Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street

[KinkaidAlum]

Hold your horses, there buddy. The 32% number you quote is indeed for the City of Boston only. For Boston metro ("Greater Boston") is in 11% See the actual source of information:

US Census Bureau

US Census Bureau re: Boston (City of)

Considering that the 11% figure includes far flung towns in Southern New Hampshire, towns that border Rhode Island, and even towns on Cape Cod, it isn't that hard to believe. Not every place should have quality transit options because that would just encourage more sprawl.

Here are the facts and figures for Boston and the cities and towns which have subway, light rail, ferry, and bus service. The population estimates are for 2007 and the commuting patterns from 2003. They are ranked by total % of workers who ride transit, walk, or carpool to work.

CAMBRDIGE

101,388 population

33.2% use public transit for work commute

54.8% public transit, walk, or carpool

BOSTON

599,351

32.3%

54.5%

BROOKLINE

54,809

30.7%

51.3%

SOMERVILLE

74,405

29.2%

49.1%

CHELSEA

38,203

24.9%

49.0%

EVERETT

37,269

19.9%

37.9%

MALDEN

55,712

23.7%

37.5%

REVERE

55,341

20.8%

35.4%

QUINCY

91,622

25.4%

34.9%

MEDFORD

55,565

18.1%

32.0%

WATERTOWN

32,521

15.1%

28.2%

LYNN

87,122

9.3%

27.1%

NEWTON

83,271

12.3%

24.0%

WALTHAM

59,758

8.5%

23.6

TOTAL AREA

1,426,337

27.2%

45.9%

[TheNiche]

Not every place should have quality transit options because that would just encourage more sprawl.

Do you honestly believe this tripe? Or are you just trolling for the kind of response that'll get me banned from HAIF?

[desirous]

Do you honestly believe this tripe? Or are you just trolling for the kind of response that'll get me banned from HAIF?

It's so outlandish, you need not get riled up by it. I could see how it's hypothetically true -- if, through a divine act of God, there is suddenly light rail everywhere in greater Houston, many people would be dissatisfied. Case closed.

Houston is too big of a city to have only a 7 mile rail system. If you don't want rail, than don't live in the core. If you think Houston is a great walkable city when you have so many streets without sidewalks and not much pedestrian traffic,than your wrong.

I don't think anybody thinks Houston is a very walkable city -- I live downtown and still drive to places. Guess what? All my friends are in the burbs. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with driving. It's a free democracy; if you like urbanity, vote with your real estate choice; if you like rail, vote with your Q Card. Then vote for the rail propositions and make sure all your neighbors do too.

Edited August 4, 2008 by desirous

[madmann101]

It's so outlandish, you need not get riled up by it. I could see how it's hypothetically true -- if, through a divine act of God, there is suddenly light rail everywhere in greater Houston, many people would be dissatisfied. Case closed.

I don't think anybody thinks Houston is a very walkable city -- I live downtown and still drive to places. Guess what? All my friends are in the burbs. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with driving. It's a free democracy; if you like urbanity, vote with your real estate choice; if you like rail, vote with your Q Card. Then vote for the rail propositions and make sure all your neighbors do too.

I never said driving should be banned. I'm just stating that Houston is a very big city and it's about time it got some serious LRT going. I'm moving to Houston in August and I can't take my car for the 1st semester of college, so I have to ride the bus, but I'd honestly rather ride rail. I just enjoy the fact that it moves faster with lesser stops.

[desirous]

Good luck. Let me know when you need a ride.

Does anybody know how many parking spaces HP will have? The unique problem with retail downtown is that parking is a huge hassle for visitors. Nobody wants to pay for parking.

[Houston19514]

Considering that the 11% figure includes far flung towns in Southern New Hampshire, towns that border Rhode Island, and even towns on Cape Cod, it isn't that hard to believe. Not every place should have quality transit options because that would just encourage more sprawl.

Here are the facts and figures for Boston and the cities and towns which have subway, light rail, ferry, and bus service. The population estimates are for 2007 and the commuting patterns from 2003. They are ranked by total % of workers who ride transit, walk, or carpool to work.

CAMBRDIGE

101,388 population

33.2% use public transit for work commute

54.8% public transit, walk, or carpool

BOSTON

599,351

32.3%

54.5%

BROOKLINE

54,809

30.7%

51.3%

SOMERVILLE

74,405

29.2%

49.1%

CHELSEA

38,203

24.9%

49.0%

EVERETT

37,269

19.9%

37.9%

MALDEN

55,712

23.7%

37.5%

REVERE

55,341

20.8%

35.4%

QUINCY

91,622

25.4%

34.9%

MEDFORD

55,565

18.1%

32.0%

WATERTOWN

32,521

15.1%

28.2%

LYNN

87,122

9.3%

27.1%

NEWTON

83,271

12.3%

24.0%

WALTHAM

59,758

8.5%

23.6

TOTAL AREA

1,426,337

27.2%

45.9%

<yawn> Is that your round-about way of saying that the statement you made earlier was incorrect? (The metropolitan area includes what it includes. You flatly stated that the 32% number applied to the "greater Boston area" and then told us that the "greater Boston area" was the same as "Boston Metro area".) Anyhoo, I'm not sure why we are supposed to be excited about the use of mass transit by Bostonians and certain carefully selected its suburbs.

[memebag]

I never said driving should be banned. I'm just stating that Houston is a very big city and it's about time it got some serious LRT going. I'm moving to Houston in August and I can't take my car for the 1st semester of college, so I have to ride the bus, but I'd honestly rather ride rail. I just enjoy the fact that it moves faster with lesser stops.

If rail is important, why did you decide to move to Houston?

[Trae]

If rail is important, why did you decide to move to Houston?

What the hell is wrong with wanting rail in Houston?

[KinkaidAlum]

<yawn> Is that your round-about way of saying that the statement you made earlier was incorrect? (The metropolitan area includes what it includes. You flatly stated that the 32% number applied to the "greater Boston area" and then told us that the "greater Boston area" was the same as "Boston Metro area".) Anyhoo, I'm not sure why we are supposed to be excited about the use of mass transit by Bostonians and certain carefully selected its suburbs.

Yawn? What are you, 13?

The Niche's first claim was that "even in Boston, only about 11% of people commute using any kind of public transportation."

That was wrong. In 2006, 31.7% of Bostonians commuted by using bus, light rail, ferry, or subway service. I provided links showing that usage rates have blown up with the price of gas since then. Boston has just a few thousand more people than the Inner Loop of Houston. Imagine if 3 out of every 10 people used public transit in Houston's Inner Loop. That would take a lot of cars off of the road. That was my initial point.

The Niche then claimed he was talking about the MSA of Boston. That's all good and well, but there are many places in the MSA which don't receive MBTA service. I am not sure how people are supposed to use public transit when it isn't offered to them! That was my second point and why I listed the towns and cities which receive extensive MBTA service. Additionally, many areas of Boston's MSA have their own regional bus service. Brockton, Cape Ann, Attleboro-Taunton, Lowell, Merrimack Valley, Montachusett, and Worcester are the areas that have their own service and whose riders wouldn't be reflected in the MBTA's figures. The MBTA serves a region which is called "Greater Boston." The cities and towns in 'Greater Boston" that received either bus, light rail, subway, and/or ferry service were listed in my post above (that I could find figures for). In these cities and towns, public transit usage averaged out to about 27% from a population of over 1.4 million people. Again, this number is MUCH higher than the 11% figure given by the Niche to support his point.

That is why I posted what I did. I believe in providing a solid public transit system because it eventually can help reduce congestion by taking cars off of the road. That is why I support the light rail expansion and do not appreciate fabrications by the Niche to make a point.

Edited August 4, 2008 by KinkaidAlum

[musicman]

Does anybody know how many parking spaces HP will have?

~1600 spaces.

[memebag]

What the hell is wrong with wanting rail in Houston?

Nothing, Mr. Buttinsky. I was asking madmann101 for the reasons he chose Houston, reasons that apparently outweigh his desire for rail transport.

[Trae]

Buttinsky?

[desirous]

Buttinsky?

That sounds vaguely Polish when pronounced correctly.

Nothing, Mr. Buttinsky. I was asking madmann101 for the reasons he chose Houston, reasons that apparently outweigh his desire for rail transport.

Maybe for a reason similar to mine, for moving back down from Chicago: I get a posh 1-1 in the Rice for the same price as my roach-infested dump in downtown Chicago.

Besides, Houston's got the best Chinese food between the two coasts, and the chode of a rail line isn't bad when you live next to a station.

[GovernorAggie]

Back on topic...

T-Minus 2 months or so until Pavilions opens.

[houstonfella]

Yay!!! Oct. is right around the corner.

HOB Grand Opening

[brian0123]

Yay!!! Oct. is right around the corner.

HOB Grand Opening

Just curious, but do you all think the HOB will be a Warehouse Live killer... just like Warehouse Live was an Engine Room killer?

[ricco67]

Just curious, but do you all think the HOB will be a Warehouse Live killer... just like Warehouse Live was an Engine Room killer?

I don't think that will be the case, it'll just add another venue for performers to go to. HOB probably charges more for its venue than WHL or Merdian. Also, The Continental Club is building a place as well, remember?

[wernicke]

We need more live music options in Houston.

[TheNiche]

Yawn? What are you, 13?

The Niche's first claim was that "even in Boston, only about 11% of people commute using any kind of public transportation."

That was wrong. In 2006, 31.7% of Bostonians commuted by using bus, light rail, ferry, or subway service. I provided links showing that usage rates have blown up with the price of gas since then. Boston has just a few thousand more people than the Inner Loop of Houston. Imagine if 3 out of every 10 people used public transit in Houston's Inner Loop. That would take a lot of cars off of the road. That was my initial point.

The Niche then claimed he was talking about the MSA of Boston. That's all good and well, but there are many places in the MSA which don't receive MBTA service. I am not sure how people are supposed to use public transit when it isn't offered to them! That was my second point and why I listed the towns and cities which receive extensive MBTA service. Additionally, many areas of Boston's MSA have their own regional bus service. Brockton, Cape Ann, Attleboro-Taunton, Lowell, Merrimack Valley, Montachusett, and Worcester are the areas that have their own service and whose riders wouldn't be reflected in the MBTA's figures. The MBTA serves a region which is called "Greater Boston." The cities and towns in 'Greater Boston" that received either bus, light rail, subway, and/or ferry service were listed in my post above (that I could find figures for). In these cities and towns, public transit usage averaged out to about 27% from a population of over 1.4 million people. Again, this number is MUCH higher than the 11% figure given by the Niche to support his point.

That is why I posted what I did. I believe in providing a solid public transit system because it eventually can help reduce congestion by taking cars off of the road. That is why I support the light rail expansion and do not appreciate fabrications by the Niche to make a point.

In the post to which you had initially objected (#3586), I identified my source, the geography of interest, and intentionally DID NOT capitalize the word "city", which would otherwise indicate that I were referring to a municipality. See below.

Making any kind of comparison between a City as ridiculously huge as Houston and a City as small as Boston is intellectually dishonest...like when the Greater Houston Partnership tries to boast that the City of Houston has the fourth largest population of any City in the country or that we have the second greatest number of Fortune 500 headquarters. I use metropolitan areas because they allow for more valid, apples-to-apples, comparisons.

If you still feel that I'm making fabrications, report me to the moderator. Get me banned from HAIF on the grounds that I violated the guidelines and terms of service by spreading misinformation.

According to the Census Bureau's 2006 American Community Survey, there is no statistically meaningful difference (approx. 6 to 12 seconds) in average commute times between the Los Angeles, Boston, or Houston metropolitan areas.

I don't dispute the higher efficacy of a train system in a more centralized city as opposed to a more decentralized city, however I would dispute that that necessarily makes them more commuter-friendly in a general sense. Not many people actually ride trains. Even in Boston, only about 11% of people commute using any kind of public transportation.

Edited August 5, 2008 by TheNiche

[Houston19514]

Yawn? What are you, 13?

The Niche's first claim was that "even in Boston, only about 11% of people commute using any kind of public transportation."

That was wrong. In 2006, 31.7% of Bostonians commuted by using bus, light rail, ferry, or subway service. I provided links showing that usage rates have blown up with the price of gas since then. Boston has just a few thousand more people than the Inner Loop of Houston. Imagine if 3 out of every 10 people used public transit in Houston's Inner Loop. That would take a lot of cars off of the road. That was my initial point.

The Niche then claimed he was talking about the MSA of Boston. That's all good and well, but there are many places in the MSA which don't receive MBTA service. I am not sure how people are supposed to use public transit when it isn't offered to them! That was my second point and why I listed the towns and cities which receive extensive MBTA service. Additionally, many areas of Boston's MSA have their own regional bus service. Brockton, Cape Ann, Attleboro-Taunton, Lowell, Merrimack Valley, Montachusett, and Worcester are the areas that have their own service and whose riders wouldn't be reflected in the MBTA's figures. The MBTA serves a region which is called "Greater Boston." The cities and towns in 'Greater Boston" that received either bus, light rail, subway, and/or ferry service were listed in my post above (that I could find figures for). In these cities and towns, public transit usage averaged out to about 27% from a population of over 1.4 million people. Again, this number is MUCH higher than the 11% figure given by the Niche to support his point.

That is why I posted what I did. I believe in providing a solid public transit system because it eventually can help reduce congestion by taking cars off of the road. That is why I support the light rail expansion and do not appreciate fabrications by the Niche to make a point.

Your revisionist history is entertaining, but not convincing. The record shows that YOU claimed that the 32% number applied to the Boston metro area, not just the city of Boston. I do not appreciate fabrications. You seem to have a sliding scale . . .

[KinkaidAlum]

I am glad you find me entertaining.

I admit my initial claim that the figures were for Greater Boston was in error. I have no problem admitting that. I simply thought that the Boston Globe would be reporting MBTA figures which covers much more than the City of Boston.

Now, will the Niche admit that his first post claiming only 11% of people in Boston (notice the capital was in error as well or do you not have a problem with the original claim?

[HtownWxBoy]

Yay!!! Oct. is right around the corner.

HOB Grand Opening

Woo hoo!

[TheNiche]

Now, will the Niche admit that his first post claiming only 11% of people in Boston (notice the capital was in error as well or do you not have a problem with the original claim?

If I started typing out Boston-Quincy-Cambridge MSA (notice that all words in the proper name are capitalized even though I'm not referring to any one of them as an independent entity), it would just seem to most (competent) HAIFers like I were talking down to them...most of them seem to know better than to compare municipalities or think that I would after having already referenced statistics by MSA. You don't seem to grasp that concept...or more likely just relish an opportunity at being assinine.

Troll be gone!

[madmann101]

If rail is important, why did you decide to move to Houston?

I love Houston and it's my favorite city in Texas! I can live without rail,but I just think rail would be a lot more helpful. I'm also moving there to attend college and get away from Waco and bad memories here. I'd choose Dallas, but Houston just seems like more of a better choice for me and also have tons of family there.

Edited August 5, 2008 by madmann101

[livincinco]

Yay!!! Oct. is right around the corner.

HOB Grand Opening

There's a virtual tour on their website - www.hob.com. Looks great inside.

[citizen4rmptown]

There's a virtual tour on their website - www.hob.com. Looks great inside.

comfy seating

[memebag]

I love Houston and it's my favorite city in Texas! I can live without rail,but I just think rail would be a lot more helpful. I'm also moving there to attend college and get away from Waco and bad memories here. I'd choose Dallas, but Houston just seems like more of a better choice for me and also have tons of family there.

But why do you love Houston? Is it just because you have family here? If so, why is your family here?

[wernicke]

But why do you love Houston? Is it just because you have family here? If so, why is your family here?

Does memebag actually care or is he/she just trolling?

[memebag]

Does memebag actually care or is he/she just trolling?

Memebag is trying to demonstrate the advantages of Houston's current transportation solutions. I care about that, but others may view it as a troll.

[C2H]

Quick question. What ever happened with the Video Screen proposal? Last I heard, it was pre-approved but it would only allow the developers to put the screens up by the opening date. I've been downtown a few times recently and see no indication of any screens or anything going up. Isn't the grand opening only 2 months away?

Surely they won't be able to get them installed within a month?

Any Info is appreciated.

[RedScare]

Quick question. What ever happened with the Video Screen proposal? Last I heard, it was pre-approved but it would only allow the developers to put the screens up by the opening date. I've been downtown a few times recently and see no indication of any screens or anything going up. Isn't the grand opening only 2 months away?

Surely they won't be able to get them installed within a month?

Any Info is appreciated.

The part you would see can be installed in a day or two.

[totheskies]

The part you would see can be installed in a day or two.

That's what I was thinking... they're basically gonna be HD jumbo-trons, right? So assuming they're doing the utility work for them, it won't take very long. B/c of the shock factor for downtown patrons, I'm sure they're gonna wait till the last minute for those.

It'll be really nice to have SOMETHING in downtown that screams for attention though. I can't wait!

[ricco67]

Driving by the complex is interesting, I saw HOB lit up last night, it was pretty neat.

the closing of the streets sucked, though.

[Houston19514]

Driving by the complex is interesting, I saw HOB lit up last night, it was pretty neat.

the closing of the streets sucked, though.

Closing of what streets?

[ricco67]

Closing of what streets?

Fannin, San Jacinto, and occasionally Polk during the overhead construction.

Tell you what, I hope they do something serious with the garage,though.

[PuroAztlan]

I just walked by HOB, there's an 18 wheeler parked there and they're unloading a bunch of "funky" pictures to put on the walls.

[Pumapayam]

Latest news release from August 18th, 2008

Interestingly, no actual opening date is set, just a month still.

Also, nothing new in the release about tenants, unless someone else sees it.

[lockmat]

Latest news release from August 18th, 2008

Interestingly, no actual opening date is set, just a month still.

Also, nothing new in the release about tenants, unless someone else sees it.

Just looking at the list of retail tenants makes me realize just how big this thing is. While it's not tall, that's a stinkin lot of retail/restaurants on three city blocks.

[MidtownCoog]

Closing of what streets?

While not closed, Dallas St. from Allen Center to Fannin is total mess.

The entire right lane is closed.

[Subdude]

I just walked by HOB, there's an 18 wheeler parked there and they're unloading a bunch of "funky" pictures to put on the walls.

What are these "funky" pictures?

[citizen4rmptown]

Just looking at the list of retail tenants makes me realize just how big this thing is. While it's not tall, that's a stinkin lot of retail/restaurants on three city blocks.

i thought it was four blocks?

[BigSky]

It is 4 including the parking garage.

BTW, I've spoke to 2 of the venues and they are without a doubt opening in October. HOB will be up and running in October and Lucky Strike will be finished by November.

THis thing is going to revolutionize downtown houston. I have coworkers all buzzing about shopping in downtown houston and anyone that has eaten at the park shops over the last 20 years has to be excited to get an entire gang of new restaurants into the downtown area.

[roadrunner]

It is 4 including the parking garage.

BTW, I've spoke to 2 of the venues and they are without a doubt opening in October. HOB will be up and running in October and Lucky Strike will be finished by November.

THis thing is going to revolutionize downtown houston. I have coworkers all buzzing about shopping in downtown houston and anyone that has eaten at the park shops over the last 20 years has to be excited to get an entire gang of new restaurants into the downtown area.

I agree. I've worked on the east side of downtown for the last year, and I'm getting outrageously sick of the same restaurants over there. Especially since the only affordable ones worth anything are the Grove, Irma's, and Massa's.

Does anyone know where the main tenants are going to be located? Obviously, HOB is on the east side, and I saw a sign for Guadalajara under the overpass on San Jac. What about Lucky Strike, Forever 21, Polk St. Pub, and the bookstore?

Edited August 23, 2008 by roadrunner

[PuroAztlan]

<br />What are these "funky" pictures?

You know, your typical HOB decor.

[citizen4rmptown]

You know, your typical HOB decor.

would it be too much to ask if you can provide some pictures? please and thank you.

[CasaNova]

Do any of you guys have any idea what kind and where they are going to place the jumbotron/plasma screens? I know they will probably wait closer to opening day, but I have no clue where they could possible put the screens, how many, and what kind. I kind am eager to see the finishing touches, and I hope that they meet my expectations, since many have been deflated already by the exterior design they have chosen thus far. Maybe the interior will compensate for it.

[tierwestah]

Just drove by HP on Friday, it looks pretty bland from the outside exterior. I hope they decorate the walls because that cladding is YUCK.

I'm thinking the jumbotrons are going on the inside panels on the skybridge off Fannin.

[PuroAztlan]

McCormick & Schmick's will be on the east corner on San Jacinto and Dallas, ground floor.

[tierwestah]

I'm a little bummed that all the stores aren't opening at the same time. So what, only the HOB is opening in October and we have to wait a while before all the other tennants come? Anyone have the scoop?

[lockmat]

next month, eh?