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North MacGregor Re-Alignment Thorough Hermann Park


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I see that the COH has a new project, realigning N. MacGregor through Hermann Park between Almeda and the site of the new Cambridge St. bridge over the bayou. As it is now, N. MacGregor travels under a canopy of trees which arch over the roadway, providing a beautiful parkwaylike effect. From the land clearing I've seen, the current N. MacGregor will be dumped for an alignment that will make N. MacGregor run side by side with S. MacGregor without a big land buffer in the middle like it has now, turning the roadway into a bland, run of the mill arterial with a curb divider that can be found anyplace around the area instead of the greenspace that was originally between the two sides, and of course, no canopy of old tree limbs over the roadway. What benefit is there to relocating N.MacGregor? It serves a fine purpose in its current location IMO.

Edited by JLWM8609
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they should do away with that stretch of road entirely and hook it into almeda and then move/widen/beautify the bayou there and put in some flood control lakes in it...the golf course would be shifted over and more room for the zoo and park

like this

the white is one alignment alameda would be made a wider parkway and if the red flyovers were desired in addition to the white parts they would be of course designed by Santiago Calatrava :rolleyes::lol:B)

obama is in office now so there is plenty of money for anything

2vtp92b.jpg

Edited by TexasVines
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I am distressed to hear this, since that is a regular route for me. A bike path would be great but I'm not optimistic. Thanks for letting us know... and everyone keep posting if you learn anything new about this.

I live near there, and was a little perplexed when I heard the news of what they were doing here.....I drive and walk this area all the time and I think the road and paths are awesome as is.... I kind of assumed that the "powers that be" knew what they were doing with these "improvements" but now i read this and seen it for my own eyes I have a sinking feeling...

Can anyone say what is the point about this, apart from ruining 2 great roads (North and South McG), that are so cool to drive currently?

Oh yeah, and I'm not talking about the 20 feet of new green space that will be generated...next to the golf course..

Seriously, just when I think I made the right move to move to Houston I see stuff like this happening right on my doorstep? This is costing millions of $$ to make things worse? What is the point??? I think its costing $5 million... to hack me off. Awesome.

I'd be more than happy to stand corrected here...

Anyone??????

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Can someone please someone enlighten me why this is going to better than what was there??????

I'll even forget about the $5,000,0000 that its costing !!!!!!!

So ok, simple question - Why are we cutting down hundreds of trees to move 2 roads that were awesome as they were and turn it into one sterile roadway we see everywhere???

Edited by houstonranger
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I see that the COH has a new project, realigning N. MacGregor through Hermann Park between Almeda and the site of the new Cambridge St. bridge over the bayou. As it is now, N. MacGregor travels under a canopy of trees which arch over the roadway, providing a beautiful parkwaylike effect. From the land clearing I've seen, the current N. MacGregor will be dumped for an alignment that will make N. MacGregor run side by side with S. MacGregor without a big land buffer in the middle like it has now, turning the roadway into a bland, run of the mill arterial with a curb divider that can be found anyplace around the area instead of the greenspace that was originally between the two sides, and of course, no canopy of old tree limbs over the roadway. What benefit is there to relocating N.MacGregor? It serves a fine purpose in its current location IMO.

I knew about the bridge over to Cambridge, but this is the first I've heard of some kind of realignment. Does anybody have a link to official project information?

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they should do away with that stretch of road entirely and hook it into almeda and then move/widen/beautify the bayou there and put in some flood control lakes in it...the golf course would be shifted over and more room for the zoo and park

Divert all of MacGregor's traffic to Almeda? That would do WONDERS for traffic flow in the already congested area. :rolleyes: Not to mention that having flood control basins in the middle of a waterway as opposed to the side(s) of it doesn't really make sense.

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I forgot to add, I did google this project after I created this thread, and found some minutes from a May, 2007 Houston City Council Meeting regarding this project.

http://www.houstontx.gov/citysec/agendas/2007/20070508.pdf

See pages 10-14.

Apparently, the relocation of the N.MacGregor ROW would serve as a mobility and pavement reconstruction project that would maintain current traffic levels return 10 and 1/2 acres of land back to the park (but they don't say how much park land would be displaced by the new alignment). Seems to me that if they wanted to do pavement reconstruction of N. MacGregor, all they would have to do is just mill the old asphalt road surface and put fresh asphalt down instead of clearing land, and putting an all new concrete road bed down in a new location.

The minutes also go on to say "approximately 10 acres of formerly inaccessible parkland (plus wilderness areas on the bayou) would be accessible." Of course it was inaccessible, a 3 lane road was going through it, and I don't get the deal about the areas on the bayou being inaccessible, as I recall, the bike trails that run along the banks of the bayou allow access to that land. Now they want to make those 10 acres acccessible by plowing into a bit of previously accessible land. This land they're building the new N. MacGregor on has signs that say something to the effect of "Do Not Mow, Reforestation Area". Seems like those signs were a waste of money as the reforestation area has been destroyed. The COH wasting money is nothing new of course.

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Divert all of MacGregor's traffic to Almeda? That would do WONDERS for traffic flow in the already congested area. :rolleyes: Not to mention that having flood control basins in the middle of a waterway as opposed to the side(s) of it doesn't really make sense.

widen almeda to accept the traffic and put in the red flyovers by Santiago and the basins serve the puropse if it gives water a place to go other than where it is not wanted

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It would be nice to find a map or something definitive about that's happening. I can read the words but I can't realize visualize it all that well.

They do have all of the trees fenced off on both sides of the road, so maybe that's a good thing?

I'll try to work on something to post later today to give you a visualization.

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Ok, here are some photos of the construction area.

This first photo is just west of Almeda on N. MacGregor as you enter the park. Notice the orange signs.

GEDC0130.jpg

After you go into the curve, you can see the path that the new N. MacGregor ROW will take.

GEDC0131.jpg

And again.

GEDC0132.jpg

The old ROW with the nice tree limbs providing that beautiful arch. I wonder what will happen to the old road bed, maybe they'll tear up the pavement and turn it into a super wide jogging trail?

GEDC0133.jpg

Looking east along S. MacGregor.

GEDC0134.jpg

Looking west along S. MacGregor.

GEDC0135.jpg

More views along S. MacGregor.

GEDC0136.jpg

GEDC0137.jpg

GEDC0138.jpg

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hhm, yes, thanks for that, great pics....

I drove by it today as well, and while I'm sorry that the roads are going to be right next to each other, on closer inspection maybe it won't be too bad... ( I still liked it the way it was mind you)

As you say, I'm real interested in what they put in the existing North McGregor Rd...if they add something there real nice it might be worth losing with the canopy effect etc on N McGregor

Also, wonder how all this will affect traffic flow in and around the new bridge, which from what I can gather is why this North McGregor re-alignment is all happening

Also wonder if North M is still going to be 3 lanes?

S M is only 2.

Surely they would not get rid of a lane, esp as it is access to Ben Taub. Still needs to be 3 lanes IMO, which is what it is now. Not quite sure if there is room for 3 lanes in the new alignment...looks like there might be, but tough to tell....

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Also wonder if North M is still going to be 3 lanes?

S M is only 2.

Surely they would not get rid of a lane, esp as it is access to Ben Taub. Still needs to be 3 lanes IMO, which is what it is now. Not quite sure if there is room for 3 lanes in the new alignment...looks like there might be, but tough to tell....

I wouldn't be surprised if N. Macgregor gets reconstructed as 3 lanes, then they shift S. Macgregor to the new N. Macgregor temporarily while they tear up and reconstruct old S. Macgregor, also possibly with more lanes. The median could be made pretty thin. It isn't like there are any crossovers or turns in that stretch after all.

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"while they tear up and reconstruct old S. MacGregor"

who said anything about doing this???

This has nothing to do with re-alignment of N Mac? Why would they "tear up" S Mac?

Nobody did, but if it were going to happen at any point in the foreseeable future, now would be the time. That way we don't have to endure construction at some future date that would shut down half of the capacity of a major ambulance route. It just makes sense.

Also, up until just now we didn't really know anything about this realignment. I still haven't seen any government documents providing specifics, so we're left to make educated guesses.

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Why? Why are they doing this? This city is determined to obliterate anything with even a hint of beauty.

Yes, and they're even going to line the new uglified route with random big screen TVs. We're fighting for the hearts and minds of medical tourists from Dallas, don't you know? :P

No, really I'll bet that this is just something that Texas Medical Center, Inc. asked for; they always get what they want and have made it explicitly clear in the past that aesthetics won't get in the way of their mission. There's probably some element of traffic and congestion management going on that isn't readily apparent right now.

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I knew they were reconfiguring the MacGregor Way/North MacGregor Drive intersection toaccomodate the Cambridge-over-the-Brays Ext but I didn't know North MacGregor was going to be rerouted to match the alighment with South MacGregor. I thought the intersection reconstruction was it, and just it? Another reason why Houston stays losing when it comes to greenery from your cars. They should have left it alone; is it that big of a deal to reroute something to appease Cambridge access?

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This project is being done to improve traffic flow, but also, as someone posted earlier but failed to comprehend... the new roadway alignment will return approximately 10 acres of land to full park use, rather than being isolated and essentially inaccessible and unusable between 2 3-lane roadways. This is a NET 10- acres gain for the park and I believe the realignment is part of the park's master plan. (And I don't see any reason why the new alignment won't also be a very attractive drive.)

Now, please, everyone, climb back in off your ledges and take a deep breath.

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This project is being done to improve traffic flow, but also, as someone posted earlier but failed to comprehend... the new roadway alignment will return approximately 10 acres of land to full park use, rather than being isolated and essentially inaccessible and unusable between 2 3-lane roadways. This is a NET 10- acres gain for the park and I believe the realignment is part of the park's master plan. (And I don't see any reason why the new alignment won't also be a very attractive drive.)

Now, please, everyone, climb back in off your ledges and take a deep breath.

Not really clear of what use the new 10 acres could be, though. That's the golf course area, and the course is already laid out. Now if that becomes a bike/pedestrian trail, that's something I can get behind.

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This project was presented to the Texas Medical Center at one of their member institution meetings that I happened to attend over a year ago. The 10 plus acres of land will be used not only as a buffer zone for the golf course but will become a walking/hiking path similar to the one on the northeast side of the golf course. The canopy of trees will remain. These trees date back to the original park loop road that circled around the golf course and connected up with another park road in front of the present garden center.

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At first I was skeptical as to the necessity of this project, but in the end I think it will really enhance the park. Yes, driving under that tree canopy is pretty neat, but I don't think the drivers doing 50 mph and yakking on their cell phones ever gave a hoot. That fast traffic makes the running path - and I would imagine the golf course, as well - less enjoyable. And in the minutes of one of those hearings it states that there will in fact be a net loss in paved area since capacity will be the same and the crossovers will be eliminated.

I, for one, am glad that this is one road project that actually has some conservation value; i.e. it will confine the road impact to as small an area as possible, leaving vastly more contiguous green space.

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This project was presented to the Texas Medical Center at one of their member institution meetings that I happened to attend over a year ago. The 10 plus acres of land will be used not only as a buffer zone for the golf course but will become a walking/hiking path similar to the one on the northeast side of the golf course. The canopy of trees will remain. These trees date back to the original park loop road that circled around the golf course and connected up with another park road in front of the present garden center.

Yes, but for all it's potential, the old roadbed along the northeast side of the golf course is really underdeveloped, underutilized, and unattractive.

It may seem like the park is gaining 10 acres, but that doesn't mean that the amount of undeveloped green space is actually being increased, just that land previously owned and landscaped by one City department (PW&E) is being transferred to a different City department (Parks). And not only are we bulldozing reforestation area, but if the old N. Macgregor roadbed looks anything like that northeast section, it'll be a net loss to the public.

There's more than one way to utilize a park. You need not be on foot to enjoy it.

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At first I was skeptical as to the necessity of this project, but in the end I think it will really enhance the park. Yes, driving under that tree canopy is pretty neat, but I don't think the drivers doing 50 mph and yakking on their cell phones ever gave a hoot. That fast traffic makes the running path - and I would imagine the golf course, as well - less enjoyable. And in the minutes of one of those hearings it states that there will in fact be a net loss in paved area since capacity will be the same and the crossovers will be eliminated.

I, for one, am glad that this is one road project that actually has some conservation value; i.e. it will confine the road impact to as small an area as possible, leaving vastly more contiguous green space.

Oh, so drivers are just so completely oblivious to scenery that we may as well abandon all sign ordinances and forgo any future ROW landscaping that doesn't qualify as flood control? We can tax the signs (which are there in spite of that people are too distracted to look at them) and cut back on mowing expenses and nobody would ever really care.

And if some lone misguided motorist does care, well ____ them--they're not on foot and are therefore undeserving of such a sacred luxury as a nice view.

Sounds like a plan.

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These trees date back to the original park loop road that circled around the golf course and connected up with another park road in front of the present garden center.

So what if the trees stay? There are plenty of foot trails in parks all over town with tree canopies over them. What makes this area unique are the trees over the road.

Thanks, COH.

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So what if the trees stay? There are plenty of foot trails in parks all over town with tree canopies over them. What makes this area unique are the trees over the road.

Thanks, COH.

Contiguous park and improvement of the existing inadequate pedestrian/bike trail seems like a better use of land to me than a shaded drive half a mile long. There's plenty of beautification that can be done after the realignment is complete. Its going through a park, after all!

Edited by kylejack
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Just to be sure I'm following, so essentially the greenspace that will be reclaimed is the median, correct?

Not entirely. The existing median, a reforestation area, is bulldozed and used for new roadbed. The old roadbed is removed. The net difference in total land area covered by road is negligible, so the claim that 10 acres of park space has been "reclaimed" is disingenuous.

What has really happened is that the former roadbed is converted to park space and that the sliver of park space in the northernmost part of the median becomes contiguous TO THE GOLF COURSE.

The golf course is btw not contiguous (if roads are boundaries) with the part of the park that has Smith Lake and the Zoo. And that section of the park is not contiguous with the strip between Main Street and Fannin, or to the chopped up mess of NINE different non-contiguous pieces of Hermann Park that are in the vicinity of the Sam Houston statue and Mecom Fountain. Then there are another TWO sections of non-contiguous Hermann Park which will still be south of the new alignment of Macgregor.

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Not entirely. The existing median, a reforestation area, is bulldozed and used for new roadbed. The old roadbed is removed. The net difference in total land area covered by road is negligible, so the claim that 10 acres of park space has been "reclaimed" is disingenuous.

What has really happened is that the former roadbed is converted to park space and that the sliver of park space in the northernmost part of the median becomes contiguous TO THE GOLF COURSE.

The golf course is btw not contiguous (if roads are boundaries) with the part of the park that has Smith Lake and the Zoo. And that section of the park is not contiguous with the strip between Main Street and Fannin, or to the chopped up mess of NINE different non-contiguous pieces of Hermann Park that are in the vicinity of the Sam Houston statue and Mecom Fountain. Then there are another TWO sections of non-contiguous Hermann Park which will still be south of the new alignment of Macgregor.

And those two sections are, the section along Alemda Rd. and the section where the Pioneer Log Cabin is?

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The lion's share of the old "median" is not being bulldozed. They were even out moving mature trees yesterday. And, as kylejack noted, the road will still go through scenic parkland. Confining the noise and visual pollution of the roadway to a smaller area is certainly not all bad.

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The lion's share of the old "median" is not being bulldozed. They were even out moving mature trees yesterday. And, as kylejack noted, the road will still go through scenic parkland. Confining the noise and visual pollution of the roadway to a smaller area is certainly not all bad.

Now, now.... let's not be trying to muddle things up with actual facts. ;-)

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The lion's share of the old "median" is not being bulldozed. They were even out moving mature trees yesterday. And, as kylejack noted, the road will still go through scenic parkland. Confining the noise and visual pollution of the roadway to a smaller area is certainly not all bad.

Now, now.... let's not be trying to muddle things up with actual facts. ;-)

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The lion's share of the old "median" is not being bulldozed. They were even out moving mature trees yesterday. And, as kylejack noted, the road will still go through scenic parkland. Confining the noise and visual pollution of the roadway to a smaller area is certainly not all bad.

Most of those who actually experience the park in that area are motorists. What of the visual pollution that is added to that experience when two ugly roadways are merged?

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I love this quote. What says more about America than the argument that parks are meant to be enjoyed from the comfort of one's own vehicle.

I have a collection of most of the Official Texas State Highway Maps released since 1937. Extremely few of them include urban scenes, reflecting IMO that driving is an experience that transcends mere movement from point A to point B. People can and do enjoy scenic roads.

You can also look to innumerable park roads that have been developed, maintained, and even upgraded at great cost throughout the United States and Texas which serve no function except to be enjoyed from the cockpit of an automobile.

A great number of people and--from my observation--the majority of park users prefer this approach to experiencing nature. And certainly in the vast concrete jungle that can describe a major urban area, a brief stretch of parkway can be a coveted experience. I've seen in several posts on HAIF where people decide on a new residence on the basis of that the drive to work is a scenic one.

This is not to say categorically, as you did, that "parks are meant to be enjoyed from the comfort of one's own vehicle." I believe that to be a misnomer. However, scenic roadways are IMO one of many important functions of public parks.

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I have a collection of most of the Official Texas State Highway Maps released since 1937. Extremely few of them include urban scenes, reflecting IMO that driving is an experience that transcends mere movement from point A to point B. People can and do enjoy scenic roads.

You can also look to innumerable park roads that have been developed, maintained, and even upgraded at great cost throughout the United States and Texas which serve no function except to be enjoyed from the cockpit of an automobile.

A great number of people and--from my observation--the majority of park users prefer this approach to experiencing nature. And certainly in the vast concrete jungle that can describe a major urban area, a brief stretch of parkway can be a coveted experience. I've seen in several posts on HAIF where people decide on a new residence on the basis of that the drive to work is a scenic one.

This is not to say categorically, as you did, that "parks are meant to be enjoyed from the comfort of one's own vehicle." I believe that to be a misnomer. However, scenic roadways are IMO one of many important functions of public parks.

As JamesL and kylejack have noted, the road will still go through scenic parkland. So everyone can be happy.

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Will it still be scenic, even though motorists are no longer under an arch of mature oak trees and must view a wide swath of concrete and oncoming traffic?

IMO, no.

We can wait and enjoy the new canopy in 30 years. In the meantime, I'll just sit back and admire the wonderfully efficient traffic flow and thank the city for "reclaiming" park land next to a golf course.

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We can wait and enjoy the new canopy in 30 years. In the meantime, I'll just sit back and admire the wonderfully efficient traffic flow and thank the city for "reclaiming" park land next to a golf course.

The bridge will make for more efficient traffic flow, but I don't see any other compelling evidence that traffic will flow better as a result of the realignment.

As for 30-year patience, whoever said it was a virtue was a menace to society.

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