GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[TheNiche]

Yes, and it's exciting to hear that we're primed for highrise residential, even if it takes awhile to get going. Am I correct to assume that Midtown is approaching the same PSF level that would warrant highrises?

Most of it is still in the midrise range. This is good for Midtown, though. The higher the density of units per acre that is required, the slower the rate at which units can be added.

[LTAWACS]

Then I'm sure you'll be posting a more-recent one for us??

Of course not! Do you own homework!

[houstonfella]

This Nov. 3rd article on downtown's new tenants is quite optimistic.

HBJ

Edited November 10, 2006 by houstonfella

[Houston19514]

Of course not! Do you own homework!

Just as I thought, nothing to back up your statement. I have done my homework, and the 2003 study is the most recent one done.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Houston19514

[scarface]

This Nov. 3rd article on downtown's new tenants is quite optimistic.

HBJ

already covered there htown fella . see thread

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=8535

Edited November 10, 2006 by scarface

[houstonfella]

already covered there htown fella . see thread

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=8535

Thanks scarface. Glad I am not the only one who reads HBJ etc. But.... they seem far more optimistic than some of these HAIFers. Time will tell. tick .... tick .... tick .....

[77017]

GROUNDBREAKING ANNOUNCED!!!

Nov. 6th. Boo -Yah!

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories.../09/daily3.html

W W

I told y'all what's going to happen. I'm not being negative. I'm being real. The earlist groundbreaking you might see is probably November, if not, 1st quarter 07.

Groundbreaking will begin around the same time as Shamrock Towers groundbreaking.

[houstonfella]

W W

Actually, the bank gave me the $140 mil. and I am off to a foreign country.

Houston Pavilions will happen and begin construction 2007. STOP worrying. It makes you old.........

[Montrose1100]

It makes you old.........

Yes, however I hope you don't think the opposite does... well... the opposite. I'd hate for you to think all "eternal optimistic" stuff makes you young. Well, it makes you look young, like 14 or so.

Sorry Houstonfella, I love ya, but I had to say it. I appreciate that your optimistic, better to look up then down, right?

[DJ V Lawrence]

From today's Chronicle:

It will not include the residential units, as earlier planned. The retail and offices will remain the same...

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story...nt/4332530.html

[SunKing]

From today's Chronicle:

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story...nt/4332530.html

Interesting article - give a very optomistic picture of downtown development:

Apartment occupancy in downtown is 89 percent, according to data gathered in the spring by Central Houston, a group that promotes downtown revitalization. That's up from 83 percent the year before.

With the top-class office vacancy rate now at less than 10 percent, developers are moving forward with residential projects to capture some of the anticipated demand.

Another developer is proposing to buy and renovate the long vacant Texaco Building with more than 400 residential units.

[SoonerFanInHouston]

What building is the old Texaco building they speak of?

[sevfiv]

What building is the old Texaco building they speak of?

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/Buildi...co_Building.php

[DJ V Lawrence]

Interesting article - give a very optomistic picture of downtown development:

Apartment occupancy in downtown is 89 percent, according to data gathered in the spring by Central Houston, a group that promotes downtown revitalization. That's up from 83 percent the year before.

With the top-class office vacancy rate now at less than 10 percent, developers are moving forward with residential projects to capture some of the anticipated demand.

Another developer is proposing to buy and renovate the long vacant Texaco Building with more than 400 residential units.

3 questions:

1) Why exactly would Houston Pavilions not want to include the residential developments into the project if the market in downtown's in high-demand? I know it'd be expensive, but wouldn't it be worth the investment for the developers?

2) How much will the design change for Pavilions without the residential towers?

3) With the high demand for residential in downtown, and the announcement that residency will not be included in Pavilions, how much will that change the buildings around it? Could we expect that at least one of the buildings across from Pavilions could be converted into an exclusive residential high-rise?

[C2H]

3 questions:

1) Why exactly would Houston Pavilions not want to include the residential developments into the project if the market in downtown's in high-demand? I know it'd be expensive, but wouldn't it be worth the investment for the developers?

2) How much will the design change for Pavilions without the residential towers?

3) With the high demand for residential in downtown, and the announcement that residency will not be included in Pavilions, how much will that change the buildings around it? Could we expect that at least one of the buildings across from Pavilions could be converted into an exclusive residential high-rise?

Hey everyone. Vance brings up a good point. If there's one article that says that the downtown market is doing well, why would the developers pull out of the residential component alltogether?

Oh well, i guess i'm ok with it, as long as this keeps them from having any more set backs. And who's to say they can't add the residential units later?

[Montrose1100]

How many apartments are there Downtown? If the number is low (and I know it is) then a big percent change could just be a few families moving in or out.

Is that the first news article to call the Downtown Park "Discovery Greens" ? (and not be an article about the park?)

And why would the Old Texaco Building have +50 more residential units then Finger's Building? I guess the old building is bigger then I thought.

there's a renewed interest in living downtown that hasn't been seen since the go-go days of Enron.

"The go-go days of Enron." Edited November 14, 2006 by Montrose1100

[houstonfella]

The old Texaco building is a beautiful and ornate building. Weren't there rumors that a Ritz Carlton was going there at one time? I think I would prefer that to newer condos; although having both would be great. I think Texaco is pretty big. The Rice worked out quite well. I think Texaco could be a great lofts/condo place as well. I believe the parking garage across the street was Texaco's parking as well.

[largeTEXAS]

3 questions:

1) Why exactly would Houston Pavilions not want to include the residential developments into the project if the market in downtown's in high-demand? I know it'd be expensive, but wouldn't it be worth the investment for the developers?

2) How much will the design change for Pavilions without the residential towers?

3) With the high demand for residential in downtown, and the announcement that residency will not be included in Pavilions, how much will that change the buildings around it? Could we expect that at least one of the buildings across from Pavilions could be converted into an exclusive residential high-rise?

1) High demand still does not mean you can get the $ per sq ft you need to make a profit.

2) This will only help the pedestrian flow along Dallas. Overall, the design stays pretty much the same. With residential Dallas would have had more ramps, this way it will have fewer.

3) Don't know

[RedScare]

How many apartments are there Downtown? If the number is low (and I know it is) then a big percent change could just be a few families moving in or out.

Is that the first news article to call the Downtown Park "Discovery Greens" ? (and not be an article about the park?)

And why would the Old Texaco Building have +50 more residential units then Finger's Building? I guess the old building is bigger then I thought.

"The go-go days of Enron."

There are 3,137 residential units downtown, with occupancy at 89%. If Finger's place and Texaco materialize, it would jump to 4,000.

[DJ V Lawrence]

1) High demand still does not mean you can get the $ per sq ft you need to make a profit.

2) This will only help the pedestrian flow along Dallas. Overall, the design stays pretty much the same. With residential Dallas would have had more ramps, this way it will have fewer.

3) Don't know

Gotcha on #1 and #3

Wuth #2: Are they just turning the former residency towers into office space, or are the towers be completely eliminated from the design? I thought it mentioned in the article that the office and retail-available space would remain the same. Something would have to give, right?

[2112]

Gotcha on #1 and #3

Wuth #2: Are they just turning the former residency towers into office space, or are the towers be completely eliminated from the design? I thought it mentioned in the article that the office and retail-available space would remain the same. Something would have to give, right?

I'm no real estate type. But hasnt the commercial space in downtown reflected an upward demand, very recently? Maybe the developers of Pavillion re-ran their projections given this upturn...and decided they are better off with office rather than residential....and they will still build the towers, but they will be offices.

If I'm wrong about the upturn, let me know, but I thought that with the Enron building getting filled up, things were looking good on that front.

[TheNiche]

I'm no real estate type. But hasnt the commercial space in downtown reflected an upward demand, very recently? Maybe the developers of Pavillion re-ran their projections given this upturn...and decided they are better off with office rather than residential....and they will still build the towers, but they will be offices.

If I'm wrong about the upturn, let me know, but I thought that with the Enron building getting filled up, things were looking good on that front.

HoustonDevelopment may be privy to more details than I, but my intuition would be that the project wouldn't fly without *something* to replace the residential component. They would need revenue-generating space (of some sort) to cover land costs, and office might fit the bill. Either that, or they may wait out Finger's project and see how quickly it leases up, building onto Pavilions down the road.

[nmainguy]

I'm no real estate type. But hasnt the commercial space in downtown reflected an upward demand, very recently? Maybe the developers of Pavillion re-ran their projections given this upturn...and decided they are better off with office rather than residential....and they will still build the towers, but they will be offices.

If I'm wrong about the upturn, let me know, but I thought that with the Enron building getting filled up, things were looking good on that front.

Office was always in the plans. It's only the residential they have deleted.

[2112]

Office was always in the plans. It's only the residential they have deleted.

I was refering to office space in what used to be residential, on top of the allready planned office space.

[Captain Impossible]

No residential? Are you kidding?

[houstonfella]

Yes, however I hope you don't think the opposite does... well... the opposite. I'd hate for you to think all "eternal optimistic" stuff makes you young. Well, it makes you look young, like 14 or so.

Sorry Houstonfella, I love ya, but I had to say it. I appreciate that your optimistic, better to look up then down, right?

Yeah. Sometimes reality bites. But, I am on the optimistic side of most things. Then when they don't work out, I think "EZ come EZ go" I do believe HP will be built, but obviously changes are inevitable.

[nmainguy]

No residential? Are you kidding?

That's what Sarnoff reported. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4332530.html

We'll know for sure when they actually break ground and the entire project scope is published

[Montrose1100]

There are 3,137 residential units downtown, with occupancy at 89%. If Finger's place and Texaco materialize, it would jump to 4,000.

Yes, 3,137 residential units... Is that just Apartments, or Apartments, Condos, & Lofts?

Edited November 15, 2006 by Montrose1100

[Houston19514]

Yes, 3,137 residential units... Is that just Apartments, or Apartments, Condos, & Lofts?

Apartments, condos, and lofts.

I'm still hoping they'll replace one of the deleted apartment towers with a boutique hotel. I think the timing is right to start construction on some new hotels in downtown Houston.

Would also like to see the Texaco Building go back to plan A, which was a Ritz-Carlton Hotel with condos.

[sevfiv]

Apartments, condos, and lofts.

I'm still hoping they'll replace one of the deleted apartment towers with a boutique hotel. I think the timing is right to start construction on some new hotels in downtown Houston.

Would also like to see the Texaco Building go back to plan A, which was a Ritz-Carlton Hotel with condos.

it'd be nice to see a "regular" hotel too (although looking at holiday inn/days inn's track record downtown, i'm not hopeful at all).