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Carnegie Vanguard High School At 1501 Taft St.


VicMan

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http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/6109559.html

HISD proposes that Carnegie Vanguard is rebuilt next to Worthing, with the cafeteria and gym shared by the two schools. Worthing would also be rebuilt.

Worthing parents are okay with the idea, but many Carnegie Vanguard parents do not like the idea at all and are vehemently against it.

Why can't HISD simply rebuild Carnegie where it is and then rebuild Worthing off of 288?

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you really have very little understanding of the purpose of magnet schools

Huh?

If anything what HISD is proposing would be close to an attempt to "social engineer" neighborhood kids (as you have said) - And the magnet parents are AGAINST this proposal.

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Huh?

If anything what HISD is proposing would be close to an attempt to "social engineer" neighborhood kids (as you have said) - And the magnet parents are AGAINST this proposal.

as well they should be....and yes of course HISD is trying to socially engineer the situation which is exactly why your idea in the other thread to turn one school into only a magnet school will never happen......the fact that you even proposed that idea lead me to believe you had zero understanding of why magnet schools exist....hence the responce in this thread

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as well they should be....and yes of course HISD is trying to socially engineer the situation which is exactly why your idea in the other thread to turn one school into only a magnet school will never happen......the fact that you even proposed that idea lead me to believe you had zero understanding of why magnet schools exist....hence the responce in this thread

Well, Vines, if HISD was totally never interested in standalone magnets, then HSPVA and DeBakey would have never happened, and Carnegie Vanguard would have never split from Jones High School.

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Well, Vines, if HISD was totally never interested in standalone magnets, then HSPVA and DeBakey would have never happened, and Carnegie Vanguard would have never split from Jones High School.

that is only 3 of 27 so that is not a great example especially when one is possibly going to be merged back with another failed school against the parents wishes....and HSPVA did use to associate with the school across the street I am not sure when that changed and DeBakey needs to be in the setting it is in because of the specific programs it offers

so holding up 11% of the programs offered is not persuasive to convince me that the real goal is not to suck in a few more state dollars and more importantly to mask the underlying failure of a number of the schools in HISD

Edited by TexasVines
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Huh?

Only 3 of 27? And this doesn't count the internal charters that, while not technically designated as "magnets," also attract students. You have East Early College, Challenge Early College, North Houston Early College, and International Studies; all of them opened in the 2000s. Also keep in mind that Carnegie separated from Jones in 2002. There's also H.P. Carter Career Center (why doesn't it have a website?) a really tiny career program - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Carterco.pdf - I'm not sure if it is a totally separate school or if it is simply a separate program, but it has a campus with a distinct location.

that is only 3 of 27 so that is not a great example especially when one is possibly going to be merged back with another failed school against the parents wishes....and HSPVA did use to associate with the school across the street I am not sure when that changed and DeBakey needs to be in the setting it is in because of the specific programs it offers

so holding up 11% of the programs offered is not persuasive to convince me that the real goal is not to suck in a few more state dollars and more importantly to mask the underlying failure of a number of the schools in HISD

Edited by VicMan
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you listed 3 schools DeBakey, HSPVA, and Carnegie in your example of separate magnet schools.....that is 3 of the 27 total magnet schools listed on the HISD link I provided....is there something hard to understand about that

as for charter schools why would you bring them up when you seem opposed to the idea of 100% vouchers and a charter school is the closest thing to a voucher school.....HISD is failed, DISD is failed as is nearly every large ISD in the USA it is time for decent parents and decent students to be released from the grip of poorly performing schools and the poorly performing students and parents that drag them all down.....vouchers is the answer for this....then parent(s) that enjoy their kids going to schools filled with violence, pants around ankles, students that act like animals and come unprepared, parents that get in teachers faces, teachers unions, liberal PC brain washing, lack of accountability, and general savage behavior can have their schools and everyone else can have theirs

there is no reason HISD needs to be in the middle of it.....and I would be 100% positive that HISD has found a way for those charter schools to skew/mask overall under performance so the fact that they exist still does not change my opinion that 100% vouchers is the way to go and then the public school system can become what the vast majority of it already is which is a day care for future criminals where disruptive, unteachable, animals with similar parents can be caged until they start their real life of crime

and again even tossing in 4 more charter schools only gets you to 22.5% of HISD alternative schools that you have listed that are not affiliated with a regular campus... 7 / (27 + 4) = 22.5% so that tells me still that 77.5% of magnet schools are set up to mask under performance of the main school which is pathetic

and many of those charter schools probably have enrollment requirements that exclude many of the students in HISD and are specifically set up to cater to certain groups......which is exactly what is helping education fail all across the USA now....ignorant pandering bureaucrats that think they know what is best for peoples children unless, God forbid, it comes to student or parent accountability across the board....the only way they stay in business is because they continue to cater to small vocal groups and buy them off with magnet and charter schools while leaving other students that may not be top performers, but value education, behind with animals that care nothing about education

it is time to separate out those that care from those that don't and leave those that don't behind for the lowest common denominator publicly run schools that have to take any and all until they can be put behind bars.....and no one needs HISD or any other ISD in the middle of running the schools for those that care

Edited by TexasVines
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1. The significance was understated, considering the dates and...

2. You said: "as for charter schools why would you bring them up when you seem opposed to the idea of 100% vouchers and a charter school is the closest thing to a voucher school....." - There are two different types of charters, TexasVines

* An internal charter is a charter school affiliated with a school district. It follows less rules than a regular school, but it is still tied to the district

* A state charter is a charter school that has NO affiliation with the local school district. It answers only to the state

* The early college schools and International Studies are all internal charters; they are all affiliated with HISD

* Allowing charter schools (already the case) and establishing vouchers that allow students to attend private school (not the case) are two totally different things, TexasVines. Some taxpayers do not want their money going towards private schools.

Also the Milwaukee school voucher program has demonstrated that school voucher programs really don't change much: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0523/p01s03-usgn.html - The article says: "Hers is the sort of story Milwaukee's school-choice advocates cite when touting the oldest and largest voucher program in the country. Now it's expanding, but 16 years after it began, the policy is still controversial and has shown few documented benefits."

You said: "and again even tossing in 4 more charter schools only gets you to 22.5% of HISD alternative schools that you have listed that are not affiliated with a regular campus... 7 / (27 + 4) = 22.5% so that tells me still that 77.5% of magnet schools are set up to mask under performance of the main school which is pathetic" - Then doesn't that mean there should be more magnet schools that are not parts of regular campuses? First you stated "according to this HISD website HISD currently has 27 magnet schools INCLUDING STERLING and WORTHING.....so again how many more do they need" (in the Jones thread) and now there's this?

In Philadelphia, however, there is a program which has private businesses pay into a private voucher fund for private school voucher students. Vines, if anything I am FOR a privately-funded private school voucher fund - It means that the schools do not have to worry about government interference, and it means that kids get to go to private school for reduced prices.

you listed 3 schools DeBakey, HSPVA, and Carnegie in your example of separate magnet schools.....that is 3 of the 27 total magnet schools listed on the HISD link I provided....is there something hard to understand about that

as for charter schools why would you bring them up when you seem opposed to the idea of 100% vouchers and a charter school is the closest thing to a voucher school.....HISD is failed, DISD is failed as is nearly every large ISD in the USA it is time for decent parents and decent students to be released from the grip of poorly performing schools and the poorly performing students and parents that drag them all down.....vouchers is the answer for this....then parent(s) that enjoy their kids going to schools filled with violence, pants around ankles, students that act like animals and come unprepared, parents that get in teachers faces, teachers unions, liberal PC brain washing, lack of accountability, and general savage behavior can have their schools and everyone else can have theirs

there is no reason HISD needs to be in the middle of it.....and I would be 100% positive that HISD has found a way for those charter schools to skew/mask overall under performance so the fact that they exist still does not change my opinion that 100% vouchers is the way to go and then the public school system can become what the vast majority of it already is which is a day care for future criminals where disruptive, unteachable, animals with similar parents can be caged until they start their real life of crime

and again even tossing in 4 more charter schools only gets you to 22.5% of HISD alternative schools that you have listed that are not affiliated with a regular campus... 7 / (27 + 4) = 22.5% so that tells me still that 77.5% of magnet schools are set up to mask under performance of the main school which is pathetic

and many of those charter schools probably have enrollment requirements that exclude many of the students in HISD and are specifically set up to cater to certain groups......which is exactly what is helping education fail all across the USA now....ignorant pandering bureaucrats that think they know what is best for peoples children unless, God forbid, it comes to student or parent accountability across the board....the only way they stay in business is because they continue to cater to small vocal groups and buy them off with magnet and charter schools while leaving other students that may not be top performers, but value education, behind with animals that care nothing about education

it is time to separate out those that care from those that don't and leave those that don't behind for the lowest common denominator publicly run schools that have to take any and all until they can be put behind bars.....and no one needs HISD or any other ISD in the middle of running the schools for those that care

Edited by VicMan
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1. I did not read anything that said the Milwaukee has failed or not changed much.....I read that it had mixed results....which one can easily say about any public school....especially when you see the FACT that it was only open to lower income students

2. of course you don't want taxes to go for choice that limits your ability to brainwash students with your BS....but everyone pays taxes why shouldn't they have a choice hos those are used for their education....unless you desire to subvert their choice?

3. the Milwaukee was only opened for lower income families which will usually lead to failure in anything since it is often those same families that don't care.....which is why their existing schools fail and is actually against all that libtards espouse which is to let lower income students mix with higher income students and it will rub off

4. the Milwaukee experiment was clearly set up to fail because as quoted in the story """"Like all schools in the program, it can't use selective criteria to admit students"""" so in other words these schools still have to take students that can't cut it and students of parents that don't give a damn which basically makes them like a private public school....which makes them a private failure

5. it is awful strange to me that they allowed rapist and morons to open these schools, but they allow the schools no control of who to let in.....gee do you think the people that started this voucher program wanted it to succeed or do you think they were more like you and they wanted it to fail so they could get back to sucking up tax dollars for brainwashing

that ignorant Milwaukee program is nothing like I or anyone else with an ounce of common sense would use as an example of a proper voucher program....because first there is ZERO accountability of who can open the schools.....second there is ZERO ability of those schools to toss kids that can't cut it back into the lowest common denominator public schools, and it was only set up for those that are often the lowest performers already (usually because they come from a family that does not care only now given a choice as stated in the article the parent(s) still may not care, but they are happier with their kids education)

A few showed signs of improved student achievement and evidence that competition improves public schools. Others showed negligible difference.

this to me sounds like it has improved for some of the kids and it sounds like it has harmed few if any......improvement for even a FEW kids is better than none which is what many public schools offer now.....and the very first child quoted in the story seems VERY HAPPY with her new school.....so again just because others have doubts (but can provide no evidence to support it at least none offered in this story) that does not mean I buy into their doubts especially when even SMALL improvements is better than the NOTHING currently offered

Still, some students say the program can make an enormous difference. "Everything has room for improvement, but if this works now, let's give it a chance," says Charles Green, a senior at Messmer Catholic High School, who will go to New York's Columbia University next fall on a full scholarship.

Messmer gets about 80 percent of its students through vouchers. Students put the name of the college they're shooting for on their locker, and the daily attendance rate - often higher than 95 percent - is posted by the entrance. Nearly 90 percent of its students go on to a four-year college every year, says principal Jeff Monday.

the above to me sounds pretty damn good....95% attendance and 90% going to college......for schools that can ONLY choose low income students.....again please show me where the problems are?

and again these schools can't pick and choose students they take all or none as the next quote says

Like all schools in the program, it can't use selective criteria to admit students.

Marchelle Hicks says she didn't know what to do with her son Orlando at his old school - he was getting failing grades and the school insisted he go on medication for attention-deficit disorder. She found out about Hope's rigorous, no-excuses curriculum through a brochure in her door, and enrolled him in fourth grade there this year.

"He's an 'A' student," Ms. Hicks says proudly. "Now we don't talk about testing or medication.... His whole attitude of going to school has changed."

again look at the above story.....the very first girl and the very last boy in the story have made HUGE improvements and their is NOTHING in that story that shows any student that has been harmed by voucher choice......it only shows the failures of Milwaukee to put any types of controls in place before starting the program......I will take two students improving any day even with Milwaukee's inability to set the rpogram up properly over what they currently offer.....and considering Milwaukee is a horribly run city with decades of problems it is not surprising they made huge mistakes in setting up anything.....that does not mean Texas or anyone else can't learn from them or has to repeat them

you should read the story again because all I read was a story of failed Milwaukee government setting something up poorly and students still managing to become better because of it

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Vines, my point is that what these vouchers are doing could be accomplished with charter schools (internal and state) and with district magnets. You know that charter schools are politically divisive and promoting them will add to legal fees incurred by the state and by other parties. We can do the things these schools do with what we have. Why push a politically, legally, and financially expensive proposal when we have a cheap and easy solution nearby? We already have choice schools which get better motivated students and which improve students' lives.

1. I did not read anything that said the Milwaukee has failed or not changed much.....I read that it had mixed results....which one can easily say about any public school....especially when you see the FACT that it was only open to lower income students

2. of course you don't want taxes to go for choice that limits your ability to brainwash students with your BS....but everyone pays taxes why shouldn't they have a choice hos those are used for their education....unless you desire to subvert their choice?

3. the Milwaukee was only opened for lower income families which will usually lead to failure in anything since it is often those same families that don't care.....which is why their existing schools fail and is actually against all that libtards espouse which is to let lower income students mix with higher income students and it will rub off

4. the Milwaukee experiment was clearly set up to fail because as quoted in the story """"Like all schools in the program, it can't use selective criteria to admit students"""" so in other words these schools still have to take students that can't cut it and students of parents that don't give a damn which basically makes them like a private public school....which makes them a private failure

5. it is awful strange to me that they allowed rapist and morons to open these schools, but they allow the schools no control of who to let in.....gee do you think the people that started this voucher program wanted it to succeed or do you think they were more like you and they wanted it to fail so they could get back to sucking up tax dollars for brainwashing

that ignorant Milwaukee program is nothing like I or anyone else with an ounce of common sense would use as an example of a proper voucher program....because first there is ZERO accountability of who can open the schools.....second there is ZERO ability of those schools to toss kids that can't cut it back into the lowest common denominator public schools, and it was only set up for those that are often the lowest performers already (usually because they come from a family that does not care only now given a choice as stated in the article the parent(s) still may not care, but they are happier with their kids education)

A few showed signs of improved student achievement and evidence that competition improves public schools. Others showed negligible difference.

this to me sounds like it has improved for some of the kids and it sounds like it has harmed few if any......improvement for even a FEW kids is better than none which is what many public schools offer now.....and the very first child quoted in the story seems VERY HAPPY with her new school.....so again just because others have doubts (but can provide no evidence to support it at least none offered in this story) that does not mean I buy into their doubts especially when even SMALL improvements is better than the NOTHING currently offered

Still, some students say the program can make an enormous difference. "Everything has room for improvement, but if this works now, let's give it a chance," says Charles Green, a senior at Messmer Catholic High School, who will go to New York's Columbia University next fall on a full scholarship.

Messmer gets about 80 percent of its students through vouchers. Students put the name of the college they're shooting for on their locker, and the daily attendance rate - often higher than 95 percent - is posted by the entrance. Nearly 90 percent of its students go on to a four-year college every year, says principal Jeff Monday.

the above to me sounds pretty damn good....95% attendance and 90% going to college......for schools that can ONLY choose low income students.....again please show me where the problems are?

and again these schools can't pick and choose students they take all or none as the next quote says

Like all schools in the program, it can't use selective criteria to admit students.

Marchelle Hicks says she didn't know what to do with her son Orlando at his old school - he was getting failing grades and the school insisted he go on medication for attention-deficit disorder. She found out about Hope's rigorous, no-excuses curriculum through a brochure in her door, and enrolled him in fourth grade there this year.

"He's an 'A' student," Ms. Hicks says proudly. "Now we don't talk about testing or medication.... His whole attitude of going to school has changed."

again look at the above story.....the very first girl and the very last boy in the story have made HUGE improvements and their is NOTHING in that story that shows any student that has been harmed by voucher choice......it only shows the failures of Milwaukee to put any types of controls in place before starting the program......I will take two students improving any day even with Milwaukee's inability to set the rpogram up properly over what they currently offer.....and considering Milwaukee is a horribly run city with decades of problems it is not surprising they made huge mistakes in setting up anything.....that does not mean Texas or anyone else can't learn from them or has to repeat them

you should read the story again because all I read was a story of failed Milwaukee government setting something up poorly and students still managing to become better because of it

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because being politically correct or doing what is easy to appease the ignorant is not in my nature especially when it comes at greater cost and difficulty for those that contribute and care the most

why put so many caring parents through the hoops just to appease the poverty pimps and welfare mongers when my goal it to make them take accountability for their thoughts and ideas even if it does mean their kids are left behind....because their kids will already be left behind as it is.......and as it is now their thoughts and ideas and their wild children are harming others kids that may not be as vocal or as able to speak up

I want these losers and their loser parents exposed and I want them to have as little ability as possible to ruin anything for anyone, but themselves and their children

you seem to have a huge problem with this.....the only reason this is controversial is because of people such as yourself that just can't allow people to actually have control over their kids education because you have great concerns that would leave your thoughts and ideas on the waste heap of history and expose them for what they are.....state sponsored failure and acceptance of meritocracy at the expense of all

the lawsuits will be a one time thing....why keep up the charade of busing and magnet schools and charter schools for a few select minorities and demographics at the expense of so many others....lawsuits don't scare me....they are often brought by the morally and politically bankrupt who see their failed ideas slipping away....I would relish the opportunity to see them crushed once and for all especially because I am 100% sure it would benefit so many more and society in general and probably at a much lower overall cost

Edited by TexasVines
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Vines, "because being politically correct or doing what is easy to appease the ignorant is not in my nature especially when it comes at greater cost and difficulty for those that contribute and care the most" isn't how to make public policy decisions. If there is no hard evidence that a school voucher arrangement will work better than a charter school/magnet school arrangement, why should I pay more money for legal fees that are not inevitable?

Look, Vines, dogma and anecdotes are not going to make that position a good sell. Firm statistical evidence will do it, and the point of that Milwaukee article is the lack of statistical evidence.

because being politically correct or doing what is easy to appease the ignorant is not in my nature especially when it comes at greater cost and difficulty for those that contribute and care the most

why put so many caring parents through the hoops just to appease the poverty pimps and welfare mongers when my goal it to make them take accountability for their thoughts and ideas even if it does mean their kids are left behind....because their kids will already be left behind as it is.......and as it is now their thoughts and ideas and their wild children are harming others kids that may not be as vocal or as able to speak up

I want these losers and their loser parents exposed and I want them to have as little ability as possible to ruin anything for anyone, but themselves and their children

you seem to have a huge problem with this.....the only reason this is controversial is because of people such as yourself that just can't allow people to actually have control over their kids education because you have great concerns that would leave your thoughts and ideas on the waste heap of history and expose them for what they are.....state sponsored failure and acceptance of meritocracy at the expense of all

the lawsuits will be a one time thing....why keep up the charade of busing and magnet schools and charter schools for a few select minorities and demographics at the expense of so many others....lawsuits don't scare me....they are often brought by the morally and politically bankrupt who see their failed ideas slipping away....I would relish the opportunity to see them crushed once and for all especially because I am 100% sure it would benefit so many more and society in general and probably at a much lower overall cost

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the Milwaukee system was set up to fail from the beginning and is nothing how anyone with a brain would set up a FULL voucher system

it is clear that following the lead of those like you IS FAILING now so it is time to change courses

there are numerous instances of success in the Milwaukee story what there is not is any signs of total failure other than to allow ALL to have choice and for the failed Milwaukee government to even have a clue how to set it up properly

and from reading the story it sounds to me like as soon as things started looking up the state suddenly stopped tracking progress probably because union mind controllers and brainwashers ask them to stop with the hopes it would die.....if it was REALLY failing you know as well as I the media would be all over it because they just as you fear the loss of government PC crap control of schools

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Vines, a lot of public magnet programs (but not all) are solely on a lottery basis and not on an application basis, just like this Milwaukee voucher system.

Dogma is not winning people over, Vines. My argument is that the voucher system is not sufficiently an improvement over the magnet/charter system, not really that it is a total failure.

the Milwaukee system was set up to fail from the beginning and is nothing how anyone with a brain would set up a FULL voucher system

it is clear that following the lead of those like you IS FAILING now so it is time to change courses

there are numerous instances of success in the Milwaukee story what there is not is any signs of total failure other than to allow ALL to have choice and for the failed Milwaukee government to even have a clue how to set it up properly

and from reading the story it sounds to me like as soon as things started looking up the state suddenly stopped tracking progress probably because union mind controllers and brainwashers ask them to stop with the hopes it would die.....if it was REALLY failing you know as well as I the media would be all over it because they just as you fear the loss of government PC crap control of schools

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Vines, a lot of public magnet programs (but not all) are solely on a lottery basis and not on an application basis, just like this Milwaukee voucher system.

Dogma is not winning people over, Vines. My argument is that the voucher system is not sufficiently an improvement over the magnet/charter system, not really that it is a total failure.

no full 100% voucher system has ever been tried so you have no clue how well it would do VS the current failures

the Milwaukee system is based on one thing and one thing only which is income and that shortchanges those that pay the most in taxes and have worked the hardest to get them and their children to where they are at and it rewards those that pay the least in taxes.....it does not surprise me that those that favor income redistribution have no issue with this

the Milwaukee system also has the HUGE flaw of schools not being able to turn down kids that have no business being there.....and that is the same problem with your desired state/public managed system....it does nothing to prevent failed parents and their stupid uncontrollable children from going to the best schools where they have no business being and forcing their way in and screwing it up for everyone else....once parents learn that only the very worst publicly run schools will accept kids that come to school hungry, without their homework or books, with their pants around their ankles, and throwing gang signs then they will either choose to care and clean up their act and their childs act or their child can be warehoused in a public school until it is their time for jail.......forcing any school to take marginal students with discipline and behavior problems and parents that refuse to be actively involved in their education is what is failing us now.....ANY charter school or magnet school that is publicly run will always be forced to eventually open up to these kids or face the very lawsuits you fear....private schools will not because the USA has freedom of association and those kids and their parents can be marginalized from contact with kids with a future as they should be and they can be free to fail in publicly run schools

and again why would I want a "lottery system" where there are winners and losers even among those who may wish to take their and their childs education seriously.....this is exactly the flaw with your argument......give to a few "lucky winners" and let the rest suffer with all the unteachable and uncontrollable

what is it exactly that scares you about allowing all to take their education resources into the realm of free choice to pick what they feel is best for their kids Vs what you favor which is a few lucky winners and a bunch that are short changed because of the lack of control of some kids and their parents

a very very selfish position if you ask me

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So what would happen to the students who can't get to any of the schools?

Do you believe in mandatory attendance? Or do you feel that school should be optional?

no full 100% voucher system has ever been tried so you have no clue how well it would do VS the current failures

the Milwaukee system is based on one thing and one thing only which is income and that shortchanges those that pay the most in taxes and have worked the hardest to get them and their children to where they are at and it rewards those that pay the least in taxes.....it does not surprise me that those that favor income redistribution have no issue with this

the Milwaukee system also has the HUGE flaw of schools not being able to turn down kids that have no business being there.....and that is the same problem with your desired state/public managed system....it does nothing to prevent failed parents and their stupid uncontrollable children from going to the best schools where they have no business being and forcing their way in and screwing it up for everyone else....once parents learn that only the very worst publicly run schools will accept kids that come to school hungry, without their homework or books, with their pants around their ankles, and throwing gang signs then they will either choose to care and clean up their act and their childs act or their child can be warehoused in a public school until it is their time for jail.......forcing any school to take marginal students with discipline and behavior problems and parents that refuse to be actively involved in their education is what is failing us now.....ANY charter school or magnet school that is publicly run will always be forced to eventually open up to these kids or face the very lawsuits you fear....private schools will not because the USA has freedom of association and those kids and their parents can be marginalized from contact with kids with a future as they should be and they can be free to fail in publicly run schools

and again why would I want a "lottery system" where there are winners and losers even among those who may wish to take their and their childs education seriously.....this is exactly the flaw with your argument......give to a few "lucky winners" and let the rest suffer with all the unteachable and uncontrollable

what is it exactly that scares you about allowing all to take their education resources into the realm of free choice to pick what they feel is best for their kids Vs what you favor which is a few lucky winners and a bunch that are short changed because of the lack of control of some kids and their parents

a very very selfish position if you ask me

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they would be the few that fall back into publicly run schools that may require long bus rides ect. to get them to a school with enough students to have an economy of scale and they could be passed from grade to grade with zero accountability by them or their parents and those few teachers that choose to put up with them and their parents could deal with them until they land in their eventual home which is jail....this may sound harsh, but there will always be kids and parents that take ZERO interest in their education and instead of catering to them and allowing them to trash other students schools and educations like so many desire......these are the VERY students and parents that need to have their behaviors modified by long bus rides, metal detectors at all doors, high on campus security, lack of after school sports, extended school hours for failing students either paid for by the parent or made up for by the parent performing mandatory school/community service and work like picking up trash and painting over their kids graffiti and cleaning the school....lack of attendance would result in more parent service or cuts in welfare or both and if year around school is required for them to get enough attendance days then that would be what happens

and yes I believe in mandatory attendance for all but home schooled kids

again you remind me of lil johnny "funbaby" edwards when he was naive enough to say "no student should go to failing schools and no one should have to live in crime filled neighborhoods"......of course no one there that heard this totally ignorant and stupid quote had the balls to ask stupid lil johnny where all the criminals would live, where the "don't snitch" people would live, and where all the people that do not give a damn about their kids or their kids education would go to school......because they all knew damn well lil johnny had NO ANSWER for such a reality based question because his policies are based on total blind, stupid, ignorance to the fact that some people just don't care and that no matter how much money you toss at them and their problems you will only embolden them to do the same destructive behaviors over and over

it is time to totally isolate the most worthless of society in schools and neighborhoods where they can be the ones that have to go through great difficulty to perform what is DEMANDED of them instead of making kids that just want a decent education be bused all over the city to various schools that are only designed to mask the failures of the real school behind the magnets and charters.....the ones that need the bus rides, metal detectors, high security, forced tutoring, and total lack of extra curriculars are those that have shown time and again that they care nothing about what is provided for them.....they should be forced to ride buses long distances and spend all their free time on that bus, in school, or in study hall until they land in jail or they change their behavior, or they graduate and land in jail eventually

the sooner the real problem makers are isolated from other students the sooner all will benefit....this will never happen when all schools have the demand placed on them to take any student because again worthless parents will haul their problem child to the best school and allow them to come to school hungry, unprepared, run wild, trash the place, and act up....the ability to toss these kids into a school that requires a long bus ride, screening for guns, has armed security, and has isolation will be a HUGE benefit to ALL others....and then if their parents can politic to get those schools policies relaxed to the point that they are like many of todays gang filled worthless hell holes at least all others that care about their kids can just shrug their shoulders and resign themselves to the fact that some will be criminals and the world needs ditch diggers too......but again at least their kids will be AWAY from these animals and their kids will be in an environment that they are satisfied with

not every kid in an under performing school is a bad kid, but there are enough bad kids in each of these schools to hamper the education of all others and many of these kids may not have the self esteem or the home life that will allow them to break away from the grips of the worthless that desire to drag them down with them.....but if they can at least get in a different environment they will have a chance

and it is not fare to make a few special environments for these kids while other better performing students with highly structured home lives and supportive parents are sent to plain schools that can't help them excel because of their families high income and or they are the ones forced to take long bus rides to horrible neighborhoods....and it is certainly not fair that their parents have to reach further into their pocket to cover the entire cost of private education

plans like yours reward the kids that want to break away from the trash in their current schools and areas, but it does it at the expense of those that actually don't need to break away from trash and or those that can actually excel if given the chance and it does it for all the wrong reasons which is their parents SUCCESS....I have no problem rewarding kids that want to break away from trash and I have no problem with them getting SOME extra resources over others, but my other problem with your plan is that it will end up with the trash just shopping for school after school to trash instead of making THEM the ones that are isolated, bused, put in plain schools with just books until they can read and it basically prevents schools from excluding that trash be it a public or private school

as long as parents can just dump their kids in any school every school will have the potential to be trashed by those kids....only when these schools are made private can they tell parents that their kids behavior, lack of caring for their education, and their lack or parenting will not allow them to be a student at that school....then those kids can go to the current public equivalent of public alternative and disciplinary schools and they can suffer the busing ect that comes with it

if you are going to give choice to a few then you need to give it to all.....because it is just plain BS to make some parents pay twice because their kids have no issues and because they worked hard and made something for their kids and family...and it is BS that the special needs will get all the benefits even if they are good kids with good parents while regular and excelling students just get to go to neighborhood school or ride a long time on a bus to a magnet far from home and in the ghetto

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Carnegie Vanguard High School Site Approved

December 17, 2009

HISD has been planning a replacement campus for Carnegie Vanguard High School since 2007, when it was made a part of the Facilities Capital Program. On December 10, 2009, the Board of Education approved building the replacement school on vacant district-owned property just south of the Gregory-Lincoln Education Center.

Carnegie Vanguard High School is currently located on the former Carnegie Elementary School campus at Scott Street and Airport Boulevard, adjacent to Sims Bayou. A new location for the school was decided on for several reasons. Most of that property and the surrounding area are within a Harris County Flood Control flood plain. Replacing Carnegie Vanguard on the same site would require relocating students to an off-site temporary campus during construction. There would also be additional costs and a reduction in usable land area related to building in the flood plain. Construction time and costs for the Gregory-Lincoln site will be reduced because the work will not involve demolition of existing buildings or relocation of students to a temporary campus. In addition, students attending Carnegie Vanguard come from all parts of the district, so a central location like the one the board approved will be more accessible to the majority of students and reduce transportation costs. Also, Carnegie Vanguard and Gregory-Lincoln can combine their separate parking facilities for evening events, and the Gregory-Lincoln kitchen could prepare meals for both schools.

Located at Taft and West Gray, the new Carnegie Vanguard site was originally purchased for replacement of the High School for Performing and Visual Arts. However, other locations that are even more favorable for HSPVA are being considered, and private fund-raising, to match future district funding, is gaining momentum. "I am confident that this new arrangement will be beneficial to everyone concerned," said Superintendent of Schools Terry B. Grier.

Article clipped from the www.hisd.org website and posted by:

Ken Macpherson

Harris County, Precinct 33

Presiding Judge

To learn more about Carnegie Vanguard HS click on http://www.vanguard ian.org/

this was a post on my neighborhood yahoo group--

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Carnegie Vanguard High School Site Approved

December 17, 2009

HISD has been planning a replacement campus for Carnegie Vanguard High School since 2007, when it was made a part of the Facilities Capital Program. On December 10, 2009, the Board of Education approved building the replacement school on vacant district-owned property just south of the Gregory-Lincoln Education Center.

Carnegie Vanguard High School is currently located on the former Carnegie Elementary School campus at Scott Street and Airport Boulevard, adjacent to Sims Bayou. A new location for the school was decided on for several reasons. Most of that property and the surrounding area are within a Harris County Flood Control flood plain. Replacing Carnegie Vanguard on the same site would require relocating students to an off-site temporary campus during construction. There would also be additional costs and a reduction in usable land area related to building in the flood plain. Construction time and costs for the Gregory-Lincoln site will be reduced because the work will not involve demolition of existing buildings or relocation of students to a temporary campus. In addition, students attending Carnegie Vanguard come from all parts of the district, so a central location like the one the board approved will be more accessible to the majority of students and reduce transportation costs. Also, Carnegie Vanguard and Gregory-Lincoln can combine their separate parking facilities for evening events, and the Gregory-Lincoln kitchen could prepare meals for both schools.

Located at Taft and West Gray, the new Carnegie Vanguard site was originally purchased for replacement of the High School for Performing and Visual Arts. However, other locations that are even more favorable for HSPVA are being considered, and private fund-raising, to match future district funding, is gaining momentum. "I am confident that this new arrangement will be beneficial to everyone concerned," said Superintendent of Schools Terry B. Grier.

Article clipped from the www.hisd.org website and posted by:

K M

Harris County, Precinct 33

Presiding Judge

To learn more about Carnegie Vanguard HS click on http://www.vanguard ian.org/

this was a post on my neighborhood yahoo group--

Edited by trymahjong
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Wow, this is exciting news. The building was the big drawback to that school, in my view. I'm so glad there will be a new building, and right in Montrose!

Wasn't that site where they were going to put the new HSPVA? But that was delayed because it was historically significant? (an African-American cemetery, if I remember correctly?)

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[

Wasn't that site where they were going to put the new HSPVA? But that was delayed because it was historically significant? (an African-American cemetery, if I remember correctly?)

When my kid was enrolled at Lamar (during Katrina) and I was on the PTO board--This is what was generally talked about--and even went a step further after Lamar enrollment was shut down with Katrina kids-(--no kidding--no new children where being accepted--even if you moved in next door to Lamar--) that the HSPVA would have a new building at that location and the old HSPVA would open as a 9th grade only from Lamar to help ease over crowding--

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Mr. Moss, the principal, announced they are planning an "open house" type meeting tentatively scheduled for Saturday, 02/06, at Lincoln Gregory Education Center to get feedback on plans and wishes for the new campus. This would be for all students, parents and interested community members from the area.

Carnegie Vanguard High School new building page

http://www.facebook .com/group. php?gid=22621314 3501

The architectural firm for the project is Rey de la Reza - RdlR Architects, Inc. They were responsible for the renovation and new building at Reagan High School.

Possible proposed timeline:

1/2010 - 1/2011 Start & Finish plans (about 12 mths from now)

1/2011 - 6/2012 - Start and Fnish construction (about 18 mths) - might be 2 or 3 mths shorter - but ready for folks for August 2012 school year

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I HATE this location. Carnegie Vanguard is an excellent school and its current location is terrible but this thing should have been built in either midtown or downtown adjacent (near the Dynamo Stadium?) to take advantage of better transit access to ALL kids. Additionally, the area where this is going up is zoned to Lamar High School which is already one of the best public schools in the area (not just within HISD).

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I live a few blocks away, and am not excited about the added traffic, but it will be better that the field that is there now. what's the rule about how close a bar can be to a school? obviously all the existing bars will be grandfathered, but this may prevent the land across the street (the old dr's office) and the empty land on gray west of the Wet Spot from getting developed as bars (gregory lincoln may have already prevented bars at those locations, but byzantio's is so close, i doubt it).

agree that it would have made more sense to put this school closer to better public transportation.

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Does anyone know what was on that block of land before HISD acquired it?

I lived 2 or 3 blocks off of Gray back in the early 70's but I have no idea what used to be in this location.

Some houses, some small businesses. one of the property owners fought like mad to prevent HISD from taking his peoperty.

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Some houses, some small businesses. one of the property owners fought like mad to prevent HISD from taking his peoperty.

I remember that. The man's father had built the house in the 20's or 30's and it had been their family home ever since. He didn't dispute HISD's use of eminent domain; he just asked that he be allowed to live there until actual construction was to begin.

But no. Some heartless bureaucrat decided that the demolition should be done immediately, so that the land could remain vacant for ten years. There's some people you just want to slap.

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this is interesting... if anyone finds any information about the zoning rule regarding bars and schools please post it.

I live a few blocks away, and am not excited about the added traffic, but it will be better that the field that is there now. what's the rule about how close a bar can be to a school? obviously all the existing bars will be grandfathered, but this may prevent the land across the street (the old dr's office) and the empty land on gray west of the Wet Spot from getting developed as bars (gregory lincoln may have already prevented bars at those locations, but byzantio's is so close, i doubt it).

agree that it would have made more sense to put this school closer to better public transportation.

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I HATE this location. Carnegie Vanguard is an excellent school and its current location is terrible but this thing should have been built in either midtown or downtown adjacent (near the Dynamo Stadium?) to take advantage of better transit access to ALL kids. Additionally, the area where this is going up is zoned to Lamar High School which is already one of the best public schools in the area (not just within HISD).

Quickly looking at the CV website, it calls itself the only ALL gifted/talented high school in Houston. That puts it in the same category as HSHP and HSPVA which I believe are classified as magnets. They have no zoned students so public transit does not matter. All those students are eligible for HISD bus transportation. Entrance exams must be taken by the students, it's not just a matter of standardized tests as both Health Professions and PVA have their own requirements and according to the CV site, they will have an entrance exam too. Students accepted will also have bus transportation furnished.

Of course, things may have changed since I last dealt with HISD and their magnet programs.

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I HATE this location. Carnegie Vanguard is an excellent school and its current location is terrible but this thing should have been built in either midtown or downtown adjacent (near the Dynamo Stadium?) to take advantage of better transit access to ALL kids. Additionally, the area where this is going up is zoned to Lamar High School which is already one of the best public schools in the area (not just within HISD).

I agree... Carnegie deserves a beautiful new school, and I love Montrose, but Montrose is a PIA to get to from anywhere else in town.

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Quickly looking at the CV website, it calls itself the only ALL gifted/talented high school in Houston. That puts it in the same category as HSHP and HSPVA which I believe are classified as magnets. They have no zoned students so public transit does not matter. All those students are eligible for HISD bus transportation. Entrance exams must be taken by the students, it's not just a matter of standardized tests as both Health Professions and PVA have their own requirements and according to the CV site, they will have an entrance exam too. Students accepted will also have bus transportation furnished.

Of course, things may have changed since I last dealt with HISD and their magnet programs.

Yes, bus transportation is provided, but it will take those buses long to get there with no nearby freeways, making a long day for the kids. Plus, there is constant murmuring about cutting bus transport to magnet schools.

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Quickly looking at the CV website, it calls itself the only ALL gifted/talented high school in Houston. That puts it in the same category as HSHP and HSPVA which I believe are classified as magnets. They have no zoned students so public transit does not matter. All those students are eligible for HISD bus transportation. Entrance exams must be taken by the students, it's not just a matter of standardized tests as both Health Professions and PVA have their own requirements and according to the CV site, they will have an entrance exam too. Students accepted will also have bus transportation furnished.

Of course, things may have changed since I last dealt with HISD and their magnet programs.

[/quot

This location is a step up from the current location, but it is simply too close to HSPVA, Law/Criminal Justice, and Lamar in my opinion. I just think it would have been a better move to place it in a more central location and one in which the area could have used the boost a bit more (East side of downtown for instance along the new rail line).

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proj975.jpg

gallery_723_64_30419.jpg

gallery_723_64_43774.jpg

gallery_723_64_68717.jpg

http://ataps1.pd.ci....raft+Agenda.pdf

I wonder if this will be just one more benefit to draw families to the inner city.

Dbigtex, take a look at the rendeirng, I might be overly optimistic but I am pretty sure that the "Fine Arts Center in Existing Building" at the bottom right of the page is indeed the Settegast Estate building you are talking about.

Edited by DrLan34
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Dbigtex, take a look at the rendeirng, I might be overly optimistic but I am pretty sure that the "Fine Arts Center in Existing Building" at the bottom right of the page is indeed the Settegast Estate building you are talking about.

Im 100 percent sure you are right DrLan34, the Settegast Estate building is the exact shape, size and dimensions as showed on the rendering. That would be awesome for them to be able to preserve part of history and give it a nice face lift smile.gif

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Im 100 percent sure you are right DrLan34, the Settegast Estate building is the exact shape, size and dimensions as showed on the rendering. That would be awesome for them to be able to preserve part of history and give it a nice face lift smile.gif

On the construction drawings this building is called the Settegast Building. I have to say that it is not much of a fine arts space. The theater is tiny compared to what most high schools have.

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