urban parks? Seems like these hundreds of acres industrial sites being torn down would offer an enticing option to make more parks in strategic locations near the bayous. I know, I know, green space laws in California make housing sky high and protect Palo Alto existing home owners, but it seems different here.

 

yep.. i said it somewhere (800 Bell thread?) that Houston needs more urban parks, especially with the influx of residents.. and some of this land like the Justice Complex could be turned into park land attatched to Buffalo Bayou, instead of being redeveloped into a bunch of mediocre crap.

[ANTHONYHTOWN]

yeah.. thats what i was afraid of when i saw the "$300 million" price tag. and people seriously want the Justice Complex site to be turned into more of this crap?? make it an addition to Buffalo Bayou Park/dont sell it off to the highest bidder of a midrise wrap complex.

 

yep.. i said it somewhere (800 Bell thread?) that Houston needs more urban parks, especially with the influx of residents.. and some of this land like the Justice Complex could be turned into park land attatched to Buffalo Bayou, instead of being redeveloped into a bunch of mediocre crap.

Totally agree i think the hardy yards can be used to something better and possibly add the so called water hole idea? that can be added along a plan with the bayou including the area where the current policy station is located and it wold be a good idea to bring down that days inn and make that spot into a park.

[Sparrow]

Wraps for the Hardy Yards are like car dealerships along freeways or public storage on major thoroughfares--they are just a mid-length income generating placeholder until a higher and better use for the land comes along.  Wraps are a hedge.

 

Wraps are a fantastic development for this large tract of land. It would be a shame for the land to be subdivided into townhomes or developed piecemeal by separate builders. Building wraps (with retail) gives the neighborhood a nudge in the right direction. The increase in density will help its own future redevelopment prospects as surrounding land will developed, likely increasing demand for the neighborhood. The "low" cost estimate of this development we have been hearing lately is just as encouraging as to the long term redevelopment prospects. If over a billion dollars were to be invested now it would take much longer to recoup the investment, and it would be much less likely future economically advantageous development opportunities would arise.

 

I'll gladly take a half dozen TOD wraps at this location instead of a huge tract of vacant land for the next decade.

[IamHouston]

If someone has already posted this in the past, I apologize in advance. This was released in early August of 2014 by City Councilman Ed Gonzalez of District H. 

 

http://www.edforh.com/2014/08/new-district-h-project-hardy-yards/ 

 

There are other project on the website as well including more in 77009 and some in EaDo.

Edited February 20, 2015 by IamHouston

[Kinglyam]

Right now they're doing the street widening and they're building the Metro TC at the light rail station. They're due to rip up Burnett next week, drop it a couple of feet, and put in the four-lane curb-and-gutter.

 

I find it hard to imagine anyone would think making that area nothing but apartments is in any way useful. There's negligible residential amenities in the area. Are they expecting people to move to a massive suburban-sized apartment complex in an urban area where there are no supermarkets, shops, or restaurants to speak of?

 

Isn't this Residences that folks are talking about the same one that an earlier posting said is to be on the southeast corner of the Hardy Yards?

[lockmat]

just a little tid bit of info

 

http://davis360.com/portfolio/economic-development/hardy-yards-multi-use-revitalization/

The Hardy Rail Yards was the oldest rail yard in Houston...

 

Cypress Real Estate Advisors bought the 40 acre site, remediated it and in 2014 began improvements to the site’s prime access from Main St.; rebuilding the two-lane Burnett St. to four lanes; adding the first internal street in the site to reach the first mid-rise residential structure.

 

... That will lead to transit oriented development (TOD) in the near future adjacent to the station.

 

 

[HoustonMidtown]

I rode my bike through the area last weekend - a lot of work being done on the roads and infrastructure....the station with the stairs and elevator (pics in this thread: http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/7525-the-metro-north-rail-line/page-13)looks really out of place since it is out in the middle of nowhere with little other development around it....of course that will change as they continue to develop the area....

[Triton]

Looks like they may have started on the expansion.

 

Hardy Yards by marclongoria, on Flickr

[IamHouston]

Looks like they may have started on the expansion.

 

Hardy Yards by marclongoria, on Flickr

 

 

 

Triton, they did indeed start the expansion. A few of the residents on the street have confirmed Burnett will be widened to 4 lanes according to their conversations with some of the construction workers. 

[Kinglyam]

Yep. I talked to the construction foreman a couple of weeks ago (before the rain started). They were scheduled to start ripping up the north side of Burnett last week, but it looks like the rain delayed them. It's supposed to go on for 3 months once they start tearing up the road itself.  The elevation of Burnett will be dropping pretty significantly starting about where that picture is taken (Everett St.)  That intersection will get dropped at least a foot, he said.  The side streets are going to curb-and-gutter back to about 150 feet from Burnett, as well.

[Urbannizer]

SubdivisionPlatPDF_Residence at Hardy Yards pdf.pdf

[aarosurf]

The transit station is going up quickly - they've been working away on this. The road widening has not started. 

 

Regarding the comment made earlier about "negligible residential amenities", there are tons of restaurants around here as well as a Fiesta store, Walgreens, etc. up on Quitman. The neighborhood just doesn't look like Montrose. 

[Houston19514]

Transit Station? 

[Triton]

Not sure what you mean that the widening hasn't started. Burnett is completely ripped apart for widening. In fact, you can't even drive down sections of Burnett because of it.... Tried to drive down it on Sunday.

 

 

For me, the harder part to tell is if they have started on infrastructure (water pipes, etc.) in the center of the yards or whether what I am viewing is the beginning of the actual development. It's very difficult to get pics of this spot central spot. I'll see if I can.

[aarosurf]

Pg. 4 of this shows the bus platform that is currently under construction:

 

http://ridemetro.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=5&clip_id=973&meta_id=14929

 

Sorry Triton - I was referring to the small section by the station.  

[Houston19514]

^  Cool.  Thanks.

[IamHouston]

Can anyone get their hands on the agenda or what was presented? Would be cool to see the contracts that were approved from all the bids taken over the past few months.

 

http://www.houstontx.gov/ecodev/tirz/agendas/21agenda.pdf

 

[IamHouston]

Most of this isn't new news, but good to see additional details released!

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2015/04/06/houston-developer-closes-on-prime-property-near.html

 

Edited April 6, 2015 by IamHouston

[Fortune]

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2015/04/06/houston-developer-closes-on-prime-property-near.html

[Triton]

I like it!