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Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street


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anyone know why emporis is saying that houston pavillions were never built? even though they are being built.

Two of the three larger towers which were originally planned were cancelled. The only relatively 'substantial' one, though scaled down was kept and that is shown. I'm not certain why the dates are incorrect though... but that's what you get when most of the other editors aren't even up on the projects in the area :D

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I'm taking one of my girlfriends there after the Ottmar Liebert concert on the 8th. I'm sure she'll love it.

Uh... ? Anyway. The bartender at the HOB says that they are still working out their kinks. We'll see.

MisterX strongly disagrees with your post! we should all stop our complaining b/c hey, at least the parking lots are gone! what an ungrateful lot around here.... but that;s exactly what should ha

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Houston Pavilions should be stable enough to stand on its own, wherever people come from

I think you have convinced me.

I thought the tunnels were necessary to draw in customers,

But I think you are right, people want something unique & different, they don't want to be immediately sucked into a profile.

They need to be schmoozed first

Edited by TxDave
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Nevetheless, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the tunnels found their way to the Pavilliions, especially if, for example, the Sakowitz Building is finally redeveloped. While I agree with Red that it's not necessary, I often remind myself that this is Houston, and folks don't do things the ordinary, old fashion by-the-book way.

It grates, it astounds and yet it also surprises in some good ways at times. :o

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Houston Pavilions has a webcam on their site!

Houston Paviions

Discovery Green will have a webcam soon as well.

Sweet !!

I know I've asked this before.. but i still don't get it... how can they have each person who views it able to control the camera ?

If several of us all hop on the same time.. it is like remote wars.. I will I just see what one of you is controlling ?

Anwyays.. thanks for the link

EDIT : Nevermind.. i see. This one has a 5 minute timer per person. I'm currently watching someone else control it and zooming in on windows. Pretty neat stuff.

Edited by Highway6
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cool! Ive never seen one where the user can actually physically move the thing around!

as for the tunnels and why downtown doesnt have streetlife, maybe that has more to do with the fact that houston doesnt have a lot of people LIVING downtown?

Edited by zaphod
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downtown doesnt have streetlife

It certainly does! ;) Have you been down Main Street recently? It's booming with bars, night clubs, etc. I've never seen Main Street as active as it is.

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  • 2 weeks later...
That is the coolest webcam I've ever seen. ...archives from every day, weather, map - and Timelapse! :)

Wow, I definitely agree. I never really took the time to check it out until you said it had time-lapse. That is amazing. I didn't know you could actually move it!

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The bar scene is waning.

One thing I remember about Houston was the transience of the club scene. The "cool" place to be was always moving around town. Houston's style always kept something new on the cutting edge.

If the downtown bar scene is waning, where is the next hot spot?

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One thing I remember about Houston was the transience of the club scene. The "cool" place to be was always moving around town. Houston's style always kept something new on the cutting edge.

If the downtown bar scene is waning, where is the next hot spot?

For now, it appears Midtown will be the next place, though things are still pretty scattered there. Sooner or later it will move out of Midtown, too.

One thing that might concern people this time is that, while the observation that the club scene does tend to move around a lot is correct, it hasn't ever seen the investment poured into making it permanent like it did in Downtown. The bars and clubs of Richmond Strip, Shepherd Plaza, Lower Westheimer and such were 1/10 or less of a cash outlay to get going. They were built to be disposable. Owners bought into Downtown to stay there a long time and many lost big. It's not easy to rebound from something like that. HP may be our last chance to see a thriving restaurant, club and bar scene develop in this area and stick. Rather than just dismissing the cyclical pattern as the nature of the business in Houston, perhaps we should look at some causes, to try to avoid this fate in the future.

Metro's lack of vision in destroying the district's infrastructure all at once was a big factor that Downtown just never seemed to shake off. But I believe changing demographics in mainstream clubbing presented the most problems for owners, and will continue to do so, as long as that business continues to be as racially divided as it is. Simply stated, Houston is a town where there are a lot of well-heeled minorities with disposable income for bars and clubs -- more so than many cities, where many of the club-goers at the most posh establishments tend to be white tourists and can recycle. I know there are plenty of notable exceptions to that last statement, but bear with me...

Mainstream club owners open up with the goal of attracting a mostly white audience and build their ambiance to that crowd, as that's how its generally thought money can be made the fastest. Then, about a year in, long before their seven-figure investment is paid off, Houston's small number of tourists and the "Fickle 500" have moved on and are replaced by local, often monied, Black and Asian patrons. They only stick around for a short time, as the atmosphere is slow to change, while the club owner resists re-tooling, in a desperate attempt to save his sinking ship. I've known a few of these guys and they all say the same thing -- they believe as soon as the Black or Asian crowd moves in, the club is done. It's racist and wrong, but it is the prevailing attitude.

So, this club can't support the minority audience that wants to go there and it repels the white audience that no longer finds it relevant. White people in Houston don't feel comfortable around large groups of minorities. Many club owners actually try to push away the paying customers they have to lure them back, but it's too late by then. Hundreds of thousands of dollars later, the club owner is left scratching his head and looking through the help wanted section of the Chron.

I believe that's the reason for the transient nature of Houston's club and bar scene. It's like that in some other cities, too, but not really to the degree we see here. Most other places have a steady influx of tourists that can keep hospitality industries a little more consistent. Here, it's all about the locals and Houston is a diverse city. I hate to say it, but perhaps we should look to Atlanta for some ideas on this matter.

What does this have to do with Houston Pavilions? Well, the local bar and club districts that have bucked the trend I describe above, like The Village, Clear Lake and the 1960 North Side have done so because they have been largely insulated from minorities and have kept their operations quite small, attracting more of a local, neighborhood clientele. There just isn't enough going on in The Village to make most people of color want to drive half-way across town to try it out. HP will be different, though. They will be on people's radar -- everyone's radar. Bayou Place's failure to really take hold should be of prime interest to the developers of HP. I believe it suffers partly from the condition I describe above, as it cannot exist independently from the prevailing Downtown vibe.

It will be an interesting experiment to see if Houston has reached the maturity level to put its racist ways behind it. Because, in order to be successful, HP will have to attract locals -- there aren't enough tourists to keep it going over the long term. I hope, for our sake the club owners have learned, because this time, we're talking nine figures.

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One thing I remember about Houston was the transience of the club scene. The "cool" place to be was always moving around town. Houston's style always kept something new on the cutting edge.

If the downtown bar scene is waning, where is the next hot spot?

washington strip

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For now, it appears Midtown will be the next place, though things are still pretty scattered there. Sooner or later it will move out of Midtown, too.

One thing that might concern people this time is that, while the observation that the club scene does tend to move around a lot is correct, it hasn't ever seen the investment poured into making it permanent like it did in Downtown. The bars and clubs of Richmond Strip, Shepherd Plaza, Lower Westheimer and such were 1/10 or less of a cash outlay to get going. They were built to be disposable. Owners bought into Downtown to stay there a long time and many lost big. It's not easy to rebound from something like that. HP may be our last chance to see a thriving restaurant, club and bar scene develop in this area and stick. Rather than just dismissing the cyclical pattern as the nature of the business in Houston, perhaps we should look at some causes, to try to avoid this fate in the future.

Metro's lack of vision in destroying the district's infrastructure all at once was a big factor that Downtown just never seemed to shake off. But I believe changing demographics in mainstream clubbing presented the most problems for owners, and will continue to do so, as long as that business continues to be as racially divided as it is. Simply stated, Houston is a town where there are a lot of well-heeled minorities with disposable income for bars and clubs -- more so than many cities, where many of the club-goers at the most posh establishments tend to be white tourists and can recycle. I know there are plenty of notable exceptions to that last statement, but bear with me...

Mainstream club owners open up with the goal of attracting a mostly white audience and build their ambiance to that crowd, as that's how its generally thought money can be made the fastest. Then, about a year in, long before their seven-figure investment is paid off, Houston's small number of tourists and the "Fickle 500" have moved on and are replaced by local, often monied, Black and Asian patrons. They only stick around for a short time, as the atmosphere is slow to change, while the club owner resists re-tooling, in a desperate attempt to save his sinking ship. I've known a few of these guys and they all say the same thing -- they believe as soon as the Black or Asian crowd moves in, the club is done. It's racist and wrong, but it is the prevailing attitude.

So, this club can't support the minority audience that wants to go there and it repels the white audience that no longer finds it relevant. White people in Houston don't feel comfortable around large groups of minorities. Many club owners actually try to push away the paying customers they have to lure them back, but it's too late by then. Hundreds of thousands of dollars later, the club owner is left scratching his head and looking through the help wanted section of the Chron.

I believe that's the reason for the transient nature of Houston's club and bar scene. It's like that in some other cities, too, but not really to the degree we see here. Most other places have a steady influx of tourists that can keep hospitality industries a little more consistent. Here, it's all about the locals and Houston is a diverse city. I hate to say it, but perhaps we should look to Atlanta for some ideas on this matter.

What does this have to do with Houston Pavilions? Well, the local bar and club districts that have bucked the trend I describe above, like The Village, Clear Lake and the 1960 North Side have done so because they have been largely insulated from minorities and have kept their operations quite small, attracting more of a local, neighborhood clientele. There just isn't enough going on in The Village to make most people of color want to drive half-way across town to try it out. HP will be different, though. They will be on people's radar -- everyone's radar. Bayou Place's failure to really take hold should be of prime interest to the developers of HP. I believe it suffers partly from the condition I describe above, as it cannot exist independently from the prevailing Downtown vibe.

It will be an interesting experiment to see if Houston has reached the maturity level to put its racist ways behind it. Because, in order to be successful, HP will have to attract locals -- there aren't enough tourists to keep it going over the long term. I hope, for our sake the club owners have learned, because this time, we're talking nine figures.

I say good riddance, anyway. Clubs (specifically nightclubs/danceclubs) are the biggest waste of space on the planet next to crackhouses. I can't stand them. They're good for nothing but noise, drunks, and fights. Give me a restaurant anyday--something that anyone can go to and feel comfortable. Something that will be open in the daytime during the week instead of only late at night. Or if it must be a club, make it a jazz club. If I can't have that, then just give me a vacant building instead.

Dalparadise, people may not like what you've written about the nightclub scene, but I can totally understand what you're saying. I actually hope that HP avoids filling itself with nightclubs like the plague. I detest the nightclub-going scene much like TheNiche seems to not like yuppies.

Sorry for the rant. Nightclubs are just a waste. A complete and total waste. Now jazz clubs--different story.

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I agree - except for the vacant building part. But i think it's important that these spaces don't remain empty and decay. We need something to take the place of those abandoned clubs and keep main street alive.

Edited by Jax
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I agree - except for the vacant building part. But i think it's important that these spaces don't remain empty and decay. We need something to take the place of those abandoned clubs and keep main street alive.

How many abandoned clubs are there? (One thing I had noticed about some of those clubs... during the daytime, some of those buildings looked vacant anyway.)

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I agree - except for the vacant building part. But i think it's important that these spaces don't remain empty and decay. We need something to take the place of those abandoned clubs and keep main street alive.

Yeah, I was exaggerating with the vacant building part--but Houston 19514 makes a great point...they're basically "vacant" during the day and most of the week anyway.

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I say good riddance, anyway. Clubs (specifically nightclubs/danceclubs) are the biggest waste of space on the planet next to crackhouses. I can't stand them. They're good for nothing but noise, drunks, and fights. Give me a restaurant anyday--something that anyone can go to and feel comfortable. Something that will be open in the daytime during the week instead of only late at night. Or if it must be a club, make it a jazz club. If I can't have that, then just give me a vacant building instead.

Dalparadise, people may not like what you've written about the nightclub scene, but I can totally understand what you're saying. I actually hope that HP avoids filling itself with nightclubs like the plague. I detest the nightclub-going scene much like TheNiche seems to not like yuppies.

Sorry for the rant. Nightclubs are just a waste. A complete and total waste. Now jazz clubs--different story.

Blah blah blah blah boo hoo boo hoo :rolleyes:

Sorry... I like dance clubs, quiet restaurants, wine bars, jazz clubs... lots of different places... I just never understood why some people get so bent out of shape over places like dance clubs. If you don't like going to them or are afraid to go to them then just don't go. I like going to dance clubs b/c they are a great place to meet people, socialize with tons of friends, listen to great music and DANCE!! :D

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I agree with HtownWxBoy. I'm more into the casual bar scene, but if you want to go to a club more power to you. However, I probably won't meet you at the dance club.

I don't think the pavilions will have many clubs...if any at all.

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People might accept the dance clubs more if they looked better. I agree with the poster above -- many times they look like abandoned buildings during the day.

What would be great is if a place could be a nice average restaurant during the day, and then at night turn into a dance club, or maybe has a dance club upstairs. Obviously, there's something wrong with this idea or it would have been done in the past.

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Whether we like dance clubs or not isn't really the issue here. Some people like clubs, some people do not. The question is: are clubs good for downtown? Personally, I really think we need to mix it up a bit.

St. Laurent is a good example of a street in Montreal (English people call it "The Main" because it really is the main street even though it does not have that name). St. Laurent has all of the most active clubs in the city BUT it is still very much alive during the day. St. Laurent is filled with 5-8 story buildings with a mix of retail, restaurants, and clubs on the bottom floors and apartments on the upper floors. During the day, the stores and restaurants are open, and at night the clubs are open - so the street always feels alive. If St. Laurent had only clubs then it would be more like Main Street - relatively dead during the day.

If Main Street had some clubs, but also had more daytime businesses as well, you'd be able to walk down the street in the day or at night and it would be active (or at least more active than it is now at off times).

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Whether we like dance clubs or not isn't really the issue here. Some people like clubs, some people do not. The question is: are clubs good for downtown? Personally, I really think we need to mix it up a bit.

St. Laurent is a good example of a street in Montreal (English people call it "The Main" because it really is the main street even though it does not have that name). St. Laurent has all of the most active clubs in the city BUT it is still very much alive during the day. St. Laurent is filled with 5-8 story buildings with a mix of retail, restaurants, and clubs on the bottom floors and apartments on the upper floors. During the day, the stores and restaurants are open, and at night the clubs are open - so the street always feels alive. If St. Laurent had only clubs then it would be more like Main Street - relatively dead during the day.

If Main Street had some clubs, but also had more daytime businesses as well, you'd be able to walk down the street in the day or at night and it would be active (or at least more active than it is now at off times).

Totally agree... we need a mix of EVERYTHING Downtown. Apartments, Lofts, Office Buildings, Restaurants, Dance Clubs, Bars (all different types), Grocery Stores, Jazz Clubs, Retail Stores, Parks, Movie Theaters, Hotels, the Theater District.... and more more more!! :D

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People might accept the dance clubs more if they looked better. I agree with the poster above -- many times they look like abandoned buildings during the day.

What would be great is if a place could be a nice average restaurant during the day, and then at night turn into a dance club, or maybe has a dance club upstairs. Obviously, there's something wrong with this idea or it would have been done in the past.

Taco Milagro at Kirby and Westheimer is like this I think. It's a restaurant but pretty known for Latin dancing some nights.

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Taco Milagro at Kirby and Westheimer is like this I think. It's a restaurant but pretty known for Latin dancing some nights.

i'm not sure i would describe taco milagro as a club, even part time. yes they play music sometimes and some people dance but club would be stretching it IMO.

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i'm not sure i would describe taco milagro as a club, even part time. yes they play music sometimes and some people dance but club would be stretching it IMO.

I agree with you that it would be pushing it to call it a dance club, but there this are quite a few people that pack this place and there are quite a few people that do dance. It's a great cross between a neighborhood bar and Dance bar.

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So, this club can't support the minority audience that wants to go there and it repels the white audience that no longer finds it relevant. White people in Houston don't feel comfortable around large groups of minorities. Many club owners actually try to push away the paying customers they have to lure them back, but it's too late by then. Hundreds of thousands of dollars later, the club owner is left scratching his head and looking through the help wanted section of the Chron.

I believe this happened at mBar.

I go to Hush every so often, and while I'm a major minority there, I've never had a real problem. Yes, once or twice some people were being rude or ugly to my friends and I, but that can happen anywhere.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Highrise Tower changed the title to Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street

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