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Election Night 2008


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No, not that. I was in Young Democrats in college.

Talk to anyone under the age of 40 - and black - and they will tell you that they are pretty sure that he will be killed soon. That scares me. Also, our country is in bad enough shape with the people with experience - they've run it into the ground. What will inexperienced people do?

The shape our country is in has little to do with the experience (or the lack thereof) of our leaders. It has much more to do with foolish economic and international policies, all based on the fantasies of "experienced" people.

What do I think this inexperienced president will do? I'm hoping he'll stop making my country embarrass me.

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You asked me for my Canada (can't afford to move anywhere) reasons - I gave them above. Did you get a chance to read them? I'm just scared. Too scared to hope.

Sorry, sometimes I just read from the bottom up, missing comments that come before.

Honestly, this shouldn't be a time for fear (we've had enough of that the last 8 years).

We are the strongest, most powerful nation on earth (maybe in the history of the planet). Ask yourself... "What are you so afraid of?"

That is the question... those in power have fed on and instigated our fears. But when you stop the madness and realize your internal power (okay, not gonna get all Dr. Phil on you) and our collective power as a country, there really shouldn't be anything we should be afraid of if we are really living right and doing the right thing by people.

Because often we are not, I think it creates fear and doubt in our brains because we say one thing and do another.

It's late and I am probably babbling, but I think there is a shred of truth in a little I'm saying.

I am so proud of the young vote! I was worried that we weren't going to show up but we did. This is the election where the youths changed America! I am so proud to be an American!

obama_contempt.jpg

Oh, So Presidential!!!!

I think we're all very proud. Or at least we should be.

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I think we're all very proud. Or at least we should be.

Me, not so much. I feel like I know that I'm about to be robbed of a fortune--of a future--that I know the time and place and the amount that'll be surrendered to the thug in question, and that I'm--absolutely--completely--powerless to do anything about it.

You, macbro, were afraid of rioting white mobs in the streets. From my perspective, you're the mob.

Edited by TheNiche
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I am so proud of the young vote! I was worried that we weren't going to show up but we did. This is the election where the youths changed America! I am so proud to be an American!

obama_contempt.jpg

Oh, So Presidential!!!!

"If you smell...what Barack...is cooking" B)

To me, it's a historical night and one I'll be telling my kids and grandkids about if I ever have 'em.

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I am elated with tonight's election results.

As a New Englander, it is interesting to note that with the ® loss in Connecticut, there is no longer a single ® in the House representing any New England state. I think the Palin choice for VP might have been the final straw for the official death of the Republican Party in New England.

And even though I would get nothing but pleasure from the image of the big, bad, socialist government swooping in and stealing from The Niche, you can all just relax. It isn't going to happen. I've had to listen all week to family members talk about the "State" taking over ExxonMobil, the "Feds" telling you which doctor to see, and "Washington Elitists" stealing our guns. I have to wonder if these folks are going to be disappointed when it doesn't happen. I mean, what will they run on in 4 years if none of their fears have come true?

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And even though I would get nothing but pleasure from the image of the big, bad, socialist government swooping in and stealing from The Niche, you can all just relax. It isn't going to happen. I've had to listen all week to family members talk about the "State" taking over ExxonMobil, the "Feds" telling you which doctor to see, and "Washington Elitists" stealing our guns. I have to wonder if these folks are going to be disappointed when it doesn't happen. I mean, what will they run on in 4 years if none of their fears have come true?

The only credible issue of importance that you hit on is gun control, which is both credible and a definite threat to the long-term viability of democracy. And if it is anything like what the Clinton administration implemented, I could make a lot of money off of the speculative bulk purchase of imported pre-ban receivers and high-capacity magazines. They'll make an excellent addition to my investment portfolio.

But you've completely dodged my deepest concerns, which I've been voicing all night and for the past several months. Nothing I haven't come to expect from the likes of you, accomplice.

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I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this b/c I've only read this last page. But I wonder how wall street and the market will react today to Obama's election.

Also, I work for an oil company as I'm sure many of you guys do. I'm not all doom and gloom but I must say that when I heard Obama won last night, I thought about job security for sure. Obama isn't the biggest fan of oil companies and big companies, both of which describe my employer. I know my managers are trying to fill in positions very soon before the ups say no more. I know a big reason for that was the financial crisis but I wonder if Obama is a reason now, too.

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You, macbro, were afraid of rioting white mobs in the streets. From my perspective, you're the mob.

I wasn't afraid of whites rioting in the streets. I was turning the question back to the one that asked if blacks would be rioting.

As for your mob quote about me, I find it offensive.

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I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this b/c I've only read this last page. But I wonder how wall street and the market will react today to Obama's election.

Also, I work for an oil company as I'm sure many of you guys do. I'm not all doom and gloom but I must say that when I heard Obama won last night, I thought about job security for sure. Obama isn't the biggest fan of oil companies and big companies, both of which describe my employer. I know my managers are trying to fill in positions very soon before the ups say no more. I know a big reason for that was the financial crisis but I wonder if Obama is a reason now, too.

Wall Street had already priced in the Obama victory. Nobody up there took the McCain campaign as a serious contender. The impact through the end of the week should be minimal. Budgets, for the most part, will only really adjust once there is some semblance of clarity as to what is specifically being proposed.

What you're describing as pertaining to big oil companies is a widespread phenomenon which seemed to have kicked in over about the last six weeks (per my sources), and I suspect that it has more to do with concerns over whether the future price of oil will be supportive of new projects.

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I think these words should be embossed somewhere, and read by all. You will not find a better concession speech in the History of our Country. And thing about these words that makes them exceptional, is the very fact that you know John McCain sincerely meant every word of it. President-Elect Obama's words in response to these, were just as powerful, and I feel just as sincere. We can only hope or future is in good hands, and that the best things for our country in the for-front of ever decision made from here on out.

"Thank you for coming here on this beautiful Arizona evening. My friends, we have come to the end of a long journey. The American people have spoken, and they have spoken clearly."

"A little while ago, I had the honor of calling Senator Barack Obama to congratulate him. To congratulate him on being elected the next president of the country that we both love. In a contest as long and difficult as this campaign has been, his success alone commands my respect for his ability and perseverance. But that he managed to do so by inspiring the hopes of so many millions of Americans who had once wrongly believed that they had little at stake or little influence in the election of an American president is something I deeply admire and commend him for achieving. This is an historic election, and I recognize the special significance it has for African-Americans and for the special pride that must be theirs tonight."

"I've always believed that America offers opportunities to all who have the industry and will to seize it. Senator Obama believes that, too. But we both recognize that, though we have come a long way from the old injustices that once stained our nation's reputation and denied some Americans the full blessings of American citizenship, the memory of them still had the power to wound."

"A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt's invitation of Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House was taken as an outrage in many quarters. America today is a world away from the cruel and frightful bigotry of that time. There is no better evidence of this than the election of an African-American to the presidency of the United States."

"Let there be no reason now for any American to fail to cherish their citizenship in this, the greatest nation on Earth. Senator Obama has achieved a great thing for himself and for his country. I applaud him for it, and offer him my sincere sympathy that his beloved grandmother did not live to see this day. Though our faith assures us she is at rest in the presence of her creator and so very proud of the good man she helped raise."

"Senator Obama and I have had and argued our differences, and he has prevailed. No doubt many of those differences remain. These are difficult times for our country. And I pledge to him tonight to do all in my power to help him lead us through the many challenges we face. I urge all Americans who supported me to join me in not just congratulating him, but offering our next president our good will and earnest effort to find ways to come together to find the necessary compromises to bridge our differences and help restore our prosperity, defend our security in a dangerous world, and leave our children and grandchildren a stronger, better country than we inherited."

"Whatever our differences, we are fellow Americans. And please believe me when I say no association has ever meant more to me than that. It's natural, tonight, to feel some disappointment. But tomorrow, we must move beyond it and work together to get our country moving again. We fought - we fought as hard as we could. And though we feel short, the failure is mine, not yours."

"I am so deeply grateful to all of you for the great honor of your support and for all you have done for me. I wish the outcome had been different, my friends. The road was a difficult one from the outset, but your support and friendship never wavered. I cannot adequately express how deeply indebted I am to you."

"I'm especially grateful to my wife, Cindy, my children, my dear mother and all my family, and to the many old and dear friends who have stood by my side through the many ups and downs of this long campaign. I have always been a fortunate man, and never more so for the love and encouragement you have given me. You know, campaigns are often harder on a candidate's family than on the candidate, and that's been true in this campaign. All I can offer in compensation is my love and gratitude and the promise of more peaceful years ahead."

"I am also, of course, very thankful to Governor Sarah Palin, one of the best campaigners I have ever seen, and an impressive new voice in our party for reform and the principles that have always been our greatest strength... her husband Todd and their five beautiful children... for their tireless dedication to our cause, and the courage and grace they showed in the rough and tumble of a presidential campaign. We can all look forward with great interest to her future service to Alaska, the Republican Party and our country."

"To all my campaign comrades, from Rick Davis and Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter, to every last volunteer who fought so hard and valiantly, month after month, in what at times seemed to be the most challenged campaign in modern times, thank you so much. A lost election will never mean more to me than the privilege of your faith and friendship."

"I don't know what more we could have done to try to win this election. I'll leave that to others to determine. Every candidate makes mistakes, and I'm sure I made my share of them. But I won't spend a moment of the future regretting what might have been."

"This campaign was and will remain the great honor of my life, and my heart is filled with nothing but gratitude for the experience and to the American people for giving me a fair hearing before deciding that Senator Obama and my old friend Senator Joe Biden should have the honor of leading us for the next four years."

"I would not be an American worthy of the name should I regret a fate that has allowed me the extraordinary privilege of serving this country for a half a century. Today, I was a candidate for the highest office in the country I love so much. And tonight, I remain her servant. That is blessing enough for anyone, and I thank the people of Arizona for it."

"Tonight, more than any night, I hold in my heart nothing but love for this country and for all its citizens, whether they supported me or Senator Obama - I wish Godspeed to the man who was my former opponent and will be my president. And I call on all Americans, as I have often in this campaign, to not despair of our present difficulties, but to believe, always, in the promise and greatness of America, because nothing is inevitable here."

"Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history. Thank you, and God bless you, and God bless America. Thank you all very much."

It was also reported that GWB has put together a transition task-force to insure the his replacement has all the tools he needs to perform his job from day one. It was brought up to the reports of the lack of this that was done behind the Clinton's. Something was said to have compared the condition of the executive wing being left in the condition of an evacuated frat house. Something like $15,000 worth of damage. President Bush has assured there will be no such issue with this change of power. Which I think this is a good thing.

Life goes on, we can all take a break now.

Edited by Mark F. Barnes
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I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this b/c I've only read this last page. But I wonder how wall street and the market will react today to Obama's election.

Also, I work for an oil company as I'm sure many of you guys do. I'm not all doom and gloom but I must say that when I heard Obama won last night, I thought about job security for sure. Obama isn't the biggest fan of oil companies and big companies, both of which describe my employer. I know my managers are trying to fill in positions very soon before the ups say no more. I know a big reason for that was the financial crisis but I wonder if Obama is a reason now, too.

So far, the markets are favorable. Also telling were the Asian and European gains on the overnight. As far as your job security goes, I would say that's far more dependent on the price of oil, and how much cash your particular company is sitting on. And, I'd say that managers rushing to fill positions (especially toward the end of the year) can also be due to the budget planning cycle as anything. You don't want to leave budget dollars (empty positions), on the table--and be perceived as not needing them. Makes it harder to make the case for your budget the next time around.

I would say, don't worry, Lockmat.

Oops I see Niche has answered you as well. And I agree--the markets--to a large extent-- have already priced in the election.

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I keep forgetting to post and see what the rest of you think--Massachusetts rejected an amendment to end the state income tax. I find that very interesting. Granted Mass is a blue state, but it still seemed pretty amazing.

To me the reasons to oppose it seem straightfoward--services would slashed and since the money would have to come from somewhere, property taxes would skyrocket. Probably would also be very bad news for credit ratings and bond issues. But obviously I don't have the whole story. Curious as to what the plan was to replace the revenue generated by the income tax. Kinkaid Alum, what's your take?

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I think these words should be embossed somewhere, and read by all. You will not find a better concession speech in the History of our Country. And thing about these words that makes them exceptional, is the very fact that you know John McCain sincerely meant every word of it. President-Elect Obama's words in response to these, were just as powerful, and I feel just as sincere. We can only hope or future is in good hands, and that the best things for our country in the for-front of ever decision made from here on out.

I agree, I though both McCain and Obama gave exceptional speeches last night.

It was also reported that GWB has put together a transition task-force to insure the his replacement has all the tools he needs to perform his job from day one. It was brought up to the reports of the lack of this that was done behind the Clinton's. Something was said to have compared the condition of the executive wing being left in the condition of an evacuated frat house. Something like $15,000 worth of damage. President Bush has assured there will be no such issue with this change of power. Which I think this is a good thing.

Life goes on, we can all take a break now.

It will be interesting to see how the transition goes. When the GWB administration took office, it seems that they distanced themselves from anything relating to stigma they saw as Bill Clinton. I think it was just part of trashing Clinton's reputation. I wonder if Obama will pay any heed to what GWB transitions to him. With Bush's low approval rating, Obama will probably also look to distance himself from Bush as much as possible.

The White House damage story seemed more like a political stunt than anything else. Bob Barr and the GOP spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars for a year-long investigation primarily for the purpose of harming Clinton's reputation, and only $15,000 in damages was found, most of it standard wear and tear. But I doubt we'll see anything like this next January.

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I keep forgetting to post and see what the rest of you think--Massachusetts rejected an amendment to end the state income tax. I find that very interesting. Granted Mass is a blue state, but it still seemed pretty amazing.

To me the reasons to oppose it seem straightfoward--services would slashed and since the money would have to come from somewhere, property taxes would skyrocket. Probably would also be very bad news for credit ratings and bond issues. But obviously I don't have the whole story. Curious as to what the plan was to replace the revenue generated by the income tax. Kinkaid Alum, what's your take?

First off, I will say I am surprised by the results. I knew that Prop 1 would fail, but I had no idea it would fail by that much. As of this morning, it went down hard (70% NO to 30% YES). In fact, only one town voted for the measure (Essex, a small suburb on the North Shore). People voted no in the large cities (Boston, Worcester, and Springfield). They voted no down on the Cape (Provincetown, Barnstable, Hyannis). They voted no on the Islands (Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard). They voted no in the blue collar cities (Lowell, Fall River, New Bedford). They voted no in places with huge amounts of immigrants (Chelse and Lawrence). They voted no in the blue blood western suburbs (Concord, Wellesley, Weston). They voted no in the university towns (Williamstown, Amherst, Cambridge). They voted no in the "Jewsih" burbs (Newton and Brookline). They voted no out West (Pittsfield). The witches said NO in Salem. The pregnant teens said NO in Gloucester. I was very pleasantly surprised.

We also voted to decriminalize small amounts of marijuana and to ban dog racing.

I can't really speak for other voters, but I know I voted NO for several reasons. First, it would increase the deficit in the Commonwealth big time. That's irresponsible. Secondly, it would negatively affect things like schools, health care, roads, the MBTA, public parks, social services, and a host of other programs that make Massachusetts such a great place to live. That said, here's my favorite blog about the issue. Good stuff. This guy should join the HAIF.

http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologis...s_income_ta.php

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obama_contempt.jpg

Your picture is actually from an anti-Obama website.

What do I think this inexperienced president will do? I'm hoping he'll stop making my country embarrass me.

This is such a vague statement. How has America embarrassed you?

I'm not sure if someone has mentioned this b/c I've only read this last page. But I wonder how wall street and the market will react today to Obama's election.
So far, the markets are favorable.

As of 1pm, the Dow was down 300 points. How is that favorable?

Honestly, this shouldn't be a time for fear (we've had enough of that the last 8 years).

We are the strongest, most powerful nation on earth (maybe in the history of the planet). Ask yourself... "What are you so afraid of?"

Your answer is found in the answer to this man's concerns:

Also, I work for an oil company as I'm sure many of you guys do. I'm not all doom and gloom but I must say that when I heard Obama won last night, I thought about job security for sure. Obama isn't the biggest fan of oil companies and big companies, both of which describe my employer. I know my managers are trying to fill in positions very soon before the ups say no more. I know a big reason for that was the financial crisis but I wonder if Obama is a reason now, too.

People didn't think about that when they voted. As the youtube videos have shown, many voted simply because of race, some voted because of a belief that Obama will somehow magically put gas in their cars, food on their tables, and pay their mortgage, some for strictly for party affiliation, and some voted because they hate "Bush Inc."

But those worried about keeping their jobs didn't vote for Obama, and I'll tell you why: If Obama does implement his tax plan, people will lose their jobs, and small businesses will close. Companies will retract, rather than expand - if not moving more of their operations out of the country. Prices for retail goods will increase to over compensate for revenue lost, then when profits are down, employers will lay off employees so that prices will decrease.

Hollywood, liberals with money, and the most poor are the only that enjoy Obama's presidency. Hollywood and liberals with money enjoy giving their money away, and poor people love getting free money. Everyone else who voted for him, once either laid-off, have reduced hours, or are just successful enough on paper, but see no difference in their wallets due to their tax bracket, will not likely vote for him again.

Also, all those who are eager for the war in Iraq to end needs to ask what those tens of thousands of civilian's working government contract jobs are going to do when they're laid off? Only so much of what is made/provided by government contracts can be rolled over into stateside production.

I am predicting that four years from now, we will still be in debt, and unemployment will be up substantially more than what it is now.. I hope I'm wrong, but for Obama to hope to change anything - he needs to change his tax plan.

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Also, all those who are eager for the war in Iraq to end needs to ask what those tens of thousands of civilian's working government contract jobs are going to do when they're laid off? Only so much of what is made/provided by government contracts can be rolled over into stateside production.

That has got to be the most ridiculous justification for not ending the war.

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This is such a vague statement. How has America embarrassed you?

Things America has done over the last 8 years that have embarrassed me, off the top of my head:

  • We invaded Iraq.
  • We fabricated evidence to justify that invasion.
  • We set up a detention facility where we can hold people for years without due process.
  • We abducted, imprisoned and tortured people in violation of US and international law.
  • Cheney argues that his office isn't part of the executive branch and his records never have to be made public.
  • Bush seems to lack basic language skills.
  • The Bush administration tampers with scientific evidence to protect industry at the expense of the citizens and their environment.
  • Bush believes that "intelligent design" should be taught as an alternative theory to evolution in school science classes.

The list could go on.

Also, all those who are eager for the war in Iraq to end needs to ask what those tens of thousands of civilian's working government contract jobs are going to do when they're laid off? Only so much of what is made/provided by government contracts can be rolled over into stateside production.

That doesn't even make sense mathematically. All of those jobs are being paid for with tax money. If they were all laid off tomorrow, we could continue to pay them their salary in jobless benefits with zero impact on the economy.

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Your answer is found in the answer to this man's concerns:

People didn't think about that when they voted. As the youtube videos have shown, many voted simply because of race, some voted because of a belief that Obama will somehow magically put gas in their cars, food on their tables, and pay their mortgage, some for strictly for party affiliation, and some voted because they hate "Bush Inc."

But those worried about keeping their jobs didn't vote for Obama, and I'll tell you why: If Obama does implement his tax plan, people will lose their jobs, and small businesses will close. Companies will retract, rather than expand - if not moving more of their operations out of the country. Prices for retail goods will increase to over compensate for revenue lost, then when profits are down, employers will lay off employees so that prices will decrease.

Hollywood, liberals with money, and the most poor are the only that enjoy Obama's presidency. Hollywood and liberals with money enjoy giving their money away, and poor people love getting free money. Everyone else who voted for him, once either laid-off, have reduced hours, or are just successful enough on paper, but see no difference in their wallets due to their tax bracket, will not likely vote for him again.

Also, all those who are eager for the war in Iraq to end needs to ask what those tens of thousands of civilian's working government contract jobs are going to do when they're laid off? Only so much of what is made/provided by government contracts can be rolled over into stateside production.

I am predicting that four years from now, we will still be in debt, and unemployment will be up substantially more than what it is now.. I hope I'm wrong, but for Obama to hope to change anything - he needs to change his tax plan.

I am embarrassed for you that you think the DOW is the economy. FWIW, historically, the DOW does very well under Democratic presidents, better on average than under Republicans. I might also point out that the DOW was at 10543 on Bush's 2001 inauguration. Do you really want to compare a one day 300 point drop to an 8 year 1,200 point one? And, considering the size of this recession and the housing and financial crisis that caused it, most economists predict that unemployment WILL grow substantially in the future. You do not stop recessions with an election. Unemployment tends to be a lagging indicator, meaning it will continue to rise even after the recession officially ends. I will be surprised if unemployment is NOT higher in 4 years than it is today.

We will still be in debt in 4 years? Really? What was your first clue? Was it Bush's 2009 budget that will add $1 TRILLION to the national debt? Was it the fact that we are just entering the recession, as opposed to coming out of it? Was it just a lucky guess? I vote for number 3, given the rest of your post. And changing his tax plan? Have you not figured out that Bush's tax plan DOUBLED our debt in 8 years? McCain offered more of the same. You need to either pay your taxes to reduce the debt, or mortgage your future and demand low taxes. You can't have both. That is a GOP myth that coincidentally was voted out last night.

As for the tens of thousands of civilians in Iraq, I'll ask you. At $120 Billion per year, do you not think there are a few reconstruction projects that could be funded here in the US, precisely the type of government investment in infrastructure that economists say is needed to spur the foundering economy?

I didn't expect any opinions to change with the vote last night, and I did expect the snarkiness to begin immediately, but I must warn you, as tough as Obama's job will be, it is that tough because of what Bush and the GOP have done, not because of anything he hasn't done.

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I really don't worry about Obama's tax plan. Most of that was just to get votes. He's not going to raise taxes for the rich or for the corporations. Where do you think the bulk of his campaign money came from? There's the old saying, "don't bite the hand that feeds you" and Obama's way too smart to do that. This country has been and always will be run by big business and it's not going to change with a Democrat in control. I'd also be surprised if we "middle class" see any of the tax cuts he promised. We have a huge national debt and someone has to pay for it. Hope I'm wrong but most politicians are bought and paid for these days.

I just hope he can reign in some of the spending. Getting out of Iraq will help. Hey, maybe he can switch some of those jobs over to border control.

Edited by LunaticFringe
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Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, or not;

From NBC's Andrea Mitchell

A senior Obama advisor confirms to NBC News that Illinois Rep. Rahm Emanuel has accepted the job of Chief of Staff for the Obama White House.

*** UPDATE *** In an email to NBC News, Emanuel spokeswoman Sarah Feinberg denies the reporting that Emanuel has accepted the chief of staff job.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...05/1654796.aspx

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I am predicting that four years from now, we will still be in debt, and unemployment will be up substantially more than what it is now.. I hope I'm wrong, but for Obama to hope to change anything - he needs to change his tax plan.

Obama is going to need to level with us about a realistic solution.

Perhaps the most fundamental problem that we're dealing with is that the ratio of consumption against savings as components of GDP have gotten all out of whack. Investment and Savings is the only viable solution; not only is it vitally important for the long-term so as to support retirement consumption by aging Boomers, but it is necessary now even as a short-run solution. Encouraging a higher savings rate would help to keep financial institutions capitalized and provides them the funds to lend that are necessary for entrepreneurs acting in a competitive environment to further develop our capital stock, enhance productivity, and ultimately to continue growing our economy.

The $168 billion of economic stimulus such as was enacted in February was irresponsible and destructive in multiple ways. Firstly, the stimulus was intentionally set up as a disproportionate transfer of wealth from high-earning taxpayers to low-earning taxpayers. That pisses off free market fundies, and rightly so because it is after all tantamount to theft. But since lower-earning households have a low propensity to save, most of that 'stimulus' only caused a brief burst of consumption spending, much of which only exacerbated the imbalance of trade. Worse, we issued a ton of government debt to finance this consumption, which crowded out the market for debt which might have been put to other, more productive uses.

From what has been talked about by Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, they sound very enthusiastic about continuing the failed economic policy of the GWB administration. Keynesianism may be tempting as it is politically popular and has application from time to time, but this isn't that time. Obama promoted himself the candidate of change, but the truth is that real change may be a bitter pill to swallow.

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I am embarrassed for you that you think the DOW is the economy. FWIW, historically, the DOW does very well under Democratic presidents, better on average than under Republicans. I might also point out that the DOW was at 10543 on Bush's 2001 inauguration. Do you really want to compare a one day 300 point drop to an 8 year 1,200 point one? And, considering the size of this recession and the housing and financial crisis that caused it, most economists predict that unemployment WILL grow substantially in the future. You do not stop recessions with an election. Unemployment tends to be a lagging indicator, meaning it will continue to rise even after the recession officially ends. I will be surprised if unemployment is NOT higher in 4 years than it is today.

The DJIA is an indicator of risk-adjusted earnings expectations among the country's largest corporations. The implications of Obama's rhetoric (which whether it is credible or not remains TBD) are potentially hurtful to business and the economy, and especially to large corporations. His rhetoric developed expectations on Wall Street, and that he would successfully be elected was pretty clearly evident well before last night. That is to say...the adverse effects that his policies are expected to have are already built into stock pricing, and that has occurred months prior to the end of the current administration's term.

So you could make the argument that the DJIA hasn't done well under the GWB administration or under Republicans, and I could make the argument that the DJIA has fallen further and further as it became increasingly clear that Obama would win. Both are really crappy lines of reasoning, ignoring the differences between correlation and causation, but that wouldn't prevent us from spouting plenty of partisan nonsense--if we so choose. ...either that, or you and I could both admit that the DJIA is the function of an enormously complex and volatile set of variables inclusive of the political environment but with specific political matters potentially having an impact prior to, during and following EACH of the following processes: 1) proposal, 2) implementation, and 3) consequences, effectively rendering an attempt at objective analysis unreliable and invalid.

Stalemate. Happy?

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Stalemate. Happy?

Happy that you agree that the Dow is not the economy. Not happy if you think that I threw out that worthless stat about the Dow's performance under different parties as meaningful in any way. I pointed out that the Dow does better under Dem presidents to show that even Jeebus' meaningless point that the Dow dropped today was flawed.

BTW, if Jeebus would like to know why the Dow REALLY dropped today, he might look at the October jobs report that was released today.

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Nice. :lol:

Anyone want to predict what her next move is?

Dancing with the stars? Or maybe a Fox show like "The View" with Ann Coulter and Michelle Maulkin. "The View from Hell". Seriously though, I think there are enough hard core Repubs that will encourage her to run in 2012.

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Not bad for a Community Organizer:

Hardly, he won because of three combined reasons: 1. television and print media 2. he's African American, and 3. he ran on the Democratic ticket. Number 1 and number 3 picked him four years ago and began grooming him. No one was going to beat him this election.

If you're going to give credit - give it where due.

That has got to be the most ridiculous justification for not ending the war.

Its not a reason to "not end the war". It was a legitimate question. I want to know how you feel about those thousands that have contract jobs that could be laid off if the war is brought to an abrupt end.

That doesn't even make sense mathematically. All of those jobs are being paid for with tax money. If they were all laid off tomorrow, we could continue to pay them their salary in jobless benefits with zero impact on the economy.

So you're rather pay people a portion of their contract job salary as welfare? I guess they'll get the rest of their lost income on the back end from Obama's tax breaks/credits.

I didn't expect any opinions to change with the vote last night, and I did expect the snarkiness to begin immediately, but I must warn you, as tough as Obama's job will be, it is that tough because of what Bush and the GOP have done, not because of anything he hasn't done.

You never fail to "blame it all on the GOP". You can feel however you like for me, and other conservatives though, we'll just compare notes four years from now and see the chips actually fell.

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Its not a reason to "not end the war". It was a legitimate question. I want to know how you feel about those thousands that have contract jobs that could be laid off if the war is brought to an abrupt end.

____ 'em.

So you're rather pay people a portion of their contract job salary as welfare? I guess they'll get the rest of their lost income on the back end from Obama's tax breaks/credits.

I'd definitely rather that than pay them to live in and stimulate the economy of a foreign country if their work was not otherwise furthering the interests of United States taxpayers.

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Hardly, he won because of three combined reasons: 1. television and print media 2. he's African American, and 3. he ran on the Democratic ticket. Number 1 and number 3 picked him four years ago and began grooming him. No one was going to beat him this election.

Not me. I voted for the White half. Trae probably voted for the Black half, though.

Just one article on Obama's vaunted "ground game"...

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na...0,6488135.story

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Does anyone have details on his income tax increase? I've only read that his tax increase for those over $250k will be at 39.5%. What about those that earn over 1 million? 5 million? What will their tax rates be...40 something %?

His proposal is not really a proposal to increase taxes, but a proposal to allow the Bush tax cuts to expire. To jerry rig the budget numbers, Bush's tax cuts were not made permanent. They are set to expire in 2010 or 2011. The tax rates would then return to the Clinto tax rates enacted in 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Budge...ion_Act_of_1993

The net result of allowing the cuts to expire, of course, is that the top tax rate increases to 39.6%. That's it. There are also proposals to extend the Bush tax cuts on incomes below $250,000, and some other credits.

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Not me. I voted for the White half. Trae probably voted for the Black half, though.

You're being facetious. I would imagine you voted more for reason number 3 than Trae did however - solely based on both your posts.

Edited by Jeebus
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You're being facetious. I would imagine you voted more for reason number 3 than Trae did however - solely based on both your posts.

Actually, if you knew anything about how little use I have for idiots, you would know that my vote had nothing whatsoever to do with his race and everything to do with his intelligence.

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Actually, if you knew anything about how little use I have for idiots, you would know that my vote had nothing whatsoever to do with his race and everything to do with his intelligence.

I never accused you of voting for him based on race. Re-read.

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