Why some people hate the suburbs

[liammclaren]

Look at any large city in history and you will see suburbs around it. They are built by people who made enough money inside the city to build a larger house outside it. For a long time they were mostly second homes, but the car and mass transit allowed people to live in them full time. These aren't cretins who were lied to by developers. They are people who want to live outside the city center.

It seems like it bothers you that some people don't want to live like you do. Why is that?

I already said I live in Pearland. I moved here to be close to work, quickly found out that it's a joke, and will be leaving as soon as possible. So how am I criticizing people that don't live like I do?

[kylejack]

Then why are the people telling other people where they should live in this thread all from the anti-suburb side?

Not telling you where to live, just telling you what I do and don't like.

[Jeebus]

I live in the suburbs. I don't have a gigantic house (1900 sq ft, built in 1965). I used to live inside the loop and paid less rent than I do now for a mortgage. I send my daughter to private school.

I've never considered neighborhoods like Westbury a "suburb" in Houston, especially when you have neighborhoods like Mission Bend, and my neighborhood west of that, and then 20 more neighborhoods west of that.

Meme, Do you send your daughter to private school because otherwise she would go to school with all the kids who live in apartments near your home?

[20thStDad]

To some people's comments about my comment about traffic in the burbs versus loop, I agree there are some exceptions. Shepherd (northbound, for some reason south isn't as bad) between 59 and I-10 is one, I avoid it if possible. Also, Kirby sucks more now with the construction and loss of a lane. It always sucked between Rice Village and 59, but then again it was always under some construction.

Those are a few exceptions which are easy for me to avoid, and I by doing so I don't get that crazy-kill-someone traffic feeling I get from the burbs I mentioned. I can fly all the way down Montrose from Washington to the Main circle without getting a red light, I have done it many times. The lights are planned (well, some routes). I find in the burbs I am always cursing at how dumb a light is, not doing at all what would help traffic flow well.

But I don't hate the burbs. I like big trees, parks, and well-timed traffic lights. Wherever that happens, I'm good.

[citizen4rmptown]

Funny. Both my kids went to a high school here in Fort Bend which was once written up as the most diverse school in the United States. If by diverse you mean more illegal aliens then your right. HISD has us beat.

I hope you didn't take my examples seriously.

Sorry for misleading you. I was hypothetically speaking.

[memebag]

I've never considered neighborhoods like Westbury a "suburb" in Houston, especially when you have neighborhoods like Mission Bend, and my neighborhood west of that, and then 20 more neighborhoods west of that.

I don't understand that statement. Why would 21 neighborhoods to the west make a suburb not a suburb? Do you think Westbury is urban? Exurban?

Meme, Do you send your daughter to private school because otherwise she would go to school with all the kids who live in apartments near your home?

She'd go to school with the Heights kids near her mom's house. We send her to private school because we can afford to.

[Jeebus]

I was simply saying that you speak of Westbury the way I speak of West Oaks Village. If I lived in Westbury, I would not consider it a suburb. Once upon a time I'm sure Westbury was a suburb on the outskirts of town, but now I would consider it an established inner-city neighborhood.

At least in the case of Houston, and in my opinion of course.

[BryanS]

Suburb cons: traffic/driving,

My residence and place of work is less than 5 miles apart. No need to even get on the freeway. Ever.

everything is new,

Nope. Nassau Bay homes are 35 to 40 years old. Many of the original NASA astronauts, and early NASA employees lived there. Nice older homes.

too much fake stucco,

Nope. Not on my house. Brick with 3/4" cedar siding, that you can't even get anymore. I see more "fake stucco" in Montrose than I do in any suburban neighborhood (which would tend to have hardiplank).

cutting down old trees to build new homes (I NEED OLD/BIG TREES!!)

Nope. My home is 29 years old. I have a huge oak tree in the backyard, that is probably much older than that. I tend to like older homes with mature trees... and there are tons of homes out there that meet that criteria.

, shopping centers (I hate them inner loop too),

Baybrook Mall... for those that even like going to the mall. I personally like having both Home Depot and Lowes within minutes of my house. The Sears at Baybrook is much better than the war zone/Detroit Sears on Fannin.

and the mentality that a new Red Robin being built = exciting.

Don't even eat there. It is hard finding a Fudruckers... luckily, there is one near NASA.

[memebag]

I was simply saying that you speak of Westbury the way I speak of West Oaks Village. If I lived in Westbury, I would not consider it a suburb. Once upon a time I'm sure Westbury was a suburb on the outskirts of town, but now I would consider it an established inner-city neighborhood.

Have you ever seen Westbury? There's nothing "inner-city" about it. No factories, no mid- or high-rises, no condos, no townhomes. It's all single family residences with big yards. The houses are smaller than West Oaks Village and the yards are bigger. How do you get "inner-city" from Westbury?

[Jeebus]

Have you ever seen Westbury? There's nothing "inner-city" about it. No factories, no mid- or high-rises, no condos, no townhomes. It's all single family residences with big yards. The houses are smaller than West Oaks Village and the yards are bigger. How do you get "inner-city" from Westbury?

By that set of standards then 3rd Ward, Heights, River Oaks, and Rice Village are all suburbs.

Technically, yes, Westbury is a suburb - but I would think we would consider different standards for a city like Houston.

(STRICTLY IMO) the suburbs start where the feel of the city ends. In my case, I feel like the city dies at Westheimer & Highway 6, which puts me in the suburbs. Westbury can easily be argued that its in the heart of the city, and only minutes from everything like the Galleria, Greenway Plaza, the Medical Center, and even Downtown.

In your direction, I would think all the neighborhoods to the south of you, south of US90, all the way down to the belt would be suburbs. They feel completely disconnected from everything, yet still serve the city.

[kylejack]

New rule, if you're in the city-proper you're not in a suburb. When I talk about suburbs I'm talking about places that don't have an address of Houston, TX.

[memebag]

New rule, if you're in the city-proper you're not in a suburb. When I talk about suburbs I'm talking about places that don't have an address of Houston, TX.

New rule: When I say suburb, I mean tracts of single family houses with yards & garages, regardless of how many more suburbs there are before you get to the wilderness. Annexation doesn't immediately convert suburban to urban, especially in a sprawling city like Houston.

New rule: Nothing outside the loop is in the "heart" of the city.

[kylejack]

New rule: When I say suburb, I mean tracts of single family houses with yards & garages, regardless of how many more suburbs there are before you get to the wilderness.

Don't make me screenshot East End and Montrose houses.

[Ethanra]

New rule: When I say suburb, I mean tracts of single family houses with yards & garages, regardless of how many more suburbs there are before you get to the wilderness. Annexation doesn't immediately convert suburban to urban, especially in a sprawling city like Houston.

New rule: Nothing outside the loop is in the "heart" of the city.

Agree 100% ... Westbury, Bellaire, Memorial, etc... are all suburbs.

[Ethanra]

By that set of standards then 3rd Ward, Heights, River Oaks, and Rice Village are all suburbs.

(STRICTLY IMO) the suburbs start where the feel of the city ends. In my case, I feel like the city dies at Westheimer & Highway 6, which puts me in the suburbs. Westbury can easily be argued that its in the heart of the city, and only minutes from everything like the Galleria, Greenway Plaza, the Medical Center, and even Downtown.

The city feel dies closer to chimney rock and westheimer. After that it is 100% strip centers and small office buildings with few exception like Memorial City. It looks and has the feel just like Mason road and just like the west oaks area.

The Heights is even a suburb of the city core. Just because an address has "Houston" in it doesn't mean it is a business urban center. Doesn't most of West Oaks have a Houston address?

I understand the importance of annexation and its purpose of keeping revenue during "white flight" but I wish the city could unannex areas outside the inner core and let these areas become there own municipalities.

[Ethanra]

M

Clear Lake is an exception. It is a fantastic area. People are very down to earth and have a great vibe. Your a min. from water and only 20 minutes from DT. Plenty of fun things to do. Some parts you can even walk up to walgreens or the neighborhood bar. All those small villages/towns are cool. Clear Lake gets a thumbs up. The only con I can see is the traffic and stuck up mini van feel at Bay Area and 45. It gets very Katy/Pearland/Cypess in that area.

[memebag]

Don't make me screenshot East End and Montrose houses.

You go right ahead. I'll link to some gritty, inner-city housing like this:

[20thStDad]

My residence and place of work is less than 5 miles apart. No need to even get on the freeway. Ever.

Nope. Nassau Bay homes are 35 to 40 years old. Many of the original NASA astronauts, and early NASA employees lived there. Nice older homes.

Nope. Not on my house. Brick with 3/4" cedar siding, that you can't even get anymore. I see more "fake stucco" in Montrose than I do in any suburban neighborhood (which would tend to have hardiplank).

Nope. My home is 29 years old. I have a huge oak tree in the backyard, that is probably much older than that. I tend to like older homes with mature trees... and there are tons of homes out there that meet that criteria.

Baybrook Mall... for those that even like going to the mall. I personally like having both Home Depot and Lowes within minutes of my house. The Sears at Baybrook is much better than the war zone/Detroit Sears on Fannin.

Don't even eat there. It is hard finding a Fudruckers... luckily, there is one near NASA.

I understand that suburbs weren't invented last year. There are many outer-city areas with great trees, older homes, and some even with some history. I lived in one growing up. My comments were mainly directed at the disgusting-ness I observed when they put together Shadow Creek Ranch, and the many new subdivisions popping up in Baton Rouge. Then again, there weren't any real trees in that mud pit (SCR) before they started. And in general, I think developers are getting lazy now. I don't think the new mega-neighborhoods are as well done as some of the older ones.

[barracuda]

Agree 100% ... Westbury, Bellaire, Memorial, etc... are all suburbs.

They are suburban-like (low density), but they are not suburbs. A suburb is defined as an outlying district of a city or town. Those are not outlying districts.

[kylejack]

You go right ahead. I'll link to some gritty, inner-city housing like this:

That's neither inner-city nor a suburb, much like many residences in the W Gray/Shepherd/Montrose/Westheimer box. There is a middle ground!

[Fringe]

When I moved to Meyerland in 62 it was a suburb. Of course there was nothing past Chimney Rock in those days. Perhaps in another 50 years we will be talking about Pearland and Sugar Land as inner-city.

[editor]

You go right ahead. I'll link to some gritty, inner-city housing like this:

Ugh. Any house design that showcases the freakin' garage screams "suburbs" to me.

[memebag]

They are suburban-like (low density), but they are not suburbs. A suburb is defined as an outlying district of a city or town. Those are not outlying districts.

The term "suburb" becomes useless if a suburb stops being a suburb when another suburb is built farther out. What word will you use for suburbs that aren't at the edge of the city? What word will you use for suburbs that lie equidistant between two cities?

That's neither inner-city nor a suburb, much like many residences in the W Gray/Shepherd/Montrose/Westheimer box. There is a middle ground!

And that middle ground is commonly called ... what?

On the "-urb" spectrum, there's urban, suburban and exurban. That house (from Westbury) isn't urban and it isn't exurban. It's text book suburban.

[editor]

The term "suburb" becomes useless if a suburb stops being a suburb when another suburb is built farther out. What word will you use for suburbs that aren't at the edge of the city? What word will you use for suburbs that lie equidistant between two cities?

I believe the word is "exurb."

[memebag]

I believe the word is "exurb."

Exurbs are less densely populated. I'm asking about suburbs that aren't at the edge of a single city, but between cities. Think Southern California between LA and San Diego, or vast stretches of the upper East Coast.

[Jeebus]

Eh.. This whole conversation has lost focus. We can't even agree on what exactly is suburban in a city like Houston.

Meme, I know it means a lot to you, but you don't live in the suburbs. Give your neighborhood more credit. The suburbs are when you have to drive 5 minutes to get to the collector road that leads you to the access road that will take you to a commercial district. Last time I checked you live in an area with a street grid with multiple means of entry and egress.

My neighborhood has one way in and one way out. EVERYONE has to take that road to leave my neighborhood. That's not the case for Westbury. If you want, you can say Westbury is a suburb of Bellaire, but its not a suburb of Houston.

They are suburban-like (low density), but they are not suburbs. A suburb is defined as an outlying district of a city or town. Those are not outlying districts.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Westbury is suburban like, as it was build as a suburb 40 years ago, but has been eclipsed by more further-out growth, and has now matured as simply a residential neighborhood for the City of Houston.

Home constuction does NOT equal suburban status. Proximal location does.

[sarahiki]

Eh.. This whole conversation has lost focus. We can't even agree on what exactly is suburban in a city like Houston.

Meme, I know it means a lot to you, but you don't live in the suburbs. Give your neighborhood more credit. The suburbs are when you have to drive 5 minutes to get to the collector road that leads you to the access road that will take you to a commercial district. Last time I checked you live in an area with a street grid with multiple means of entry and egress.

My neighborhood has one way in and one way out. EVERYONE has to take that road to leave my neighborhood. That's not the case for Westbury. If you want, you can say Westbury is a suburb of Bellaire, but its not a suburb of Houston.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Westbury is suburban like, as it was build as a suburb 40 years ago, but has been eclipsed by more further-out growth, and has now matured as simply a residential neighborhood for the City of Houston.

Home constuction does NOT equal suburban status. Proximal location does.

On what are you basing this definition? I've lived in towns all over the east coast, but it's only in Houston that I've come across these giant master-planned communities with a single entrance in or out. That may define some master-planned communities, but it does not define all suburbs. I haven't seen a good definition yet in this thread. There may not be one; older, more compact cities in the northeast are very different from sprawling sunbelt cities.

[memebag]

On what are you basing this definition? I've lived in towns all over the east coast, but it's only in Houston that I've come across these giant master-planned communities with a single entrance in or out. That may define some master-planned communities, but it does not define all suburbs. I haven't seen a good definition yet in this thread. There may not be one; older, more compact cities in the northeast are very different from sprawling sunbelt cities.

The only useful definitions are based on population density and dwelling type. Access to freeways has nothing to do with it in any of the literature I've read.

Meme, I know it means a lot to you, but you don't live in the suburbs. Give your neighborhood more credit. The suburbs are when you have to drive 5 minutes to get to the collector road that leads you to the access road that will take you to a commercial district. Last time I checked you live in an area with a street grid with multiple means of entry and egress.

Give suburbs more credit. There are a lot of suburbs in the US with street grids like this one. I grew up in one. I live in one now.

My neighborhood has one way in and one way out. EVERYONE has to take that road to leave my neighborhood. That's not the case for Westbury. If you want, you can say Westbury is a suburb of Bellaire, but its not a suburb of Houston.

Your neighborhood doesn't define what suburbs are. It's one type, but not the archetype.

I think this hits the nail on the head. Westbury is suburban like, as it was build as a suburb 40 years ago, but has been eclipsed by more further-out growth, and has now matured as simply a residential neighborhood for the City of Houston.

So what is Westbury? Urban? If so, then the word "urban" looses all meaning.

Home constuction does NOT equal suburban status. Proximal location does.

Why?

[emirate25]

Easy...anything inside the beltway is inner city...anything outside of it it's suburbs.

[kylejack]

Why?

Because a suburb is a general location, not construction style. You can't bulldoze Toyota Center, install tract-style family houses with lawns and garages and call that a suburb. Its not in the right place. There are building styles often found in the suburbs, certainly, but its their location, not the building style, that makes them a suburb.