GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[SMUrban]

I wish the HOB would bring a more vibrant live music scene in the way of new venues for Houston. Part of having a city that is attractive to the citizens as well as tourists is a vibrant music scene. I love cities such as Austin and New Orleans, where you can pop into 5 or more clubs/bars a night and see different kinds of live music. I think Houston lacks this scene, at least in a concentrated area (I don't live in Houston, nor have I since I was two, so if this exists please correct me). With the influx of musical talent from New Orleans I was hoping this would change. Aside from Sammy's right outside of downtown, I haven't been to any other bar or club that has live music. If we could have 10-12 Sammy's in a 2-3 block area that have different genres of music live 5-7 nights a week, I believe that would go along way to creating a desirable neighborhood in or around downtown.

[The Great Hizzy!]

at least in a concentrated area

Here's exactly where your point seems to develop credibility. It isn't that it's not available, it's that it is not concentrated. This, we agree on.

[houston-development]

Everyone knows what the common usage for 'ghetto' is. Frankly, I think this is a 'wink-wink' post, but if you confront the definition, he denies it.

but that would be a "dastardly inuendo"

[dbigtex56]

but that would be a "dastardly inuendo"

Oooo!

I think I just found my new drag name.

[Houston19514]

Wow. It's amazing to me that none of the big office-supply chains (Staples, OfficeMax, Office Depot) has noticed the potential market of downtown Houston. Sometimes I wonder who is in charge of these places...

[Saddleman]

They deliver.

[MiDTOWNeR]

Oooo!

I think I just found my new drag name.

I love it!!!

LMAO

Maybe in your neck of the woods, the locals ARE as*holes. They just aren't in mine.

You may be on to something there.

[ghost]

It's my honor to start HAIF's first ever page 20

I am curious: is there anyone in HAIF that lives Downtown? I was always curious as to if having the nearest grocery store in Midtown was a setback or not for residential development.

I live downtown. Well, I guess my area now is called neartown (Montrose and West Dallas). I moved from Midtown (Bagby and McGowen) in September. When I lived off Bagby, the Midtown Randalls was the closest grocery store. I could have walked. However, with lots of groceries, that 3 block walk would have been rather arduous.

Where I live now, the Kroger on West Gray is the closest grocery store. For the HP, I think that Randalls will suffice, but another store wouldn't be bad. The Randalls parking is terrible and there isn't a major development in the area. I can't imagine what the crowd will be like with the HP coming.

I'm not a CE but I just jumped into this Storm Water Management business and I'm trying to prospect for great opportunities to begin pushing this Atlantis Raintank product into the Houston market. We actually have our first installations in Houston coming up in the next month. One will be at the new Commerica Bank on Gessner and the other being at English & Associates Architects. I am hoping this will springboard this product into the front of C.E., architects, and developers minds. It is a great low cost alternative to surface detention/retention ponds and the traditional underground concrete or pipe system.

Sounds interesting. I am a CE EIT and should be taking my PE exam in October. What are the sizes of these tanks? Basically, the detention pond size depends on the size of the development. The larger the impermeable land, the larger the detention pond. For example, we worked on a new subdivision for Alvin and the required storage for detention was approximately 27 acres. For those applications, I would assume that your product isn't applicable.

[houstonmacbro]

maybe this:

i think a singing cowboy in his underwear is ghetto OR trashy ... take your pic with words, but the sentiment is the same.

awful.

[dbat_01]

I am a CE EIT and should be taking my PE exam in October. What are the sizes of these tanks? Basically, the detention pond size depends on the size of the development. The larger the impermeable land, the larger the detention pond. For example, we worked on a new subdivision for Alvin and the required storage for detention was approximately 27 acres. For those applications, I would assume that your product isn't applicable.

It would be applicable in any situation. The tanks can stack up to be over 7' tall and placed side by side to accomodate any situation. If you had a subdivision like in Alvin, instead of placing the raintank all in one area like you would a surface pond, you figure out the total cubic feet of water storage needed, and divide it up among the number of houses you have. You place these tanks under each individual driveway and along ditches. The benefit to this is that, if you choose, you can use the stored water for irrigation. All the water that drain off of the road and into the ditch will be treated as it permeates through the soil, and you can eliminate storm drains and expensive inlets. It also gives you the opportuntiy to build 81 more houses on that 27 acres that was once used for a pond. We actually have KB Homes interested in putting these in their subdivisions, and I anticipate others will follow. If you want to sit down and talk about it feel free to give me a call at 281.923.4517. From now on let's move this conversation to the "retention / detention pond" forum so these pavillion guys don't get upset with us. Good luck on your PE exam.

[dbat_01]

I Found this today, they have an approximate completion date and architect:

"Houston Pavilions, a 700,000-sf mixed-use project in downtown Houston is expected to open in late 2007, according to its developers, Geoffrey Jones and William Denton. The $200 million project covering three city blocks, will be bounded by Dallas St. to the north, Polk St. to the south, Main St. to the west and Caroline St. to the east. The project will have 350,000 sf of retail space, 200,000 sf of office and a 12-story condo tower with 140 units. The developers have lined up a $8.8 million development grant from the city and a $5.5 million grant from Harris County. The House of Blues, a Los Angeles-based group, will open a concert venue/nightclub in the project. Other House of Blues locations include Las Vegas and Orlando. Architects for Houston Pavilions include Hellmuth, Obata + Kassabaum, Inc. (HOK) and Dallas-based retail design architecture group Laguarda.Low. The BlackRock Realty Tower Fund is the principal financial partner of Houston Pavilions"

[2112]

Amen brother. Hey, I live in the Montrose area... and rarely - very rarely - make my way outside of the loop for shopping. I'm already at the Angelika very frequently, and will be at the Pavilions often when open. Houston's population inside the loop is as large as Denver's population within the city limits... and they have a vibrant downtown shopping/entertainment scene - and the Cherry Creek area (much like Houston's Galleria). Additionally, Denver is ringed with new lifestyle centers - as Houston is getting. And c'mon everyone... Houston's MSA population is twice Denver's!!! There is no reason why H-town can't have a vibrant retail scene throughout the city... including downtown.

The fact that Houston's population is 2.1 million, and that its metro population is 5.5 million, should mean that this project is going to succeed, as along as it doesnt suck. Ther entire Houston city and Houston area feeds the districts such as downtown and uptown. And we got plenty of millions to fuel this project. I think downtown is going to have its second major explosion of revitalization just by this one project. I cant wait.

The only thing that worries me is that there will be a significan negative impact to Bayou Place. I hate to see BP deteriorate. But then again, it allready has been out-shined by main street/market square. Who knows, maybe having Pavillions will bring in so many people, that some will wonder over to PB and make that place start happening again.

Edited February 4, 2006 by 2112

[NewMND]

I also wonder what will happen to Bayou Place. They have the Angelika and the Verizon Theater, which are cool, but then they also have Hard Rock, which, I dunno, just seems so 1980s to me. Of course I have no ideas on how to update Bayou Place so that it will complement Pavillions, and not try to compete with it. Maybe somehow cater more to the Theater District crowd?

[SMUrban]

Bayou Place is such a disappointment, especially considering the other developments the company has done. Look at the the website, it's just pathetic... http://www.bayouplace.com/ . Everytime I've been down there it's been dead, that facility has so much promise. I almost wish they had been delayed a few years and borrowed from similar projects that came online after Bayou Place. Check out Cordish's website and click on "New Developments" to see the other projects they've been involved with. http://www.cordish.com/

[KimberlySayWhat]

they also have Hard Rock, which, I dunno, just seems so 1980s to me.

I know. Do people still make point to visit these whenever they're visiting someplace? I never have a desire to dine there while I'm visiting another city. I used to go to the old Hard Rock Houston location a lot in the '90s, but that wore thin fast.

[Montrose1100]

I've never been to any hard rock cafe, and only one Planet Hollywood.

Anyone notice those huge buses outside of city hall on the weekends full of tourists (mostly elderly) that stray into the Visitor's center? I wonder if They would go to the Pavillions once opened?

[KimberlySayWhat]

I've eaten twice (I think) at the Houston Planet Hollywood and once at the Dallas location. Those, too, are pretty much once you've been to one, you've been to them all. House of Blues should be different since it's not only a restaurant, but a music venue as well.

[bkjones98]

I know. Do people still make point to visit these whenever they're visiting someplace? I never have a desire to dine there while I'm visiting another city. I used to go to the old Hard Rock Houston location a lot in the '90s, but that wore thin fast.

I agree. I ate at the Hard Rock in BP when I first moved back to Houston after college. The food was over priced and the service sucked. If I want to spend $30 for a hamburger and a beer I'll go to the Men's Club, thank you.

Edited February 5, 2006 by bkjones98

[editor]

It's my honor to start HAIF's first ever page 20

I am curious: is there anyone in HAIF that lives Downtown? I was always curious as to if having the nearest grocery store in Midtown was a setback or not for residential development.

I lived in downtown Houston for a while. First at Live Oaks (which later became Oakwood Houston, and is now something else I think) and then at Dakota Lofts. The best thing that ever happened to downtown was when that Randall's opened in Midtown. And when it did you could totally see the pressure being put on the Kroger on West Gray. Within weeks the customer service people became real bitchy and the quality of the food and the ammount of items on the shelves all took a nosedive, I think because so many people from Montrose, downtown, and Midtown went to the new store which was shiny, clean, nice, friendly, and had a Starbucks upstairs. That Kroger really went to Hell quickly and I stopped shopping there in fairly short order when they started having problems getting in basic items and it got dirty. Nothing bothers me more than a dirty food store. I know supermarkets operate on razor thin profit margins, so I assume that the manager had a hard time getting in new stuff when all of his customers fled.

That said, what would really help downtown most are a couple of coffee shops that stay open late at night and on weekends, and a couple of convenience stores. Not having a convenicence store wasn't too bad at the time because I worked southwest so Randall's was on my way home and I could just pop in. But many times it would be nice to walk to pick up some milk rather than fight suburban commuters to get to the other side of downtown (this was before light rail was finished, too).

And I know people around here really hate all the Walgreens popping up everywhere, but I think it would help the north side of town if there were a few, maybe near the Franklin Lofts. Drug stores don't have to be soulless wasters of urban space. There are NINE Walgreens within a ten-minute walk from my place now, and not one is a standalone. They're all in buildings at least 30 stories tall, so it's not like they are unable to do it in Houston, they're just unwilling for economic or other reasons.

The same could be said of grocery stores. There are four grocery stores within walking distance of where I live. All of them are in the basement or first floor of 50 story residential condo towers. Maybe if Houston developers had the guts to build a few tall residential blocks clustered together then the supermarkets, drug stores, etc... will come and next thing you know you have a real urban neighborhood.

[dbigtex56]

That said, what would really help downtown most are a couple of coffee shops that stay open late at night and on weekends, and a couple of convenience stores.

Darn tootin'.

Last weekend a fellow HAIFer and I were talking with a demolition worker at the Penn Hotel. He asked where the closest place was to get a bite to eat (at 12:30am on a Sunday morning). And even though we're both chock full of HAIFiness, neither of us could come up with a good answer. (uh...House of Pies on Kirby?)

Too bad the Deco Diner didn't live up to its original concept. You'd think that there would be a market for a all-night breakfast place in the heart of downtown - a lot of people come out of those nightclubs hungry.

[eelimon]

Darn tootin'.

Last weekend a fellow HAIFer and I were talking with a demolition worker at the Penn Hotel. He asked where the closest place was to get a bite to eat (at 12:30am on a Sunday morning). And even though we're both chock full of HAIFiness, neither of us could come up with a good answer. (uh...House of Pies on Kirby?)

Too bad the Deco Diner didn't live up to its original concept. You'd think that there would be a market for a all-night breakfast place in the heart of downtown - a lot of people come out of those nightclubs hungry.

I say who ever has the money and the smarts to open a Waffle House in the Montrose, Downtown, Midtown, Rice Military and all over inside the 610. They would make bank!

There is always IHOP. there is one on the I-10 off Washington, there is one in the Gulfgate, and there is one near Kirby and the 59.

[RedScare]

Pig Stand on Washington at Sawyer. Good grease!

[MidtownCoog]

Forget IHOP.

Dot's Diner is where its at.

[gto250us]

Why a Virgin Megastore? I been to one, and it don't have nothing inside. It's just has a nice flashy sign on the outside. I'd rather a FYE then Virgin.

I thought they were opening a Mega Virgin Store.

[Gary]

I say who ever has the money and the smarts to open a Waffle House in the Montrose, Downtown, Midtown, Rice Military and all over inside the 610. They would make bank!

There is always IHOP. there is one on the I-10 off Washington, there is one in the Gulfgate, and there is one near Kirby and the 59.

Theres also an IHOP near the Medical Center on Holcomb. Damn good eggs and coffee after an evening on the town.

[eelimon]

Theres also an IHOP near the Medical Center on Holcomb. Damn good eggs and coffee after an evening on the town.

We should start a petition to get a Waffle House installed at The Pavilions

[MidtownCoog]

We should start a petition to get a Waffle House installed at The Pavilions

All due respect, but are you still drunk?

Waffle House?

Oh man.

[Gary]

We should start a petition to get a Waffle House installed at The Pavilions

I know your kidding but I don't think it's such a bad idea.

[eelimon]

All due respect, but are you still drunk?

Waffle House?

Oh man.

LOL call me Limon the Lush

[travelguy_73]

It's my honor to start HAIF's first ever page 20

I am curious: is there anyone in HAIF that lives Downtown? I was always curious as to if having the nearest grocery store in Midtown was a setback or not for residential development.

I'm downtown and shop either at Randall's or the Kroger on Gray (Randall's natural food section is abysmal). I don't think that NOT having a grocery store in the heart of downtown makes that much of a difference, at least not to me. I am so used to getting in my car for everything from a quick bite to eat, coffee, to drive the 1.5 miles to my office (natch), that driving to the grocery store comes naturally. Sure it would be nice to walk instead of drive, but lugging 6 bags of groceries home on foot leaves something to be desired.

As others have mentioned, I think the biggest setback to life downtown is the lack of places to eat and hang out after the work day and on the weekends. That, and weekend metered parking for my friends!