GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[C2H]

^Houston's MSA is more than the whole state of Colorado.

Very True! Take it from a resident of Colorado- Colorado has about 5million in the whole state!

2.5 million sits in the Denver metro area and Colorado Springs, where i live, is about half a million and is the second largest city in the state. The next on the list is Pueblo which is about 150,000, just a little bigger than Witchita Falls TX. In Fact, Aurora, Lakewood, and Westminster allo have populations considerably bigger than Pueblo's, but they fall in the Denver Metro Area, so they're not really counted as separate.

My point being, is Houston MSA, being considerably larger should have competitive retail and transportation options that should be at least comparable to a city like Denver's, which is half the size. Denver is still ahead in those venues but i see Houston quickly catching up. As far as the people and diversity, Houston definitely has that over Denver. The thing that makes me mad about Houston more than anything is their forever expanding freeway system and failure to implement more rail.

Edited January 29, 2006 by C2H

[MiDTOWNeR]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

[tierwestah]

There won't be a grocery store downtown for a long time, if ever.

i thought there were plans to turn the bottom portion of Stowers into a grocery store!

And C2H, what made you decide not to move to Houston? It sounds like you live in Mayville if Houston metro has more people in it than your entire state has. You decided that Houston wasn't the place for you? Too ugly, hot, humid? What?

Edited January 29, 2006 by tierwestah

[scarface]

i hope Dallas doesnt get a HOB too! I think the mistake alot of Texas Cities have made is trying to compete with eachother so much to the point that they all are basically becoming replicas of eachother. If Dallas opens up an HOB as well, it will definitely take away the uniqueness aspect of the Pavilions.

[bkjones98]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

I'm not sure if it "special," but I am sure that it is a really great place to see live music. It

[Jeebus]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

Are you even vaguely familiar with the House of Blues, or what venues typically play there? Have you been to Times Square in the past five years?

Please explain your definition of "ghetto people".

[dalparadise]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

I've been to Times Square a few times, but have never seen House of Blues there.

The only HOB I've visited was the one in LA. It was great, with good live music and a really great crowd. I'd estimate the crowd to be half and half locals and tourists. It would be awesome if Houston Pavilions could draw the same mix. No one there was ghetto, either...not at those prices.

Dallas does not have a HOB. I think the company books the talent for the old Starplex amphitheater, which is that performance venue out by Fair Park. It's kind of their version of the Woodlands Pavilion, though the thing in Dallas is a pit. Closer in, sure, but a real toilet.

Edited January 29, 2006 by dalparadise

[C2H]

i don't mean this as an attack but is it me or does Midtowner's posts usually contain a lot of negative vibes toward this city?

Midtowner, i understand Houston is not a perfect place but if you hate it so much, what's keeping you. Jobs do transfer if that's your reason.

Edited January 29, 2006 by C2H

[C2H]

i thought there were plans to turn the bottom portion of Stowers into a grocery store!

And C2H, what made you decide not to move to Houston? It sounds like you live in Mayville if Houston metro has more people in it than your entire state has. You decided that Houston wasn't the place for you? Too ugly, hot, humid? What?

you wouldn't say that if you saw Denver! Even Colorado Springs has matured quite a bit but to answer your question, both cities have their own shares of sprawl. Colorado Springs is like one huge suburb with much much housing and tourist parks. On the architecture side, it hardly has any landmark buildings, you have to go to Denver for that. Denver might have a lower population than Houston, but that still means nothing. Denver has a very vibrant Downtown and has other vibrant areas throughout the city and the entire metro. Denver is very progressive!

And no. I wasn't turned off by Houston at all. I don't think Houston is ugly, it's actually very nice in many parts. And it has big, bold buildings throughout the city but no natural scenery, but i didn't see much scenery in any city i've been in Texas. Closest i got to natural scenery i'm used to seeing in Colorado was Austin. And i've never been to El Paso or West Texas but i hear they have mountains.

The reason i didn't come to Houston is because my job was opening up two locations in Texas: Dallas and Houston. I have family in Houston so i was trying to come to Houston. And plus from my past visits, i felt Houston to be the most exciting city in Texas. However, my job didn't select me to come to Houston so i'm stuck in Pleasantville/Mayville (as you call it) city of Colorado Spgs. Probably be stuck here for the rest of my life!

But anyway moving on from off-subject stuff- Houston Pavilions: It will be great for dt Houston .

Edited January 30, 2006 by C2H

[WesternGulf]

Retailers I would love to see at Pavilions:

Diesel

Virgin

Niketown

Express Women and Men (need some decent priced jeans)

Borders

H&M (I don't wear it but people keep talking about it)

A good burrito joint

A store that sells a wide array of athletic shoes (Journey's possibly eventhough they are all around the metro.)

Edited January 30, 2006 by WesternGulf

[RedScare]

i don't mean this as an attack but is it me or does Midtowner's posts usually contain a lot of negative vibes toward this city?

Midtowner, i understand Houston is not a perfect place but if you hate it so much, what's keeping you. Jobs do transfer if that's your reason.

Maybe he misses the "Garden State".

[dalparadise]

Retailers I would love to see at Pavilions:

Diesel

Virgin

Niketown

Express Women and Men (need some decent priced jeans)

Borders

H&M (I don't wear it but people keep talking about it)

A god burrito joint

A store that sells a wide array of athletic shoes (Journey's possibly eventhough they are all around the metro.)

I think God eats wraps, not burritos.

Regarding Denver and Houston's population -- remember on any given day, both Denver and Colorado Springs have thousands of tourists -- most of which are on the streets or using mass transit, eating in restaurants, drinking in bars, shopping, going to games, etc. A large part of Denver's development caters to this dynamic. Houston Pavilions is our first serious shot at this market since The Galleria. It is the future of our city's ability to draw people into Downtown. It's also just a baby step. How other areas around HP react to this development will tell the ultimate tale.

[NewMND]

Retailers I would love to see at Pavilions:

Diesel

Virgin

Niketown

Express Women and Men (need some decent priced jeans)

Borders

H&M (I don't wear it but people keep talking about it)

A god burrito joint

A store that sells a wide array of athletic shoes (Journey's possibly eventhough they are all around the metro.)

Yes, a Diesel, I totally forget we don't have one of those, it would be good in the Pavillions. Maybe also a Adidas World or whatever it's called, and a Puma. Some type of neat-o electronic/gadget place. I wonder what other stores Houston doesn't have. I wish there would be news coming out soon on Boulevard Place, a project that seems to have dropped off the face of the planet, I haven't heard anything about it in awhile, I'd like to know what big stores they plan on having to draw people in. I'm sure it would be something upscale where they check your credit before you can enter, like Prada or something.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

Bloomingdales.

I think this would look nice in Houston Pavilions.

Niketown

ESPN Zone

Virgin

Edited January 30, 2006 by CincoRanch-HoustonResident

[WesternGulf]

I doubt this is a project where a whole department store would locate to or any luxury brands like Prada....and yes I meant good in front of burritos.

Edited January 30, 2006 by WesternGulf

[nmainguy]

Another movie cinema.

[dalparadise]

and yes I meant good in front of burritos.

I know, just kidding.

Bloomingdale's would not be a good fit for the Pavilions, itself, but perhaps 5-10 years from now, when the area around it is booming...maybe.

I don't see Prada ever fitting this concept.

Those types of stores tend to cluster together with others of their ilk and act as a draw unto themselves. The Galleria seems to fit this mold well enough.

Here's an idea -- one that would unfortunately mean the end of the downtown Foley's/Macy's. Why not think really big? How about a US Harrod's nearby Houston Pavilion, on par with the Knightsbridge store in London. It could have an Eatzi's-like cafe, Home furnishings, floors of fashion, etc. Harrod's in London is like a mini-Galleria all unto itself. What a coup it would be to bring this brand to the US. It would instantly make Downtown an international destination, both competing with and complementing Uptown. Perhaps it could come as a renovation to the Downtown Foley's (with a large expansion, of course).

[nmainguy]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

Ok, MiDTOWNeR, you win. There is nothing so darn special about a HOB-unless you like live music. I guess I missed out on the ghetto people in Chicago. In addition, I seem to have missed the HOB at Times Square the last 10 -15 times I've been there since the closest one is in Atlantic City. Perhaps someone else could explain it to you better.

[WesternGulf]

I also think they need to go ahead and plop down a kitchen appliance store in there somewhere, but something a little more affordable than Williams Sonoma. I think it will benefit the residents in downtown, even if we only have just under 4,000. Then again, are there really any affordable appliance stores these days? For some reason I wouldn't think a Crate & Barrel would work either.

[nmainguy]

IHere's an idea -- one that would unfortunately mean the end of the downtown Foley's/Macy's. Why not think really big? How about a US Harrod's nearby Houston Pavilion, on par with the Knightsbridge store in London. It could have an Eatzi's-like cafe, Home furnishings, floors of fashion, etc. Harrod's in London is like a mini-Galleria all unto itself. What a coup it would be to bring this brand to the US. It would instantly make Downtown an international destination, both competing with and complementing Uptown. Perhaps it could come as a renovation to the Downtown Foley's (with a large expansion, of course).

I like the Harrod's idea. Big and bold. But while we wait for something like that to happen, it would be nice to see Foley's/Macy's go back to the 10 story department store I knew growing up. I used to love going up and down those escalators in the middle with my mom and dad and sisters shopping for everything from clothes to toys to furniture to whatever. It was like Macy's on Harold Square.

That was a great place. Sakowitz across the street was similar as well.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

Remember my list from the earlier post?(post #2) There is no House of Blues anywhere in New York City. But there's 10 House of Blues in America. That's one reason why it's great to have an HOB in Houston. Think of the cities WITHOUT a House of Blues:

New York City

Miami

San Fransisco

ANYWHERE in Texas

Boston

Detroit (home of Motown)

Seattle

etc.

Now, as you can tell from my icon picture, I fits u profil az uh getto perzon. By the way, why in the world did you even mention Times Square in the first place? And when you refer to bringing ghetto people, are you really referring to yourself?

[DJ V Lawrence]

There won't be a grocery store downtown for a long time, if ever. Randall's is only a half mile away in Midtown, and it is on the rail. Any downtown resident will tell you that is not far. A mini-mart that is clean and up-to-date would be useful, and more likely. Has the basics...beer, smokes, bread, ravioli, coffee. Maybe some of the corner markets will see the light and upgrade.

Pavillions very likely will spur redevelopment of the entire Main Street Square area. It is THAT big. Property owners in that area have been waiting a long time for renewal of this area. To skimp or wait now is to miss the train. Local restaurants and retailers who have been waiting on Downtown to show signs of life will look again, too. Where the northern end of Main has become a club district, this area will likely be more tourist driven, both out-of-town and suburban (yeah, bachanan, that means you ).

The thing to remember is 350,000 square feet and $200 million. The developer will not let it flounder. It will be promoted relentlessly. Smaller fill-in shops that give an area a comfortable feel need these big promoters to bring in the crowds. They then feed off of the strays.

Overall, THIS is why Houston built the GRB 20 years ago, and expanded it in 2002. THIS is why they built MMP and Toyota and the Hilton nearby. Visitors can come to a convention and never leave downtown, and still have plenty to entertain them. When the University line is complete, a visitor can find entertainment in the club district, theater district, museums, Reliant, Pavillions and the Galleria...all without ever getting into a car. Bus service from the stations will allow them to also hit Montrose, W. Gray, Kirby, Rice Village, Westheimer/Richmond, and Memorial Park within a few minutes. Assuming MLS builds a stadium with HISD at Delmar, that is also accessible by BRT. Anyone who cannot find something to entertain them in that wide array of neighborhoods and activities frankly, should have stayed home.

It's my honor to start HAIF's first ever page 20

I am curious: is there anyone in HAIF that lives Downtown? I was always curious as to if having the nearest grocery store in Midtown was a setback or not for residential development.

[dbat_01]

I don't know who the CE of record is, but I do know that nothing has begun yet. People are still parking in those lots and on the streets. I parked there for the Mavericks game and will do so again when I go to the Heat game on Sunday.

dbat - Are you a CE? I assume you might be because of your thread on detention ponds.

I'm not a CE but I just jumped into this Storm Water Management business and I'm trying to prospect for great opportunities to begin pushing this Atlantis Raintank product into the Houston market. We actually have our first installations in Houston coming up in the next month. One will be at the new Commerica Bank on Gessner and the other being at English & Associates Architects. I am hoping this will springboard this product into the front of C.E., architects, and developers minds. It is a great low cost alternative to surface detention/retention ponds and the traditional underground concrete or pipe system.

[MiDTOWNeR]

Now, as you can tell from my icon picture, I fits u profil az uh getto perzon.

Thats funny, I did not say one thing about DA Ali G

[DJ V Lawrence]

Thats funny, I did not say one thing about DA Ali G

I also think it's funny that you didn't answer my question as to why you mentioned Times Square. Or any of the other questions or reactions from the other HAIF members about your post.

[houston-development]

Someone, please explain to me what is so darn special about Houston getting a HOB? It's a touristy kind of thing that brings ghetto people. Anyone been to Time Square?

ive been to several hobs and never had issues with "ghetto people". would ask you to elaborate but i think you have dug a big enough hole...

[hokieone]

You know, before I ever saw a HOB, I thought it was basically the same thing as a Hard Rock - meaning not that cool. But once I went to the one in Chicago, I realized its a really cool place. There was no one playing the night we went, but they have a bar/ lounge area in each that is the "Foundation Room" and it was a very laid back, cool atmosphere. I think it will be a cool thing to have downtown and if you add that to the Meridian, Warehouse Live, Verizon Wireless and even the Toyota Center, there will be 5 great music venue's in the downtown area. Think about around 10 years ago, not a single one of those was around.

[DJ V Lawrence]

You know, before I ever saw a HOB, I thought it was basically the same thing as a Hard Rock - meaning not that cool. But once I went to the one in Chicago, I realized its a really cool place. There was no one playing the night we went, but they have a bar/ lounge area in each that is the "Foundation Room" and it was a very laid back, cool atmosphere. I think it will be a cool thing to have downtown and if you add that to the Meridian, Warehouse Live, Verizon Wireless and even the Toyota Center, there will be 5 great music venue's in the downtown area. Think about around 10 years ago, not a single one of those was around.

Great point!! Don't forget all them theatres we got Downtown, too! (Alley, Wortham, Hobby Center, etc...)

[KinkaidAlum]

The Boston area used to have a House of Blues across the river in Cambridge. It was right in the heart of Harvard Square. Saw a couple of really great shows there about 5-6 years ago. Even saw Buckwheat Zydeco.

I've also been to the HOB in New Orleans for a Sunday brunch. Great times.

This will be HUGE for downtown and the city.

[713 To 214]

While the HOB is certainly not as unique a concept as it used to be, This will be GREAT for DT Houston. Pavillions project looks like it's starting off on the right foot. Now, let's just keep our fingers crossed that we'll actually see the grand opening of this project in all it's proposed glory.