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I agree... there's just more room for screens on Dallas... they will be close enough to Main to still look nice.

Heck I agree. Some of the old renderings (if you look closely) show these screens on the skywalks on both San Jancinto and Fannin, as cars are approaching the underpass. The rendering is what got me excited, now this is starting to look like a watered-down project. They should also put the darn screens on Mains Street as well. This will help entice more retail, such as the Sakowtizs project. We can't be conservative, it hasn't worked. If we want to inject new life into our downtown, we need to go modern. Besides downtowns are suppose to be energized, bustling, and thriving. Let all the old foggies compaining about the noise and light to buy a cheap pair of earplugs, and a sleeping mask for crying out loud!.

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I'm taking one of my girlfriends there after the Ottmar Liebert concert on the 8th. I'm sure she'll love it.

Uh... ? Anyway. The bartender at the HOB says that they are still working out their kinks. We'll see.

MisterX strongly disagrees with your post! we should all stop our complaining b/c hey, at least the parking lots are gone! what an ungrateful lot around here.... but that;s exactly what should ha

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I would suggest people are the main element that make up a great neighborhood. We don't need giant tvs and stuff. Just people. They are more dynamic than any created instrument ever could be.

But I guess giant tvs couldn't hurt :) We need the people first though, which the tvs could or could not help bring.

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So having a "wanna-be Times Square" will energize downtown? Sorry but glitz and glamour will last as about as long as most of the "clubs" did in downtown. You need something more than flashy TV screens.

I think the Pavilions is a start in the right direction if they keep it up. The Park shops failed (still funny that Crescent keeps raising the rent). It went from stores like The Gap and Oshmans to insurance companies and The Dress Barn. If it weren't for the performing art centers in downtown, Bayou Place would have failed. HP has a good start, but in my opinion they need more "popular" retail.

Why is everyone so "gung ho" for Houston to be a tourist destination city? We are fine the way we are (other than lack of zoning).

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I would suggest people are the main element that make up a great neighborhood. We don't need giant tvs and stuff. Just people. They are more dynamic than any created instrument ever could be.

But I guess giant tvs couldn't hurt :) We need the people first though, which the tvs could or could not help bring.

Well, I would still like the Screens on various parts of the project. They could be used for special evening events, or when a team makes the playoffs. Just close off one or two blocks of fannin and watch the sold out games.

FYI: The cranes are all gone.

EDIT: No cranes.

Edited by ricco67
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So having a "wanna-be Times Square" will energize downtown? Sorry but glitz and glamour will last as about as long as most of the "clubs" did in downtown. You need something more than flashy TV screens.

I think the Pavilions is a start in the right direction if they keep it up. The Park shops failed (still funny that Crescent keeps raising the rent). It went from stores like The Gap and Oshmans to insurance companies and The Dress Barn. If it weren't for the performing art centers in downtown, Bayou Place would have failed. HP has a good start, but in my opinion they need more "popular" retail.

Why is everyone so "gung ho" for Houston to be a tourist destination city? We are fine the way we are (other than lack of zoning).

Not to take it off topic too far, but there's nothing wrong with bringing tourists to Houston, is there? If anything, it supplements the economy a little bit. It doesn't hurt.

But I'd agree that we just need to create places for Houstonians, and in turn, people might become attracted to the uniqueness and want to visit as a tourist. But just b/c times square has them doesn't mean that we're not being unique. Almost everything has been done before. It's just that each place puts it's own spin on things, hopefully.

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I would suggest people are the main element that make up a great neighborhood. We don't need giant tvs and stuff. Just people. They are more dynamic than any created instrument ever could be.

But I guess giant tvs couldn't hurt :) We need the people first though, which the tvs could or could not help bring.

I see TV's only helping entice more people to come to. Especially if they show movies and stuff on the TV's.

So having a "wanna-be Times Square" will energize downtown? Sorry but glitz and glamour will last as about as long as most of the "clubs" did in downtown. You need something more than flashy TV screens.

I think the Pavilions is a start in the right direction if they keep it up. The Park shops failed (still funny that Crescent keeps raising the rent). It went from stores like The Gap and Oshmans to insurance companies and The Dress Barn. If it weren't for the performing art centers in downtown, Bayou Place would have failed. HP has a good start, but in my opinion they need more "popular" retail.

Why is everyone so "gung ho" for Houston to be a tourist destination city? We are fine the way we are (other than lack of zoning).

What's wrong with bringing more tourists to Houston? It only helps the economy. Tourism brings in more hotel night stays, more transit users, more things bought at the stores, etc. Don't see what is wrong with wanting more of that.

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I see TV's only helping entice more people to come to. Especially if they show movies and stuff on the TV's.

my question is where are these people going to sit to watch these movies and 'stuff?' It doesn't seem as if a space was created in the plans for this.

I guess it would add a kind of cool dimension. I know citywalk in LA has a giant one, but i didn't think it was all that cool. I may have watched it for a minute and continued on.

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And my question is, who would want to watch Video Screens facing Dallas (between buildings). I think facing Main St or facing Josephines is a better option. They should be something that people see as they enter the entertainment venue. I hope it happens!

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Not to take it off topic too far, but there's nothing wrong with bringing tourists to Houston, is there? If anything, it supplements the economy a little bit. It doesn't hurt.

But I'd agree that we just need to create places for Houstonians, and in turn, people might become attracted to the uniqueness and want to visit as a tourist. But just b/c times square has them doesn't mean that we're not being unique. Almost everything has been done before. It's just that each place puts it's own spin on things, hopefully.

I agree with this. Whenever the subject of tourism and Houston is discussed, there are always those who interpret increased tourism as wanting to turn Houston into Orlando or San Antonio and that is not the objective. Houston is diverisifying it's economy....why can't tourism be one of the spokes in the diversifying wheel? There are other cities, whose "backbone" is not tourism, but they tend to do a much better job in the tourism department and the result is more tourist visit for leisure and leave lots of cash. For example, I saw a article (this was a few years ago and I can no longer recall the source) that showed Dallas, and Atlanta both had a higher percentage of visitors for leisure than Houston in comparison, and neither of those places depend on tourism like say a New Orleans or San Antonio. Houston had SOME, but there was a obvious difference between the three (we seemed to do much better with visitors on business ^_^ ).

What we offer is of quality, with maybe the exception of the Johnson Space Center, but it is not enough. IMO Houston has not "arrived" in terms of attractions for a city this size. I think many times some Houstonians are so proud of the quality of the Menil, MFAH, The Holocaust Museum, etc., that we believe we are the type of city that can soley depend on those. New York and Paris are the types of cities that can soley depend on it's museums for tourists, though those cities offer much more. But Houston is not one of those types of cities. Variety is the spice of life and what we offer in variety (the zoo, parks, the mall, and restuarants) can be found just about anywhere. Kemah is nice but anyone who has traveled knows there are other places that do the whole "Seaside Village" thing a lot better than Kemah. Anyone who has been to the Kennedy Space Center, especially within the past 2-3 years, knows there is a world of difference between there and our Johnson Space Center. And the Aquarium Downtown is very nice, but it isn't even a aquarium, it's a restuarant.

Of course something is better than nothing, but as I stated, Houston has a way to go in terms of attractions, and what we do offer isn't marketed probaby like it should. The tourism spoke of our diversifying economy could use some help and it could be done without turning into the next Orlando.

By the way, bring on the monitors at the Pavillions. Houston lacks vibrancy and the answer to that isn't necessarily monitors, but they certainly wouldn't hurt.

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I agree with some parts of your post. CityPass would not have chosen Houston as their first city in Texas if they didn't think we had enough attractions (now I guess).

When you think tourism in Houston, you have to use the whole metro area (like you would for Dallas and Atlanta). You have the museums, zoo, aquarium, etc., in the Inner Loop. Then you have the Galleria area for shopping (I would say this is a tourist attraction). Southeast of the city, you have the JSC. Thought not upto par with the Kennedy Space Center, I still think it does a good job, and just needs a few more motion rides. You have Kemah in that area, too. Further south is Galveston, with the beach, Moody Gardens, and Schlitterbahn.

In a few years (four or so), you will have EarthQuest, which will be the largest theme park in Texas.

Add those in, and Houston is really onpar with DFW (I would say above it), and is just below Atlanta (for now). Better marketing would help Houston (and not the "My Houston" crap).

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Southeast of the city, you have the JSC. Thought not upto par with the Kennedy Space Center, I still think it does a good job, and just needs a few more motion rides.
yeah let's make things worse. :wacko:

whenever places advertise as "tourist" attractions, things tend to go downhill

Edited by musicman
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I agree that making the city more appealing to tourists is a good idea. That doesn't necessarily mean making Houston a "tourist city", it just means making the city more appealing to outsiders. All of you lifers would be surprised at the number of international visitors I have met (mostly doctors, post docs, interns, residents, grad students, and people who moved here as new graduates for employment) who love where they work (Rice / TMC mostly) but absolutely hate Houston as a whole. It's sad that so many people turn their back on Houston and go elsewhere after they finish their work here because they find other cities so much more appealing. I think that ties in with the tourist concept somewhat.

I know somebody is going to say "we don't need those people always", but I disagree. The more smart educated successful people the city can attract, the better. If the city's only advantage is that housing is cheap, that's often not enough. That might attract people who are looking to save money, but that's about it.

If adding some flashy screens helps make Downtown more interesting to outsiders, I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I definitely think some real shopping options downtown is going to make a big impact, and the more interesting they can make it look to outsiders, the better.

kemah....adding "rides" to the jsc tour, etc. sounds like someone should go to a mall carnival.

What was the JSC like before they added the "rides". Did it really used to be better back in the day? Or was it just the same minus the rides?

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What was the JSC like before they added the "rides". Did it really used to be better back in the day? Or was it just the same minus the rides?

JSC was more interesting when we spent more money on space exploration. There wasn't a lot for tourists to do (a movie theater, some space suits, the Saturn V, and some tours), but the work going on there made it more exciting. Space Center Houston is pretty lame compared to an actual Apollo mission.

On luring smart people to stay:

I don't think video screens will attract more smart people. Magpies, maybe, but smart people will probably see through the sizzle. And I don't think the "lifers" who already like Houston should have to pay to lure people who really want to live somewhere else.

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I'm not so sure. Smart people seem to like sizzle. The so called "smart people" I mentioned all seem to like cities like Toronto, San Francisco, Chicago, and New York, LA, Austin - places like that when given the choice. For whatever reason the majority of the outsiders that I meet are turned off by Houston and ready to pack up and leave after 3 or 4 years. I don't think that's a good sign for Houston.

Rather than just saying "let them go live somewhere else", can't you think of any way to improve Houston's image? Or is that impossible?

I'm not sure video screens is the answer, but my point was that making the city more appealing to outsiders is a good thing however you do it. That's why I see the tourism thing working for more than just tourists. Beautifying the city makes it more appealing for tourists but also more appealing for other people as well. Rather than just attracting people who are looking to live cheaply or work for an oil company, it would be nice to attract other types of people to Houston as well...

Edited by Jax
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JSC was more interesting when we spent more money on space exploration. There wasn't a lot for tourists to do (a movie theater, some space suits, the Saturn V, and some tours), but the work going on there made it more exciting. Space Center Houston is pretty lame compared to an actual Apollo mission.

So it seems the rides didn't ruin the space center, the lack of excitement in the current space program did...

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So it seems the rides didn't ruin the space center, the lack of excitement in the current space program did...

Space Center Houston (the tourist trap they opened outside JSC) didn't have "rides" the last time I took my daughter there. Funding cuts made JSC and Clear Lake less exciting. Space Center Houston made it cheesier.

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What was the JSC like before they added the "rides". Did it really used to be better back in the day? Or was it just the same minus the rides?

definitely less flashy. you have to remember that it was free before so none of the rides. when space center houston was proposed it sounded great but the implementation sucked.

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definitely less flashy. you have to remember that it was free before so none of the rides. when space center houston was proposed it sounded great but the implementation sucked.

So which ride do you operate at JSC, music? :P

For whatever reason the majority of the outsiders that I meet are turned off by Houston and ready to pack up and leave after 3 or 4 years. I don't think that's a good sign for Houston.

You might ought to get out and meet some more people. Houston's population has increased 14% since the 2000 Census.

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Houston: doomed to fail... since 1836.

Unless the so-called smart people can be made to feel really cool after college.

Makes me giddy to think about the prospects! Show me more. Maybe when we get it together we can be like New Orleans and Miami. Oh, boy!!

People who actually--gasp!--like Houston don't count. It's more important to check in with a group of so-called smart people, who apparently need sizzle, like TV screens along streets, a spot on Real World and a nice writeup in the latest urban snob publication reminding them how coooooool they are.

If not, the city will fail. Fail. FAIIIIIIIL!!

fail.jpg

I'd like to thank the spirit of this thread for giving me a new slogan: Houston Is Fail!

Edited by The Great Hizzy!
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The best sentence of the entire thread.

And that is what it seems like DFW is doing. They attract a lot more people, looking for a different range of jobs (oil, energy, tech, fashion, etc.). Houston needs to find a way to do that. Maybe build up a tech corridor along a freeway somewhere. Entice tech companies to locate offices there. Do something like that. I don't really know.

I guess that is what you get when you have two major cities forming a metro area, instead of just one.

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From some of the comments on this thread, one would think that ugliness is Houston's greatest asset, and that it should be jealously guarded.

Believe me, we have enough ugly reserves to last another thousand years. It is not a scarce commodity. What's wrong with having a block or two downtown that looks as if it belongs in a civilized country in the 21st century?

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People who actually--gasp!--like Houston don't count. It's more important to check in with a group of so-called smart people, who apparently need sizzle, like TV screens along streets, a spot on Real World and a nice writeup in the latest urban snob publication reminding them how coooooool they are.

you gotta put chuy's or pf chang's in there somewhere. LOL

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Unless the so-called smart people can be made to feel really cool after college.

Sorry if my post offended people on here or makes me seem shallow. This isn't about feeling really cool after college, its about the city's image and whether people who visit like the city or not. I know doctors in the medical center doing a residency here but wanting to raise their family somewhere else. That's more than just feeling cool after college. I know a professor who has lived in Houston for 30 years and tells her students stories of how her her kids left Houston as soon as they were on their own because there were nicer places to live and work. That doesn't give the city a very good image.

People who actually--gasp!--like Houston don't count

I know that lots of people like it here. I'm one of them. I'm not saying they don't count. I'm just not talking about them though. I'm talking about visitors. I'm talking about why a better tourism image would help the city.

My main point was this: It seems like it is common for visitors to dislike Houston and that's why I agree that it would be a good thing if Houston had more of a tourist appeal. A bit of flash downtown couldn't hurt anything.

Makes me giddy to think about the prospects! Show me more. Maybe when we get it together we can be like New Orleans and Miami. Oh, boy!!

I'm not saying we should be like New Orleans. I'm trying to point out that in my experience it's more common to meet visitors from outside Texas who dislike the city than who like the city, and I think that is a problem. And I think it can be fixed. I was hoping to hear some ideas rather than just defensiveness. But to be honest, defensiveness was what I expected.

Edited by Jax
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Sorry if my post offended people on here or makes me seem shallow. This isn't about feeling really cool after college, its about the city's image and whether people who visit like the city or not.

I think I understand what you're looking for. It isn't shallow, I just don't think it's feasible. Houston is hot in summer and flat all year round. The amount of money it would take to make it as attractive as some the other cities you listed is astronomical, and there's no amount of money that can make Houston as attractive as San Francisco. People with the desire and earning power to live in San Francisco are never going to stay in Houston. Let it go. Houston has other charms and will attract other people, people like us "lifers".

I know doctors in the medical center doing a residency here but wanting to raise their family somewhere else. That's more than just feeling cool after college. I know a professor who has lived in Houston for 30 years and tells her students stories of how her her kids left Houston as soon as they were on their own because there were nicer places to live and work. That doesn't give the city a very good image.

Video screens can't change that. Doctors, as a rule, will not be impressed by them. Video screens will attract primitive peoples who haven't seen flashing, moving lights before. Expect an influx of people from deep in the Amazon rainforest.

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I think I understand what you're looking for. It isn't shallow, I just don't think it's feasible. Houston is hot in summer and flat all year round. The amount of money it would take to make it as attractive as some the other cities you listed is astronomical, and there's no amount of money that can make Houston as attractive as San Francisco. People with the desire and earning power to live in San Francisco are never going to stay in Houston. Let it go. Houston has other charms and will attract other people, people like us "lifers".

Singapore is hot and humid all year 'round... and so is Hong Kong. I am in no way saying Houston could become like one of those cities, just saying that having heat and humidity a few months out of the year shouldn't be an excuse for not working on improving our city's image.

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Singapore is hot and humid all year 'round... and so is Hong Kong. I am in no way saying Houston could become like one of those cities, just saying that having heat and humidity a few months out of the year shouldn't be an excuse for not working on improving our city's image.

So, if you're not saying Houston could become like Singapore or Hong Kong, what are you saying? By adding video screens to the outside of a shopping mall, Houston will become more ... what?

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Video screens can't change that. Doctors, as a rule, will not be impressed by them. Video screens will attract primitive peoples who haven't seen flashing, moving lights before. Expect an influx of people from deep in the Amazon rainforest.

I think if you look back you'll see that I said video screens were not the solution. But yes, it would be cool to get the indigenous Amazoneans to visit Houston.

Toronto is as flat as Houston and uncomfortably cold more months than Houston is uncomfortably hot, yet it has appeal. Miami hotter and just as flat and it has appeal (okay so Miami has the ocean). Montreal is even colder than Toronto for even longer (6+ months of uncomfortable cold) and has a few hills (which don't impress me) yet it is considered desirable. I don't know about Chicago but I always considered it flat and cold. Dubai is in the middle of a desert, hotter than Houston and sandy, and it has appeal.

My point is, it isn't about the climate or the flatness as much as it is about how a city is designed and planned. Did I say planned? Now I am in trouble...

Edited by Jax
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So, if you're not saying Houston could become like Singapore or Hong Kong, what are you saying? By adding video screens to the outside of a shopping mall, Houston will become more ... what?

I wasn't saying anything about the screens... was just saying Houston shouldn't let the fact that it's hot and humid a couple months out of the year from keeping it from working on becoming a more attractive city and bigger tourist destination.

My point is, it isn't about the climate or the flatness as much as it is about how a city is designed and planned. Did I say planned? Now I am in trouble...

I agree... Houston needs to work on becoming more dense and urban in my opinion.

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Video screens can't change that. Doctors, as a rule, will not be impressed by them. Video screens will attract primitive peoples who haven't seen flashing, moving lights before. Expect an influx of people from deep in the Amazon rainforest.

I must disagree. After the redevelopment of Times Square, the majority of visitors do not arrive wearing loincloths, and even the exaulted doctor or two has been known to enjoy the spectacle.

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I agree... Houston needs to work on becoming more dense and urban in my opinion.

More rail would definitely help the city out. We need to get the move on with the inner City light rail lines, and then commuter to the suburbs.

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I think if you look back you'll see that I said video screens were not the solution. But yes, it would be cool to get the indigenous Amazoneans to visit Houston.

Toronto is as flat as Houston and uncomfortably cold more months than Houston is uncomfortably hot, yet it has appeal. Miami hotter and just as flat and it has appeal (okay so Miami has the ocean). Montreal is even colder than Toronto for even longer (6+ months of uncomfortable cold) and has a few hills (which don't impress me) yet it is considered desirable. I don't know about Chicago but I always considered it flat and cold. Dubai is in the middle of a desert, hotter than Houston and sandy, and it has appeal.

My point is, it isn't about the climate or the flatness as much as it is about how a city is designed and planned. Did I say planned? Now I am in trouble...

JAX I Agree with everything that you are saying!!! Great job, because a few weeks ago, while I was walking around Chicago freezing (Late April and a high of 45 degrees) ... off, I just thought about how angry I was, but I crossed the river at Michigan Ave and was in awe of the architectual beauty and the sight of hundreds of tourists (Tourists kill this one specific area of Chicago 85% of the time. Just one area.) walking around freezing. The cold weather gets ridiculous up here at times (I've lived between chicago and wisconsin for a few years..I know cold weather and people talk about weather here, bc it's the biggest negative to the City. "Hey its freezing " a Chicagoans response " Hey, but the summers are nice", yet its June 1st and the last cold front is swinging thru with a high of 63 and low of 50??) So in response to people not liking houston...tell me a city that they love and I can find people that are miserable there..The winters bring about depression, not the summer. People just dont wake up angry in the summer like they do in the winter.

Every city has a glaring negative and if you live somewhere long enough, you will find many of them. However, when I crossed the river it clicked to me that Houston does not have that one glaring positive (that the Superstar Cities (NY, San Fran, Boston and LA) have, no chicago didn't make the list with this group of economists. However, I wanted to point out that there is a second wave of cities that are up and coming (Houston, Charlotte and Austin(Austin actually has a well known San Fran like buzz about it nationally...a really good thing for Houston). So, I wanted to start a thread on here about the same issue that everyone is angry about:

A)Why Downtown Houston continues to struggle, but will soon change

B)Why Houston (being one of the largest cities) does not have the "IT" Factor (Hate to put words in your mouth JAX)

Here's my explanation:

A)Why Downtown Houston continues to struggle, but will soon change

-Suburban sprawl

*The Galleria Area= (#1 "IT" area) Think about the Chrome Light Fixtures, scenery and # of tourists. There are more tourists in this area than Downtown any day of the week and one time when someone from Chicago visited they asked when approaching "Is this downtown". Think about all of the condos and shopping in that area and also how well landscaped it is.

*The Medical Center/Museum District= (#2 "IT" area)....Really nice, but yet unaccessible by a train or a short cab ride from our #1 "IT" area. Let's not

forget that it isn't walking distance from downtown.

* WEST HOUSTON ...(ALL of it, including Washington Ave, the Heights, Montrose,West U and River Oaks all the way to the energy corridor) This maybe one of the biggest culprits of them all behind the Galleria, which is also West! Here's the list and maybe if downtown was located in Highland village, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Here's the list of all the potential $$ that could've gone into downtown or that one it area:

- 2727 Kirby, West Ave, Regent Square, everything on wash ave, the other river oaks mixed use project, the other galleria project that houses Hermes, highland village, uptown park, memorial city.....I don't have time to continue and attempt to name out everything..

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JAX I Agree with everything that you are saying!!! Great job, because a few weeks ago, while I was walking around Chicago freezing (Late April and a high of 45 degrees) and I just thought about how angry I was, but I crossed the river at Michigan Ave and was in awe of the architectual beauty and the sight of hundreds of tourists (Tourists kill this one specific area of Chicago 85% of the time. Just one area.)walking around freezing. The cold weather gets ridiculous up here at times (I've lived between chicago and wisconsin for a few years..I know cold weather and people talk about weather here, bc it's the biggest negative to the City. "Hey its freezing " a Chicagoans response " But the summers are nice", yet its June 1st and the last cold front is swinging thru with a high of 63 and low of 50??) doesn't this sound like "hey, its humid" .."but the real estate is cheap and the winters are nice"

Pick your poison, but remember it gets colder in most places (-5 w.chill -20) than it gets hotter in houston (95 index 108, but it' also 90 everywhere else).

So in response to people not liking houston...tell me a city that they love and I can find people that are miserable there..The winters bring about depression, not the summer. People just dont wake up angry in the summer like they do in the winter.

Every city has a glaring negative and if you live somewhere long enough, you will find many of them.However, when I crossed the river it clicked to me that Houston does not have that one glaring positive(that the Superstar Cities (NY,San Fran, Boston and LA) have. However, I wanted to point out that there is a second wave of cities that are up and coming(Houston, Charlotte and Austin(Austin actually has a well known San Fran like buzz about it nationally...a really good thing for Houston)

So, I wanted to start a thread on here about the same issue that everyone is angry about:

A)Why Downtown Houston continues to struggle, but will soon change

B)Why Houston (being one of the largest cities) does not have the "IT" Factor (Hate to put words in your mouth JAX)

Here's my explanation:

A)Why Downtown Houston continues to struggle, but will soon change

-Suburban sprawl

*The Galleria Area= (#1 "IT" area) Think about the Chrome Light Fixtures, scenery and # of tourists. There are more tourists in this area than in Downtown any day of the week and one time when someone from Chicago visited they asked when approaching "Is this downtown". Think about all of the condos and shopping in that area and also how well landscaped it is.

*The Medical Center/Museum District= (#2 "IT" area)....Really nice, but yet unaccessible by a train or a short cab ride from our #1 "IT" area. Let's not forget that it isn't walking distance from downtown.

* WEST HOUSTON ...(ALL of it, including Washington Ave, the Heights, Montrose,West U and River Oaks all the way to the energy corridor) This maybe one of the biggest culprits of them all behind the Galleria, which is also West! Here's the list and maybe if downtown was located in Highland village, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Here's the list of all the potential $$ that could've gone into downtown or that one it area:

- 2727 Kirby, West Ave, Regent Square, everything on wash ave(not to mention, but wash ave may potentially be the next urban street, but closer in and more upscale than lower westheimer), the other river oaks mixed use project, the other galleria project that houses Hermes, highland village, uptown park, memorial city.....I don't have time to continue and attempt to name out everything, so just check out "GOING UP"

- Let's envision Memorial and Allen Parkway, leaving out of downtown, 10 years from now...This maybe the Skyline that connects downtown to uptown??? That's an actual positive, but we will get to that later...

- So what does downtown get? A park and H.Pavillions....

B)Why Houston (being one of the largest cities) does not have the "IT" Factor (Hate to put words in your mouth JAX)

* B/C of the 90's

* B/C of suburban sprawl

* B/C of TMC, Galleria and west Houston

* B/C it will have the "IT" affect when in less than 10 years from now (purely economic)

PART II. (Education and the positives of Houston being at the bottom for so long, that it will thrive in the future)

* economics and real estate (and the thing that connects the two)== MONEY

1) The average american is currently being priced out of the superstar cities...where do they migrate? Usually somewhere more affordable

2) The average american college grad making over 45k/yr is priced out of the s.star city...where do they migrate? Usually somewhere more affordable and that provides career opportunities

3) The young married couple with a combined income of greater than 120K...that's priced out of the nicer areas of the s.star ? they go to the gentrified areas and push up the price of land in the s.star cities to astronmical rates....

4) Oh by the way, gas prices are seeming high for america, but not as high across the board internationally...We still have a ways to go! http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

5) Oh by the way, how why does houston have the 2nd highest number of fortune 500 co's now? Cost of doing business is cheaper in Texas and...there's no state income tax

6) food for thought..the average american family is worse off now than in the 70's..the middle class is waving "bye, bye"

* What this means for houston

1) People and businesses are relocating here bc it's a better financial environment...period

2) Perfect example...You'd be shock to know that personal fitness trainers make more money in Houston than in southern Cal..Why so? the company has to pay for its real estate, the customer has to pay for their real estate, and the trainer is caught in the middle of it. In houston, people tend to have more discretionary income...you think the average person has discretionary income to just throw around in NY or SF...(assuming they dont work in finance, etc)

3) Houston has been the place that's saved up its capital and resources while providing for the average person...10 years from now, the western inner loop of houston and the galleria area will have over inflated real estate prices and you will all be happy for the density that's been created. The reason I choose the western inner loop is b/c of this:

*Manhattan

*San Fran proper (7x7 sq miles)

*Boston

*Downtown Chicago

*west LA (b.hills, santa monica,etc...our closest city in resemblence)

4) Increased Gas prices are actually assisting houston in 2 ways and I hope they keep going up.... http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

* The higher the gas, the less people want to drive, the more they gravitate to the city circle..this pushes up the demand of areas that surround places of business (downtown, galleria and energy corridor)

* Historically speaking, suburban sprawl is a new phenom that wont last much longer and it's is dying out....the lifestyle is just unsubstainable to human nature.

* The more money the oil co's make, the more it drives capital back into houston

* People will actually want to work, live and play in the same area and not be dependent on cars....This is exactly why so much money is being put into Houston right now...Sprawl killed houston along with the american dream of moving out to the burbs...Just imagine life in California, and believe me, everything you here about a cost of living adjustment for relocating is false. If you make 50k in houston, you will make 55k in chicago and maybe 58k in New York...Businesses are into making and keeping money, not handing it out to employees who want to relocate!

Sorry, but in closing the people on this board are building houston one $ at a time...just invest in houston and don't expect things to change overnight. It's impossible that sprawl will continue to kill this city, just think about how wash ave will one day be walked into downtown by pedestrians that live in 6th ward, midtown or east end. We just have to hope that our neighbors accept mixed use, bc that will provide our "IT" Factor..

http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

Edited by sowanome
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There is no underground parking, right? Many of the renderings and models that only show the office tower and not the residential portion still show some driveways coming up from underground on the north side of two of the lots. We never saw any digging at the site, right?

If they're not there, I'm glad b/c it would have really bad for sidewalk traffic.

modelv1_lg.jpg

Edited by lockmat
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IMHO, Houston won't ever become a fashionable city. It doesn't matter what we do because people who have never been here will think oil (evil), Enron (crooks), humidity (bad hair days), sprawl (hard to get around), Bush (with his Pappa around, people still equate Houston with GWB), mothers who drown their multiple kids in bathtubs, etc...

What Houston needs to do is become a BETTER PLACE FOR HER RESIDENTS.

The downtown park is a nice start. If you go back and re-read that thread, it is full of doubting Thomases. Many of those D.T.s are now singing Discovery Green's praises. Nice public spaces that bring people together with plenty of activities have the potential to become INCREDIBLE spaces over time.

My next desire is for people to come together to help fund the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. That truly has the potential to change Houston. If visitors like it, that's just an added bonus.

That said, adding video billboards to Main Street downtown really doesn't do anything for our image or for making downtown a place people will want to live. Would you really want to buy a unit that has light pollution every night until midnight? I wouldn't. Noise and light pollution are major inhibitors to downtown's residential growth which is why I am happy to see the nightclubs failing.

People will want to live downtown IF there are quality restaurants around, access to grocery stores, pocket parks, public places to walk dogs, coffee shops that are open past business hours, etc... These are the things downtown needs more of; not tv screens.

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My next desire is for people to come together to help fund the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. That truly has the potential to change Houston. If visitors like it, that's just an added bonus.

my dream

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IMHO, Houston won't ever become a fashionable city. It doesn't matter what we do because people who have never been here will think oil (evil), Enron (crooks), humidity (bad hair days), sprawl (hard to get around), Bush (with his Pappa around, people still equate Houston with GWB), mothers who drown their multiple kids in bathtubs, etc...

What Houston needs to do is become a BETTER PLACE FOR HER RESIDENTS.

The downtown park is a nice start. If you go back and re-read that thread, it is full of doubting Thomases. Many of those D.T.s are now singing Discovery Green's praises. Nice public spaces that bring people together with plenty of activities have the potential to become INCREDIBLE spaces over time.

My next desire is for people to come together to help fund the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan. That truly has the potential to change Houston. If visitors like it, that's just an added bonus.

That said, adding video billboards to Main Street downtown really doesn't do anything for our image or for making downtown a place people will want to live. Would you really want to buy a unit that has light pollution every night until midnight? I wouldn't. Noise and light pollution are major inhibitors to downtown's residential growth which is why I am happy to see the nightclubs failing.

People will want to live downtown IF there are quality restaurants around, access to grocery stores, pocket parks, public places to walk dogs, coffee shops that are open past business hours, etc... These are the things downtown needs more of; not tv screens.

See, I don't WANT Houston to be a major Tourist destination. I want Houston for people to be a fun place for people that HAPPEN to be in Houston for business, family, and people that come to visit for business/conventions.

I want Houston to be able to have more amenities for the people that live here that would enjoy as well as out of towners, but I don't want it "touristy" or else we would wind up like Austin or San Antonio ("Saint Antonio" for those that don't speak spanish).

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IMHO, Houston won't ever become a fashionable city. It doesn't matter what we do because people who have never been here will think oil (evil), Enron (crooks), humidity (bad hair days), sprawl (hard to get around), Bush (with his Pappa around, people still equate Houston with GWB), mothers who drown their multiple kids in bathtubs, etc...

I agree w/Kinkaid about people's perception about Houston....The one thing that I can say, is that everytime someone visits from out of town, they are surprised...usually in a good way. I guess everyone expects to see horses and tumble weeds...People are also envious of our weather, believe it or not. Having been transplanted into the Midwest for a number of years, I can't count how many times people have asked me..Why are you here, why did you leave the weather? However, we are still known as Bush Country... I cant wait until November.

Keep Raising Gas Prices....(Kill Suburban Sprawl)

Edited by dbigtex56
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  • Highrise Tower changed the title to Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street

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