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Sorry to get off the subject of the Pavillions for a moment and go back to another subject that was discussed earlier in this thread when I was talking with a few people about the redo of the Exxon builing. Well I got a closer look at the building that I was talking about originally. Although I wish the Exxon building redo was more dynamic I was actually talking about the building directly south of it. In fact when you are on the spur exiting and you see the Exxon building this one is shorter and exactly in the shadow so it kind of blends in. It looks to be half as tall as the exxon building and has the shadow of an old sign that says Hotel. Also the shadow of a symbol that looks like it might be the Days Inn symbol. Anyway this abandoned looking building bothers me since it can be seen so easily when passing through Houston on the Pierce Elevated. It has broken windows and looks terrible. Anyone know if this has any renovation plans or maybe even just torn down?

Thanks!

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I'm taking one of my girlfriends there after the Ottmar Liebert concert on the 8th. I'm sure she'll love it.

Uh... ? Anyway. The bartender at the HOB says that they are still working out their kinks. We'll see.

MisterX strongly disagrees with your post! we should all stop our complaining b/c hey, at least the parking lots are gone! what an ungrateful lot around here.... but that;s exactly what should ha

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Sorry to get off the subject of the Pavillions for a moment and go back to another subject that was discussed earlier in this thread when I was talking with a few people about the redo of the Exxon builing. Well I got a closer look at the building that I was talking about originally. Although I wish the Exxon building redo was more dynamic I was actually talking about the building directly south of it. In fact when you are on the spur exiting and you see the Exxon building this one is shorter and exactly in the shadow so it kind of blends in. It looks to be half as tall as the exxon building and has the shadow of an old sign that says Hotel. Also the shadow of a symbol that looks like it might be the Days Inn symbol. Anyway this abandoned looking building bothers me since it can be seen so easily when passing through Houston on the Pierce Elevated. It has broken windows and looks terrible. Anyone know if this has any renovation plans or maybe even just torn down?

Thanks!

do a search under "days inn"

anyway, drove by the site and it looks like they shut down the middle parking lot.

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Sorry to get off the subject of the Pavillions for a moment and go back to another subject that was discussed earlier in this thread when I was talking with a few people about the redo of the Exxon builing. Well I got a closer look at the building that I was talking about originally. Although I wish the Exxon building redo was more dynamic I was actually talking about the building directly south of it. In fact when you are on the spur exiting and you see the Exxon building this one is shorter and exactly in the shadow so it kind of blends in. It looks to be half as tall as the exxon building and has the shadow of an old sign that says Hotel. Also the shadow of a symbol that looks like it might be the Days Inn symbol. Anyway this abandoned looking building bothers me since it can be seen so easily when passing through Houston on the Pierce Elevated. It has broken windows and looks terrible. Anyone know if this has any renovation plans or maybe even just torn down?

Thanks!

there are some older threads around here:

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=2338

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...?showtopic=1352

but nothing hopeful in the works as of now

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i went there Saturday afternoon to take some pics of the area. i took several looking east from Main. I then went to the lot that was already torn up. I took several there and i only have one question. What used to be there? I mean there were old steal beams deep in the ground, that had to have been for an early building, warehouse, etc. does anyone know about this. I will post all my pics when i upload them for everyone to see.

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I keep reading posts that suggest Pavillions is somehow going to magically change the interest in living in DT Houston, even though it has no residential component. However, when I think of the project, there is nothing about it that compels me to think "oohh, I just have to move DT to be closer to that." It's OK to have hopes for DT, but lets be real. A bowling alley, some restaurants, and a clothing store for 18-24 year old women is not going to make anyone want to move DT. Build some more units, put some support retail in place (e.g. dry cleaners, urban market, Crate & Barrel, etc.) add some more parks, and bring those tunnel shops above ground, then DT will be cooking.

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I keep reading posts that suggest Pavillions is somehow going to magically change the interest in living in DT Houston, even though it has no residential component. However, when I think of the project, there is nothing about it that compels me to think "oohh, I just have to move DT to be closer to that." It's OK to have hopes for DT, but lets be real. A bowling alley, some restaurants, and a clothing store for 18-24 year old women is not going to make anyone want to move DT. Build some more units, put some support retail in place (e.g. dry cleaners, urban market, Crate & Barrel, etc.) add some more parks, and bring those tunnel shops above ground, then DT will be cooking.

LOL! Crate & Barrel is a support retail? Who knew life could not exist without one of those. Downtown will / should never become a suburb. Suburbanites left the city and created their own "world" outside of it, they shouldn't return and expect "suburban" life.

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LOL! Crate & Barrel is a support retail?

concur!!

After reading an article in SmartMoney magazine, i know i wouldn't buy furniture there.

In a recent article titled "Pottery Barn Unstuffed," the magazine spent thousands of dollars on pieces from Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware, and Crate and Barrel.

It claimed that a $400 Pottery Barn coffee table has an easily chipped veneer just one-fortieth of an inch thick.

It also found a $900 Crate and Barrel chair had thin cardboard shaping the arms.

It also claimed a $1,200 Crate and Barrel bed was held together by screws into particle board.

can you say low quality?

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LOL! Crate & Barrel is a support retail? Who knew life could not exist without one of those. Downtown will / should never become a suburb. Suburbanites left the city and created their own "world" outside of it, they shouldn't return and expect "suburban" life.

lol. I knew someone would make fun of the Crate & Barrel example. However, the need for "stuff" like plates, drinking glasses, shelving, furniture doesn't cease to exist in an urban environment. The demographic that will be able to afford life DT probably won't buy their stemware from Walmart. Just so I can understand your thinking. . .which stores, in your mind, are "urban," and which ones are "suburban?"

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lol. I knew someone would make fun of the Crate & Barrel example. However, the need for "stuff" like plates, drinking glasses, shelving, furniture doesn't cease to exist in an urban environment. The demographic that will be able to afford life DT probably won't buy their stemware from Walmart. Just so I can understand your thinking. . .which stores, in your mind, are "urban," and which ones are "suburban?"

Target is at the most a 5 minute drive from DT. They won't buy Wal-Mart, but they'll buy Tar-zhay!!!

Edited by GovernorAggie
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lol. I knew someone would make fun of the Crate & Barrel example. However, the need for "stuff" like plates, drinking glasses, shelving, furniture doesn't cease to exist in an urban environment. The demographic that will be able to afford life DT probably won't buy their stemware from Walmart.

crate & barrel IS walmart quality.

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lol. I knew someone would make fun of the Crate & Barrel example. However, the need for "stuff" like plates, drinking glasses, shelving, furniture doesn't cease to exist in an urban environment. The demographic that will be able to afford life DT probably won't buy their stemware from Walmart. Just so I can understand your thinking. . .which stores, in your mind, are "urban," and which ones are "suburban?"

i believe that your "urban crate and barrel" is already in the works based off of previous articles. i think that the company that owns the clothing boutique wish is supposed to open a lifestyle store in the sakowitz building - as to when that will happen, who knows, but i believe that is supposed to have more of your plates/ glasses/ furniture type retail. don't remember where the article was that had that, but i remember seeing that before.

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crate & barrel IS walmart quality.

That may be true in some cases. However, I'm not trying to debate, or otherwise contest your point of view regarding the quality of merchandise sold at Crate & Barrel. My point, simply, was that people who live DT will need a place to buy household items. . .and the place should be preferably close to where they live. If you guys want to divert the topic to the quality of items sold at Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn, etc, go right ahead.

i believe that your "urban crate and barrel" is already in the works based off of previous articles. i think that the company that owns the clothing boutique wish is supposed to open a lifestyle store in the sakowitz building - as to when that will happen, who knows, but i believe that is supposed to have more of your plates/ glasses/ furniture type retail. don't remember where the article was that had that, but i remember seeing that before.

Thanks. If you locate the article, please let me know. :)

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I keep reading posts that suggest Pavillions is somehow going to magically change the interest in living in DT Houston, even though it has no residential component. However, when I think of the project, there is nothing about it that compels me to think "oohh, I just have to move DT to be closer to that." It's OK to have hopes for DT, but lets be real. A bowling alley, some restaurants, and a clothing store for 18-24 year old women is not going to make anyone want to move DT. Build some more units, put some support retail in place (e.g. dry cleaners, urban market, Crate & Barrel, etc.) add some more parks, and bring those tunnel shops above ground, then DT will be cooking.

It's just one very important piece of the overall puzzle, man. I don't know that anyone is seriously making a claim that HP and HP alone is going to cause people to want to move downtown. But HP does not and will not exist in a vacuum. Downtown will be a better, more vibrant, and more cohesive place with HP than it is without HP. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect that its presence will indeed help to encourage people to move downtown. And it will also help to encourage more retail to open up on street level downtown, which will in turn encourage even more residential development... etc etc etc.

And btw, since you apparently haven't been paying much attention at all, downtown is indeed adding "more units" (One Park Place under construction, more reportedly in the works), and more park space (Discovery Green under construction, and really quite a bit of greenspace already exists in and on the edges of downtown Houston), has already added some support retail (e.g. dry cleaners and pharmacies) and an urban market is planned for the ground floor of One Park Place.

Sorry, no Crate & Barrel just yet, but we can buy our drinking glasses and furniture at Macy's for the time being. ;-)

So it appears that we're well on our way to "cooking", according to your recipe.

Edited by Houston19514
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I keep reading posts that suggest Pavillions is somehow going to magically change the interest in living in DT Houston, even though it has no residential component. However, when I think of the project, there is nothing about it that compels me to think "oohh, I just have to move DT to be closer to that." It's OK to have hopes for DT, but lets be real. A bowling alley, some restaurants, and a clothing store for 18-24 year old women is not going to make anyone want to move DT. Build some more units, put some support retail in place (e.g. dry cleaners, urban market, Crate & Barrel, etc.) add some more parks, and bring those tunnel shops above ground, then DT will be cooking.

Insofar as there are vacant units downtown for people to move into if they want to, it doesn't matter at this point in downtown's development that Pavilions doesn't have a residential component. What do you care whether there are a few hundred anonymous neighbors living nearby? The retail, stadia, theaters, parks, other entertainment venues, and of course jobs, are what drive residential demand for downtown Houston.

The tunnel shops aren't coming up to the surface, btw, but new shops entering the downtown market will go to the surface (if only for lack of options).

Edited by TheNiche
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That may be true in some cases. However, I'm not trying to debate, or otherwise contest your point of view regarding the quality of merchandise sold at Crate & Barrel. My point, simply, was that people who live DT will need a place to buy household items. . .and the place should be preferably close to where they live. If you guys want to divert the topic to the quality of items sold at Crate & Barrel, Pottery Barn, etc, go right ahead.

Thanks. If you locate the article, please let me know. :)

Article from HBJ re: shops in Sakowitz Bldg etc.

So if this comes to pass, along with the other items under construction, I guess we will have completed your recipe and downtown Houston will be fully "cooking". ;-)

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Well, no cranes yet, but I guess this is close enough...

This is so funny. All along I've been thinking this thing was another Shamrock,that it would just keep getting delayed and never happen, but when I saw the announcement two weeks ago that financing was secured and it would be breaking ground soon, I thought to myself, "Well, maybe I was wrong. It looks like this thing really is going to happen."

BIG MISTAKE! And now only days, DAYS before groundbreaking, they delay it again... 'til February! And does anyone on here, who has watched the fate of visionary projects like this in Houston over the years, really think that come March, we will be seeing cranes above this site?

Believe me, I'd love to be proven wrong, and if there are cranes in March, you can certainly quote the above sentence and I will hang my head in shame. But I thought I was proven wrong a few weeks ago, and then at the last moment, in the final hour, the Houston Pavilions snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

They did it. No residential, but they took out three parking lots, which is an achievement no matter how you slice it. H-Town Man hangs his head in shame.

:closedeyes:

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i believe that your "urban crate and barrel" is already in the works based off of previous articles. i think that the company that owns the clothing boutique wish is supposed to open a lifestyle store in the sakowitz building - as to when that will happen, who knows, but i believe that is supposed to have more of your plates/ glasses/ furniture type retail. don't remember where the article was that had that, but i remember seeing that before.

The heard that the company that owns WISH also owns American Apparel and used to own DUO at the Galleria. Is that company doing ok?? The store at the Galleria closed b/c of back rent in excess of $80,000 was not paid. The galleria changed the locks and seized all the merch inside.

Edited by joshuajbp
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While there are numerous posts as to what may constitute the "perfect" downtown living environment, perfection is not required for people to live downtown. People adapt to their environment. And, most do not sell their cars, even if they enjoy using them as little as possible. In that vein, having a grocery store less than half a mile away is tolerable, if not perfect. Target less than a mile away is also tolerable. Furniture and household goods, being stores that are visited much less frequently, are likely not on many "must have" lists, but dry cleaners and a clean corner grocery would be.

An active nighttime scene would be a requirement for some. However, given the income required for most to live downtown, 20-something hip-hop bars are likely not a draw. Restaurants, the sports and arts venues, casual bars, bookstores and coffee shops will probably appeal more to the potential downtown resident than overly loud, overly young niteclubs.

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The heard that the company that owns WISH also owns American Apparel and used to own DUO at the Galleria. Is that company doing ok?? The store at the Galleria closed b/c of back rent in excess of $80,000 was not paid. The galleria changed the locks and seized all the merch inside.

They are now located at dunlavy and Westheimer across the street from Cafe Brasil right next door to American Apparel. It's the building where Mid Centtury Modern Furniture use to be.

Which block at Main and Lamar is the Sakowitz bldg ?

It's more Main at Dallas across the street from Macy's on Main.

Edited by WesternGulf
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While there are numerous posts as to what may constitute the "perfect" downtown living environment, perfection is not required for people to live downtown. People adapt to their environment. And, most do not sell their cars, even if they enjoy using them as little as possible. In that vein, having a grocery store less than half a mile away is tolerable, if not perfect. Target less than a mile away is also tolerable. Furniture and household goods, being stores that are visited much less frequently, are likely not on many "must have" lists, but dry cleaners and a clean corner grocery would be.

Exactly. I've been living downtown for the past year. I think downtown is already a great place to live. I also think a lot of people have it backwards when it comes to evaluating livability. People tend to compare downtown to some hypothetical "perfect urban environment" where happiness hinges on the ability to secure all necessities by foot. I find it more useful to compare downtown to Katy or any other place where people who work in Houston live. Using this approach downtown offers the following:

1. The best morning and evening commutes in the city

2. Easy access to all major freeway

3. Access to Memorial

4. The ability to avoid using freeways

5. The lowest crime rate in Houston (based on zip code)

6. No "apartments" and no possibility of "apartments" in the future

7. A private downtown parking space

8. Rail access to the medical center

9. Target, Randells, and CVS within 2-3 miles

10. Proximity to the Uptown, Rice Village, Washington Ave

Edited by jdbaker
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1. The best morning and evening commutes in the city

2. Easy access to all major freeway

3. Access to Memorial

4. The ability to avoid using freeways

5. The lowest crime rate in Houston (based on zip code)

6. No "apartments" and no possibility of "apartments" in the future

7. A private downtown parking space

8. Rail access to the medical center

9. Target, Randells, and CVS within 2-3 miles

10. Proximity to the Uptown, Rice Village, Washington Ave

Couldn't agree more!

(But I don't like the fact that people waiting for busses like to urinate in my buildings bushes, YUCK)

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I keep reading posts that suggest Pavillions is somehow going to magically change the interest in living in DT Houston, even though it has no residential component. However, when I think of the project, there is nothing about it that compels me to think "oohh, I just have to move DT to be closer to that." It's OK to have hopes for DT, but lets be real. A bowling alley, some restaurants, and a clothing store for 18-24 year old women is not going to make anyone want to move DT. Build some more units, put some support retail in place (e.g. dry cleaners, urban market, Crate & Barrel, etc.) add some more parks, and bring those tunnel shops above ground, then DT will be cooking.

I don't think HP is going to, itself, completely change Downtown... I just think it's going to be a big stepping stone. HP could help attract "some" people to live Downtown... and there is also the new Fingers building going up which will have street-level retail. All of this will hopefully attract more retail... and maybe stuff like a food market, dry cleaners, etc. This in turn will hopefully attract more people and more residential projects... and then more retail... and then more people and residential projects... and so on and so forth.

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Do Books A Million sales dvd's and cd's?

I don't think so. But the prices for those items are WAY too high in Barnes and Noble, Borders, etc. I am sure that there will be some sort of "entertainment" oriented store in HP that would sell electronics, games, music, movies, etc. It just seems to fit the mantra.

On the other hand, I think that the "urban" concept of this Books-A-Million will be the first of its kind for that company. So maybe they'll include music and movies.

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They are now located at dunlavy and Westheimer across the street from Cafe Brasil right next door to American Apparel. It's the building where Mid Centtury Modern Furniture use to be.

It's more Main at Dallas across the street from Macy's on Main.

So DUO just moved or maybe it was a second location already opened before the Galleria location shut down? I work at the Galleria and saw the notice posted on DUO glass door stating that the locks had been changed and they had 10 working days to pay $80,000 in back rent or the merch would be seized. I find it hard to believe they'd just open up a new store if they got kicked out of the Galleria. Seems like there'd be some sort of legal repercussion going on... <shrug>

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On the "Downtowner" map that block had the Scottish Rite Cathedral and some used car lots.

Thank you Subdude.

Looks like all 3 surface lots have been just about that for the last 67 years, many used car lots. I want to know what they did out from the corner filling station on Dallas and Caroline. Ill post my pics later. Im curious though as to how this Freds Hotel looked like on Main an Fannin in 1940. I need to dig through old pics.

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Have any of you been to Urban Market in Dallas? They need an equivalent in downtown Houston. It's a real jewel to have two blocks from my (current) residence. Having to drive to Randall's (or worse, much further to a less overpriced store) is a pity. :(

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So DUO just moved or maybe it was a second location already opened before the Galleria location shut down? I work at the Galleria and saw the notice posted on DUO glass door stating that the locks had been changed and they had 10 working days to pay $80,000 in back rent or the merch would be seized. I find it hard to believe they'd just open up a new store if they got kicked out of the Galleria. Seems like there'd be some sort of legal repercussion going on... <shrug>

Duo moved completely, according to one of their employees to "get more room", and so they could sell furniture. But I think its bull. Its stupid to open up so close to their sister store Wish, a couple blocks down, which sell some of the EXACT SAME clothes... :closedeyes:

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On the other hand, I think that the "urban" concept of this Books-A-Million will be the first of its kind for that company. So maybe they'll include music and movies.

I hate to disapoint you, but they have stores in urban locations such as upont Circle in DC, and they do not sell CDs. Joe Muggs does have good coffee though.

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I hate to disapoint you, but they have stores in urban locations such as upont Circle in DC, and they do not sell CDs. Joe Muggs does have good coffee though.

It won't disappoint me that they don't sell CD's. They're way overpriced at bookstores to me. I saw 8-9 year old CDs at a Borders in Fairfax, VA for like $18.99! Insane!

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They are now located at dunlavy and Westheimer across the street from Cafe Brasil right next door to American Apparel. It's the building where Mid Centtury Modern Furniture use to be.

when did they open ??

Edited by what
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So DUO just moved or maybe it was a second location already opened before the Galleria location shut down? I work at the Galleria and saw the notice posted on DUO glass door stating that the locks had been changed and they had 10 working days to pay $80,000 in back rent or the merch would be seized. I find it hard to believe they'd just open up a new store if they got kicked out of the Galleria. Seems like there'd be some sort of legal repercussion going on... <shrug>

[/quote

...when did you notice the lock-out ????

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So DUO just moved or maybe it was a second location already opened before the Galleria location shut down? I work at the Galleria and saw the notice posted on DUO glass door stating that the locks had been changed and they had 10 working days to pay $80,000 in back rent or the merch would be seized. I find it hard to believe they'd just open up a new store if they got kicked out of the Galleria. Seems like there'd be some sort of legal repercussion going on... <shrug>

[/quote

...when did you notice the lock-out ????

dont remember the exact date... late jan - early feb. I thought it was really awesome that the galleria just plastered their business on the inside of a glass door for the whole mall to see. lol How exactly do you miss 80,000 in rent?? Im sure they were sent noticed beforehand. anyway. this has gotten off topic. :)

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