Why some people hate the suburbs

[The Great Hizzy!]

You would think that after nearly 70 years of ongoing debate concerning this that the answers would be pretty obvious. To review: there are clearly benefits to living in the suburbs for some or even just a general subjective appeal. The opposite is true for another large percentage of the populace.

The two sides will debage, huff and puff, get indignant and self-righteous, yada, yada, yada.

But also don't be surprised to find out that a larger number of people than you'd expect doesn't have a general preference one way or another and will choose as it benefits them at a particular time and place.

[kylejack]

ROFLOL

Please, educate me on a cheap architect/contractor that can design/build me a unique home for 150k, WITHIN 30 miles of downtown, and with in 15 minutes any existing commercial development.

Good luck!

Eh, what developments is Kickerillo doing $150,000 homes in? I think we're probably not speaking the same language.

[liammclaren]

For me the problem with suburbs is that they have all the inconveniences of living in the country (long drives, bad food, nothing to do) with none of the benefits (solitude, privacy, quiet).

[Jeebus]

I can see why parents on a budget would move out to snag a better school or a bigger house/yard for kids. Also, if you work in the exurbs or just

can't pull off the finances close-in, then OK. Otherwise, downsize, pollute less and move in! Further, once the nest is empty, move in!

Finally, almost some sense has been made. This is EXACTLY why we had to move this far out. My wife and I lived in an apartment in Westchase, and even then hated living that far out. Unfortunately, we could never afford to live closer to town on the same budget, and get the same level of comfort we had in Westchase - and that was just apartment living.

When it came to purchasing a home I started at Briargrove and started heading west, past at least a dozen neighborhoods we just could afford. West Oaks Village was the closest neighborhood we could afford (AS IN WHAT I COULD REALLY PAY AND NOT CHEAT BY GETTING AN ARM AND PAYING INTEREST FOR FIVE YEARS) where we found a nice (enough) neighborhood, good (enough) schools, low crime, close amenities, and easy access to the freeway system (Westpark - 5min then to: Downtown - 25min, Med Center/Greenway - 20min, Galleria - 15min). But I've never a more than 30 minute drive from the center of downtown - if that's where my destination is.

My wife and I have talked extensively of moving into the inner-loop once we retire, but until then, we have our children to think about first, and saving money second.

Inside the loop, you're never far from: e.g., the world's largest Med Center, stadiums, universities, our four large downtowns, by FAR the most

extensive restaurant options (tastiness is a personal, subjective matter!), museums, Metrorail, the best shopping, and much more. On the flip side,

while there are myriad reasons to spend time inside the loop, why would an inner looper EVER care to visit the exurbs? They have almost nothing inner loopers need! (MUD districts, golf ?)

And you are exactly right. There are no museums, large medical centers, major sport stadiums, large universities, fancy trollies, or the "best" shopping -- but let's really break those things down:

1. Museums - We went to the zoo three times, and the natural science museum twice in 2008 - each time on a weekend where traffic was not an issue, so there was no real benefit to living inside the loop, or even inside the belt.

2. Large Medical Centers - We did not go to the hospital once this year, much less visit anyone at the hospital. We use Kelsey which has a Ft. Bend campus 15 minutes from the house. We have Sugar Land Methodist, Memorial Herman Fort Bend AND Katy, as well as Christus St. Catherine and West Houston medical center - all within a 15 minute drive.

3. Major Sport Stadiums - We did not go to one Texan's, Rocket's, Comet's, Aero's, Astro's, Dynamo, Cougar's, or Owl's game this year. We had no desire to go. If we do decide to attend a game next year, it will most likely be that: a game, 1 game. We will no hold season tickets, nor be regulars, so there is no reason to live in the loop to be close to the venue.

4. Large Universities - We don't go to school. No Benefit.

5. Metrorail - My wife uses the park & ride to go downtown. the time spent on the bus equates to a catch-up/reading/online bill-paying/quiet-time she gets to share with other business people. She drives 15 minutes to the P&R in the mornings and 15 minutes home with traffic. Even if we lived in the loop, we would most likely not be able to benefit from the existing metrorail, and she would be more inclined to drive since we "live so close". So it would still serve no benefit to live inside the loop.

I work 15 minutes away from home in a neighboring suburb.

6. "Best Shopping" - L. O. Freakin' L. News flash yuppies. My wife and I make less than 80k annually, we have a daughter with another on the way, we have a mortgage, a car note, student loans, pre-school tuition, etc etc etc. we can NOT afford the "best" shopping the inner-loop has to offer, much less the "best" dining the inner-loop has to offer. So yet again, there is no benefit for my budding family to live inside the loop.

I would estimate that this is the scenario for 70% of the families in the suburbs. We're just trying to "live the good life". We're not concerned with gourmet dinners, boutique shopping, rail-based mass-transit, proximity to hospitals, stadiums, or museums.

I think the inner-loop is GREAT for rich people, poor-people, and single people. Middle class families (if I may call mine that) just don't get the privilege of the inner-loop, and in all reality, don't need it. But please, keep it nice for when we retire, and can come join you.

[liammclaren]

They want to get away from the city center and they can afford it.

The reason they typically want to get away from the city center is that they can't afford it. Or at least they can't afford the gigantic house they want inside the loop. That's what I'm saying, it's all about square footage with suburbanites, that's all they care about. And spare me the "good schools" argument. If it were really about "good schools" they'd enroll their kids in private schools. But again, they can't afford it. So when they say "good schools" what they really mean are "public schools where the majority of students are white."

[Jeebus]

Eh, what developments is Kickerillo doing $150,000 homes in? I think we're probably not speaking the same language.

Then exactly what did you mean, and who were you referring to?

For me the problem with suburbs is that they have all the inconveniences of living in the country (long drives, bad food, nothing to do) with none of the benefits (solitude, privacy, quiet).

Are you married? Do you have children? What exactly are you doing in the city that you can't do in the suburbs? Please exclude once or twice annual examples of going to the museum or to a sporting event.

[kylejack]

Then exactly what did you mean, and who were you referring to?

Well I suppose I was referring to people who were considering building with a builder like Kickerillo in a master-planned community!

[Jeebus]

The reason they typically want to get away from the city center is that they can't afford it. Or at least they can't afford the gigantic house they want inside the loop. That's what I'm saying, it's all about square footage with suburbanites, that's all they care about. And spare me the "good schools" argument. If it were really about "good schools" they'd enroll their kids in private schools. But again, they can't afford it. So when they say "good schools" what they really mean are "public schools where the majority of students are white."

This is the biggest load of crap. I would have killed for a home inside the loop. The problem was that for $150k, my kid was going to have to share her education with apartment dwellers. Watch the news once in a while and you'll see why that's a problem for me.

Please, educate me on where I can get ANYTHING inside the loop for $150k, that is an actual home on private property that has good schools.

As for private education, that's for the rich and the lazy. Neither of which are willing to put in the time to contribute their time and attention to help the teachers of the public schools whose salary their taxes ALREADY pay. God forbid I get back some of the social services I pay for.

I agree with whoever said it earlier in the thread and will expand: if you picked your home based on architecture and/or location over your child's safety and education, then you are a jerk. If you don't have children, then please ignore.

Well I suppose I was referring to people who were considering building with a builder like Kickerillo in a master-planned community!

Which makes no sense as those are the NICEST neighborhoods IN the suburbs. Its exactly those neighborhoods that help keep my "little neighborhood that could" from sliding down in status like the newly build KB home neighborhood adjacent to mine is trying to do.

If anything, give KB builders and ilk the finger, not the nicer ones.

[barracuda]

Most of the woods that I explored with my friends as a kid was long ago replaced by beige suburban homes and fast food restaurants and other infrastructure to support them. If I am to take sides, I would argue that there is value to undeveloped open space in our world. But our frenzy to develop every nook and cranny doesn't favor this.

I think there are definite disadvantages to suburbs. The increased distance between the homes in master planned communities and places of work and business drive more dependence on fossil fuels and make mass transit far less effective. So, there is more traffic, more infrastructure required to handle it, more taxes to pay for said infrastructure, and more pollution as a result of the increased traffic.

But Houston really is just one big suburb. Homes inside the loop may be a bit closer together, but there's no denying that, outside of a few neighborhoods, the city is dependent on the automobile.

The social dynamic of suburbs is less of a problem for me as I have a choice of where to live. To me, it really comes down to containing the sprawl and saving some of the remaining open spaces, if that's possible. It just seems like there is no stopping the march of development farther and farther from the core.

[liammclaren]

This is the biggest load of crap. I would have killed for a home inside the loop. The problem was that for $150k, my kid was going to have to share her education with apartment dwellers. Watch the news once in a while and you'll see why that's a problem for me.

Please, educate me on where I can get ANYTHING inside the loop for $150k, that is an actual home on private property that has good schools.

As for private education, that's for the rich and the lazy. Neither of which are willing to put in the time to contribute their time and attention to help the teachers of the public schools whose salary their taxes ALREADY pay. God forbid I get back some of the social services I pay for.

Dude, that's exactly my point. You wanted a house inside the loop and couldn't afford it. And as far as schools go, you're telling me public schools are better than private schools? Are you serious? If it all comes down to time and attention on the part of the parents, then why don't you home school? Not willing to put in the time and attention?

[Jeebus]

Dude, that's exactly my point. You wanted a house inside the loop and couldn't afford it. And as far as schools go, you're telling me public schools are better than private schools? Are you serious? If it all comes down to time and attention on the part of the parents, then why don't you home school? Not willing to put in the time and attention?

Because then I wouldn't be able to work and even afford THIS home.

To send my kid to private school means we would have to find a cheaper home, either in a "worse" neighborhood closer in the city, or worse, a smaller home ever further out from where we are now. That or I just up my work hours from 60 to 80. Like I said before, God forbid I actually get to use one of the few social services I faithfully pay for.

Public schools can far exceed private schools when the parents will take the time to contribute and help the traditionally underfunded teachers. When the teachers can focus on teaching and not raising the children or funding the lesson, it makes a huge difference. IMO, you're not going to find parents who care in areas high in apartment complexes the same as you will in the suburbs. It all relates to the very simple saying of "birds of a feather flock together". If anyone wants to be a racist and say that suburbia = white, that's fine, but my Vietnamese, Black, Hispanic, and Indian neighbors might take issue with that. On my block, I'M the minority.

Private schools and their superior educations are just as worthless as the poorest inner-city public school educations when the parents are too busy working to pay for the education or too lazy to take an interest and their kids are left unchecked.

[Jeebus]

I think there are definite disadvantages to suburbs. The increased distance between the homes in master planned communities and places of work and business drive more dependence on fossil fuels and make mass transit far less effective. So, there is more traffic, more infrastructure required to handle it, more taxes to pay for said infrastructure, and more pollution as a result of the increased traffic.

But Houston really is just one big suburb. Homes inside the loop may be a bit closer together, but there's no denying that, outside of a few neighborhoods, the city is dependent on the automobile.

The social dynamic of suburbs is less of a problem for me as I have a choice of where to live. To me, it really comes down to containing the sprawl and saving some of the remaining open spaces, if that's possible. It just seems like there is no stopping the march of development farther and farther from the core.

I fundamentally agree with you, but honestly, even if you compress every neighborhood outside 610, would the city still not stretch for miles? We are home to over guesstimated 3+ million people outside of the 610 loop. Is there any real solution for traffic, sprawl, and other suburb issues when dealing with millions of people?

I think the only logical answer to this issue three fold: 1. commuter-rail modeled after the P&R bus system, 2. initiation of unincorporated areas to incorporate and encourage more centralized commercial growth from the center of these newly formed town centers. 3. short distance light rail/bus transit from suburbs to newly formed town centers.

This would help cut down on traffic, congestions, pollution, and fossil fuel usage. It would also encourage individual town identities to form closer, and more central to the surrounding suburb communities. This would hopefully create new jobs, and encourage businesses to anchor in these town centers, allowing employees who want to live in the suburbs to lessen their commute times and strengthen community ties.

Its all a wet pipe dream though.

[20thStDad]

Suburbs can be just fine, but I like the city for where we are right now. I bet in the near future that changes though.

One thing I don't like about the burbs is the street layouts and traffic. I feel like I zip around, not using freeways, around where I live. but going out to the burbs, the damn wide streets, left turn signals, LONG traffic signals not timed to anything, and honestly far more traffic (see FM 1960 and 518/Broadway) than I get here. Even when I'm in traffic around where we live, it's bearable. But trying to go 3 miles down the road where I work (near Pearland) and I want to start shooting people.

Suburb pros: typically bigger houses/lots, less crime, better public schools.

Suburb cons: traffic/driving, everything is new, too much fake stucco, cutting down old trees to build new homes (I NEED OLD/BIG TREES!!), shopping centers (I hate them inner loop too), and the mentality that a new Red Robin being built = exciting.

[kylejack]

Suburbs can be just fine, but I like the city for where we are right now. I bet in the near future that changes though.

One thing I don't like about the burbs is the street layouts and traffic. I feel like I zip around, not using freeways, around where I live. but going out to the burbs, the damn wide streets, left turn signals, LONG traffic signals not timed to anything, and honestly far more traffic (see FM 1960 and 518/Broadway) than I get here. Even when I'm in traffic around where we live, it's bearable. But trying to go 3 miles down the road where I work (near Pearland) and I want to start shooting people.

That deserves some underlining. Every time I leave the Loop I am horrified by the traffic I encounter and I can't get my head around people dealing with that every single day.

[Fringe]

That deserves some underlining. Every time I leave the Loop I am horrified by the traffic I encounter and I can't get my head around people dealing with that every single day.

Funny. I feel the same way when I go visit my daughter who lives in the Montrose area. Have you driven down Shepherd or Kirby or Westheimer?

[ricco67]

Although I'm a city mouse, I will give the suburbs credit for one thing: quiet.

Sure, there's the occasional bitchin' Camaro or guy woodworking in his garage at 3am, but every time I go to a suburb (maybe every other month) I always take a couple of minutes to stand very still and listen to... nothing. Glorious nothing.

The city has a hum that's part of the underlying vibrance. It's nice, and sometimes it's even comforting. But you can't escape it except on Christmas morning.

I hear ya'...literally.

Having told this story in the past, it still sounds appropriate on this thread:

Years ago, my girlfriend and I moved in together into the city in the galleria area. She moved from the 'burbs, I have always lived in the city.

First night, I slept like a baby. She was awake all night hearing all the sirens and junk.

Forward a couple of years, we move to the 'burbs.

We couldn't sleep for a few days because it was TOO quiet.

I found the 'burbs a soul sucking experience. The home architecture didn't bother me, but the whack job neighbors did.

To my left was a Coca-cola collector, that was peeved we moved our lawn a little TOO short for her tastes.

To my right was a neighbor who, for a year, would't take care of his bee problem that was on OUR property.

Behind us, was a kid that loved shooting his BB Gun all the time and claimed innocence when we found a dead bird by our birdhouse and who's father wouldn't contribute money for a quality fence when ours got knocked down during a rainstorm.

To the kid across the street that LOVED playing his radio at 6am on saturday.

No, you want peace and quiet, you hope everyone respects it, otherwise, because it might not fit in your neighbor's agenda.

In the city, you expect noise, you can easily avoid your neighbors if you want to. You adjust to it.

[kylejack]

Funny. I feel the same way when I go visit my daughter who lives in the Montrose area. Have you driven down Shepherd or Kirby or Westheimer?

Shepherd can be pretty nasty during rush hour only, other than that I disagree.

[musicman]

Every time I leave the Loop I am horrified by the traffic I encounter and I can't get my head around people dealing with that every single day.

take a drive to 59 northbound between shepherd and 288 and get back with us.

[kylejack]

take a drive to 59 northbound between shepherd and 288 and get back with us.

Yeah, that too, but I mean, why the hell would I ever be on 59 Northbound? Much faster to take Westheimer or Allen Parkway or whatever.

[Fringe]

I hear ya'...literally.

Having told this story in the past, it still sounds appropriate on this thread:

Years ago, my girlfriend and I moved in together into the city in the galleria area. She moved from the 'burbs, I have always lived in the city.

First night, I slept like a baby. She was awake all night hearing all the sirens and junk.

Forward a couple of years, we move to the 'burbs.

We couldn't sleep for a few days because it was TOO quiet.

I found the 'burbs a soul sucking experience. The home architecture didn't bother me, but the whack job neighbors did.

To my left was a Coca-cola collector, that was peeved we moved our lawn a little TOO short for her tastes.

To my right was a neighbor who, for a year, would't take care of his bee problem that was on OUR property.

Behind us, was a kid that loved shooting his BB Gun all the time and claimed innocence when we found a dead bird by our birdhouse and who's father wouldn't contribute money for a quality fence when ours got knocked down during a rainstorm.

To the kid across the street that LOVED playing his radio at 6am on saturday.

No, you want peace and quiet, you hope everyone respects it, otherwise, because it might not fit in your neighbor's agenda.

In the city, you expect noise, you can easily avoid your neighbors if you want to. You adjust to it.

This sounds more like a personal problem. Our neighbors we've had in both houses out here in Sugar Land have been fantastic. They watch over our place when we are gone and are just good people to be around. And even if we should get a bad neighbor at least our house is at least 30 feet from the closest neighbors house. How do you avoid your neighbors when their house is only 5 feet away from yours? Which seems to be the prevalent style in the inner loop.

[citizen4rmptown]

How is that any worse than living in a condo or apartment where every house is exactly the same? And why would it bother me if my neighbor had my floor plan?

We must be using different definitions of "suburb". Houston has a lot of suburbs where whites are a minority.

First of all, i think we can all agree that apartments are meant to be exactly the same. I would never expect to live an apartment where every unit is different on the outside, maybe on the inside but even so not every single one.

Theres a difference between apts. and houses. And its ok if it doesnt bother you, because it bothers me and i respect your opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs and i just happen to post mine here. Because this thread is about the disdain towards the suburbs.

BUT the only way anyone on here will agree to the reason why one would hate the burbs and why one would like them will be if we use the same examples.

For example,

I can say that Fort Bend County has no diversity.

and Someone can say alothough that may be true just go to Montgomery County for

ethnic diversity.

and thats the Great thing about living in the Houston Area, you have more than one option.

No one can argue on here about this suburb being boring with its lame strip centers, because

then someone will say that the ther suburb has a Modern mall that has all your favorite stores.

And then theres the whole exurb dilemma.

So wether your like me or someone else, you'll never win the Suburb/City argument, just because

its in Houston,land of diversity and options.

and with that, im out.

[Fringe]

I can say that Fort Bend County has no diversity.

Funny. Both my kids went to a high school here in Fort Bend which was once written up as the most diverse school in the United States. If by diverse you mean more illegal aliens then your right. HISD has us beat.

[kylejack]

This sounds more like a personal problem. Our neighbors we've had in both houses out here in Sugar Land have been fantastic. They watch over our place when we are gone

Heh,

?

[Fringe]

Heh,

?

I can only hope.

[Jeebus]

For example, I can say that Fort Bend County has no diversity. and Someone can say although that may be true just go to Montgomery County for ethnic diversity.

I think you might have gotten those two backwards..

[memebag]

The reason they typically want to get away from the city center is that they can't afford it. Or at least they can't afford the gigantic house they want inside the loop. That's what I'm saying, it's all about square footage with suburbanites, that's all they care about. And spare me the "good schools" argument. If it were really about "good schools" they'd enroll their kids in private schools. But again, they can't afford it. So when they say "good schools" what they really mean are "public schools where the majority of students are white."

I live in the suburbs. I don't have a gigantic house (1900 sq ft, built in 1965). I used to live inside the loop and paid less rent than I do now for a mortgage. I send my daughter to private school. Your sweeping statements are disproven by a single data point, which is me.

Look at any large city in history and you will see suburbs around it. They are built by people who made enough money inside the city to build a larger house outside it. For a long time they were mostly second homes, but the car and mass transit allowed people to live in them full time. These aren't cretins who were lied to by developers. They are people who want to live outside the city center.

It seems like it bothers you that some people don't want to live like you do. Why is that?

[kylejack]

I live in the suburbs. I don't have a gigantic house (1900 sq ft, built in 1965). I used to live inside the loop and paid less rent than I do now for a mortgage. I send my daughter to private school. Your sweeping statements are disproven by a single data point, which is me.

When he uses a generality like "typically" you can't disprove him with a single datapoint.

[memebag]

Most of the woods that I explored with my friends as a kid was long ago replaced by beige suburban homes and fast food restaurants and other infrastructure to support them.

How did you get from your house to the woods? Did you take public transportation? Did a parent drive you? Or did you grow up near the woods, in a suburb or exurb?

When he uses a generality like "typically" you can't disprove him with a single datapoint.

But I can when he makes sweeping generalizations like: "That's what I'm saying, it's all about square footage with suburbanites, that's all they care about."

[kylejack]

But I can when he makes sweeping generalizations like: "That's what I'm saying, it's all about square footage with suburbanites, that's all they care about."

Ah, well I assumed the "typically" carried over.

Anyway, I've found the suburbs are full of people who want to get in your business.

[memebag]

Anyway, I've found the suburbs are full of people who want to get in your business.

Then why are the people telling other people where they should live in this thread all from the anti-suburb side?