GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[eelimon]

^^^^^

that is the way to show them whats what KinkaidAlum.

Every since that damn hurricane Katrina, and hurricane Rita. Houston has slowed down a lot. I guess they still have their minds on the Louisianan people, instead of the city.

But, how much you wanna bet the Pavilions get delayed until next year sometime? It never fails in Houston.

At one point in this tread it was said that the groundbreaking would be this fall or early part of 2006. I have a feeling that it may be next summer before we See any action on the three lots. that is if the developer does not back out yes the ball is in the hand of the people who are building this perhaps there are finalising financial baking or waiting to close all the little details. I for one cant wait!

Not only did the City quickly vote on a TIRZ for those 3 blocks (which is somewhat unprecedented), the county and city kicked in another $16M for the project. If it doesn't get off the ground, it's not the City's fault.

The one thing that is lacking downtown at this point is incentives for residential projects. I personally believe the City should give incentives to projects that include affordable units. Downtown needs density and the best way to do that is building moderately priced units. With the price per sq ft of the land, though, it's almost impossible without incentives.

I would hope that developers would wise up and start more mid rise projects priced similar to maiden priced homes out in the suburbs. not every one can afford to live a 1milion plus apartment for that matter a lot of people cant afford to to pay 300,000 for a condo in a mid rise.

Edited October 13, 2005 by eelimon

[eelimon]

Looks pretty crowded to me.

So Red did you paint that yourself? I don't recognize the painting much less the artist . WHO did it and what is it called?

Red what do you think is this project on track to get built or delayed indefinitely. I for one think that it is on track, but it may get delayed you are right there are a ton of factors that a company needs to consider before things of this size get built.

As Red said earlier houston's office market is at 20 vacancy. y'all cant forget a that a portion of the Pavilion's has offices designed into the project and perhaps this may have delayed project if they decided to make any changes

[RedScare]

So Red did you paint that yourself? I don't recognize the painting much less the artist . WHO did it and what is it called?

Red what do you think is this project on track to get built or delayed indefinitely. I for one think that it is on track, but it may get delayed you are right there are a ton of factors that a company needs to consider before things of this size get built.

As Red said earlier houston's office market is at 20 vacancy. y'all cant forget a that a portion of the Pavilion's has offices designed into the project and perhaps this may have delayed project if they decided to make any changes

I wish I had talent enough to paint that. Don't know who did it. I google imaged main street houston or something to find it.

As for whether it gets built or delayed, I can't say any more than everyone else. But, I CAN say that there has been a lot of movement on things such as city approvals and county approvals and TIRZ status, etc. That doesn't normally happen on a dead project. Also, the start date has always been fall 2005 or early 2006, so there hasn't even been a delay yet.

There have been 600 posts since this thread began, and I think we have just about said all that can be said. Houstonsemipro has gotten it into his head that things have slowed down after the blizzard of construction the last five years. That is understandable, since no one could keep that pace for long. I believe now he is gambling that he can look omnipotent by predicting the Pavillions' demise. He has a 50/50 chance of being right.

But, since he has no inside info, his is just a wild-eyed, pessimisstic guess. My personal opinion, based on the govertnment involvement, which was only last month, is that it does get built. It may not start this month, but it will go up.

PS - I thought it was interesting, that after saying downtown was dead, semipro said that there were crowds when the Astros play, the Rockets play, or sometimes when the Texans do something. I wonder why thouse crowds don't count. Isn't that why they built those stadiums downtown? Not to mention that the Astros and Rockets have at least 130 home games, over 1/3 of the year. Plus, on weekends, the sidewalks AND Main Street ARE full. Don't know where he got that from. Sunday through Tuesday is pretty dead, but who isn't dead on those nights. The theatre District also has a crowd throughout the year. I think semipro needs to get out of Pearland occasionally, because there is more activity than he thinks.

[bachanon]

speaking of games and large scale events downtown: wouldn't the pavilions project succeed (overwhelmingly) at keeping people in downtown longer? i hope the project remains viable for the investors. it will be (fingers crossed) a great addition to downtown.

[dbigtex56]

I believe now he is gambling that he can look omnipotent by predicting the Pavillions' demise.

Nah.

Omniscient, maybe...

[HOUCAJUN]

What are y'all talking about Houston being a slow city?

Sure Dallas has more light rail. But, did Dallas have to build a line without federal money? That was a HUGE feat for Houston.

AND, as for no projects right now, some of you need to get out more. In downtown there's a huge crane for a beautiful new cathedral and the new Civil Courthouse is nearing completion. There are several smaller projects underway too, like the bayou trail improvements, Nabisco conversion, and Christ Church Cathedral project. In the past five years, downtown has seen things like the Aquarium, Hobby Center, Hilton Americas, GRB expansion, 5 Houston Center, Reliant Energy Plaza, Calpine Center, Inn at the Ballpark, and 1500 Louisiana rise. We've also seen empty buildings converted like Commerce Towers, Humble Tower Apts, Capitol Lofts, Magnolia Hotel, Hotel Icon, and Alden Hotel to name a few. Then there's been the major street improvements, Cotswold project, Main Street Square, and a host of other public space improvements!

Head South out of downtown into Midtown and the entire neighborhood has transformed in five years. There are smaller projects happening all over that stretch into the western fringes of the Third Ward.

Where Midtown meets the Museum District, there's the Mosaic proposal for two towers and the Hotel ZaZa conversion underway. AND, don't forget the Asia House Museum coming.

The Medical Center is NUTS right now. Prairie View ATM College of Nursing is nearing completion. Texas Women's University's new bldg is coming close to topping out. The 430 foot tall Memorial Hermann Plaza is well underway as is the expansion of the actual hospital itself across the street. Then there's the 21 story Faculty Center Tower that is in the clearing stage and the Diagnostic Center is coming down right now to make way for the 22 story Outpatient Care Center at Methodist Hospital. And there are enough proposals out there to make your head spin.

Head to uptown and there are cranes and projects all over. Seven Riverway is up to about 10 floors. The Granduca Hotel in Uptown Park is rising. The Empire condos is well underway. Then there's the Hilton Garden Inn that is nearing completion and the Homewood Suites that has topped out. Just on the other side of the loop, the Briarglenn is rising.

Out west, Sysco's new corporate headquarters is rising as well as new additions to several hospital systems from Memorial City to Katy to SugarLand.

AND, don't forget the boom in Galveston and proposals for Clear Lake.

The Houston Pavilions WILL happpen. I think some of you just need to buy a CLUE as to how long it takes to get a project this large off of the ground. We are talking THREE FULL CITY BLOCKS people. It's not like putting up a new CVS Store!

i couldn't agree more.

[Gary]

Houston is the slowest damn city. Hell, look at San Antonio and Dallas, even Austin building alot of projects left and right. What Houston building? Strip centers here and there. Houston is 4th largest city, and acting like it's 50th.

So, don't tell me use a little intelligence replying to the thread. Houston have a hard time building more light rail, while Dallas already building more in their metros.

Hard time for people to cater to downtown houston. Why? cause bad parking, not enough entertainment. Hell, Austin got more entertainment in their downtown then us. Get real dude! Are you blind? This a slow ass city we're in. They trying their best to uplift downtown, but people still won't cater. People rather go to the Woodlands, Sugarland, Galveston, Kemah, Katy, etc. then go to downtown.

Downtown comes alive when something like Astros playing, going to the playoffs, maybe the World Series. The Rockets playing, and maybe those sorry ass Texans do something. You can not go downtown on a weekend and see alot of people. Right now you can , cause the Astros on the edge going to the World Series.

As Red said there are Astros games, Rockets games, and conventions galore. Speaking of conventions, I'm sure it won't hurt matters much when the Pavillions go up and those staying at the Hilton can walk right over to the area.

Also as far as DT being dead, I challenge semipro to spend a Saturday night on Main Street. Last time I was there, there must have been 15,000 people over the evening. And news flash.... There were no Astro or Rocket's games.

DT Houston Dead, Houston slow in developing? I think not.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Gary

[C2H]

i personally don't see what all the griping is about. Downtown and the rest of the city seems to be doing just fine. There are projects going up all around the city like the TMC development, Galleria/UT development, Downtown/Midtown, Town and Country, NASA/Clearlake, and other cities around Houston like Sugarland, Pearland, The Woodlands, Katy, and Galveston.

Public transportation could be improved alot but development in the city is trucking along quite smoothly. Anyone have any information if there's going to be anything like people movers or shuttle services with the Pavilion project like the free shuttle in Denver that goes along the 16th street Mall?

Edited October 13, 2005 by C2H

[2112]

You know what would be cool? An elevated monorail - just for downtown. Nothing big, that's what light-rail and commuter rail is for. But an elevated monorail that maybe goes all the way around downtown: from, say, the city hall area on Louisiana street, southbound to the energy and financial district, then turning eastward towards the (hopefully) Houston pavilions, then the Hilton/Toyota Center before turning north, passing between the parkshops/Houston Center and the GRB, then the ballpark, then turing west on Prairie through the historic district, then back south on Louisiana to the theater district/bayou place, before completing the circle at city hall. It would be a hell of alot more usefull than Seattle's monorail that only serves the 2 endpoints. Ours would tie in many venues together.

Just thinking of all the venues this would tie:

City Hall/Central Library

Financial and Energy District

Houston Pavilions

Hilton/Toyota Center

GRB Convention Center

Houston Center/Park Shopps

Minute Maid Park

Historic District/Market Square/UHD

Theater District/Bayou Place

...and maybe making 2 of the stations tie into the tunnels. Seven Stations should do it.

I like it. I like it alot.

Edited October 17, 2005 by 2112

[eelimon]

You know what would be cool? An elevated monorail - just for downtown. Nothing big, that's what light-rail and commuter rail is for. But an elevated monorail that maybe goes all the way around downtown: from, say, the city hall area on Louisiana street, southbound to the energy and financial district, then turning eastward towards the (hopefully) Houston pavilions, then the Hilton/Toyota Center before turning north, passing between the parkshops/Houston Center and the GRB, then the ballpark, then turing west on Prairie through the historic district, then back south on Louisiana to the theater district/bayou place, before completing the circle at city hall. It would be a hell of alot more usefull than Seattle's monorail that only serves the 2 endpoints. Ours would tie in many venues together.

Just thinking of all the venues this would tie:

City Hall/Central Library

Financial and Energy District

Houston Pavilions

Hilton/Toyota Center

GRB Convention Center

Houston Center/Park Shopps

Minute Maid Park

Historic District/Market Square/UHD

Theater District/Bayou Place

...and maybe making 2 of the stations tie into the tunnels. Seven Stations should do it.

I like it. I like it alot.

what would be cooler is if some would build and on demand system that works like elevators you could stand at a station and press the button and the tram would arrive at your location you press the button for the location you want and if no gets on you will go directly to your location. it would work in any location too small to have multiple rail lines but too spread out to be walkable like the energy corridor and the park ten galleria or any edge city location all could be joined by light rail an/or subway, or commuter rail

[nmainguy]

what would be cooler is if some would build and on demand system that works like elevators you could stand at a station and press the button and the tram would arrive at your location you press the button for the location you want and if no gets on you will go directly to your location. it would work in any location too small to have multiple rail lines but too spread out to be walkable like the energy corridor and the park ten galleria or any edge city location all could be joined by light rail an/or subway, or commuter rail

..and what would be the coolest! My own chauffeur driven limo with a fully stocked bar to haul my ass anywhere I tell him to.

[tierwestah]

OK SILENCE!!! That's enough. This thread should be used for updates for the existing Houston Pavilions Project. Not some bogus fantasy island type stuff. Yall are gonna make me CRAAZZY!!! Especially you C2H, you're the one who started all this off topic ____ goin'.

[hokieone]

I am of course perpetuating the problem, but I do agree on the topic thing. Not to call anyone out, but it is annoying when you see this specific topic pop up again on the most recently discussed, only to see things that have nothing at all to do with updates. Things such as "hey new page" or "what we need in downtown is a new rail system" have very little relevance to this.

Just one man's opinion, that will in turn be sure to receive responses and keep the vicious cycle going.

[C2H]

Yall are gonna make me CRAAZZY!!! Especially you C2H, you're the one who started all this off topic ____ goin'.

dang, some people can't find good help these days!!!

Edited October 18, 2005 by C2H

[eelimon]

OK SILENCE!!! That's enough. This thread should be used for updates for the existing Houston Pavilions Project. Not some bogus fantasy island type stuff. Yall are gonna make me CRAAZZY!!! Especially you C2H, you're the one who started all this off topic ____ goin'.

geeeezzzzzus!

[robot]

virgin is more exclusive and when i lived in san fran, it was a million steps up from the suburban mall store fye. may i ask which virgin did you visit? fye can be found anywhere, mostly in the suburbs. virgin is cool because they never fail to locate in an urban location, for the most part, and the designs of the store give true character to the streets at groundlevel. trust me, you wouldn't be disappointed. the ones in miami and chicago are pretty cool too.

i agree. i too lived in san francisco pre-ipod/digital internet music days and loved walking three blocks from my apartment to the virgin megastore and listening to music, reading/perusing books, and having a bite in the virgin cafe. the new nordstrom here pales in comparison to the west coast nordstroms, so i can only assume that a downtown houston virgin megastore (if ever realized) may be a middle america/second-tier version as well. but i suppose we could keep our fingers crossed.

[MidtownCoog]

Soundwaves is better than Virgin. I'd like to see Soundwaves in downtown.

Even the Virgin on Regent Street is a Top 40 shell of what it could have been.

I was there last month, and it's on the verge of "mall"-dom.

[CincoRanch-HoustonResident]

We should have a Niketown there. Denver Pavilions has one.

Also, when will Houston get its first Bloomingdales?

Edited October 29, 2005 by CincoRanch-HoustonResident

[editor]

I agree with 'Coog. I was at the Virgin flagship store in London last month and it was pretty lame. The one in Chicago is pretty lame, too. From what I remember, the New Orleans one wasn't all that great, either.

I'm not terribly impressed by any of the big chain music stores these days. They seem to be caught between two worlds and not sure how to relate to either the kids or to people with money to spend.

[JGraspo]

I agree with 'Coog. I was at the Virgin flagship store in London last month and it was pretty lame. The one in Chicago is pretty lame, too. From what I remember, the New Orleans one wasn't all that great, either.

I'm not terribly impressed by any of the big chain music stores these days. They seem to be caught between two worlds and not sure how to relate to either the kids or to people with money to spend.

Yeah, I agree.

I stopped by th Virgin Mega store in London just for those of y'all that keep on brining it up.

It really wasn't all that. If the pavillions gets one cool, if not no big loss

Edited October 29, 2005 by JGraspo

[YakuzaIce]

Yeah that is what I was thinking if we have it that is good, but if the virgin store falls through there are other options.

EDIT:Welcome to page 12. Also when do they update the number of views? It has been 21,841 for awhile now.

Edited October 30, 2005 by YakuzaIce

[NewMND]

I don't even know how successful a new Virgin Megastore would be, I'm sure it would attract people who would come to browse and listen to music, but how many of those people would then buy product, especially now that iTunes is taking over everything. And even for people who actually like to have the CD instead of downloading, I'm sure BestBuy and Target are still cheaper options than Virgin.

[kjb434]

Virgin is actually fairly competitive. The only place that would probably sell cheaper I think would be Wal-Mart. Of course Wal-Mart's selection is little thinner.

When I lived in Louisiana, I used hold off on buying CD's until I went to New Orleans to go to the Virgin store since it was cheaper.

[MidtownCoog]

What about Tower Records?

The New Orleans and San Fransicco stores were great back in the day.

Wonder if they could make it in Houston?

[kjb434]

Tower was pretty good too.

I've been to the new orelaans one several times. The Virgin Store just had a better location in the Jax Building.

Put it this way, people who buy CD's at BestBuy and Wherehouse have been missing out.

Soundwaves is even a little pricier and so it FYE.

[texasboy]

I think Virgin is a key tenant to Pavilion projects all over the world, of course it would be us to try to water down something. I cannot see how Soundwaves would be better for this project. People can go to Soundwaves all over the city. Do people on here realize that it is imperative to place retailers that are not found all over the metro, so people can have a reason to go to downtown? And before people throw out examples, Virgin is no Hard Rock Cafe. Soundwaves? LOL. Great, it is a local retailer, but that is like a million steps down. When I lived in Houston, I knew too many people that were longing for a Virgin Mega Store and since such stores usually make it to the Galleria, one in downtown almost sounds to good to be true.

Edited November 1, 2005 by texasboy

[eelimon]

I think Virgin is a key tenant to Pavilion projects all over the world, of course it would be us to try to water down something. I cannot see how Soundwaves would be better for this project. People can go to Soundwaves all over the city. Do people on here realize that it is imperative to place retailers that are not found all over the metro, so people can have a reason to go to downtown? And before people throw out examples, Virgin is no Hard Rock Cafe. Soundwaves? LOL. Great, it is a local retailer, but that is like a million steps down. When I lived in Houston, I knew too many people that were longing for a Virgin Mega Store and since such stores usually make it to the Galleria, one in downtown almost sounds to good to be true.

good point texasboy, but I think their grips are rooted in the fact that Virgin is mostly a top 40 record store.

[this current discussion reminds me of the movie High Fidelity with John Cusack and Jack Black. the characters in it were record sales people who were avid music listeners and were happy being the pompous elitist who held the gate key to modern music history.]

However, if a Virgin record store cant attract repeat business then what good is it that it is at this development. I mean I have been to one of these stores and always thought cool I could find any thing here. But after my initial visit I did see a reason to go back.

Virgin Record Stores may want to revamp their format and this a topic that could get started altogether on a different thread. I have a few Ideas but will keep them to myself at this time.

[MidtownCoog]

Virgin is great for the Top 40 crowd who don't care about their music.

I am not talking about the Soundwaves in the burbs, but something like the flagship store on Montrose.

Like I said, the one in London is very lame.

And if the one in London is lame, how good do you think a Houston location would be?

[texasboy]

Virgin is great for the Top 40 crowd who don't care about their music.

I am not talking about the Soundwaves in the burbs, but something like the flagship store on Montrose.

Like I said, the one in London is very lame.

And if the one in London is lame, how good do you think a Houston location would be?

I would love to see a real flagship Soundwaves one day where possibly this local retailer could go nationally. Sort of like Starbucks in Seattle. Well not really, but you get the point. Anyway, putting Soundwaves in this development is so unrealistic though. These are huge developers out of California. Do you really think they are just going to scout out any kind of retailers to place in this project? I seriously doubt that. It's just wishful thinking. When I said Virgin Mega Store is a key tenant to Pavilions Projects around the world, I meant it is a retailer that almost comes standard with these pavilion projects. Do you really think the developer is going to do something special just for Houston and sway away from their key tenants just to put in a Soundwaves. Yeah right. Personally, in this situation, I hope they do not.

As for as the London store, that is not the only location. Virgin Mega Store is from London and they have more than one location in the city. BTW, how many Virgin Mega Stores have you been in throughout this country. One would know, that they are not all alike. The Virgin in Phoenix is pure garbage because it is located in a mall. Visit the Virgin in Chicago, Orlando, New Orleans, or San Francisco, it makes it seem like the developers did not even try with the location in Phoenix. Hopefully an urban designed Virgin store could finally make it to Houston.

[MidtownCoog]

Not really talking about the physical store itself or the location, just the terrible product offering.

The Regent Street store is wondeful, and the location is second to none. Shopping is everywhere.

But the product offering still stinks.

So if Houston gets a Virgin Store and it sells typical Sam Goody fare, how long can it last?

Edited November 1, 2005 by MidtownCoog