2009 Nissan GT-R

[memebag]

"It's gone," he said when asked if launch control would return in 2010. "We just don't want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore. It'll make the 2009 GT-R really special. It'll be the only R35 with launch control." -- Kelly Toepke, News Editor

Yeah, the 2009 GT-R will be extra valuable because you can push a few buttons and be out $20k.

[TheNiche]

"It's gone," he said when asked if launch control would return in 2010. "We just don't want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore. It'll make the 2009 GT-R really special. It'll be the only R35 with launch control." -- Kelly Toepke, News Editor

Looks like they realized that they had a liabilty problem, now if TJ can accept reality......

Ha!

My concerns are validated. I win.

[TJones]

Ha!

My concerns are validated. I win.

See, a couple of bad apples may have spoiled the whole bunch, such is life. The "reality"is some dumb schmuck admittedly abused his $80k sled and expected someone else to pay for his mess. Are you ready to admit that fact Skyeye ? If this is true, it looks like Nissan has to be babysitter for those of you that don't understand how to read your manuals or even have an idea that doing burnouts all day long in your car, regardless of make or price tag, MIGHT be bad for it. Which seems to be the problem here. So, those of you that actually know how to take proper care of a car are more than welcome to come purchase what will appear to be an even better deal, performance wise.

[TJones]

"... an electronic setting on many modern sports sedans and coupes that let the driver take off from the line at a certain high speed without the wheels spinning much." (from Wikipedia)

Why do you ask?

There are 3 seperate controls, it isn't just one button on the GT-R. Go read the online manual link I provided for you, and you can read all about how it actually works.

[flipper]

I saw a red one on the west loop Sunday at 11 AM. The transmission seemed to be functioning as intended.

flipper

[TJones]

From Edmund's Inside Line Nov. 20, 2008

With the Internet bursting with ugly tales of GT-R launch control abuse, broken transaxles and void warranties, a nasty rumor began; that the 2010 Nissan GT-R won't have launch control.

Could it be? Really?

So we asked and asked and asked. We asked three Nissan employees: one from the public relations department, one from engineering and one high-ranking executive. The first two confirmed its removal was being considered seriously, but the decision had not yet been made. Then the high-ranking executive confirmed the bad news.

"It's gone," he said when asked if launch control would return in 2010. "We just don't want to deal with the warranty nightmare anymore. It'll make the 2009 GT-R really special. It'll be the only R35 with launch control." -- Kelly Toepke, News Editor

Looks like they realized that they had a liabilty problem, now if TJ can accept reality......

I only found this link, which apparently Nissan called these guys back and said there has absolutlely been NO DECISION regarding the launch control. Weird.

UPDATE: Nissan just contacted us to say, "No final decision has been made about the inclusion of launch control on the MY2010 GT-R." So, for now at least, Inside Line's report is just speculation." Looks like Kelly has got some 'splaining to do. Wait! There is the link to her snippet in my link, good deal. It's all good, eye.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/20/nissan-...from-2010-gt-r/

[memebag]

There are 3 seperate controls, it isn't just one button on the GT-R. Go read the online manual link I provided for you, and you can read all about how it actually works.

That link crashes Firefox. Perhaps I clicked it too hard.

I never said launch control was "one button". It is a feature built into the 2009 GT-R, so my questions are still:

If you are only supposed to turn the VDC off when stuck in the mud, why do you have to turn it off to use the launch control?

And if you aren't supposed to use the launch control, why did they build it with launch control??

[TJones]

That link crashes Firefox. Perhaps I clicked it too hard.

I never said launch control was "one button". It is a feature built into the 2009 GT-R, so my questions are still:

If you are only supposed to turn the VDC off when stuck in the mud, why do you have to turn it off to use the launch control?

And if you aren't supposed to use the launch control, why did they build it with launch control??

That is just it meme, Nissan doesn't call it launch control. It is something the Edmunds people figured out. Nissan doesn't recommend using the transmission that way unless you are stuck. It is not a "feature" promoted by Nissan. Go read the Edmunds story again. It says it right in here.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=124017

[TheNiche]

See, a couple of bad apples may have spoiled the whole bunch, such is life. The "reality"is some dumb schmuck admittedly abused his $80k sled and expected someone else to pay for his mess. Are you ready to admit that fact Skyeye ? If this is true, it looks like Nissan has to be babysitter for those of you that don't understand how to read your manuals or even have an idea that doing burnouts all day long in your car, regardless of make or price tag, MIGHT be bad for it. Which seems to be the problem here. So, those of you that actually know how to take proper care of a car are more than welcome to come purchase what will appear to be an even better deal, performance wise.

So that's what "abuse" is? One launch after the other continuously during daylight hours?

It's not 20 launches in a row that voids the warranty. Oh, no. It only gets voided under the conditions set forth by you, TJones. Yeah....no. Doesn't work that way. I don't know how it works, but it doesn't work that way.

All I want is specificity. Why is that too much to ask?

[jm1fd]

It is not a "feature" promoted by Nissan.

It most certainly is being promoted by Nissan vis a vis their advertising performance numbers for the car that can only be achieved by using launch control.

[memebag]

That is just it meme, Nissan doesn't call it launch control. It is something the Edmunds people figured out. Nissan doesn't recommend using the transmission that way unless you are stuck. It is not a "feature" promoted by Nissan. Go read the Edmunds story again. It says it right in here.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=124017

It says no such thing. Launch control had to be built into the car, otherwise Nissan couldn't remove it from next year's model.

[TJones]

It most certainly is being promoted by Nissan vis a vis their advertising performance numbers for the car that can only be achieved by using launch control.

You have Links of Nissan Published numbers ?

Here meme, I found this article where Edmunds was actually using "real world" driving techniques, and not turning the VDC off apparently.

http://www.edmunds.com/nissan/gtr/2009/testdrive.html

...and no meme, first, there is no confirmation that the VDC controls are being removed, and if there were a change, it would simply be a matter of taking away the ability of turning the VDC off.

[memebag]

Someone at Nissan said they are removing launch control, then someone at Nissan said they aren't. Either way, Nissan included launch control in the 2009 GT-R. And they call it "launch control".

[TJones]

Someone at Nissan said they are removing launch control, then someone at Nissan said they aren't. Either way, Nissan included launch control in the 2009 GT-R. And they call it "launch control".

If you show me ONE piece of published literature, I will even let you use the nissanusa.com website, from Nissan, calling it "launch control" I will concede the point.

[memebag]

If you show me ONE piece of published literature, I will even let you use the nissanusa.com website, from Nissan, calling it "launch control" I will concede the point.

See http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2008...ch-control.html, where a "high-ranking" Nissan exec called it "launch control". Are you really pinning your argument on the idea that no one at Nissan calls their launch control "launch control"?

[TJones]

See http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2008...ch-control.html, where a "high-ranking" Nissan exec called it "launch control". Are you really pinning your argument on the idea that no one at Nissan calls their launch control "launch control"?

Are you gonna show us a published piece by Nissan calling it that, or are you pinning your argument on a third party blog.

[memebag]

Are you gonna show us a published piece by Nissan calling it that, or are you pinning your argument on a third party blog.

I trust the news editor at Edmunds on this. Why would they lie about Nissan calling their launch control "launch control"?

[jm1fd]

If you show me ONE piece of published literature, I will even let you use the nissanusa.com website, from Nissan, calling it "launch control" I will concede the point.

If you wish expect us to believe you when you say it isn't really launch control then you need to proffer a reasonable alternate purpose for that bit of software in the car's computers.

You have Links of Nissan Published numbers ?

I sure as $h|t do:

http://www.gtrnissan.com/pdf/gtr_eBrochure.en.uk.pdf

Last page. Read it and weep.

[TJones]

I trust the news editor at Edmunds on this. Why would they lie about Nissan calling their launch control "launch control"?

I'll take that as a "No, I can't find anything by Nissan saying that." thanks meme.

Why would the other guys lie and say that nobody can confirm it's been done away with for 2010 ? Again, show me something from Nissan, jm1 was able to, albeit they were the numbers from England, but that isn't what I asked, so I will concede that Nissan published a number in England of 3.5 sec. and it seems to be the only place they have for some strange reason. jm1, can you find another Nissan publication on that number, I'd like to see it, you seem to be a better surfer than me.

jm1, the alternate would be that you are able to turn the VDC off in order to help get out of a place you are stuck (the only reason the switch is for, as told by Nissan) by applying more torque to the wheels for a short period of time and not for high RPM launches to impress your buddies. Simple as that.

BTW, did you happen to see, MOTOR TREND CAR OF THE YEAR 2009 !!! Yeah, that GT-R is a real piece of crap.

[TexasVines]

I find it strange that someone that makes a CAR like that has something in the control software to help you when you get "stuck"

what total dumbass is taking THAT car somewhere that it will get "stuck"

[TJones]

I find it strange that someone that makes a CAR like that has something in the control software to help you when you get "stuck"

what total dumbass is taking THAT car somewhere that it will get "stuck"

The same someone who would think it is ok to not read the owner's manual after he signed a form instructing him to and drive continuously with the VDC off anyway, so he can do 0-60 at warp speed.

But, Nissan made the system for those that may actually lose control of their car while driving normally or is forced off and skid off the road into some wet stuff.

[Jeebus]

I saw a red one on the west loop Sunday at 11 AM. The transmission seemed to be functioning as intended.

flipper

I actually saw a red one in my neighborhood as well last Saturday evening, brand new still with paper tags.

[TexasVines]

The same someone who would think it is ok to not read the owner's manual after he signed a form instructing him to and drive continuously with the VDC off anyway, so he can do 0-60 at warp speed.

But, Nissan made the system for those that may actually lose control of their car while driving normally or is forced off and skid off the road into some wet stuff.

I realize you sell cars so you will say anything

but you REALLY think that if that car was forced off or skidded off of the road and was stuck that any type of traction control being turned on or off would make a difference

[TJones]

I realize you sell cars so you will say anything

but you REALLY think that if that car was forced off or skidded off of the road and was stuck that any type of traction control being turned on or off would make a difference

I never said that, in my experience, Texas ditch mud is hard for even a Monster Truck to get out of. I said earlier, you at least have a fighting chance with the VDC and AWD engaged for a short period.

[jm1fd]

jm1, can you find another Nissan publication on that number, I'd like to see it, you seem to be a better surfer than me.

I suspect that Nissan can't rely on the motoring press in Europe as heavily as they can here in the US to disseminate specification info, hence the documents for Europe go into more detail. I dredged up copies of basically that same document in different languages. I also found this:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:a3LaxG...=us&strip=1

That link is Google's cache of a Nissan press release posted on gtrnissan.com. For whatever reason the release was yanked from the site or their site isn't displaying it properly. In that press release Nissan quotes some magazine as having done testing and arrived at a 3.5 second 0-60.

jm1, the alternate would be that you are able to turn the VDC off in order to help get out of a place you are stuck (the only reason the switch is for, as told by Nissan) by applying more torque to the wheels for a short period of time and not for high RPM launches to impress your buddies. Simple as that.

Let's be clear here...we're not talking about just the ability to turn VDC off. Launch control goes much further than that. It allows you to dump the clutches with the engine rev'd up sky high then have the engine management and traction control systems work in concert to deliver the most possible torque to the wheels without causing wheelspin. TOTALLY unnecessary for getting un-stuck.

[TJones]

Let's be clear here...we're not talking about just the ability to turn VDC off. Launch control goes much further than that. It allows you to dump the clutches with the engine rev'd up sky high then have the engine management and traction control systems work in concert to deliver the most possible torque to the wheels without causing wheelspin. TOTALLY unnecessary for getting un-stuck.

Agreed, but in order for you to get MORE torque to the wheels and rev sky high you have to turn off the VDC while it is in R-mode, this is how their "Launch Control" works according to Edmunds. That is how they achieved those numbers. You see, with the VDC ON, you cannot get the power braking needed for launch, because the engine will power down. And before any of you can say, "Well Nissan should tell us that is how the numbers were achieved." Porsche didn't tell you, Ferrari didn't tell you, Chevy didn't tell you. However, Nissan cannot make it anymore clear that you are NOT to turn the VDC off for any other reason than that I have mentioned earlier, and if you choose to do so, it is at your own detriment. I would expect users of this forum to have a little more common sense, after all, you had the ability to find HAIF, so we are definately an above average crowd. So do not expect your transmission to be covered under the warranty for doing foolish things with it. This is not in any fineprint either, this also is the way a Porsche warranty works, a Ferrari warranty works, a Corvette warranty works, this is how your Kia Rio's warranty works also.

[TheNiche]

Agreed, but in order for you to get MORE torque to the wheels and rev sky high you have to turn off the VDC while it is in R-mode, this is how their "Launch Control" works according to Edmunds. That is how they achieved those numbers. You see, with the VDC ON, you cannot get the power braking needed for launch, because the engine will power down. And before any of you can say, "Well Nissan should tell us that is how the numbers were achieved." Porsche didn't tell you, Ferrari didn't tell you, Chevy didn't tell you. However, Nissan cannot make it anymore clear that you are NOT to turn the VDC off for any other reason than that I have mentioned earlier, and if you choose to do so, it is at your own detriment. I would expect users of this forum to have a little more common sense, after all, you had the ability to find HAIF, so we are definately an above average crowd. So do not expect your transmission to be covered under the warranty for doing foolish things with it. This is not in any fineprint either, this also is the way a Porsche warranty works, a Ferrari warranty works, a Corvette warranty works, this is how your Kia Rio's warranty works also.

My concerns about warranties apply to more than just a Nissan GT-R, and I've made it abundantly clear in previous posts. This is a Nissan problem, but it is a problem for everybody else, too.

Having said that, I'm especially unclear what the purpose of having a warranty on a performance vehicle is when I can't use the capabilities of that vehicle (which justify its cost) if doing so would violate State law and immediately void the warranty. Or does it actually void the warranty, as you suggested that it would? And if not, how far is too far? What constitutes abuse? You've indicated that that should be common sense...well it's not. Especially not for a performance car whose raison d'etre is to perform!

[TJones]

My concerns about warranties apply to more than just a Nissan GT-R, and I've made it abundantly clear in previous posts. This is a Nissan problem, but it is a problem for everybody else, too.

Having said that, I'm especially unclear what the purpose of having a warranty on a performance vehicle is when I can't use the capabilities of that vehicle (which justify its cost) if doing so would violate State law and immediately void the warranty. Or does it actually void the warranty, as you suggested that it would? And if not, how far is too far? What constitutes abuse? You've indicated that that should be common sense...well it's not. Especially not for a performance car whose raison d'etre is to perform!

If you do the proper break-in period and do the scheduled maintnence, you will be able to let 'er rip a couple of times, every few months, and you should be fine. What the dumbass who admitted to trashing the car did, is not a recommended use by ANY manufacturer Niche. Is it really that hard to grasp for you? Just because a car is capable od doing something, doesn't necessarilly mean it is good for it. Some cars you can drive forward up to 60mph and throw it in reverse, is that good for the transmission, or would you consider that abuse, even if I only did it 3 times ? What if you went drifting in your new Lexus IS350, just once around the track, and you pop a tire, would you consider it abuse, or should Lexus cover it under warranty ?

Since you've seen my side, and still have questions, what would you consider reasonable under their set terms of warranty. What level of abuse is acceptable to you ? Wait, you wanted to "accelerate girls 0-60 in 3.3" at what I interpreted to be, every chance you got. Is that reasonable to assume of you ?

jm1, I was considering that 3.5 seconds touted by Nissan, I think they did it with the VDC on in perfect conditions perhaps, maybe a tailwind. I will stand behind that number with the VDC on. I can see gaining the extra .2 seconds by turning the VDC off, or as Edmunds calls it, "Launch Control".

[memebag]

Since you've seen my side, and still have questions, what would you consider reasonable under their set terms of warranty. What level of abuse is acceptable to you ? Wait, you wanted to "accelerate girls 0-60 in 3.3" at what I interpreted to be, every chance you got. Is that reasonable to assume of you ?

If a car is sold on the basis of fast acceleration, it's reasonable to use the car for fast acceleration. Nissan can't have it both ways. If using launch control can break the transmission, then either beef up the transmission or remove launch control.

[TheNiche]

Since you've seen my side, and still have questions, what would you consider reasonable under their set terms of warranty. What level of abuse is acceptable to you ? Wait, you wanted to "accelerate girls 0-60 in 3.3" at what I interpreted to be, every chance you got. Is that reasonable to assume of you ?

You took my statement out of context.

"If I buy an $80k performance vehicle, I don't want to drive the car like I'm in a NASCAR race. The maintenance of that is expensive (even before warranty-voided repairs) and the experience of going around and around a track is boring. I'm going to want to accelerate chicks from 0 to 60 in 3.4 seconds. Never mind that they have no concept of automotive engineering, if I'm going to buy an $80k performance vehicle, I'm going to be so delusional as to think that it'll impress chicks because the salesman told me it would..."

Are you saying that I'm just that delusional that I would buy into something a car salesman told me? I had a Nissan salesman at a dealership tell me exactly that about a used 350Z. That lameass line didn't work on me then, and it won't work on me now.

I don't know what is a reasonable definition of "abuse" as set forth in their warranty. When in doubt, reasonable people ask questions. I am in doubt. I'm asking a question. Can you give me a straight answer: yes or no?