Jump to content

Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street


guess

Recommended Posts

This should have been expected - recession or not. These type of developments are not organic, and when implanted in areas where there is no real NEED (not want or desire) they always fail. The difference will be whether the management company will be smart enough to do like the Park Shops and rebound with parcels that cater to the downtown day-time crowd, eg. restaurants & service oriented businesses. Retail will suffer here until the residential element grows.

From what I can tell, B-A-M is hanging in there... no crowds of people flocking to it, but they have been making some sales.

I still maintain that even in its sucky and incomplete state, HP is a good move for Downtown. We have enough Convention business to warrant some form of RETAIL that stays open past 6pm. I'm really sorry to see Lidz and Journeys go, but this is an opportunity for HP to rethink its retail scheme, and try to lure some more suitable tenants. I'm happy that they took a chance and built this thing... at least we've got a glut of retail space in downtown now.

They're going to have to rethink the look of it tho. HOB, B-A-M and XXI all benefit from having some street-facing signage, and I truly think this is what killed Lidz and Journeys. You literally don't know how to get to those stores, and no one is going to find them unless they walk the whole length of the complex. If HP wants consumers for the non-anchor stores, they're going to have to get to signs that reflect the store's location.

BTW... it looks like Lucky Strike has postponed to Summer 09, and they've decreased the staff at Houston Pavilions. I hate job cuts!!!

Edited by totheskies
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're going to have to rethink the look of it tho. HOB, B-A-M and XXI all benefit from having some street-facing signage, and I truly think this is what killed Lidz and Journeys. You literally don't know how to get to those stores, and no one is going to find them unless they walk the whole length of the complex.

Also, who wants to pay ten dollars for parking to go buy some shoes when there are few other retail offerings in the area?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps some of the problem lies in advertisement? No one that I've spoken to (around Galv Co.) about the development even knows it exists. I'm only aware of it because I'm a HAIF geek.

I think they're waiting until they have something to advertise. Once they get some bars, I can see them throwing out some advertising, because it will then be a place where you can go for dinner followed by drinks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I have a little bit of bad news(well a lot of terrible news really)...walked around this evening with some friends and workers were boarding up the "previous" Lids store...and then we walked past Journeys and saw they had tons of boxes of inventory, but upon further look it turns out they're mailing product out to other stores...so it looks like they'll be boarding that one up pretty soon. :( I really hope the restaurants can weather out this recession and hopefully we won't see any more stores close before this topic moves out of the "Going Up" category :P

Wow, that was fast. What kind of lease lets you leave after only 4 months. Must have been worth paying the penalty than wasting money with rent and employees.

It would be interesting to see what kind of daily sales Lids had. $0 some days?

Just went to their website too, and there are no references to the HP location in Houston anymore.

The Pavilions deserve a "E! True Hollywood" type documentary. The rise and fall of a development within 3 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, who wants to pay ten dollars for parking to go buy some shoes when there are few other retail offerings in the area?

Too true. If it where me, I'd create a "seasons of Houston" store to appeal to all the festivals and big events that we have here. Have some of the normal tourist stuff like NASA collectibles, Texas junk. But then you also have a current calendar of all the stuff going on in the city, like a events planner for visitors. The seasonal display would feature big events like the Bayou City Arts Festival, Art Car Parade, or the Rodeo... I bet a lot of people would love to go to a "Rodeo Ready shop where they can get all of their Western gear in one place.

That's the kind of stuff that would do well in Houston Pavilions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, who wants to pay ten dollars for parking to go buy some shoes when there are few other retail offerings in the area?

BINGO. Which means they should focus on:

I think they're waiting until they have something to advertise. Once they get some bars, I can see them throwing out some advertising, because it will then be a place where you can go for dinner followed by drinks.

..which I think would better suit downtown and give people more motivation to park (think: Village Arcade parking garage). In the meantime..

From what I can tell, B-A-M is hanging in there... no crowds of people flocking to it, but they have been making some sales.

I still maintain that even in its sucky and incomplete state, HP is a good move for Downtown. We have enough Convention business to warrant some form of RETAIL that stays open past 6pm. I'm really sorry to see Lidz and Journeys go, but this is an opportunity for HP to rethink its retail scheme, and try to lure some more suitable tenants. I'm happy that they took a chance and built this thing... at least we've got a glut of retail space in downtown now.

They're going to have to rethink the look of it tho. HOB, B-A-M and XXI all benefit from having some street-facing signage, and I truly think this is what killed Lidz and Journeys. You literally don't know how to get to those stores, and no one is going to find them unless they walk the whole length of the complex. If HP wants consumers for the non-anchor stores, they're going to have to get to signs that reflect the store's location.

I do want the Pavilions to succeed! I think most national chains that attempt to open here are coming in knowing they won't turn a profit for a while. I think the hope is that once they do start making money, they'll be in on the ground floor and won't have to worry about inflated rents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do want the Pavilions to succeed! I think most national chains that attempt to open here are coming in knowing they won't turn a profit for a while. I think the hope is that once they do start making money, they'll be in on the ground floor and won't have to worry about inflated rents.

You could look at it that way, or you could look at it from the perspective of tenants that opened on time, that they already locked in a relatively high rent for space in a super-premium anchored shopping center, except that it turned out not to draw super-premium volumes of traffic because the anchors weren't in place as planned and because the economy turned out to be sucky, with many corporations downtown making or contemplating layoffs. Plus, they probably had an escalation clause in their lease pegging the annual increase in rent to some measure of inflation, which looks to be pretty high in the coming couple of years.

And I don't know what the financial condition of the developer is, but I do know that occupancy is not where they wanted it to be and I also know that most retail owners and developers are hurting right now and have been for a while now. That is to say, their willingness and ability to renegotiate leases here so as to retain struggling tenants may be impaired.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, at least its not a parking lot, right?

I'd rather that--and that the City got to keep its many millions of dollars of subsidy--than that we end up with a low-rise shopping center with excessive vacancy on sites where highrises should have one day gone.

But then, I've been saying that for years now and nobody has taken me seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not sure. that was the email i got yesterday. i guess it had just happened.

I used to do some promotional things for them (running free poker tournament) and I understood that they owned the building and only a small portion of the adjoining parking lot. Maybe a repo. Anyway, I find this news kind of surprising. They usually had a pretty good crowd, particularly weekends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait a minute wait a minute... there was a SPORTS bar in there? Really????

Nope, he's talking about on Main Street at Preston, across the street from Mia Bella, Notsuoh, and Dean's Credit Clothing. Many many bars have failed in this immediate area, but Live Sports Cafe managed to hang on for a long time.

Edited by kylejack
Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW... it looks like Lucky Strike has postponed to Summer 09, and they've decreased the staff at Houston Pavilions. I hate job cuts!!!

where did you hear that? The article just said it was on hold. No date or anything, which leads me to believe that it might end up being a D.O.A :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked the idea of the Pavilions that was first proposed.

I don't much care for the current project although quite a few folks I know have enjoyed the HOB.

That said, I think it's still too early to write it off as a disaster.

Seriously, how big of a deal is it to lose Lids? You can find that store anywhere including airport terminals. That was NOT a destination store to put it mildly.

Now, IF Lucky Strike or some variation of it doesn't get built, then we can start to talk. If that fails to go in, then there will be serious trouble because that was a unique venue that would have drawn people to the development.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked the idea of the Pavilions that was first proposed.

I don't much care for the current project although quite a few folks I know have enjoyed the HOB.

That said, I think it's still too early to write it off as a disaster.

Seriously, how big of a deal is it to lose Lids? You can find that store anywhere including airport terminals. That was NOT a destination store to put it mildly.

Now, IF Lucky Strike or some variation of it doesn't get built, then we can start to talk. If that fails to go in, then there will be serious trouble because that was a unique venue that would have drawn people to the development.

Agreed...Lucky Strike's needs to go through, and frankly HP should look at investing. They need Lucky Strike for this thing to be a success or have any ability for it to succeed. LS was a significant differentiator for this development and it would have been enough of a night time draw for 21+ crowd that did not want to go to the bar or did not like the performers at HOB....

I hate to say it but that was one of the critical pieces to this entire deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they should put in some night clubs. I would like that, It would be like Club Poetry in Las Vegas, it in that expensive mall/Casino, I forgot the name, but it looks like your outside because the ceiling is like a sky and gets dark at night.

Night clubs are probably reluctant to enter downtown Houston with all the night clubs that went under on Main St.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, that's the mattress store. It'll be next to the cell phone store.

Yes, we've had a thread on this, but it won't just be any cell phone store (AT&T/Sprint/T-Mobile/Verizon)

It has to be Cricket, Boost Mobile or some other pre-pay/no credit check provider.

Sorry, I know there is a very happy Cricket customer here. . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i've read a few places that lucky strike is out of money and will not be opening up in the pavillions at all. what do you guys think of this? is the pavillions doomed?

dream

Well Dream... it's a nightmare. Their management should have timed this better. I think this is not good news at all. To say the least, yes, it's doomed.

Edited by LTAWACS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to seem overly and constantly negative, or like chicken little, or like some bozo loser who got beat up a lot in high school, but I bet Houston Pavilions gets cancelled and torn down any day now. Who would have thought the entire fate of downtown (and yes, the entire city of Houston) would ever rest with a bunch of yuppie bowlers.

And this is only the beginning. I've heard that the economy is so bad that they are actually going to start dismantling Williams Tower, Discovery Green and the Galleria.

I bet everyone in Houston is going to be laid off this year. Great Depression II will probably never end in Houston. But sit back and watch Dallas and Atlanta continue to get all these cool projects while Houston sits stagnant! I bet all our pro teams move away soon too! Will this torturous existence ever end!

Me and 'WACS told you so. :wacko: :wacko:

Edited by Mister X
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to seem overly and constantly negative, or like chicken little, or like some bozo loser who got beat up a lot in high school, but I bet Houston Pavilions gets cancelled and torn down any day now. Who would have thought the entire fate of downtown (and yes, the entire city of Houston) would ever rest with a bunch of yuppie bowlers.

And this is only the beginning. I've heard that the economy is so bad that they are actually going to start dismantling Williams Tower, Discovery Green and the Galleria.

I bet everyone in Houston is going to be laid off this year. Great Depression II will probably never end in Houston. But sit back and watch Dallas and Atlanta continue to get all these cool projects while Houston sits stagnant! I bet all our pro teams move away soon too! Will this torturous existence ever end!

Me and 'WACS told you so. :wacko::wacko:

Nah, HP has at least 3 more years to piss away money IMO. Even if it completely failed, it would sit idle rather than be torn down IMO. There is still plenty of parking lots that want to be converted into new construction in downtown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to seem overly and constantly negative, or like chicken little, or like some bozo loser who got beat up a lot in high school, but I bet Houston Pavilions gets cancelled and torn down any day now. Who would have thought the entire fate of downtown (and yes, the entire city of Houston) would ever rest with a bunch of yuppie bowlers.

And this is only the beginning. I've heard that the economy is so bad that they are actually going to start dismantling Williams Tower, Discovery Green and the Galleria.

I bet everyone in Houston is going to be laid off this year. Great Depression II will probably never end in Houston. But sit back and watch Dallas and Atlanta continue to get all these cool projects while Houston sits stagnant! I bet all our pro teams move away soon too! Will this torturous existence ever end!

Me and 'WACS told you so. :wacko::wacko:

haha good stuff! that is what i feel like i am reading in every post "they" make! ha!~

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to seem overly and constantly negative, or like chicken little, or like some bozo loser who got beat up a lot in high school, but I bet Houston Pavilions gets cancelled and torn down any day now. Who would have thought the entire fate of downtown (and yes, the entire city of Houston) would ever rest with a bunch of yuppie bowlers.

And this is only the beginning. I've heard that the economy is so bad that they are actually going to start dismantling Williams Tower, Discovery Green and the Galleria.

I bet everyone in Houston is going to be laid off this year. Great Depression II will probably never end in Houston. But sit back and watch Dallas and Atlanta continue to get all these cool projects while Houston sits stagnant! I bet all our pro teams move away soon too! Will this torturous existence ever end!

Me and 'WACS told you so. :wacko: :wacko:

LOL Well said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • The title was changed to Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...