GreenStreet: Mixed-Use Development At 1201 Fannin St.

[HoustonianInColorado]

I think one thing that helps keep the 16th St. Mall active is the free RTD busses that shuttle people from one end to the other, connecting to the RTD stations at Market St. and near the Capitol. For those not familiar with it, 16th St. is closed to all vehicles except the busses, which run in lanes against the curb, with pedestrians on the sidewalks and in the middle of the street.

[kjb434]

I thing one of the positive think about he houston concept is that the main street corridor is much more compact. To the north of the proposed Pavilons on Main Street is the proposed Sackowiz rennovation. Stowers is nearby also. I think our main street could become similar to the 16th street mall. We already have the light rail in place and the locations for the new development.

Who ever found though better renderings better keep posting updates too.

[eelimon]

Build it Already!

I wanna shop!

Will there be a Hooters too? How about an Outback? Will there be a Mega Marshalls?

How about a Barneys Houston ala Barneys New York?

I am telling y'all I am ready to go shopping there I can't wait.

I could go for a good steak at Outback, and not have to drive all the way to the southwest corner of the 610.

[RedScare]

"Will there be a Hooters too? How about an Outback?"

You're joking, right?

[kjb434]

Yeah,

I don't want typical suburban shops and restraunts in the place. I'll like to see some stores and restraunts we don't have already.

[2112]

Yeah,

I don't want typical suburban shops and restraunts in the place.

[The Great Hizzy!]

There's a Marshall's in DT Miami. And a Hooters.

Hell, they even have a Walgreens AND a CVS.

[RedScare]

Wouldn't distinguishing downtown from all the other places by having different non-chain restaurants ENCOURAGE people to come downtown?

Having some chain reataurants won't HURT downtown, but neither will they help it.

FWIW, Outback doesn't bother me anyway. It's Hooters that I can't stand, with it's 'tittie bar lite' concept. Either be a topless joint or don't. It's just what I expect from Florida.

For some comical corporate softshoe, read "About Hooters" from their website.

http://www.hooters.com/company/about_hooters/

[kjb434]

To me, having the same restraunt in downtown and in burbs means why go downtown?

I've been to the aquarium restraunt once. The presentation of the food and everything is nice, but it's just Landrys and their chain of restraunts packaged differently.

The amusement park addition and views from the restraunt are great for bringing in families to downtown, but there are many other restraunts in downtown and nearby that I'd would rather visit.

I like outback and many of the chain restraunts, and I do expect some of them to appear in downtown, but having new restraunts available makes the place more memorable.

[The Great Hizzy!]

The problem is that it's difficult to bring in mom-N-pop authentic retail to places with relatively high rents. The average "individual" doesn't have that kind of jack and needs assurances that their investment will see a return. Opening a new retail unit DT, even with its impressive strides over the last seven eyars, is risky for an individual, because they don't have the longterm financial backing to help them through the rough couple of years they need to establish a competent and reliable customer base. I don't think you should reasonably expect a significant growth in smaller non-chain type places DT until the residential population is above 10,000 within the downtown "loop". The larger residential population would be more dedicated to these establishments, especially more so than your casual visitor to DT.

As it stands, if you want people who don't live DT to find DT "comfortable", yes, you want to have some uniqueness in place but you want some of that old stand-by: the familiar. Uptown isn't wanting for activity, and it has a mix of chain and non-chain establishments.

It also has a higher inventory of residential within a 2 mile radius.

Downtown Houston needs the same in order to remain viable, and, more importantly, to become the urban "hot spot" that urbanists want it to be.

[eelimon]

BEGIN rant

If the architecture embraces street level retail - aka store fronts and sidewalks and patio tables up to the street - then what is wrong with having some of the same kind of stores that you see in the

[Kirzania]

But I really Love Barneys New York I realy want y'all to talk about that. I wish someone from that company is on here and they could read that we all want them to open a store in  downtown houston and NOT THE GALLERIA!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haverty's! Ack, guess not. Sears! ... Oh, wait. No... Foley's! Oh, wait. Crap!

[eelimon]

The problem is that it's difficult to bring in mom-N-pop authentic retail to places with relatively high rents. The average "individual" doesn't have that kind of jack and needs assurances that their investment will see a return. Opening a new retail unit DT, even with its impressive strides over the last seven eyars, is risky for an individual, because they don't have the longterm financial backing to help them through the rough couple of years they need to establish a competent and reliable customer base. I don't think you should reasonably expect a significant growth in smaller non-chain type places DT until the residential population is above 10,000 within the downtown "loop". The larger residential population would be more dedicated to these establishments, especially more so than your casual visitor to DT.

As it stands, if you want people who don't live DT to find DT "comfortable", yes, you want to have some uniqueness in place but you want some of that old stand-by: the familiar. Uptown isn't wanting for activity, and it has a mix of chain and non-chain establishments.

It also has a higher inventory of residential within a 2 mile radius.

Downtown Houston needs the same in order to remain viable, and, more importantly, to become the urban "hot spot" that urbanists want it to be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YEah! That is why the plan for the next 25 yrs calls for an influx of 20,000 residents in the downtown "loop" I hope you meant the one made up by the I-10 + I-45 +I-69 highway interchanges.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Yeah, I did. That's why I put "loop" in parenthesis. I forget what Midtown's projection population is supposed to be by 2025. I don't even know what it is today, but I'd guess probably in the area of about 10,000 - 12,000.

[kjb434]

When was talking about new restraunts, i really wan't going after to have the mom-n-pop places. I was think chain restraunts we don't have. They're a lot of them. Also, there are restraunts that have like two are three location in the US at only a major city. Having some of these kind of places would be nice.

[Subdude]

The problem is that it's difficult to bring in mom-N-pop authentic retail to places with relatively high rents. The average "individual" doesn't have that kind of jack and needs assurances that their investment will see a return. Opening a new retail unit DT, even with its impressive strides over the last seven eyars, is risky for an individual, because they don't have the longterm financial backing to help them through the rough couple of years they need to establish a competent and reliable customer base. I don't think you should reasonably expect a significant growth in smaller non-chain type places DT until the residential population is above 10,000 within the downtown "loop". The larger residential population would be more dedicated to these establishments, especially more so than your casual visitor to DT.

As it stands, if you want people who don't live DT to find DT "comfortable", yes, you want to have some uniqueness in place but you want some of that old stand-by: the familiar. Uptown isn't wanting for activity, and it has a mix of chain and non-chain establishments.

It also has a higher inventory of residential within a 2 mile radius.

Downtown Houston needs the same in order to remain viable, and, more importantly, to become the urban "hot spot" that urbanists want it to be.

True enough. I think a lot of people are somwhat frightened of downtown, and for this project to succeed it is going to have to be not be too intimidating and risk scaring people off. I would start off with a high concentration of familiar name retailers and restaurants to draw people in. Maybe over time the mix can be changed.

[brijonmang]

ok i know its already been stated in this thread but i cant find it...when is ground breaking supposed to begin? this year?

[NewMND]

Personally, I think a downtown Hooters would make a killing during lunchtime. But I would also like to see some of the smaller chains down there, like Kahunaville, The Bamboo Club, etc. And I think a lot of the retail that should be down there is the hip trendy type stuff, while Uptown gets the high-end upscale stuff. As for The Pavillions, I'm picturing the type of stores and restaurants you would find at a Downtown Disney, kinda touristy.

[RedScare]

You're probably right, and if so, that's fine. Downtown is big enough to handle it. Besides, it would allow people like me and MidtownCoog to make fun of the "tourists".

[houstonsemipro]

Here are some images of Houston Pavilions:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LargeTEXAS. What website you found these pictures?

[eelimon]

You're probably right, and if so, that's fine.  Downtown is big enough to handle it.  Besides, it would allow people like me and MidtownCoog to make fun of the "tourists". 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can include me on make fun of the "tourists."

I assume you are taking about suburbanites?

[RedScare]

amongst others.

[ssullivan]

Although I can deal with some chain stores/restaurants downtown, and realize they probably need to be there to help with the "comfort" factor for those who don't venture downtown often, I don't want to see it be only that. A mix of the national chains, plus some more exclusive places (smaller chains that might only have one or two locations in a big city and are only in a handful of really large cities), plus local-only type places.

Outback I can deal with. Let's leave Hooter's out of it... we have enough of those joints already. Besides, the few times I've been, the food has always been crap and the service even crapier. On my last trip there a few years ago with some friends from work I had to ask the waitress four times for a clean fork because the original one had food caked on it that hadn't come off in the dishwasher. Rather than bring me a fork she just continued to flirt and flash her goods in my face. I finally had to tell her I was gay, had no interest in anything she had to offer but a clean fork and I was tired of asking for one. After that I had a fork and even lousier service the rest of the meal.

[eelimon]

Let's leave Hooter's out of it... we have enough of those joints already. Besides, the few times I've been, the food has always been crap and the service even crapier. On my last trip there a few years ago with some friends from work I had to ask the waitress four times for a clean fork because the original one had food caked on it that hadn't come off in the dishwasher. Rather than bring me a fork she just continued to flirt and flash her goods in my face. I finally had to tell her I was gay, had no interest in anything she had to offer but a clean fork and I was tired of asking for one. After that I had a fork and even lousier service the rest of the meal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I only suggested Hooter earlier in this thread b/c San Diego has one near there downtown mall and in the Gas Lamp District. It seems to bring in good business. However it does suck when it comes to the food and service. But most business types go for that soft porn scene at lunchtime I am talking about straight business men Ya

[eelimon]

So instead of a Hooters, how about a gay bar downtown? One that has some cross-over appeal, not just a meat market.

I'm thinking perhaps a piano/sing-along place, like the late, great Briar Patch, or perhaps a show bar. Although 'drag' really isn't my thing, a lot of people (both gay and straight) seem to enjoy it.  Not everyone is comfortable seeking out drag shows in the backstreets of Montrose, but I bet it would go over well in a more visible location.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don

[brijonmang]

yesss view number 10,000!

[largeTEXAS]

Look, to be successful downtown is going to have to have it all. We can't start limiting what nationals want to open there (even if they are pseudo strip clubs). We need a mix of nationals and locals to make the place a truly urban, mixed-use center. The more critical mass will mean more cool mom-and-pop stores will be able to open. Personally, I think it's inevitable that Main Street will turn into the national chain corridor. That's fine - it will allow other streets to define themselves as hip and "off-Main."

[RedScare]

I don't want to give the impression that I alone know what stores should or should not go into downtown. I was merely giving my opinion on that chain and too many chain stores in general. Downtown is distinctive, and it should stay that way. Some chain stores won't hurt it. In fact, the diverse mix that most of us want for downtown, almost by design, demands some chains.

People watching is much more enjoyable with a diverse mix. The feeling of being somewhere exciting and exotic comes from that same mix. So, if a Hooters crowd of soft porn afficionados adds to the mix of upscale restaurants, theatre, symphony, hip-hop clubs, latino bars and Warren's, then all the better. In fact, to get a young demographic to come to downtown, some lower cost fare needs to be on the menu.

Another thread showed photos of the Woodlands Town Center. It was a nice, sterile environment, full of chain stores, perfect for the 92.26% white suburban demographic that they serve. Downtown is not serving that demographic. Downtown is serving the urban, adventurous crowd, the business crowd, the sports and concert crowd, the tourist who is looking to be entertained in a manner different than what they can get at home.

Houston Pavillions can accelerate the serving of these demographics. If it includes a Hooters, it won't kill it...but, I still reserve the right to snicker at it.

[tierwestah]

Redscare, no disrespect but I don't agree with some of your small -minded view points on how you think downtown should be. I think downtown needs some hot, well-known gathering spots. While some might not think so, HOOTERS is not the worst idea. I think in order for downtown to become more of a place where residents and visitors actually want to come, it needs more than just Mom and Pop stores.

People feel more comfortable shopping and eating at familiar places. I mean look at downtown New Orleans? It has some popular venues right inside of downtown on every block while the French Quarter has some more of the unique stores. With downtown Houston being the largest in the south, i feel downtown Houston could definitely step it up.

Just look at how downtown and uptown Houston rival eachother? Why does everything new and hip go uptown? Why does uptown have a residential population of 40,000 as opposed to downtown's population of 3,000?

I won't speak for anyone else but i get a better sense of action and see shops, hotels and restaurants that I am more familiar with in uptown. It's the reputable places people are attracted to at first, then they begin to explore the uniqueness portions of the city. That definitely helps with marketing the area as well.

I don't want to see Houston continue down the same track its been because in my opinion, downtown is mainly a tourist draw for the homeless right now.

[RedScare]

Not being impressed with either the concept or the food of Hooters makes me small-minded? That may be a first. You should inquire about a marketing position with Hooters. They could use some people that think Hooters is at the forefront of innovative dining.

You probably should reread my post. Mine was the one that said downtown deserved better than tired mall stores. I didn't say there should be NO chain stores. I'm the one that thinks downtown should appeal to the adventurous, the one who wants something unique and exciting. You tell me people want to feel comfortable at familiar places, then you tell me to look at downtown New Orleans? I say, yeah, look at New Orleans, one of the most unique cities in the country. That's what downtown Houston could use. Comfortable, familiar people can frankly, go eat at Landry's. They wouldn't like downtown no matter what we did.

If that is small minded, I'll take it as a compliment.