GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[texasboy]

Sakowitz is supposed to be getting an American Apparel store on the ground floor.

Houston Pavilions is going to be next door to Sakowitz on the 3 empty blocks bounded by Main, Dallas, Caroline and Polk.

Also Habita is opening, which is claimed to be a new chic industrial style retail concept. It is suppose to open February 2006.

Also nmainguy, why is your favorite smiley?

Edited November 2, 2005 by texasboy

[tierwestah]

Also Habita is opening, which is claimed to be a new chic industrial style retail concept. It is suppose to open February 2006.

for it to be opening in Feb 06, it sure as hell ain't showing any good signs of progress! Those same damn posters are on the Window of that building that's been there for months, and if you look behind the posters, it's still a parking garage on the inside.

What the hell does CHIC mean anyway? I never understood that!

Edited November 3, 2005 by tierwestah

[Original Timmy Chan's]

What the hell does CHIC mean anyway?

I don't have a dictionary handy, but I believe it's something along the lines of, "overpriced; assigned too much value; exorbitant"

[nmainguy]

I don't have a dictionary handy, but I believe it's something along the lines of, "overpriced; assigned too much value; exorbitant"

chic (shk)

adj. chic

[houstonsemipro]

Wrong. I have a friend in Dallas that has been waiting on Victory for years. Try the 90's. Maybe a Dallasite on this forum could tell you.

So, if Dallas waited this long. What lies for Houston? Longer?

[eelimon]

So, if Dallas waited this long. What lies for Houston? Longer?

You are such a downer houstonsemipro

give us clueless look and everything is OK and canceled

[TJones]

You are such a downer houstonsemipro

give us clueless look and everything is OK and canceled

edited for content.

Edited November 3, 2005 by TJones

[nmainguy]

So, if Dallas waited this long. What lies for Houston? Longer?

Yes.

Longer.

Much longer.

Dallas good.

Houston BAD.

semipro clueless.

[houstonsemipro]

y'all so funny, but I'm speaking the truth. Edited November 3, 2005 by houstonsemipro

[ssullivan]

Exactly and the prices are not that way off from the sheer variety of stuff that they offer. I found the one in NYC jacking up their prices a little bit though.

I think higher than average prices in NYC is not a sign that Virgin is uncompetitive in their pricing. I think that's more a case of the high cost of just opening and maintaining a store in NYC. Everything costs more there. I imagine if you went in Best Buy in NYC you'd see similar prices.

[Talbot]

Man, some of you act like if it isn't starting construction the day after its announced then it's not likely to happen.

[lilcurleyqz]

Virgin does not have to be competative in their pricing, they're virgin.

Furthermore, the reason everyone is up in arms about this project getting underway (I personally agree that it was supposed to start yesterday) is because we have the most underdeveloped city in the united states right now.

Dallas is ahead of us by miles. They have a light rail that goes from north to south, and descent freeways. No, they don't have as many people living there, especially after Katrina but, I agree. I think that it is time that the city pulled its image up by adding more for tourists, and better public transportation. Gas is not cheap.

I'm all for planning and hashing things out however, I think that you're never really going to know if something will work or not until you begin to actually see it happen. While we are not a city that takes kindly to change, we are also a city that likes progress and ejoys something new. It enables the city to grow.

[MidtownCoog]

we have the most underdeveloped city

Of course you meant to say downtown.

Name one thing Houston is lacking, other than a super-concentrated downtown.

[Montrose1100]

Of course you meant to say downtown.

Name one thing Houston is lacking, other than a super-concentrated downtown.

Mass Transit.

[MidtownCoog]

Mass Transit

I ride Metro three or four days a week, so it does exist.

[RedScare]

Mass Transit

I ride Metro three or four days a week, so it does exist.

Same here. Not once in the 4 years that I have riden METRO have I come across a dirty bus or train. Of course, I don't ride it in the fifth ward, either, so I can only comment on Heights, downtown, Midtown and Montrose.

[YakuzaIce]

Exactly, since when do busses not count, not to mention we are aggressively expanding the rail system. Well since red mentioned the cleanliness I guess I can account for most of the busses in SW Houston. I have taken it about two or three times a week to work for many years and I have never run across a dirty bus.

Edited November 5, 2005 by YakuzaIce

[cwrm4]

Name one thing Houston is lacking, other than a super-concentrated downtown.

A good city vibe.

I've read these forums for the last six months or so, and they're a great resource, though there is a lot of complaining about lack of mass transit and a relatively dull CBD and too few cool cafes and too many strip malls and so on. (I'm probably guilty on some of these counts).

Having lived in a number of major cities, including London, Paris, Singapore, Brussels, Philadelphia, Mexico City, and Perth, and visited pretty much every other major city in the world (some many, many times), I can say that from a perspective of shopping alternatives, intelligent citizens, corporations, theater, musuems, etc Houston ranks right up there.

However, what Houston doesn't have that these towns do is, for lack of a better word, a "city vibe". I just don't pick up a lot of the "energy" of a city when in Houston.

IMHO, You really can't pick up this energy of a city unless you are around other people continously. In a spread-out, car-culture city, you are generally alone or only with those you know most of the time, you just don't really get the beat of the city. When you take mass transit everywhere and spend your weekends walking and cabbing it from shops to a restaurant to the theater to local cafes (where you run into folks that live on your block), you do feel like a real part of the city, in a quasi-romantic kind of way. In a city like Houston (or Atlanta or Phoenix or even LA), you feel instead like you live in a giant suburbia.

When people complain about the lack of mass transit and too many strip malls, I think what they really want is to generate a good city vibe in Houston. Unfortunately, while we can improve mass transit somewhat, and creater denser inner loop development, and (please) create actual zoning laws, the layout of and space available in Houston will never make it a London or New York or anything close.

Which may be a good thing, because, if it did happen, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in a nice old house with a 2-car garage and a backyard and a fish pond that is 5 minutes from my downtown office.

[RedScare]

Great observation, cwrm4. Although, there are times when Houston has that vibe (usually during some event), it is not there on a daily basis. When the weather is nice, Main Street feels pretty good at lunchtime. But, on a regular basis, it isn't there yet.

Almost everyone who posts here is pushing for that vibe, though we may have different ways of expressing it, or different beliefs on how to achieve it. And, although many of us believe Houston has made great strides in the last 10 years, it was so far behind to begin with that it will take a while more to catch it.

Keep the faith. It will happen.

[dbigtex56]

When people complain about the lack of mass transit and too many strip malls, I think what they really want is to generate a good city vibe in Houston. Unfortunately, while we can improve mass transit somewhat, and creater denser inner loop development, and (please) create actual zoning laws, the layout of and space available in Houston will never make it a London or New York or anything close.

Excellent post.

I agree that the physical layout of Houston isn't conducive to walking. There's also a cultural bias which is pervasive in this city - that is, if you're walking, you're either up to no good or a L-O-S-E-R.

There are exceptions - if you're walking your dog, or if there are lots of other people walking, too (i.e., festivals), then it's OK. But so far as lighting out on ones own on foot, well... it's like being the first guy on the dance floor at a nightclub. Many Houstonians are simply too mortified to expose themselves that way.

[MiDTOWNeR]

Of course you meant to say downtown.

Name one thing Houston is lacking, other than a super-concentrated downtown.

Sophistication. Willingness to learn from it's mistakes.

[VelvetJ]

Great observation, cwrm4. Although, there are times when Houston has that vibe (usually during some event), it is not there on a daily basis. When the weather is nice, Main Street feels pretty good at lunchtime. But, on a regular basis, it isn't there yet.

Almost everyone who posts here is pushing for that vibe, though we may have different ways of expressing it, or different beliefs on how to achieve it. And, although many of us believe Houston has made great strides in the last 10 years, it was so far behind to begin with that it will take a while more to catch it.

Keep the faith. It will happen.

Well, well, well Redscare, it appears you at least understand from where my criticisms of Houston are coming. Your post hit the nail on the head. I can say I agree with you Redscare, as well as crwm4, and Midtowner. My issue however, and the source of many of my frustrations with Houston is too many of our citizens won't seem to have a desire, or even understand the reason the city should have a vibe at all. And from past experience, we will probably "get it" or get a understanding of it about 20 years from now. Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating, but I think you get my point.

As far as the Houston Pavillions, I still have hope and faith it will happen.

[RedScare]

Well, well, well Redscare, it appears you at least understand from where my criticisms of Houston are coming.

Sure I do. But, it's much more fun to disagree, isn't it?

Hang in there. I have high hopes for Pavillion, too...especially as a second downtown district, different from the club district to the north.

[eelimon]

A good city vibe.

I've read these forums for the last six months or so, and they're a great resource, though there is a lot of complaining about lack of mass transit and a relatively dull CBD and too few cool cafes and too many strip malls and so on. (I'm probably guilty on some of these counts).

Having lived in a number of major cities, including London, Paris, Singapore, Brussels, Philadelphia, Mexico City, and Perth, and visited pretty much every other major city in the world (some many, many times), I can say that from a perspective of shopping alternatives, intelligent citizens, corporations, theater, musuems, etc Houston ranks right up there.

However, what Houston doesn't have that these towns do is, for lack of a better word, a "city vibe". I just don't pick up a lot of the "energy" of a city when in Houston.

IMHO, You really can't pick up this energy of a city unless you are around other people continously. In a spread-out, car-culture city, you are generally alone or only with those you know most of the time, you just don't really get the beat of the city. When you take mass transit everywhere and spend your weekends walking and cabbing it from shops to a restaurant to the theater to local cafes (where you run into folks that live on your block), you do feel like a real part of the city, in a quasi-romantic kind of way. In a city like Houston (or Atlanta or Phoenix or even LA), you feel instead like you live in a giant suburbia.

When people complain about the lack of mass transit and too many strip malls, I think what they really want is to generate a good city vibe in Houston. Unfortunately, while we can improve mass transit somewhat, and creater denser inner loop development, and (please) create actual zoning laws, the layout of and space available in Houston will never make it a London or New York or anything close.

Which may be a good thing, because, if it did happen, I wouldn't be able to afford to live in a nice old house with a 2-car garage and a backyard and a fish pond that is 5 minutes from my downtown office.

I wish I could have said all that the same way I totally agree

It is sad to that Houston being such a large city that it is does not have something like this in it downtown. Heck even Horton Plaza in San Diego invokes this wonderful city vive

Here is a picture and great example of another city that is smaller then Houston and has a vibrant city central mall

it is a view from of the Riverwalk from the Rivercenter Mall in downtown San Antonio

Edited November 7, 2005 by eelimon

[WesternGulf]

I never did like that Horton Plaza. Totally kills the streetlife of a place if you ever visited. San Diego has enough retailers at street level that they can do away with that open air mall. From my understanding, yes Houston Pavilions will have some areas that are an open air mall concept, but I also think you can enter the stores from streetlevel, similar to Denver's.

[eelimon]

I never did like that Horton Plaza. Totally kills the streetlife of a place if you ever visited. San Diego has enough retailers at street level that they can do away with that open air mall. From my understanding, yes Houston Pavilions will have some areas that are an open air mall concept, but I also think you can enter the stores from streetlevel, similar to Denver's.

so far the renderings I have seen look like you can only do that from main st, but not on the the sides streets. that is very much like Horton plaza, but that is not my point at all. I am saying that smaller cities have already built projects like this. Houston is behind the bell curve. And no I don't want Houston to look like any other city or follow their example. I want Houston to have a strong vibrant city core

[WesternGulf]

Yuck. Really? I hope we were looking at different renderings. The renderings I saw, there were storefronts wrapped around the development. The Main Street Entrance was more pronounced because it is the grand entry with the huge bookstore at the corner of Main and Dallas.

As far as San Diego, it is possible to have smaller metros more urban than the larger ones. Unfortunately, Houston is an example. I consider Portland and Seattle better urban planned cities than LA and LA is one of the largest metros in the world. Hopefully Houston does not settle for this too much longer.

Edited November 7, 2005 by WesternGulf

[eelimon]

Yuck. Really? I hope we were looking at different renderings. The renderings I saw, there were storefronts wrapped around the development. The Main Street Entrance was more pronounced because it is the grand entry with the huge bookstore at the corner of Main and Dallas.

As far as San Diego, it is possible to have smaller metros more urban than the larger ones. Unfortunately, Houston is an example. I consider Portland and Seattle better urban planned cities than LA and LA is one of the largest metros in the world. Hopefully Houston does not settle for this too much longer.

I just think that it is embarrassing that San Antonio has a better downtown than Houston as far as lively vibe goes

Heck I have not mentioned Austins' downtown night life thank God they don't have a mall like this in the works

Edited November 7, 2005 by eelimon

[MidtownCoog]

LOL, Midtowner! It's out there if you want it.

Main Entry: so

[houstonsemipro]

y'all need to stop comparing Houston to all of these other cities. I'm sick and tired of looking at these big ass pictures of other cities. Pictures that's not about the Houston Pavilions don't need to be on this thread. Who cares what other cities have? Cause I don't. If you like it so much move there. Oh wow, San Deigo have this and that. What you want a cookie?

Houston is a totally different place to live.