GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[joshuajbp]

Am I the only one who finds the renderings above of HOB kinda underwhelming? I'm curious as to the cladding material shown as gray rectangles. It is supposed to be stone, or *gasp* vinyl siding from Sears (or some other type of similar material). They are obviously going for the industrial loft style with the exposed girders and what I suppose is cement.

*gasps* I guess u havn't seen the one in Chicago? It's complete metal siding...

[what]

Yawn.

Calm down people. This is a multi million dollar project in the heart of downtown on THREE full city blocks. It involves private financing which has been obtained according to various press releases as well as public financing from the city and county. Projects as large as this one are more often than not delayed from the start.

MAJOR national and local brands have been announced as signing on to the project and national architectural firms are lined up (H.O.K.).

Here are the KNOWN names heading into the Pavilions;

A 43,000 square foot House of Blues with a 1,500 seat music performance hall

A 37,000 square foot medical clinic in the office portion

A 24,800 square foot Lucky Strike that will have 16 bowling lanes, a billiard hall, a 90 seat restaurant, and a vintage bar

Lawry's Prime Rib is opening just their 5th U.S. location

McCormick and Schmick's is opening their second Houston location

Tuscany (a coffee house) is opening its 3rd Houston location

Yao's Restaurant and Bar will open its 2nd Houston location

Antica Osteria, a Houston Italian restaurant will open a 2nd location

Red Cat Jazz Cafe has signed on

Relax. This is an entirely different animal than the Shamrock and a much more complicated transaction. It will happen. Just have some faith!

Here is a more recent lease for all : Forever 21.

[Houston19514]

Here is a more recent lease for all : Forever 21.

Source? It would be good to see some soft-goods retail

[OldGeo]

I am a downtown resident and this is my 1st post, so be gentle. I have read and watched this thread for several months and have gone through the highs and lows with all of you, is it going to happen? when is it going to happen? I for one feel that this is a critical development in creating the critical mass of retail and residence needed to make the downtown area a truly livable community.

So enough bable - here is some news: I attended the Downtown Town Hall Meeting at the Rice Post Lofts this evening, during the presentations and the Q&A, the HP project was mentioned by Mayor White and Councilwoman Alverado several times. It was mentioned in the context of the type of project that is redefining the downtown landscape. They mentioned the Finger project as well - also as a transformational project. While they did not give a certain starting date, they made it clear that this is a viable project that is moving forward.

Following the meeting, I walked down by the HP site and there is something new - there are surveyor markings around the perimeter of all three parking lots and all utilities are marked with new flourescent orange paint - these are new in the last day or two. Also at the pay station of one of the parking lots there was a sign notifying customers that the lot will be closing in February and directing them to nearby parking facilities.

Based on what I have heard and seen tonight, I am now a believer that this project will not only happen, but will commence in the very near future.

[Trae]

You see, just have faith. Welcome to the forum OldGeo and thanks for the good information.

Edited February 8, 2007 by Trae

[Houston19514]

I am a downtown resident and this is my 1st post, so be gentle. I have read and watched this thread for several months and have gone through the highs and lows with all of you, is it going to happen? when is it going to happen? I for one feel that this is a critical development in creating the critical mass of retail and residence needed to make the downtown area a truly livable community.

So enough bable - here is some news: I attended the Downtown Town Hall Meeting at the Rice Post Lofts this evening, during the presentations and the Q&A, the HP project was mentioned by Mayor White and Councilwoman Alverado several times. It was mentioned in the context of the type of project that is redefining the downtown landscape. They mentioned the Finger project as well - also as a transformational project. While they did not give a certain starting date, they made it clear that this is a viable project that is moving forward.

Following the meeting, I walked down by the HP site and there is something new - there are surveyor markings around the perimeter of all three parking lots and all utilities are marked with new flourescent orange paint - these are new in the last day or two. Also at the pay station of one of the parking lots there was a sign notifying customers that the lot will be closing in February and directing them to nearby parking facilities.

Based on what I have heard and seen tonight, I am now a believer that this project will not only happen, but will commence in the very near future.

Thanks for the update, and welcome! Be careful. Some people around here don't much like to hear good things about Houston. ;-)

Edited February 8, 2007 by Houston19514

[ricco67]

I am a downtown resident and this is my 1st post, so be gentle. I have read and watched this thread for several months and have gone through the highs and lows with all of you, is it going to happen? when is it going to happen? I for one feel that this is a critical development in creating the critical mass of retail and residence needed to make the downtown area a truly livable community.

So enough bable - here is some news: I attended the Downtown Town Hall Meeting at the Rice Post Lofts this evening, during the presentations and the Q&A, the HP project was mentioned by Mayor White and Councilwoman Alverado several times. It was mentioned in the context of the type of project that is redefining the downtown landscape. They mentioned the Finger project as well - also as a transformational project. While they did not give a certain starting date, they made it clear that this is a viable project that is moving forward.

Following the meeting, I walked down by the HP site and there is something new - there are surveyor markings around the perimeter of all three parking lots and all utilities are marked with new flourescent orange paint - these are new in the last day or two. Also at the pay station of one of the parking lots there was a sign notifying customers that the lot will be closing in February and directing them to nearby parking facilities.

Based on what I have heard and seen tonight, I am now a believer that this project will not only happen, but will commence in the very near future.

Welcome to the site and an excellent first post!

I was driving by there earlier today and I had noticed a bunch of workers some were doing what I THOUGHT was surveying, but what I thought was VERY interesting is that they were fixing the street along the Dallas side.

[Subdude]

Great info, thanks and welcome to the board!

[The Great Hizzy!]

Hands on, eyewitness accounts are always appreciated. Thanks a lot, Old Geo.

[jdbaker]

Hands on, eyewitness accounts are always appreciated. Thanks a lot, Old Geo.

I too attended the Townhall Meeting. Mayor White made a few additional statements that some of you may find interesting. First, he stated that residents can expect a bona fide grocery store in downtown sometime within the next two years. Second, he said there are several other "concrete deals" (as in nearly certain) in the works for downtown aside from Houston Pavilions and the Fingers project. All of this is obviously rumor and innuendo from the mouth of a politician, so take it for what it's worth, but interesting nonetheless

[stjnky]

Meeting recap via the Chronicle

[The Great Hizzy!]

Her other issues aside, it's nice to read councilwoman Alvarado's specific comments about retailers like Barnes & Noble. At least it echoes the sentiments we've heard from people who live downtown and Midtown.

[talltexan83]

I just took a walk around the site during lunch, and while the parking lots are still full, all of the pay kiosks have notices indicating that they will be "closing in February 2007" and offer parking alternatives in the area.

Central Parking would have nothing to gain by displaying these notices unless construction is around the corner.

[H-Town Man]

I too attended the Townhall Meeting. Mayor White made a few additional statements that some of you may find interesting. First, he stated that residents can expect a bona fide grocery store in downtown sometime within the next two years. Second, he said there are several other "concrete deals" (as in nearly certain) in the works for downtown aside from Houston Pavilions and the Fingers project. All of this is obviously rumor and innuendo from the mouth of a politician, so take it for what it's worth, but interesting nonetheless

Maybe Bill can get that post office moved.

[C2H]

Not so sure about what you mean by "Denver Pavilions has done great." There have been many casualties on the restaurant side - including Wolfgang Puck's restaurant. Other smaller retailers - esp. on the upper levels - are long, long gone. There are many vacancies. Have you been there?? The only portion of the development that does ok is the area that immediately faces 16th Street on ground level. Overall, retail sales have been so-so there.... many in Denver would say that it is not their first choice for a retail destination... even amongst retail centers downtown.

Denver didn't need to build residential over the Pavilions project. With LoDo - which is down 16th Street from the Pavilions - flourishing, and now with the Platte River surging with new residential construction, downtown Denver is at least a decade ahead of downtown Houston on the residential side... and that is a best case scenario for downtown Houston. And that is my point... if there was one case for a new residential development in downtown Houston, it would be near amenities (retail, light rail, office jobs) as the Pavilions promises. If the developers can't make it work here (and with incentives, no less!), I am skeptical on creating any real residential density downtown. As Kinkaid stated - it is disappointing. We don't need another Bayou Place (which, I may add, is also heavily subsidized!!)...

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but ever since this the quoted statement was made, i've wondered if HP will really make a difference downtown Houston.

On the other hand, anything like this can only be a positive step for downtown because downtown Houston currently needs some serious help.

[Houston19514]

Sorry to rain on everyone's parade but ever since this the quoted statement was made, i've wondered if HP will really make a difference downtown Houston.

On the other hand, anything like this can only be a positive step for downtown because downtown Houston currently needs some serious help.

What about that statement has you down in the dumps? ;-)

If it's the stated failure rate of retail at Denver Pavilions, well, I'm not sure what FirstnGoal's source or credentials are for that statement... but the Denver Pavilions shows very few vacant spaces on any level. Casualties in the restaurant field, gosh, what a surprise. ;-) In any event, Wolfgang Puck's just closed last January, after Seven years in Denver Pavilions, and it's closure had more to do with Wolfgang Puck's divorce than with Denver Pavilions.

If your concern is the statement "if the developer can't make residential work at the Pavilions, it probably can't work elsewhere downtown, ignores the rest of the information we've gotten about the residential element, to-wit: the problem was the underground parking, which was making it too expensive to stay within the market prices for apartments. Very simple. Apparently, others (including especially Marv Finger) are still seeing a market.

Also, Firstngoal stated that Denver is 10 years ahead of Houston in residential development; therefore Denver Pavilions didn't need a residential portion, but Houston's does. But Denver Pavilions opened 9 years ago, so that puts Houston in relatively the same place that Denver was when Denver Pavilions opened. (In fact, we'll be in a better place than Denver was, since Houston Pavilions won't open until nearly 11 years after Denver Pavilions did; so if we're only 10 years behind in residential development... well, you can do the math. ;-)

[C2H]

Also, Firstngoal stated that Denver is 10 years ahead of Houston in residential development; therefore Denver Pavilions didn't need a residential portion, but Houston's does. But Denver Pavilions opened 9 years ago, so that puts Houston in relatively the same place that Denver was when Denver Pavilions opened. (In fact, we'll be in a better place than Denver was, since Houston Pavilions won't open until nearly 11 years after Denver Pavilions did; so if we're only 10 years behind in residential development... well, you can do the math. ;-)

Don't get me wrong, i'm very excited and hopeful of Houston Pavilions. I think it will be slightly different from Denver's version because for one: it will be larger. The only thing that i wish Houston has that Denver's has is the movie theatre.

I don't think Firstngoal was basing his statement over Denver's residential develpment off Denver Pavilions alone. I guess part of what got me in "the dumps" is the statements saying it will be like another Bayou Place. We all know that place isn't the most happenin' in downtown and i don't want HP to suffer the same fate. I wanna see more people!

[713 To 214]

Normally, the best way to monitor the progress of projects like this is to follow the City Council Agenda/Minutes and its relevant committees. I never really had a doubt that this project will be realized. I just wondered in what form. Unfortunately, because Pavillions no longer includes a residential component, it will not have as great an impact on Downtown Houston as originally envisioned.

As for the DT grocery store that's being promoted as becoming reality in two years, I say. . .who will shop there enough to keep it afloat? DT Houston will not have enough residents to support such a venture, even with the Fingers Tower, unless a major wave of residential units/residents (at least another 4-6K) occupy DT within that same time span!

[musicman]

Normally, the best way to monitor the progress of projects like this is to follow the City Council Agenda/Minutes and its relevant committees. I never really had a doubt that this project will be realized. I just wondered in what form. Unfortunately, because Pavillions no longer includes a residential component, it will not have as great an impact on Downtown Houston as originally envisioned.

As for the DT grocery store that's being promoted as becoming reality in two years, I say. . .who will shop there enough to keep it afloat? DT Houston will not have enough residents to support such a venture, even with the Fingers Tower, unless a major wave of residential units/residents (at least another 4-6K) occupy DT within that same time span!

the residential component wasn't that large. the greatest impact will be the commercial portion, not the residential portion.

[tierwestah]

As for the DT grocery store that's being promoted as becoming reality in two years, I say. . .who will shop there enough to keep it afloat? DT Houston will not have enough residents to support such a venture

I don't know, i guess the same type of people that shop at UrbanMarket in downtown Dallas. There was an article about a yr ago that the city of Dallas was trying to front $ to that store to keep it from being closed down. Downtown Dallas doesn't exactly have the resident population either, but they're making it work.

[The Great Hizzy!]

713 to 214 does make a point in Houston's case, however, because there's a Randall's located less than two miles away in Midtown that could serve the needs of residents on the southern side of DT. This would certainly pose an additional impediment toward's the initial success of a DT market.

OTOH, if the new grocery DT did its research and was slick, they'd be able to also corner the larger DT employee population. Being able to sell goods during the day to close to 200,000 people can have enough of an overall impact to help it make it through those sluggish sales during the off-peak hours.

[musicman]

OTOH, if the new grocery DT did its research and was slick, they'd be able to also corner the larger DT employee population. Being able to sell goods during the day to close to 200,000 people can have enough of an overall impact to help it make it through those sluggish sales during the off-peak hours.

A store with few employees would be more likely to succeed vs something with employees in multiple departments. just way less overhead.

[houstonfella]

713 to 214 does make a point in Houston's case, however, because there's a Randall's located less than two miles away in Midtown that could serve the needs of residents on the southern side of DT. This would certainly pose an additional impediment toward's the initial success of a DT market.

OTOH, if the new grocery DT did its research and was slick, they'd be able to also corner the larger DT employee population. Being able to sell goods during the day to close to 200,000 people can have enough of an overall impact to help it make it through those sluggish sales during the off-peak hours.

You hit the nail on the head with this post. During 5 days of the work week, people buy, buy and buy. Sales might be slower on the weekend downtown, but during the week, I think the workforce would support a decent sized downtown market.

[houstonsemipro]

The Houston Pavilions is scheduled to break ground by the third week of this month, according to its developers.

"The project will be completed in October of 2008 as originally planned," William Denton and Geoffrey Jones said in an e-mail.

Houston Pavilions won't have a residential component as once envisioned, but another nearby property — the long-vacant Texaco Building — is said to be the next residential conversion project with more than 400 units.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/4542550.html

Edited February 11, 2007 by houstonsemipro

[Houstonian in Iraq]

^^^^^

Is that the sound of Semi jumping on board J/K

Thanks for the update/link.

The Houston Pavilions is scheduled to break ground by the third week of this month, according to its developers

That would make ground breaking sometime next week, wait and see

[RedScare]

A couple of highly anticipated downtown real estate projects are expected to get started this month, lifting a cloud of uncertainty that often hangs over much-touted developments

[ricco67]

Boy, if that isn't a finger in the eye to HAIF naysayers, I don't know what is.

Or at least, a finger in their general direction.

[HtownWxBoy]

I think Houston Pavilions is going to be the big thing downtown Houston needs for it to begin developing more quickly into more than just a really big office park. The downtown park is already under construction, houston pavilions and the fingers tower (which will have retail space including a small grocery store) are about to start construction, hopefully American Apparel will still open its downtown store on Main right next to the Pavilons project in the near future... seems like things are really starting to fall into place. The American Apparel on Westheimer in Montrose seems to be doing well and there is already another retail store opening up next door to it (I forget which one.. but the signs were in the windows the other day when I stopped by American Apparel). Hopefully more retail stores will begin looking at downtown Houston to open up stores. To get people to move downtown, they are going to want affordable housing along with stores, places to eat, entertainment complexes, etc. to go to. Of course, stores won't open w/o the people. I think we will now begin seeing more of a snowball effect... everything mentioned above gets developed, more people move downtown, more retail stores including grocery stores open to meet the needs of those people, even more people move downtown to live in a more urban environment.... etc etc.

[The Great Hizzy!]

How fitting that the name of the development company it this case is called Finger.

[ricco67]

I was wondering how much drama was involved when the Houston center and park shops were first opened up. Of course, there was no internet back then for people to delicate flower about.