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Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street


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Tower was pretty good too.

I've been to the new orelaans one several times. The Virgin Store just had a better location in the Jax Building.

Put it this way, people who buy CD's at BestBuy and Wherehouse have been missing out.

Soundwaves is even a little pricier and so it FYE.

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I think Virgin is a key tenant to Pavilion projects all over the world, of course it would be us to try to water down something. I cannot see how Soundwaves would be better for this project. People can go to Soundwaves all over the city. Do people on here realize that it is imperative to place retailers that are not found all over the metro, so people can have a reason to go to downtown? And before people throw out examples, Virgin is no Hard Rock Cafe. Soundwaves? LOL. Great, it is a local retailer, but that is like a million steps down. When I lived in Houston, I knew too many people that were longing for a Virgin Mega Store and since such stores usually make it to the Galleria, one in downtown almost sounds to good to be true.

Edited by texasboy
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I think Virgin is a key tenant to Pavilion projects all over the world, of course it would be us to try to water down something. I cannot see how Soundwaves would be better for this project. People can go to Soundwaves all over the city. Do people on here realize that it is imperative to place retailers that are not found all over the metro, so people can have a reason to go to downtown? And before people throw out examples, Virgin is no Hard Rock Cafe. Soundwaves? LOL. Great, it is a local retailer, but that is like a million steps down. When I lived in Houston, I knew too many people that were longing for a Virgin Mega Store and since such stores usually make it to the Galleria, one in downtown almost sounds to good to be true.

good point texasboy, but I think their grips are rooted in the fact that Virgin is mostly a top 40 record store.

[this current discussion reminds me of the movie High Fidelity with John Cusack and Jack Black. the characters in it were record sales people who were avid music listeners and were happy being the pompous elitist who held the gate key to modern music history.]

However, if a Virgin record store cant attract repeat business then what good is it that it is at this development. I mean I have been to one of these stores and always thought cool I could find any thing here. But after my initial visit I did see a reason to go back.

Virgin Record Stores may want to revamp their format and this a topic that could get started altogether on a different thread. I have a few Ideas but will keep them to myself at this time.

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Virgin is great for the Top 40 crowd who don't care about their music.

I am not talking about the Soundwaves in the burbs, but something like the flagship store on Montrose.

Like I said, the one in London is very lame.

And if the one in London is lame, how good do you think a Houston location would be?

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Virgin is great for the Top 40 crowd who don't care about their music.

I am not talking about the Soundwaves in the burbs, but something like the flagship store on Montrose.

Like I said, the one in London is very lame.

And if the one in London is lame, how good do you think a Houston location would be?

I would love to see a real flagship Soundwaves one day where possibly this local retailer could go nationally. Sort of like Starbucks in Seattle. Well not really, but you get the point. Anyway, putting Soundwaves in this development is so unrealistic though. These are huge developers out of California. Do you really think they are just going to scout out any kind of retailers to place in this project? I seriously doubt that. It's just wishful thinking. When I said Virgin Mega Store is a key tenant to Pavilions Projects around the world, I meant it is a retailer that almost comes standard with these pavilion projects. Do you really think the developer is going to do something special just for Houston and sway away from their key tenants just to put in a Soundwaves. Yeah right. Personally, in this situation, I hope they do not.

As for as the London store, that is not the only location. Virgin Mega Store is from London and they have more than one location in the city. BTW, how many Virgin Mega Stores have you been in throughout this country. One would know, that they are not all alike. The Virgin in Phoenix is pure garbage because it is located in a mall. Visit the Virgin in Chicago, Orlando, New Orleans, or San Francisco, it makes it seem like the developers did not even try with the location in Phoenix. Hopefully an urban designed Virgin store could finally make it to Houston.

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Not really talking about the physical store itself or the location, just the terrible product offering.

The Regent Street store is wondeful, and the location is second to none. Shopping is everywhere.

But the product offering still stinks.

So if Houston gets a Virgin Store and it sells typical Sam Goody fare, how long can it last?

Edited by MidtownCoog
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I think you could put a soundwaves in this development and still have a Virgin megastore. The Virgin megastore will sooth all your top 40 teeny-boppers, while soundwaves could focus on their vinyls, indies, skate/surf gear. The Virgin megastore would be your tourist attraction, while soundwaves is the hometown shop - downtown.

Oh, I don't buy cd's - but kjb434: What did you mean by people who buy cd's at Bestbuy or Warehouse music have been missing out?

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My experience with Virgin (in New Orleans) was three large floors of a large selection of music. I found artists i could only read about on the internet and hope to download a song from them.

There are a lot of music choices in Europe and the rest of the world that you typically don't have access too that I was able to get too.

In todays world with Amazon and other internet retailers, you can get almost everything. This is why I think the music store concept in general is not too strong unless it can offer more than just CD's.

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My experience with Virgin (in New Orleans) was three large floors of a large selection of music. I found artists i could only read about on the internet and hope to download a song from them.

There are a lot of music choices in Europe and the rest of the world that you typically don't have access too that I was able to get too.

Exactly and the prices are not that way off from the sheer variety of stuff that they offer. I found the one in NYC jacking up their prices a little bit though. When I lived in SF, the prices were not that high because of the competition they had in the city with local retailers. Maybe Virgin is not appreciated because of how big they have become, but they offer what any quality music store has, from R&B, hip-hop, punk, country, pop, etc, and then some.

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Not really talking about the physical store itself or the location, just the terrible product offering.

The Regent Street store is wondeful, and the location is second to none. Shopping is everywhere.

But the product offering still stinks.

So if Houston gets a Virgin Store and it sells typical Sam Goody fare, how long can it last?

Good point, Coog-and something I've been wondering: When and where has a Virgin outlet gone under?

They seem to have some staying power-at least in the cities I've traveled to off and on. Seems like the Pavillion developers are going for top-tier retailers that they can count on having some staying power.

Anyone?

B)

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So what's with this town - lots of great ideas but never any actions - just what do the clients pay their architects to do in the first place?

I've been back in town for the better part of two years and all I've seen is a circle jerk - lots of start and stops - but nothing in the way of a major project ever get past the design stage!http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/style_images/1/folder_rte_images/textcolor.gif

Are the local/regional developers that short of funds or what?

I mean there busy work and then their busy work!

What ever happen to the cutting edge style - that was once found here in Houston - did we all just get old or what?

I mean there busy work and then their busy work!

ric

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Here we go again.

Let the pessimism rain.

There are no signs that this project is faltering. The final peice the developer needed to move forward went off without a hitch: the city approved the TIRZ changes for the project.

Also, Houston has plenty of project starts within the last two years. Why wouldn't this project move forward? Just saying so doesn't really mean anything. Do you have evidence that the project is having problems? (probably should ask houston-development) Everything I've seen so far seems this project is on tract.

I guess I should go and puch a hole in one of those parking lots, take a picture, and post it on here as the construction starting. While that make some of the pessimist happy?

thefireguy, most large scale projects will pay architects to perform a general design before they have any assurance the project will move forward. What the architects produce is used to help sell the project to investors and financiers.

Also, nmainguy: I think you have a good point. I think the Pavilons projects have picked retailers that have staying power. Virgin record stores generally have an appeal to them and having only one in the city will only help them stay open.

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Do people on here realize that it is imperative to place retailers that are not found all over the metro, so people can have a reason to go to downtown?

I think this is critical. There has to be an added incentive to go to the Pavillions DT, particularly on weekends. Not only are we talking about eateries but we're talking about consumable goods, too. Having unique stores that offer at least decent merchandising is important. It's why the Galleria and Uptown are distinguishable from, say, Meyerland or Memorial City.

Even Gulfgate has a bit of a niche in their area of town. Where's their nearest realistic competitor?

Meanwhile, you have an opportunity to appeal to the new jack urbanists in Midtown, near North, West End and the East End as well as to the young, hip hop crew found on nearby campuses such as UH and TSU (Rice has its own niche in The Village, but you get my point).

Also, I enjoy reading the unfounded pessimism that rears its ugly head on this site. No perspective at all, which on the one hand is ridiculous, but on the other hand shows passion at least. It's better than the person who is indifferent and has nothing to offfer.

Edited by The Great Hizzy!
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I HAVE TO SAY that i somewhat share Houstonsemipro's frustration regarding this project. When i look at all the multiple projects that are taking place in Dallas, i conclude and feel that Houston's a little on the slow side.

Dallas mentioned the Victory Development and wide plasma screens not even a year ago. They've already begun to move some dirt showing progress and signs that the projects are moving along. It's frustrating. Dallas appears to be the most booming city in the state right now. Why can't we at least start seeing some dirt flying or being moved for the Pavilions? I'm mad as hell!

Edited by tierwestah
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I HAVE TO SAY that i somewhat share Houstonsemipro's frustration regarding this project. When i look at all the multiple projects that are taking place in Dallas, i conclude and feel that Houston's a little on the slow side.

Dallas mentioned the Victory Development and wide plasma screens not even a year ago. They've already begun to move some dirt showing progress and signs that the projects are moving along. It's frustrating. Dallas appears to be the most booming city in the state right now. Why can't we at least start seeing some dirt flying or being moved for the Pavilions? I'm mad as hell!

Wrong. I have a friend in Dallas that has been waiting on Victory for years. Try the 90's. Maybe a Dallasite on this forum could tell you.

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also, remember, that living in houston and watching the papers and websites daily, it can feel like a project is taking forever. and, if you only periodically check on the developments in another city it can feel like many things are happening quickly. whereas, if you lived in the other city you may feel the same as you do about the progress of things here. just a thought.

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WEINER'S is a chain of discount stores I've seen them in the south a lot. I guess they haven't made it to Texas. They're nothing too impressive.

Ummmm, how long you been here KJB ? :blink:;)

You can't be too hard on Virgin, I suppose.

Looks what they have to work with:

What? Was Ashlee Simpson already booked? What a poop-fest.

They couldn't find a cd player that wouldn't skip during the playback for Ashlee, so she is out. <_<

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Maybe becase they are using an existing structure!

There are no existing strutures.

B)

QUOTE(kjb434 @ Friday, July 1st, 2005 @ 9:32am)

WEINER'S is a chain of discount stores I've seen them in the south a lot. I guess they haven't made it to Texas. They're nothing too impressive.

Weiner's was a Houston based, cheap-ass, trailer trash clothing outlet that died a merciful death about 5-10 years [?] ago.

B)

Edited by nmainguy
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So I am confused.

What's going in the old Sakowitz location? I thought this was all one structure.

Sakowitz is supposed to be getting an American Apparel store on the ground floor.

Houston Pavilions is going to be next door to Sakowitz on the 3 empty blocks bounded by Main, Dallas, Caroline and Polk.

B)

Edited by nmainguy
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Weiner's was a Houston based, cheap-ass, trailer trash clothing outlet that died a merciful death about 5-10 years [?] ago.

Hey, some of us didn't have a choice! Weiner's served a market, and my family was definitely part of that market. Not all of us could wear Izod and Polo...somebody had to represent with the fake Pumas!

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Hey, some of us didn't have a choice! Weiner's served a market, and my family was definitely part of that market. Not all of us could wear Izod and Polo...somebody had to represent with the fake Pumas!

regarding Winners.

I always liked getting lost between the clothing racks. I think even back then I was too embarrassed to be seen at such a low cost store even though it was all my family could afford at the time

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Sakowitz is supposed to be getting an American Apparel store on the ground floor.

Houston Pavilions is going to be next door to Sakowitz on the 3 empty blocks bounded by Main, Dallas, Caroline and Polk.

B)

Also Habita is opening, which is claimed to be a new chic industrial style retail concept. It is suppose to open February 2006.

Also nmainguy, why is B) your favorite smiley?

Edited by texasboy
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Also Habita is opening, which is claimed to be a new chic industrial style retail concept. It is suppose to open February 2006.

for it to be opening in Feb 06, it sure as hell ain't showing any good signs of progress! Those same damn posters are on the Window of that building that's been there for months, and if you look behind the posters, it's still a parking garage on the inside.

What the hell does CHIC mean anyway? I never understood that!

Edited by tierwestah
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Exactly and the prices are not that way off from the sheer variety of stuff that they offer. I found the one in NYC jacking up their prices a little bit though.

I think higher than average prices in NYC is not a sign that Virgin is uncompetitive in their pricing. I think that's more a case of the high cost of just opening and maintaining a store in NYC. Everything costs more there. I imagine if you went in Best Buy in NYC you'd see similar prices.

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Virgin does not have to be competative in their pricing, they're virgin.

Furthermore, the reason everyone is up in arms about this project getting underway (I personally agree that it was supposed to start yesterday) is because we have the most underdeveloped city in the united states right now.

Dallas is ahead of us by miles. They have a light rail that goes from north to south, and descent freeways. No, they don't have as many people living there, especially after Katrina but, I agree. I think that it is time that the city pulled its image up by adding more for tourists, and better public transportation. Gas is not cheap.

I'm all for planning and hashing things out however, I think that you're never really going to know if something will work or not until you begin to actually see it happen. While we are not a city that takes kindly to change, we are also a city that likes progress and ejoys something new. It enables the city to grow.

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  • The title was changed to Houston Pavilions, Now Green Street

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