GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[C2H]

I don't know why, but until I saw this rendering, I thought the streets wouldn't go threw it, and it would be just pedestrian streets... Thats alot of traffic, for such a "pedestrian friendly" project. Look how close the people are, just a foot or so away from a herd of cars. Looks angry.

to answer your question, i happen to know at the Denver Pavilions, there's a skywalk that allows residents the option of crossing at street level w/ the cars or simply crossing over the bridge going over the street so the cars & traffic is not going to be a huge concern

Edited February 15, 2006 by C2H

[DJ V Lawrence]

I believe you are right. And frankly, I'm glad they decided (at least at this point) to scrap it. I'd like the Houston DT hotel market to stand pat for a few more years to see if we can get area occupancy back up to a more healthy 67% (non-Katrina related).

From what I hear, one thing city officials have been trying to do is increase the number of hotel rooms downtown dramatically over the next 5-10 years. If Houston Pavillions does what it's supposed to do, there could be enough hotel revenue for both Hilton Americas, a hotel at the Pavillions site, AND the other hotels already downtown.

[WesternGulf]

I rather not see a hotel at the pavilion site so a hotel could take up another surface lot nearby. Also, is the Hilton Americas suppose to be mixed use? Did they introduce the project with ground floor retail?

[Houston19514]

I rather not see a hotel at the pavilion site so a hotel could take up another surface lot nearby. Also, is the Hilton Americas suppose to be mixed use? Did they introduce the project with ground floor retail?

No. The Hilton Americas is not "suppose to be mixed use". And it was never, to my knowledge, introduced with ground floor retail. Around the time the hotel was being developed, the city acquired the property in front of the hotel from Crescent Real Estate (the property that now is going to be the park). At that time the city said it intended to try to develop retail on that property,to complement the Hilton and the GRB. Perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

[J.A.S.O.N.]

It'd be nice to see some palms used in the landscaping instead of those trees

[DJ V Lawrence]

It'd be nice to see some palms used in the landscaping instead of those trees

I agree

[The Great Hizzy!]

I'd like to see more palms downtown too but I actually like those trees in the image (not sure what type they are, though).

[houstonfella]

I'd like to see more palms downtown too but I actually like those trees in the image (not sure what type they are, though).

But those trees ... well ... hopefully would grow to be like those in the pics. I'd like palms included as well.

[Saddleman]

Palms don't provide the cover from the elements (sun and rain) that would be nice in that area.

[The Great Hizzy!]

^^^ Good point. 'Course, the counter argument would be that you wouldn't have to clean up under palms as much because the rate of leaf/limb loss isn't as great, and birds tend to use palms at a lesser rate than other trees to build nest or congregate.

[MidtownCoog]

I used to have a link to the COH master plan for downtown tree planting.

Palms were not in the equation.

I think theere are a few plams near St. Joe's, but this is usally handled by the city.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Don't forget the palms on Louisiana between Prairie and Preston.

[MidtownCoog]

Did I tell you I hate palms?

UH for example planted palms at Robertson adjacent to 150' tall live oaks.

Houston is not a palm city.

[WesternGulf]

Something about the palms at St Joseph look extremely out of place and not that attractive. I guess it does not contrast with the building too well.

[nmainguy]

Ever been hit in the head by a falling palm frond? It really hurts.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Did I tell you I hate palms?

UH for example planted palms at Robertson adjacent to 150' tall live oaks.

Houston is not a palm city.

Damn, Page 22

I remember a lot of palm trees planted in the Uptown area, particularly on Westiemer on both sides of 610, plus I think there's a few around Toyota Center. Palms can work in Houston depending on the property around it. Seems to give the landscape more of an exclusive, tropical, higher scale feel. Not many major American cities can have palms in their landscape year around, but Houston can, and I think it'd be cool to have some within Houston Pavillions.

I agree with Midtown Coog though that it may not look too professional if it's just an unorganized looking mix of palms and live oaks. That wouldn't make sense.

[ssullivan]

No palms downtown. They don't fit with what's already there, and they provide no shade and cover from the elements. If you want downtown to be pedestrian friendly, you need trees that offer some protection from our killer summer sun.

As for the street closings, as others said, that was never in the equation for this project. The Denver Pavillions project doesn't have any street closings either. It works very well, with crosswalks at street level for pedestrians, and elevated walkways over the streets connecting the upper-level retail and restaurant spaces.

I really can't wait for this project to happen. I always try to hit downtown Denver at least one night when I'm there for work, and the Pavillions development there really is a nice addition to their downtown. I hope ours turns out as nice, and to be as successful.

[WesternGulf]

Isn't Denever Pavilions on the 16th street pedestrian mall? I am all for great urban planning but I am starting to hate the whole pedestrian mall atmosphere. I might be a minority but I wish they opened up Main around Preston station to car traffic again.

Edited February 17, 2006 by WesternGulf

[MidtownCoog]

I might be a minority but I wish they opened up Main around Preston station to car traffic again.

Yep. You are a minority.

This area is neat, and we need more. I walk it all the time from Dallas to McKinney.

Try it. You'll like it.

[WesternGulf]

Yep. You are a minority.

This area is neat, and we need more. I walk it all the time from Dallas to McKinney.

Try it. You'll like it.

I love how you are assuming I haven't. By the way, I am not talking about Main Street Square but the part where they eliminate cars only on the weekend where the streets look even more dead around Preston Station. People hardly walk in the streets anyway. I am sure we will need all the space we can get this weekend but we all know this concept is not even necessary on an average weekend in downtown Houston.

[2112]

I love how you are assuming I haven't. By the way, I am not talking about Main Street Square but the part where they eliminate cars only on the weekend where the streets look even more dead around Preston Station. People hardly walk in the streets anyway. I am sure we will need all the space we can get this weekend but we all know this concept is not even necessary on an average weekend in downtown Houston.

wha...? It seems to me that everytime I go downtown on fridays or especially saturday nights, main street around preston station is crawling with people. The partying drunk ones. Every weekend.

The blocking off of that area seems to work nicely there.

[bkjones98]

They started tearing up the concrete in the San Jacinto @ Polk corner of the Polk-Main-Clay-San Jacinto lot.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

They started tearing up the concrete in the San Jacinto @ Polk corner of the Polk-Main-Clay-San Jacinto lot.

Is this considered ground breaking? Or does there need to be a groundbreaking ceremony?

[bkjones98]

Just saw these on the website. Don't remember seeing them yet.

This place is going to be BIG.

Edited February 28, 2006 by bkjones98

[eelimon]

Just saw these on the website. Don't remember seeing them yet.

This place is going to be BIG.

for those of you who dont know here is the link to the website.

[WesternGulf]

^^ You're trying to get this to page 23 aren't you?

[nmainguy]

^^ You're trying to get this to page 23 aren't you?

BTW, what is the longest running thread in this forum?

[worldlyman]

The recent color renderings at the Houston Pavilions website are beautiful! When it's finally built, I think in context with the rest of its environs, those drawings won't do them justice.

Downtown H-town has a chance to be the Sun Belt's neat little slice of Tokyo or Times Square. If they can refurbish around the Pavilions even more, it's the start of something great. Good things come to good cities that wait.

San Diego's downtown got a 13 year head start in 1985 with the dawn of the Horton Plaza, still an awesome place to hang out...but now that it's just about fulfilled out here...some serious architectural criticism is that the Gas Lamp in general is nothing but a Disneyland for grownups. Houston's potential is far greater yet.

In contrast, downtown Houston, which commenced rebirth in 1998 with Bayou Place, already has beautiful urban canyons like Smith St. and Main/Travis...with the burgeoning nightlife...

the Pavilions is the second catalyst that's an even much greater one than the big bad bunker on Smith@Texas was.

[The Great Hizzy!]

The biggest test for DT Houston, I think, will be how the new urban park and the proposed developments near it will eventually tie in with Houston Center, the Pavillions and then the Main Street Corridor.

Meanwhile, I'd like to see how the renovation of the Bayou--once it lands east of I-45 will be incorporateed into the northern end destinations like Market Square, Allen's Landing, the Aquarium, Bayou Place, the Theater District, and so on.

In echoing Subdude, a really great opportunity exists to develop mid-size residential projects near MMP, where old warehouses are already being redeveloped into new housing (Iron Works, etc). If we're patient and these public and private projects come to fruition, it's going to be an exciting 10-15 years for DT.

But baby steps. At least they're manuevering on the plot site for Houston Pavillions, what with the land sampling or whatever is taking place on the central block.

[eelimon]

^^ You're trying to get this to page 23 aren't you?

Why do you think that

Edited March 5, 2006 by eelimon