Jump to content

Digital TV Delays


Geoff8201

Recommended Posts

So once again.. delay...

Back in 1998/1999-ish, the digital TV conversion was supposed to happen in 2006... then moved to 2009, and once again, 5 more months.

Personally I feel people have received ample warning that this is going to happen... a decade seems like enough. Why not we also delay Tax Return Deadline Day from April 15 to August 15 so people can be ready...

I understand it's a tough economic time and the government is trying to ease another immediate expense, but my only point is, set a date, and stick to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 90
  • Created
  • Last Reply
So once again.. delay...

Back in 1998/1999-ish, the digital TV conversion was supposed to happen in 2006... then moved to 2009, and once again, 5 more months.

Personally I feel people have received ample warning that this is going to happen... a decade seems like enough. Why not we also delay Tax Return Deadline Day from April 15 to August 15 so people can be ready...

I understand it's a tough economic time and the government is trying to ease another immediate expense, but my only point is, set a date, and stick to it.

Then why didn't the gubbamint allocate enough funds for converter box coupons?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So once again.. delay...

Back in 1998/1999-ish, the digital TV conversion was supposed to happen in 2006... then moved to 2009, and once again, 5 more months.

Personally I feel people have received ample warning that this is going to happen... a decade seems like enough. Why not we also delay Tax Return Deadline Day from April 15 to August 15 so people can be ready...

I understand it's a tough economic time and the government is trying to ease another immediate expense, but my only point is, set a date, and stick to it.

We do. Just file IRS Form 4868 for an automatic 4 month extension to August 15 to file your tax return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then why didn't the gubbamint allocate enough funds for converter box coupons?

Because the Dems. forgot to earmark funds during the first bailout draft. Don't worry they are gonna cutout the Planned Parenthood funds, for low income folks, in this new stimulus bill to make room for it. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So once again.. delay...

Back in 1998/1999-ish, the digital TV conversion was supposed to happen in 2006... then moved to 2009, and once again, 5 more months.

Personally I feel people have received ample warning that this is going to happen... a decade seems like enough. Why not we also delay Tax Return Deadline Day from April 15 to August 15 so people can be ready...

I understand it's a tough economic time and the government is trying to ease another immediate expense, but my only point is, set a date, and stick to it.

People will complain about it whenever they decide to do it - just do it and move on....you can never please everyone...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a waiting list for ATSC decoder coupons. Why so many coupons are needed, I'm not sure. I think some people signed up for them even though they don't need them. Some people are greedy, others are stupid.

The guy behind the bill is Jay Rockefeller, current senator from and former governor of West Virginia, which on America's chart of poverty and stupidity is where the two lines intersect.

The argument here is that in an emergency people who are cut out of the DTV loop won't know what to do. This is especially true in West Virginia.

There is a large area in Rockefeller's state known as "Chemical Valley" (Kanawha Valley in real life) that has dozens and dozens of massive chemical plants all connected to each other. Because of the state's topography, a very large percentage of the population lives within a mile or less of these chemical factories. These factories have a bad habit of releasing clouds of deadly chemicals every now and again. In the 18 months I lived in Charleston it happened at least three times.

Anyway, with the state that the radio industry is in these days, if an emergency happens there's no one at the radio stations to warn people or tell them what to do. TV stations are the only broadcasters in West Virginia that are staffed overnight (when these things seem to happen most often).

So that's why Rockefeller sees it as a public safety issue. It's an issue that mostly affects his state, but the rest of us have to suffer for it.

But more broadly speaking, if there's a tornado or a flood or some other catastrophe, the majority of America is simply not served by radio stations that can handle such an emergency. I would be surprised if there was more than one radio station in Wisconsin that had an actual human being running things over night. Ditto for states like Iowa, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and many other states where tornadoes come in the night.

Heck, even in Houston, how many stations actually have staff overnight? Two? Maybe three? Five at the most. Just because you hear a DJ's voice, don't be fooled into thinking it's live, or even coming from the same time zone.

In summary -- it's radio's fault.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But more broadly speaking, if there's a tornado or a flood or some other catastrophe, the majority of America is simply not served by radio stations that can handle such an emergency. I would be surprised if there was more than one radio station in Wisconsin that had an actual human being running things over night. Ditto for states like Iowa, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and many other states where tornadoes come in the night.

Heck, even in Houston, how many stations actually have staff overnight? Two? Maybe three? Five at the most. Just because you hear a DJ's voice, don't be fooled into thinking it's live, or even coming from the same time zone.

In summary -- it's radio's fault.

But that's moot, because the National Weather Service has the power to take over transmissions with the Emergency Alert System.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a waiting list for ATSC decoder coupons. Why so many coupons are needed, I'm not sure. I think some people signed up for them even though they don't need them. Some people are greedy, others are stupid.

The gubbamint said anyone who wants coupons can have them, regardless of "need". What motivation would anyone have to refuse a handout?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The gubbamint said anyone who wants coupons can have them, regardless of "need". What motivation would anyone have to refuse a handout?

Because the need for such an item is not present maybe ? I can see those who actually may have one or two "extra" coupons laying around, selling them to a neighbor who hasn't the faintest, and selling them said coupon in exchange for either money or food stamps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because the need for such an item is not present maybe ? I can see those who actually may have one or two "extra" coupons laying around, selling them to a neighbor who hasn't the faintest, and selling them said coupon in exchange for either money or food stamps.

Huh? I don't have any analog TVs at home, plus I have cable, so I have no need for extra ATSC converters. But even I was tempted to get some coupons and buy a couple just in case I run into some fantastic deal on a TV without one in the future. I can easily see people who don't absolutely have to have an ATSC tuner going ahead and getting some if the government is paying. Otherwise, it's like you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then why didn't the gubbamint allocate enough funds for converter box coupons?

And once the coupons program runs out of funds again, watch sub $40 converters arrive. I always found it fishy that you can't find some "Made in China" converter box for less than $40 right now. Just company's profiting from it now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Huh? I don't have any analog TVs at home, plus I have cable, so I have no need for extra ATSC converters. But even I was tempted to get some coupons and buy a couple just in case I run into some fantastic deal on a TV without one in the future. I can easily see people who don't absolutely have to have an ATSC tuner going ahead and getting some if the government is paying. Otherwise, it's like you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.

Absolutely, there are tons of bottom feeders, who will suck every ounce of blood out of actual taxpayers and even their own kind in the belief that they think they are owed something. While actually hurting those who truly need a Govt. handout.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Absolutely, there are tons of bottom feeders, who will suck every ounce of blood out of actual taxpayers and even their own kind in the belief that they think they are owed something. While actually hurting those who truly need a Govt. handout.

Again, huh? What makes someone a bottom feeder or a non-actual taxpayer if they use the coupons the government offers them to get the converter box they wouldn't need if the FCC hadn't auctioned off the spectrum they used to use to watch TV?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's been at least 20 years since I've even seen a TV hooked up to an antenna. How many people can this really affect?

Last I read, they proponents of the delay are claiming 6.5 million get their TV over the air exclusively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, huh? What makes someone a bottom feeder or a non-actual taxpayer if they use the coupons the government offers them to get the converter box they wouldn't need if the FCC hadn't auctioned off the spectrum they used to use to watch TV?

The bottomfeeders are the ones who always get way more than they need, when they don't actually need it at all. In turn, they take away from those who actually DO need it. I never said that those who actually NEED the box are bottomfeeders. Anyone that has a digital cable box, has no need. Anyone that has a digital capable tv, has no need. That includes those in the Projects and those in the Galleria area or Woodlands. TV is a luxury not a right meme. When TVs came out in the 50's not everyone had one did they? When radios came out in the 20's, not everyone had one, and there were no Govt. vouchers to get one, they simply did without until they COULD get one. You telling me the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many ? There are thousands like you, yes YOU, who admit that they don't NEED the apparatus, but they are gonna get one anyways because it's a free handout. I bet you were in line for cheese in the 80's also, when you had 5 blocks of Velveeta sittin' in the fridge already. You wonder why the Govt. ran out of converters ? It's because there are people out there trying to make a buck off of them, and the ones who won't spend a dime on them are waiting and complaining to their congressman that they can't watch Jerry Springer if we do the switch over.

Tell me again WHY the FCC must cater to these folks in the first place though ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The bottomfeeders are the ones who always get way more than they need, when they don't actually need it at all. In turn, they take away from those who actually DO need it. I never said that those who actually NEED the box are bottomfeeders. Anyone that has a digital cable box, has no need. Anyone that has a digital capable tv, has no need. That includes those in the Projects and those in the Galleria area or Woodlands. TV is a luxury not a right meme.

Exactly. So no one "needs" these boxes. Hence, we're all equally entitled to them.

When TVs came out in the 50's not everyone had one did they? When radios came out in the 20's, not everyone had one, and there were no Govt. vouchers to get one, they simply did without until they COULD get one. You telling me the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many ? There are thousands like you, yes YOU, who admit that they don't NEED the apparatus, but they are gonna get one anyways because it's a free handout.

Like I said, I thought about it. I didn't, but why shouldn't I? This isn't food or shelter we're talking about. It's an ATSC tuner.

I bet you were in line for cheese in the 80's also, when you had 5 blocks of Velveeta sittin' in the fridge already. You wonder why the Govt. ran out of converters ? It's because there are people out there trying to make a buck off of them, and the ones who won't spend a dime on them are waiting and complaining to their congressman that they can't watch Jerry Springer if we do the switch over.

Tell me again WHY the FCC must cater to these folks in the first place though ?

The government agreed to pay for converters when the FCC was pushing for the digital switch. The FCC saw a way to generate revenue from auctioning the spectrum currently used by analog TV, and was heavily lobbied by the electronics industry that saw a cash cow selling new TVs and ATSC tuner boxes.

What's with the personal attack?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's an example:

I moved recently and don't yet have cable or U-Verse yet. I needed a dig-box for one TV. I had to pay full price because (assumed) people were scooping them up that really didn't need them and the coupons had run out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I figured it might be a little more (who and where are these statistics coming from?), but everyone I practically know has cable (except me..)

no cable here either....that was a digital commericial i saw however i just looked at census data and it said this

110 million

The number of households with a television set in 2006

73.2 million

The number of households with cable television in 2006.

GAO:A 2005 Government Accountability Office survey found that 21 million Americans get their TV over the air

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... Anyone that has a digital cable box, has no need. Anyone that has a digital capable tv, has no need...

Totally disagree... after the hurricane, when I had no electricity, I could keep a small TV going off of a marine deep cycle battery. Without analog signals, that TV is worthless without a converter.

Just because I live in the lap of luxury and have cable, doesnt mean I shouldnt be prepared in case of an emergency.

This has nothing to do with my income.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's an example:

I moved recently and don't yet have cable or U-Verse yet. I needed a dig-box for one TV. I had to pay full price because (assumed) people were scooping them up that really didn't need them and the coupons had run out.

I've got a problem with this notion of "need". Who really needs these coupons? People who have no other way of getting TV? People who just moved and are waiting on cable? People who have cable but might lose power in a hurricane? People who enjoy collecting odd little boxes of electronics?

ATSC tuners are not a key ingredient for survival on this planet. I don't see how anyone can defend an objective definition of "need" for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly. So no one "needs" these boxes. Hence, we're all equally entitled to them.

Like I said, I thought about it. I didn't, but why shouldn't I? This isn't food or shelter we're talking about. It's an ATSC tuner.

The government agreed to pay for converters when the FCC was pushing for the digital switch. The FCC saw a way to generate revenue from auctioning the spectrum currently used by analog TV, and was heavily lobbied by the electronics industry that saw a cash cow selling new TVs and ATSC tuner boxes.

What's with the personal attack?

I am simply pointing out that you acting in that manner, makes you no better than the bottomfeeders, and I don't think of you as that type. At least not until you come up with, "well, I was gonna get one, even though I know I don't need it." That is why there are no converters now. Because there are people thinking like you, that are in the same situation as you or better, but they are acting upon their greedy impulses. The converter is ONLY a neccessity if you can't afford the luxury of a digital ready device. If there weren't thousands that act like this out there already, everyone would be watching digital HD.

Totally disagree... after the hurricane, when I had no electricity, I could keep a small TV going off of a marine deep cycle battery. Without analog signals, that TV is worthless without a converter.

Just because I live in the lap of luxury and have cable, doesnt mean I shouldnt be prepared in case of an emergency.

This has nothing to do with my income.

Having a tv when a radio would suffice is LUXURY, not neccessity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's moot, because the National Weather Service has the power to take over transmissions with the Emergency Alert System.

That's fine for weather emergencies, but doesn't mean anything for what Rockefeller is concerned about. In the case of the plants in the Kanawha Valley, they have special alert radios inside the radio stations that are connected to the plants. But if there's no one at the radio station to hear them -- no one gets alerted.

When I worked there the news staff had to carry "portable" versions of the radios with them. They were huge and heavy. Hopefully they're lighter now. But even then, I managed to sleep through one of them going off.

And while the EAS system is nice, it's not without flaws, or errors, or breakdowns, or other problems. Radio stations get fined every month to not maintaining, or in some cases even having, EAS equipment.

You have to remember that most of the nation is not urbanized to the extent that Houston is. In lots of places in West Virginia and other rural states 911 shuts down at night and everyone goes home. Calls are routed to the state police, which in some cases can be a hundred miles from where the caller is.

One city I lived in (population 54,000) didn't have full-time firefighters. If your house burned 6am-6pm you were good, but after that you had to rely on volunteers.

And in rural parts of the country, even the NWS can go home at night. Heck, at many medium-sized airports the air traffic controllers aren't around most of the time and planes are guided in from air traffic centers hundreds of miles away from the airports.

We like to think as a society that there are air traffic controllers and police and fire and weather service and radio and TV personnel on duty 24 hours a day in case something happens, but that's simply not the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am simply pointing out that you acting in that manner, makes you no better than the bottomfeeders, and I don't think of you as that type. At least not until you come up with, "well, I was gonna get one, even though I know I don't need it." That is why there are no converters now. Because there are people thinking like you, that are in the same situation as you or better, but they are acting upon their greedy impulses. The converter is ONLY a neccessity if you can't afford the luxury of a digital ready device. If there weren't thousands that act like this out there already, everyone would be watching digital HD.

But the coupons are available to all. There's no financial hardship requirement. That was part of the deal. If the government promises everyone who wants them ATSC tuners, then the government should provide them to everyone who wants them.

Having a tv when a radio would suffice is LUXURY, not neccessity.

Precisely! This is why no one, regardless of income, "needs" an ATSC tuner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's been at least 20 years since I've even seen a TV hooked up to an antenna. How many people can this really affect?

Depends on where you live. Nationally, I think the number is something like 20-30% of homes don't have cable or satellite.

In urban areas the number is much higher. The last numbers I saw from Chicago (about a year ago) had it close to 50%, so about two million people in that one city, alone.

That same set of numbers showed an interesting trend -- that of people who buy HDTVs, about 1-2% per month dump both cable and satellite service and go strictly OTA.

I've seen some more recent numbers stating that 6-7 million people are unaware of the change to digital. These people must be REALLY good at tuning out commercials, or they love their DVRs a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't delay because people aren't ready, flip the switch and make them either realize they are fine without TV for a while, or get off their asses and make their TV work. TV isn't water or electricity, and if you think you need it that badly you should be motivated to get your box rigged up. For those who are too lazy to do it, they are probably better off without TV so they can stop getting dumber for a while.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the government decides to auction off analog spectrum to the highest bidder ($$$ profit $$$), it is the government's responsibility to give people the capability to receive the new signals. They can take a portion of the money they made auctioning off the spectrum and upgrade all the TVs. If they didn't want to incur this expense, they shouldn't have auctioned off the public's spectrum.

Need has nothing to do with it. If you break my stuff, you have to fix it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the coupons are available to all. There's no financial hardship requirement. That was part of the deal. If the government promises everyone who wants them ATSC tuners, then the government should provide them to everyone who wants them.

Precisely! This is why no one, regardless of income, "needs" an ATSC tuner.

I disagree. I have a very strong need for TV and to watch this particular set, I "need" an ATSC tuner. Someone said that they were out of boxes. There are plenty of boxes around, just no government coupons.

My thought is how many people obtained the coupons that don't need one, like me? Now, the program is likely to be extended, go-live postponed and more money poured in for more coupons.

Radio Shack did say that if I could obtain a coupon, bring it back, along with my receipt and they would give me credit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


All of the HAIF
None of the ads!
HAIF+
Just
$5!


×
×
  • Create New...