memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 From Chron:But the statewide survey of 550 registered voters has one very surprising finding: 23 percent of Texans are convinced that Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama is a Muslim.Wow. That's almost half of the people who say they will vote for McCain. How does this happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 From Chron:Wow. That's almost half of the people who say they will vote for McCain. How does this happen?Actually, that is half the number of people who still think that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks. If I were an Obama advisor, I'd call 23% a resounding victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 From Chron:Wow. That's almost half of the people who say they will vote for McCain. How does this happen?it's all about being uninformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 it's all about being uninformed. Just one more thing that Texas is #1 at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudemeister Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It's proof that 23% of Texans, no 25% of Americans, are lacking something upstairs. Seriously I am not even an Obama supporter, and I know he is not a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It's kinda disturbing to me that so many Texans were misinformed after a 19-month campaign, but I think it's REALLY disturbing that if a candidate were a Muslim, it'd be enough to deter people from paying attention to the issues first. It just shows that as a society, we still have work to do no matter who's elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It's kinda disturbing to me that so many Texans were misinformed after a 19-month campaign, but I think it's REALLY disturbing that if a candidate were a Muslim, it'd be enough to deter people from paying attention to the issues first. It just shows that as a society, we still have work to do no matter who's elected.Not just Muslims. There are a lot of people who would be freaked out if he was Catholic, too.I'm too young to have seen it, but from what I've been told there was pretty widespread hysteria when JFK was running because of his religion. People were convinced he was going to turn the nation over to the Pope to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Not just Muslims. There are a lot of people who would be freaked out if he was Catholic, too.Or, perhaps, Mormon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heights2Bastrop Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Not sure what category I belong in. I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNiche Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Not sure what category I belong in. I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Not just Muslims. There are a lot of people who would be freaked out if he was Catholic, too.Oh, absolutely. I think it's disturbing when people think questioning a person's religion, race, or name should be a deciding factor in if they deserve their vote than what they can do about the economy, job creation, and policies. Not sure what category I belong in. I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 It's proof that 23% of Texans, no 25% of Americans, are lacking something upstairs. i'd say realistically the percentages are much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Just because a guy, and a politician at that, claims to be a Christian and attends a Christian church doesn't mean his is a Christian in his Heart.The same is probably true of most elected officials. They dare not admit their lack of belief because some large segment of the voting population has an irrational fear of non-Christians.But that doesn't make them Muslims. No one but Obama himself knows that for sure, so the question is whether or not you believe him. Personally, I have my doubts.Why? What makes you think he could be secretly following Islam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 That's not just a far-right thing either. I've also heard the far-left mentioning Palin's "radical" Christian beliefs like anyone responsible is supposed to care. Once again, that should only be trivial to educated voters. What SHOULD matter is where McCain and her also stands on issues like the economy and other REAL issues. I guess my point is that even though there may be a lot of dumb people out there, we know better and don't have to be. Also, personally, I'm not worried about his or McCain's past associations (because both have met questionable people that have nothing to do with anything). I'm worried about their CURRENT associations. Obama's lined himself up with Biden. McCain's aligned himself up with Palin. "Reverend" Wright, Bill Ayers, or the Keating 5 will not be in Obama or McCain's cabinet. People like Colin Powell, Hillary Clinton, Rudy Guliani, and Mitt Romney may be. We, the educated, should start with those associations and go from there.You are right you don't have to go very far on HAIF to find this very example of people attacking Palin because she is a " nutjob " because of some of her beliefs. And to your last point the idea is that we have to judge them by their past associations and decisions, be they smoking Crack, or hanging out with Bill Ayers because that is how we judge their character, especially in Obama's case with his lack of experiance and relative newness in national politics.The same is probably true of most elected officials. They dare not admit their lack of belief because some large segment of the voting population has an irrational fear of non-Christians.But that doesn't make them Muslims.Why? What makes you think he could be secretly following Islam?Well, for one thing people have this fear because he went to muslim schools as a child, has a foreign name usually adopted by muslims, and usually change when christians, and there was his slip up in that interview where he talks about his muslim faith.Look being Muslim is always going to have a negative conotation in a christian nation, especially if you are running for commander and chief of said nation. I don't think anyone has to outline the attrocities that have occured under the muslim name over the last thousands of years, oh wait I am forgetting that it is a peaceful religion and that their are extreme or radical factions. Well Obama doesn't associate with any radicals does he? Oh wait he has. I am not declaring him a muslim, I think there is a lot of misinformation out there. but I don't like his associations and his past, it does not put me at ease and I think a lot of folks feel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well, for one thing people have this fear because he went to muslim schools as a child,But he didn't, and you can find that out with a simple google search.has a foreign name usually adopted by muslims,Since when do Muslims "usually" adopt names? Are you confusing Islam with the Nation of Islam?and usually change when christians,Huh?and there was his slip up in that interview where he talks about his muslim faith.You mean when he left out the words "insinuation" or "implication", and then went on to proclaim his Christian faith?Look being Muslim is always going to have a negative conotation in a christian nation,I hope not, but the US isn't a "Christian nation".especially if you are running for commander and chief of said nation. I don't think anyone has to outline the attrocities that have occured under the muslim name over the last thousands of years, oh wait I am forgetting that it is a peaceful religion and that their are extreme or radical factions.Why would Muslims be held more accountable for religious atrocities than Christians? Are we worried that McCain is going to burn witches and Jews because he says he's a Christian?Well Obama doesn't associate with any radicals does he? Oh wait he has.I've heard a recording of McCain praising G. Gordon Liddy on Liddy's radio show. If you've got anything worse on Obama, please share it.I am not declaring him a muslim, I think there is a lot of misinformation out there. but I don't like his associations and his past, it does not put me at ease and I think a lot of folks feel that way.Then a lot of people aren't thinking critically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westguy76 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Then a lot of people aren't thinking critically.thinking critically does not equal agreeing with you on all these points, I have come to different conclusions. We could and it has been spun for months, all this. But this election is coming down to the basic idealogical differances people have because these canditates are so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 thinking critically does not equal agreeing with you on all these points, I have come to different conclusions. We could and it has been spun for months, all this. But this election is coming down to the basic idealogical differances people have because these canditates are so different.Yeah, that and 23% of Texans refusing to accept reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProHouston Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Oh, absolutely. I think it's disturbing when people think questioning a person's religion, race, or name should be a deciding factor in if they deserve their vote than what they can do about the economy, job creation, and policies.You don't think a person's values have anything to do with how they run the country? If in fact Obama was a muslim but claimed Christianity for political purposes (I don't think he is), then he's a liar. I would have a problem with him running my country. Additionally, even his Christian minister is a radical that doesn't share Christian values. He cusses from the pulpit, preaches prejudice, and is for abortion. These aren't Christian ideals. Christianity is inclusive and values all people, even the unborn. I wouldn't consider Obama muslim or Christian. And yes, I'd prefer a Christian in the White House. of any race, with any name, big ears or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniepwils Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 He did attend a Muslim school for a few months as he also attended a catholic school as well. When his parents met his father was not a practicing Muslim and his mother was atheist. Growing up as a child his mother had the Bible, Koran and Bhagavad-Gita on his bookshelves at home among other spiritual books, not so much as religious tools but for intellectual tools.(Oh and I am not a Obama supporter, nor a McCain supporter)Why does it matter as to what religion he practices? I mean come on, it isn't like he left his ailing wife for a rich pretty one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heights2Bastrop Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 and there was his slip up in that interview where he talks about his muslim faith.My feeling is that his "slip up" was of the Freudian variety. Consider this; if you are a Christian, would you believe you could accidentally mention "my Jewish faith"? Or if you are White, would you ever slip up and say "my Black heritage"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I can't believe what I'm reading here.But let's say for the sake of argument that you folks are right, and Obama is a "secret Muslim." If so, great. When he's elected next week, and we have a chance to see what he accomplishes over the next four years, you might finally understand that most Muslims are god-fearing, family-loving, hard-working, decent human beings. At least, that what I imagine someone with good Christian values would be willing to accept and believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 He did attend a Muslim school for a few months as he also attended a catholic school as well.He didn't attend a Muslim school, though. That was debunked back in 2007.My feeling is that his "slip up" was of the Freudian variety. Consider this; if you are a Christian, would you believe you could accidentally mention "my Jewish faith"? Or if you are White, would you ever slip up and say "my Black heritage"?Read the entire transcript. He was saying McCain hadn't accused him of being a Muslim. He clarified it in the next sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heights2Bastrop Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 How can you not consider a person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 How could I be asked to accept a religion I don't understand?Who is asking that of you?I have read the entire transcript, many times, in fact, and I still feel the way I do.Then it sounds like you have some reason for wanting to believe Obama may be a Muslim. There's no evidence for it, there's evidence against it, and yet you choose to feel he might be a Muslim. What's that about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I can't believe what I'm reading here.But let's say for the sake of argument that you folks are right, and Obama is a "secret Muslim." If so, great. When he's elected next week, and we have a chance to see what he accomplishes over the next four years, you might finally understand that most Muslims are god-fearing, family-loving, hard-working, decent human beings.Maybe here in America you could say that about Muslims but not in the mid-east. And that's what scares people. No, I do not think Obama is or ever was a practicing Muslim. I worry more about his affiliation with the Trinity United Church of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark F. Barnes Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well my main problem with him is not whether or not he is Muslim, I feel certain he's not a practicing Muslim. Is he sympathetic to Muslims at one level or another, sure he has to be, yet that does not make him sympathetic to terrorists, main reason being, not all Muslims are Terrorists. There are Christian Terrorists as well as Buddhist's that could possibly qualify as terrorists, does that condemn the entire Christian and Buddhists, no not at all. My problem is this. He looked right into the camera and lied through his teeth about Reverend Wright, about Bill Ayers, and about this latest idiot Rashid Khalidi. He's lied about the level of his relationship with them, I feel that certain in my heart. Now if he had been a so so member of Wright's church, just showing up on big holidays like some people tend to do. No he sat right there in an interview, looked into the camera and said he attended that church for twice a month on average sometimes more, for twenty years, and he never heard any of these things that have been played over and over again. That's two thousand eighty (2080) times he sat in that church and never heard any of this crap! Am I suppose to buy that, and swallow it like tripe? Do a quick study of this guy Wright, he is a showman, and a preacher, and loves to spew the things everyone has seen over and over again. You mean to tell me he only did this when Obama wasn't in the house? I'm just not buying it. Now if he would have said that he had heard some of this, and didn't condone it, I could give him the benefit of the doubt. But he and his wife were there regularly, with their children, and this went on in a fairly regular basis, it's Wright's way of preaching. Obama is lying, I know he's lying, and nothing is going to change my mind. Anyone who believes him when he says he never heard anything controversial out of Wright in twenty years and two thousand eighty sermons minimum, is a fool in my honest opinion, or just doesn't care that he's lying. Fine that's your choice, so be it. Obama lied about his relationship with Bill Ayers period. Was Bill Ayers a terrorist at one time, sure he was. Did he get away with bad things, sure he did. Was his wife the same, sure she was. Are they terrorists now, not really, pretty harmless I think. They are way to under the microscope to try to do anything stupid. Should he be teaching in a University, well that's up to that school. I wouldn't let my kids take his classes. But my problem with this entire deal is Obama lied again, about the level of the relationship he has with this man and woman. If he had said, yes I know Bill Ayers, I've known him well for a number of years. I know what he supposedly did, and I know his views, but I don't condone what he's done, and I have told him to his face those very words. No Barrack Obama has consistently lied about knowing him and his relationship with him. And that is the issue UI have with that. It's the fact that he lied, not whether or not Bill Ayers and his wife are terrorists. I know they are, or at least were. But Obama lied period. That I have an issue with.Rashid Khalidi, has been accused of having ties to the PLO, something about the work he did in the 80"s with Wafa. Wafa is a news source for the terrorists, mainly the PLO. It's published in Palestine, and distributed throughout the region. Sad to my the public stump for the PLO. In 1991 Khalidi was an advisor to the Palestinian Chief Idiot Yasser Arafat. Is Rashid Khalidi a terrorist? Borderline, guilty by association, did he actually blow anybody up, or order it done, doubtful. Does he have controversial views on Israel and Zionism, yes he does. But I don't have and issue with him, he's not running for President. Do I have and issue with him being a professor at a University, sure I do, same as Ayers, but it has not direct effect on me or my family. However, Barrack Obama again is lying about the level of his relationship with this man. He said, he knew him, but just because his kids went to school with Khalidi's kids. You don't let your children have weekend sleep-overs and vise versa, with someone's kids you barely know. He is lying. And if he's not I also question Michelle's ability to insure the safety of her children. Everyone made such a big deal over Palin's mothering abilities, and questioned her judgment in motherhood, when she was taking here own children on tour with her, yet not one question on Michelle's judgment if she's actually sending her children over to spend the weekend with a people she barely knows! Please give some people more credit for having a little sense. Bottom line Obama is again lying through his teeth. He lies consistently about his level of relationship with ACORN. He said he represented them once in a legal issue, and that's it. When in fact he was senior legal council for ACORN for eight years, and worked with them closely for several other years in training and outside activities. Is ACORN a bad organization, certain parts of it are, but not in it's entirety. Is ACORN doing some controversial things in this election, yes they are. Did Barrack Obama give ACORN $800,000.00 for vote registering assistance, yes he did. Should have he done that, well I leave that for everyone to decide for themselves. His supporters are going to say yes, his opposers are going to say no. But did Obama lie consistently about the level of his relationship with ACORN? Yes he has, and still does. That I have an issue with. Notice I have said nothing to do with the economic crisis, I did that on purpose, because there are so many guilty parties involved in that deal, the indictment would look like the Houston Phone Book. It's stretches from the Fannie and Freddie CEO's to the consumer that signed for that loan that they knew good and well they cannot afford, and in some instances, falsified documentation to push the loan through. Guilt is so widespread, it's cannot be fully described in words. Bottom line I do not trust Obama. He's lied way too many times for me to even try. First time I heard him speak at the DNC in 2004, I was impressed, and said so in another thread here. And honestly thought that he may be a possibility some day. But since then he has lied over and over again. I've listed them above. And In my mind those accusations are beyond reproach. They are plain as the day is long. I'm not questioning his Christianity, not his involvement in the Fannie and Freddie ordeal, not questioning whether or not he's a terrorist, I feel comfortably he's not. But I do question his ability to tell the truth. And I do fear the fact that he thinks he can stand up there, lie through his teeth, and real think I am suppose to believe it. I find it insulting, and I also find it alarming. He is so candid in his book about his drug use and his escapades in High School and College. But in present time he consistently lies. He lied about all of the above, he's lied about his dealing with Tony Rezko. I just do not trust a thing he says anymore. This latest deal with the LA Times seems to have moved some leaners away from him. If there's nothing bad in that video, then Obama would insist it be released, to clear up any question to it's content. Problem is, he knows things were said at that party that will kill his Jewish Vote, and ultimately lose Florida, and don't forget the Jewish following in New York, it's huge up there. You mention the PLO and the West Bank and the Jews get on the edge of their chairs and pay attention. If Rabis come forward and condemn him, he's toast, and he knows it. I also stated in another thread, that I had an issue with McCain, and his turning down VP under Bush in 2000. I though that he wasn't being a team player, and whether or not he saw eye to eye with Bush was fine and dandy, not many people did. But he could have been in the position to be that Maverick he claims to be, and refused to play second fiddle, whether it was pride or whatever, he turned it down. McCain has made quite a few mistakes along his way, but he has owned up to them. I read the testimony on the Savings and Loan ordeal, he confessed to everything, and admitted he made a mistake. He's admitted about his personal life as well, from the failure of his first marriage and his moral failures there, as well as his moral failures in Vietnam. He admitted he signed the confession/propaganda letter to get out of being tortured to death. I cannot hold that against him. And no matter how tired you are of hearing about his 7 years in the Hanoi Hilton, myself included, you cannot question his Patriotism, and Loyalty to his fellow captors, when he refused to be released before those that were there before them. I am not so sure I cold have done that, and if you are totally honest with yourself, you would question yourself too. Does that make him Presidential? Well only when it comes to patriotism, it does, but in any other form or fashion, that's arguable. Does he have the courage to be President, I don't question that either. How will he react under pressure, well if he's the same man he was in Hanoi, I think he'll be okay. I can only hope he gets the right people around him to advise him. I'm not worried about Phil Graham being on his staff, it's not going to happen. And I am not worried about Him dropping dead. Frankly I think Obama's mortality odds are far more in jeopardy than McCain's, there are some real racist nuts in this world, and the majority of them have guns and the ability to use them. And they are just as fanatical as any terrorist in the world, it's sad, but it's true. And people have made an issue with McCain's VP pick, well I damn sure have an issue with Joe Biden, he is a snake in the grass. He so reminds me of LBJ, and I honestly think if there's a way he'd get away with it, he'd push Obama in front of a moving car, to get at the top spot. I certainly do not trust Joe Biden, none what so ever. PERIOD! I'd much rather Palin have the Nuclear codes than that idiot, that's for certain. Whether she has a clue or not, I know he does, but his version of a clue is scary. People need to understand that this position in this day and time is such a crucial thing, in such a volatile word. We have the ability to end life on this earth as we speak. One wrong move and boom see you later, nuclear holocaust. If you don't think McCain isn't fully aware of that, you are sadly mistaken. He fully understands war, and destruction. It's something you can't experience any more clearly, than being in actual combat. To pull that trigger and end a life. Until you've actually done it, you don't have a clear view of it, you only have the concept of it. Until you've been there done that, all you've done is talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memebag Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 Well my main problem with him is not whether or not he is Muslim, I feel certain he's not a practicing Muslim.All fascinating, but off topic. This thread is just about the belief that Obama is a Muslim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahiki Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Maybe here in America you could say that about Muslims but not in the mid-east. And that's what scares people. No, I do not think Obama is or ever was a practicing Muslim. I worry more about his affiliation with the Trinity United Church of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Since when do Muslims "usually" adopt names? Are you confusing Islam with the Nation of Islam?I have to agree with the 'bag here. I don't think Muslims adopt Christian names when they come to America.Granted, my experience with Muslims has been limited so far to two people:One was a person who was born in South Asia to a couple that was half Christian and half Muslim. Because he lived in that region at the time he was given a name common to the area (Muhammad something). His family moved to America when he was very young (3-5ish) and none of them changed their names.My only other Muslim exposure was going to a Muslim wedding. These were people who had lived in America for three generations now and all still had Muslim names, though a few had adopted American-sounding nicknames for the convenience of the people at the offices where they worked.I think if Obama had dropped his name for something more Chicago-sounding it would be seen a proof that he was trying to cover up a Muslim past. I haven't seen him do that yet. Going to a Muslim school in Indonesia when you're 4 doesn't make you a Muslim any more than going to a Baptist school in West Texas when your 4 makes you a Baptist. In some areas the only schools that exist are run by religions. That's just a fact in many parts of the world. And Indonesian Muslims aren't the same flavor as the 9/11 hijackers. Just like Christians who dance with snakes and drink poison in West Virginia aren't the same as Christian Methodists quietly going to church in River Oaks.I mean come on, it isn't like he left his ailing wife for a rich pretty one.Why do you hate Paul McCartney? After all he's done for the world of music!Or if you are White, would you ever slip up and say "my Black heritage"?Governor Clinton, you have a phone call in the lobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I mean come on, it isn't like he left his ailing wife for a rich pretty one.Why do you hate Paul McCartney? After all he's done for the world of music!Yeah, don't pick on McCain for that reason, either. Just because Paul's wife was, you know, dead, and McCain's first wife had the colossal poor taste to remain living... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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