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Houston Pavilions, now Green Street

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You also seem to forget, not everyone lives in the 'burbs.

This would be better marketed to the people coming in for business or conventions, not to mention the occasional Midtowner.

Just a pity we couldn't get a hotel in there, I think it would have been more successful. :(

I agree on the hotel. I think the longer HP sites idle like it has been, the longer and more difficult it is to eventually persuade Houstonians this is a place to be.

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perhaps one can be built next door?

There's one already next door, I'm curious how many visitors HP gets from them. I would think hotel visitors like convenience, especially business travlers, so a hotel next door would benefit HP and the hotel I would think.

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I think that they would really benefit by some development on the parking lots down Dallas towards the Hilton. Has anybody heard anything about potential development in that area?

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Is Scott Gertner's Skybar not open yet? I thought it had been open fora few months now. Whats taking so long?

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Is Scott Gertner's Skybar not open yet? I thought it had been open fora few months now. Whats taking so long?

August 2011

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I wish the developer would go ahead and build the condo part over the pavilions.

Im not sure that's even possible right now... even if it is... the cost might be prohibitive.

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I wish the developer would go ahead and build the condo part over the pavilions.

pretty sure the developer is broke.

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Books-A-Million was paying $1900 for a huge space in Pavilions, and still wasn't making money. They said they were moving out and Pavilions cut them an even sweeter deal to stay. There's definitely no money for condos.

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You also seem to forget, not everyone lives in the 'burbs.

This would be better marketed to the people coming in for business or conventions, not to mention the occasional Midtowner.

Just a pity we couldn't get a hotel in there, I think it would have been more successful. :(

That's what happens when you cut so many damn corners. If the Pavilions looked like the first rendering they showed, I don't have much doubt that it would be a success. They should have kept the condo/hotel tower (just build that parking!), maybe add a 12-screen movie theater (AMC or Cinemark), add jumbotrons (with ads for the Rockets, movie ads, etc.), and probably the most important, make stores accessible from the sidewalk. There should be two entrances, one in the inside corridor, and one on the sidewalk.

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Have the developers attempted to court some sort of discount store or grocery store in it? Just think...a prototype "urban" Walmart, or maybe an H-E-B with vermaports. It has potential.

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That's what happens when you cut so many damn corners. If the Pavilions looked like the first rendering they showed, I don't have much doubt that it would be a success. They should have kept the condo/hotel tower (just build that parking!), maybe add a 12-screen movie theater (AMC or Cinemark), add jumbotrons (with ads for the Rockets, movie ads, etc.), and probably the most important, make stores accessible from the sidewalk. There should be two entrances, one in the inside corridor, and one on the sidewalk.

MisterX strongly disagrees with your post! we should all stop our complaining b/c hey, at least the parking lots are gone! what an ungrateful lot around here....

:)

but that;s exactly what should have happened. the developers were able to turn what should have been a transformative block of cbd into what has amounted to little more than an outdoor mall with an office building attached. i'm glad the city is trying to force them to open up the sidewalks. i mean the fact that they didn't do that to begin with (as shown in their own renderings) is almost mindblowing. probably the single biggest goal of a development like this (outside of turning a profit) is to increase pedestrian activity, to draw the surrounding people to the complex... and they literally went in the other direction. the developer deserves to be broke.

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swtsig agrees with your post (no offense Trae). We should all keep up the complaining and then the developer will tear down this version of HP and build a new one just for disgruntled HAIFers. Seriously, if typing complaints on the internet about a project which has already been built can make HP be a better place to visit, then by all means keep typing and bitching.

I know HP could have been better, but besides the positive of replacing vacant lots, the other positive (a dirty word at HAIF) that might come out of HP not having the residential component COULD be that the near by vacant lots to the east of HP may one day be a draw to developers wanting to cash in on having residential proximity to HP. The hotels and condos that didn't get built on top of HP could very well be built next to HP and fill some vacant lots. Whereas if HP built hotels and residential, it might keep those other vacant lots empty forever.

Another positive (excuse my language) is that now there is something to work with on those blocks. Really, it is a miracle that anything was built there at all - especially now. Instead of discussing ways to make HP better we could very well be discussing what pie in the sky ideas we all WISH somebody would build on those 3 vacant blocks which could have easily remained empty for the rest of our lives.

Yes. I'm glad HP is there. Now at least there is something to fight about. Maybe swtsig's idea of what HP should have been will go up on the 3 vacant lots directly east of HP.

Edited by Mister X
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I'm glad Pavilions is there, but why should that stop be from bitching about missed opportunities that the developer had?

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I'm glad Pavilions is there, but why should that stop be from bitching about missed opportunities that the developer had?

Go ahead. Just see where that gets you.

Maybe you can get the city to force HP to get jumbotrons - it couldn't hurt. Maybe with enuf bitching they will even build a big residential tower on top. Maybe the broke developers can start printing their own money.

I personally think it's a bit late for crying over it, but you never know. While your at it - see if you can get 10 more stories put on top of Hess Tower too.

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Go ahead. Just see where that gets you.

Maybe you can get the city to force HP to get jumbotrons - it couldn't hurt. Maybe with enuf bitching they will even build a big residential tower on top. Maybe the broke developers can start printing their own money.

I personally think it's a bit late for crying over it, but you never know. While your at it - see if you can get 10 more stories put on top of Hess Tower too.

It's an Internet forum... What do you expect? I hope the pavillions stays healthy enough to not become vacant. The lots south of it could spur promising developemnts in the future, and will hopefully feed each other the volume.

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Books-A-Million was paying $1900 for a huge space in Pavilions, and still wasn't making money. They said they were moving out and Pavilions cut them an even sweeter deal to stay. There's definitely no money for condos.

That big store is that cheap, can't be?!?!?

That's the price of a 3 bedroom apartment in some places.

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That big store is that cheap, can't be?!?!?

That's the price of a 3 bedroom apartment in some places.

They desperately need an anchor there to be able to draw people into the rest of the complex.

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what's the word on scott gertner's?

Walked by there last week, it's still under construction....you can see inside, it's pretty much a wide open space right now...not sure if that's how it will be when finished...also couldn't tell where the outdoor portion will be, assumed it was directly above, but couldnt see anything going on up there...

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The latest estimate he posted is an August opening of the first floor with the second floor not finishing until Fall.

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From Wells Fargo tower:

img0792mr.jpg

Edited by Jax

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So. Six years later. Was this really worth nearly 5,000 posts?

What is the value of a post?

Edited by kylejack
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What is the value of a post?

$0.02

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Hrm... so... does this mean our investment will grow every time someone posts?

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Hrm... so... does this mean our investment will grow every time someone posts?

Depends on who and what they post. Some have more value than others. :)

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Depends on who and what they post. Some have more value than others. :)

Oh good... I hope it grows in leaps and bounds!

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While $100 ($0.02 x 5000) doesn't sound like much, I think that is what Books-a-Million is paying in rent this year.

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What is the value of a post?

That depends on what your time is worth. Obviously mine is not worth much or I wouldn't have posted this.

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While $100 ($0.02 x 5000) doesn't sound like much, I think that is what Books-a-Million is paying in rent this year.

And now that Borders is going away, Books A Million may be getting more bang for its buck out of its HP location.

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And now that Borders is going away, Books A Million may be getting more bang for its buck out of its HP location.

I hope so. I go to the downtown location from time to time.

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I hope so. I go to the downtown location from time to time.

Me too. HP was a neat idea, hopefully they'll get more tenants eventually.

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Nah, it will tank as people just sit on the couches and read the books for free and look important while they suck up the free wi-fi on their laptops.

My book buying habits have changed considerably in the last two years. Almost everything I buy goes to my kindle, but things that I use for research I keep in actual book form and keep on my shelf.

Unless they change it up the business model, the popular bookstores are going to go the way of blockbuster.

edit: damn auto correct

Edited by ricco67

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Nah, it will tank as people just sit on the couches and read the books for free and look important while they suck up the free wi-fi on their laptops.

My book buying habits have changed considerably in the last two years. Almost everything I buy goes to my kindle, but things that I use for research I keep in actual book form and keep on my shelf.

Unless they change it up the business model, the popular bookstores are going to go the way of blockbuster.

edit: damn auto correct

This is correct. I think the only book stores left that we will see in the future will be the ones that sell the rare, expensive books.

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This is correct. I think the only book stores left that we will see in the future will be the ones that sell the rare, expensive books.

Or specialized reference books or pornography.

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This is correct. I think the only book stores left that we will see in the future will be the ones that sell the rare, expensive books.

Yes, the only bookstores I go to are Half Price Books (Old and Interesting section only) and Quarter Price Books on Shepherd, which has so many amazing gems. Also, places that sell technical reference books, like Brown Book Shop downtown. http://www.brownbookshop.com/

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Yes, the only bookstores I go to are Half Price Books (Old and Interesting section only) and Quarter Price Books on Shepherd, which has so many amazing gems. Also, places that sell technical reference books, like Brown Book Shop downtown. http://www.brownbookshop.com/

I'm rather curious as to how business is while everyone going to "E" route. To my knowledge, these books aren't exactly what I would call "light reading."

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I used to work in a Hastings and it was clear they are really trending away from being exclusively a book and video store to something else as a response to technology.

Our store got a HUGE new section selling everything from T-shirts, guitars and music gear, memorabilia, etc. They even had skateboard decks. To add this they dramatically shrunk the DVD area. They had a lot of stuff you'd find in a Hot Topic, or perhaps a more family-friendly version of Spencer's Gifts. Most of this merchandise would appeal to teenagers or college students.

To me this makes a lot of sense, as Hastings as a chain is really prevalent in smaller cities and towns like say, Clovis, NM. They'd have no other bricks and mortar competition selling this kind of merchandise in places like that.

Compare this to your typical Borders. Whole floors of dead tree. Books, books and more books. Expensive newly printed ones like you wouldn't spend money on if the local Half-Price had it. Its where you go to kill time when you are shopping with someone of the opposite sex who wants to look in another mall store you find boring, but not actually buy anything.

Edited by zaphod

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Several of the news articles analyzing the Borders collapse said that because Barnes and Noble got to work on the Kindle and an online presence sooner, B&N adapted to modern times better than Borders did.

I'm not sure how Books A Million is adapting. They had to have done something that prevented them from collapsing like Borders did.

Also Downtown and Katy Mills are Books A Million's only locations in the Houston area.

Nah, it will tank as people just sit on the couches and read the books for free and look important while they suck up the free wi-fi on their laptops.

My book buying habits have changed considerably in the last two years. Almost everything I buy goes to my kindle, but things that I use for research I keep in actual book form and keep on my shelf.

Unless they change it up the business model, the popular bookstores are going to go the way of blockbuster.

edit: damn auto correct

Edited by VicMan

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Rut-Row! Houston Pavilions, which took $14.3 milllion in TIRZ money from the City, is now in receivership to a bank that took over a failed bank from receivership.

When will Houston learn, downtown is for office buildings and hotels, not entertainment-driven retail?

To quote myself from November of 2006:

I can't believe that I'm doing this, but it seems like I need to ask a question. One previously asked by Plastic. wacko.gif

Why do we place so much importance on redeveloping downtown Houston? Why are we willing to throw so much money at it? Honestly, for what?

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Spoke with a source, and Gertners should be open by the end of January. possibly a little before.

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