Houston19514 Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 it'd be nice to see a "regular" hotel too (although looking at holiday inn/days inn's track record downtown, i'm not hopeful at all).The track record of the Holiday Inn/Days Inn some 20 or years ago is hardly relevant. One might instead look to the track record of the currently-operating Holiday Inn Express, or even the Crowne Plaza or Doubletree, or Courtyard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted November 15, 2006 Share Posted November 15, 2006 The track record of the Holiday Inn/Days Inn some 20 or years ago is hardly relevant. One might instead look to the track record of the currently-operating Holiday Inn Express, or even the Crowne Plaza or Doubletree, or Courtyard.i see what you mean - i was thinking even more low-endthe large-ness of the holiday inn/days inn, and the expense of keeping it open in that location was not feasible, and places like the montagu, where the ultimate goal is to provide lower rates for a decent room (slow process) don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkjones98 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I drive past these lots everyday, and just recently they placed a Porto-potty and one of those big cargo crates on the middle lot. It looks to me like they are going to start closing off the parking lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I drive past these lots everyday, and just recently they placed a Porto-potty and one of those big cargo crates on the middle lot. It looks to me like they are going to start closing off the parking lots. I guess those laxitives someone mentioned earlier in this thread are working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) I guess those laxitives someone mentioned earlier in this thread are working! Where there's a port-a-potty, there's usually construction SOMEWHERE nearby. I've been driving downtown again today and didn't even notice it! then again, I don't recall being in that particular part of downtown. Woo-hoo! I started page Thirty-two! Edited November 16, 2006 by ricco67 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) i see what you mean - i was thinking even more low-endthe large-ness of the holiday inn/days inn, and the expense of keeping it open in that location was not feasible, and places like the montagu, where the ultimate goal is to provide lower rates for a decent room (slow process) don't exist.Doesn't the Holiday Inn Express meet your criteria? As most of the existing hotel's rates have risen fast, I too would like to see some more lower-rate properties. Edited November 16, 2006 by Houston19514 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Doesn't the Holiday Inn Express meet your criteria? As most of the existing hotel's rates have risen fast, I too would like to see some more lower-rate properties.yeah - weekend rates there aren't too bad at all. of course, for a weekend, you'd have to reserve a little more in advance than say, today. i also forgot about the motel on main at 59 - but there's something about that place that i can't quite put my finger on - probably why i forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 yeah - weekend rates there aren't too bad at all. of course, for a weekend, you'd have to reserve a little more in advance than say, today. i also forgot about the motel on main at 59 - but there's something about that place that i can't quite put my finger on - probably why i forgot. Because of it's proximity to the far left lane of north-bound 59? [sorry...strayed off there a bit] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Nov. 16, 2006, 12:02PMPavilions developers change residential design$160 million downtown project is entertainment hubArticle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 ^^Said co-developer Geoffrey Jones, "After analyzing the residential component we have decided it would not be feasible."Jones and co-developer William Denton, who have been friends for 26 years and separately have developed numerous commercial and residential projects in Houston and other major markets, said the residential space required underground parking that would have been too expensive to create, resulting in unrealistic lease rates.Very interesting....wonder if any other changes are in the works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimberlySayWhat Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 It's scheduled to open in less than a year? That seems sooner than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Very interesting....wonder if any other changes are in the works.The model depicted in the article had two towers. One with the familiar office lofts, the other unknown. I wonder what that is...or whether the Chronicle just used a file photo and goofed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 It's scheduled to open in less than a year? That seems sooner than I thought.October 2008 (the completion date stated in the article) is almost 2 years from now... ;-)The model depicted in the article had two towers. One with the familiar office lofts, the other unknown. I wonder what that is...or whether the Chronicle just used a file photo and goofed it.I'd put my money on the latter... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 The model depicted in the article had two towers. One with the familiar office lofts, the other unknown. I wonder what that is...or whether the Chronicle just used a file photo and goofed it.The older model had three towers. I suppose there are two office towers and formerly, one residential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 The older model had three towers. I suppose there are two office towers and formerly, one residential.And the even older model had only two towers. I'd bet that they're showing that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimberlySayWhat Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Houston19514:October 2008 (the completion date stated in the article) is almost 2 years from now... ;-) Oh, duh. No wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 And the even older model had only two towers. I'd bet that they're showing that one. You're on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 This is a bummer. This project without the residential buildings is just a larger version of Bayou Place. I wonder if the city/county will want some of the $ back? I am sure a large part of the reason for the local governments to support this project was to help jump start NEW residential building in downtown since everything so far has been conversions. I am much less inclined to want to support this project with public funding without the residential element. While still a plus overall for downtown, it's really nothing more than an entertainment zone...Seriously, compare it with the Bayou Place and surrounding environsHouse of Blues, Lucky Strike, medical office space, and several restaurants vs. Verizon Wireless Concert Hall, Angelika Theater, Hard Rock Cafe, Bayou Place II offices and Aquarium.None of these really create the kind of environment needed to build a residential base to downtown. It worries me that RENTAL apartments couldn't even make it out of the ground with all the subsidies thrown at the Pavilions. Of course, nobody said they wouldn't work, just that they wouldn't be as profitable. Disappointing but not surprising. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Relax. It isn't the end of the world. The project was only supposed to have about 140 residential units, anyway, as stated on the website:"Condominiums 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 That was for the original project; 140 for sale condos. They then changed that to TWO apartment (rental) towers to be operated by Wood Partners of Atlanta under the Alta name. There would have been 350 plus apartments.Again, the biggest disappointment is that once again, a NEW development (from the ground up for residential purposes) was cancelled. Add this to the Artalia and Shamrock, and it clearly isn't good news for the downtown market. Hopefully Finger's Park Tower will work because someone needs to be the first... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProHouston Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I think y'all are getting upset over nothing. Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread how all this means is that we'll end up getting residential built on other empty blocks nearby this area. You can't tell me that there aren't other developers that wouldn't love to come in and build next to Houston Pavilions, Toyota Center, and Discovery Green. That's the trifecta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 As explained in yesterday's article, the condo project would be really expensive because of underground parking costs associated with a project in that area. HP renderings are pretty much the same sans condo. This is going to be a good thing for downtown. Visitors attending George Brown Convention Center will have a lot more to do downtown within walking distance of their hotels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 This is a bummer. This project without the residential buildings is just a larger version of Bayou Place. I wonder if the city/county will want some of the $ back? I am sure a large part of the reason for the local governments to support this project was to help jump start NEW residential building in downtown since everything so far has been conversions.Actually, I think the city's primary interest was the retail development. Whether it has been new or conversion, the fact is there has been quite a bit of residential development. Street-level retail is where we are lagging. Having said that, I hope (and presume) that HP will be announcing some non-restaurant retail tenants soon. But even if not, it does seem to have some spurred some other street-level retail in the area. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstngoal Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I think y'all are getting upset over nothing. Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread how all this means is that we'll end up getting residential built on other empty blocks nearby this area. You can't tell me that there aren't other developers that wouldn't love to come in and build next to Houston Pavilions, Toyota Center, and Discovery Green. That's the trifecta!I can tell you... and I will. If it was such a hot location for residential develoment, as you indicate, we would have seen some progress by now. I'll throw it back at you... tell me a developer (aside from Finger) who is racing downtown to develop multifamily or condo product.I'm totally with Kinkaid on this... the lack of a residential component in this project IS disappointing. I've recently moved to Seattle and there is so much residential development going on downtown - around and on top of retail space - it'll make your head spin. I would content if these guys can't make residential work on this site in Downtown Houston - with incentives, with a retail element, with A LIGHT RAIL STATION.... please, someone, tell me how can residential ever work downtown?? I love the new park (hate the name)... but it will take more... much more than that.... to create some residential momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2H Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Dang people really need to quit freaking out. I know i'm guilty of having done it but it was just panic. I was thinking that the thing wouldn't get built. As i said earlier, The Denver Pavilions has done great in Denver with drawing retail and other activity. Denver Pavilions doesn't even have residential over that project. I think retail is the main thing that is needed to lure people downtown. Remember this is progress... A bird in the hand is better than two in the Bush . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonfella Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Dang people really need to quit freaking out. I know i'm guilty of having done it but it was just panic. I was thinking that the thing wouldn't get built. As i said earlier, The Denver Pavilions has done great in Denver with drawing retail and other activity. Denver Pavilions doesn't even have residential over that project. I think retail is the main thing that is needed to lure people downtown. Remember this is progress... A bird in the hand is better than two in the Bush . Particularly if it is George BUSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Dang people really need to quit freaking out. I know i'm guilty of having done it but it was just panic. I was thinking that the thing wouldn't get built. As i said earlier, The Denver Pavilions has done great in Denver with drawing retail and other activity. Denver Pavilions doesn't even have residential over that project. I think retail is the main thing that is needed to lure people downtown. Remember this is progress... A bird in the hand is better than two in the Bush . But, we're better off killing two birds with one stone... I guess we'll have to gather our stones one at a time, then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I can tell you... and I will. If it was such a hot location for residential develoment, as you indicate, we would have seen some progress by now.I don't think land values are higher then anywhere Downtown. Being (one of) the only "urban" part of town, things are much different as appose to just building a condo tower around Hermann Park or next to the Galleria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstngoal Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Dang people really need to quit freaking out. I know i'm guilty of having done it but it was just panic. I was thinking that the thing wouldn't get built. As i said earlier, The Denver Pavilions has done great in Denver with drawing retail and other activity. Denver Pavilions doesn't even have residential over that project. I think retail is the main thing that is needed to lure people downtown. Remember this is progress... A bird in the hand is better than two in the Bush . Not so sure about what you mean by "Denver Pavilions has done great." There have been many casualties on the restaurant side - including Wolfgang Puck's restaurant. Other smaller retailers - esp. on the upper levels - are long, long gone. There are many vacancies. Have you been there?? The only portion of the development that does ok is the area that immediately faces 16th Street on ground level. Overall, retail sales have been so-so there.... many in Denver would say that it is not their first choice for a retail destination... even amongst retail centers downtown. Denver didn't need to build residential over the Pavilions project. With LoDo - which is down 16th Street from the Pavilions - flourishing, and now with the Platte River surging with new residential construction, downtown Denver is at least a decade ahead of downtown Houston on the residential side... and that is a best case scenario for downtown Houston. And that is my point... if there was one case for a new residential development in downtown Houston, it would be near amenities (retail, light rail, office jobs) as the Pavilions promises. If the developers can't make it work here (and with incentives, no less!), I am skeptical on creating any real residential density downtown. As Kinkaid stated - it is disappointing. We don't need another Bayou Place (which, I may add, is also heavily subsidized!!)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) Denver didn't need to build residential over the Pavilions project. With LoDo - which is down 16th Street from the Pavilions - flourishing, and now with the Platte River surging with new residential construction, downtown Denver is at least a decade ahead of downtown Houston on the residential side... and that is a best case scenario for downtown Houston. And that is my point... if there was one case for a new residential development in downtown Houston, it would be near amenities (retail, light rail, office jobs) as the Pavilions promises. If the developers can't make it work here (and with incentives, no less!), I am skeptical on creating any real residential density downtown. As Kinkaid stated - it is disappointing. We don't need another Bayou Place (which, I may add, is also heavily subsidized!!)... I can't believe that I'm doing this, but it seems like I need to ask a question. One previously asked by Plastic. Why do we place so much importance on redeveloping downtown Houston? Why are we willing to throw so much money at it? Honestly, for what? Edited November 17, 2006 by TheNiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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