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Decision 2008: McCain/Obama


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Obama is considered black because of historical context. The notion that if you have even a single black grandparent makes you black still exists.

Additionally, blacks almost always support the Democrats at an 85-90% clip. Obama really is only getting a bounce because more blacks are voting this time around. Additionally, I can't really fault them for this. It is history in the making.

Exactly! The idea was known by the term "one drop rule", which in the United States historically holds that a person with any trace of African ancestry was considered Black and subject to being held as slaves and later subject to the "Jim Crow" laws. This was a tactic in the South that strengthened and codified segregation and the disenfranchisement of Blacks.

During slavery and afterward Plessy vs Ferguson the Supreme Court Decision that legalized separate but equal, state legislatures adopted this rule to segregate Blacks. Tennessee, Texas, North Carolina, Louisiana, Florids, Kentucky, Maryland Missouri, Nebraska, Georgis and several other states had these laws and the one drop rule included people who were one, sixteenth and one thirty second Black. There were lots of half Black half white people who were held as slaves and later bound by Jim Crow. If they were light enough to pass as white, some of them did, which of course meant leaving their families behind as they dare not let the white community in which they were passing know they heritage. But others in the same family who weren't light enough to pass as white had to live as Black people. This is what happened with Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson's children. Some of them lived as Black people and some of them who were light enough to pass simply blended into the white community. The Blacker the Berry, the Sweeter the Juice tells the story of a contemporary family some of whose members remained Black and others who became white.

In my own family, my great great grandfather was half-white, his father was his owner and his mother was a slave. My great great grandfather was much whiter looking than Obama and was raised by a white man--his father--, but lived as a Black man and was subject to everything that entailed throughout his life.

The "one drop rule" and the fact that no matter how light they might have been Black people were historically considered Black is one reason that Black folks cling so strongly to the belief that half-Black people are Black. Black people didn't make the rule, but it did become part of the way Black folks consider who is Black.

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I think you and I are pretty much in agreement, it's just a matter of viewpoint. I think McCain as better knowledge of foreign affairs, but wrongly is too inclined to go to war.I think Obama doesn't have the breadth and depth of knowledge of foreign affairs of MCain, but is less likely to go to war, and I would rather the president not be eager to go to war, it should be a last resort. Ultimately, Obama will have access to excellent briefings on foreign affairs as president, which will make up for his lack of knowledge now. Really, since a prsident can get great advisors, it comes down to a matter of temperment. I think Obama has a slower fuse, a more rational temperment. I have utmost respect for McCain as an American, as a courageous veteran, and as a principled, honest, and effective senator - I think he is a much better senator than Obama - but I think Obama's temperment and outward persona are what is best for america right now.

I think Joe Biden has more foreign affairs experience that all the other three combined.

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Exactly! The idea was known by the term "one drop rule", which in the United States historically holds that a person with any trace of African ancestry was considered Black and subject to being held as slaves and later subject to the "Jim Crow" laws. This was a tactic in the South that strengthened and codified segregation and the disenfranchisement of Blacks.

During slavery and afterward Plessy vs Ferguson the Supreme Court Decision that legalized separate but equal, state legislatures adopted this rule to segregate Blacks. Tennessee, Texas, North Carolina, Louisiana, Florids, Kentucky, Maryland Missouri, Nebraska, Georgis and several other states had these laws and the one drop rule included people who were one, sixteenth and one thirty second Black. There were lots of half Black half white people who were held as slaves and later bound by Jim Crow. If they were light enough to pass as white, some of them did, which of course meant leaving their families behind as they dare not let the white community in which they were passing know they heritage. But others in the same family who weren't light enough to pass as white had to live as Black people. This is what happened with Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson's children. Some of them lived as Black people and some of them who were light enough to pass simply blended into the white community. The Blacker the Berry, the Sweeter the Juice tells the story of a contemporary family some of whose members remained Black and others who became white.

In my own family, my great great grandfather was half-white, his father was his owner and his mother was a slave. My great great grandfather was much whiter looking than Obama and was raised by a white man--his father--, but lived as a Black man and was subject to everything that entailed throughout his life.

The "one drop rule" and the fact that no matter how light they might have been Black people were historically considered Black is one reason that Black folks cling so strongly to the belief that half-Black people are Black. Black people didn't make the rule, but it did become part of the way Black folks consider who is Black.

Thanks for the info. I see what you mean. I have in my possession a letter or affidative if you will, from a lawyer that says I was "wholly white" that dates back to 1955. Found it in some old papers my mom had kept. Apparently it was needed to get into elementary school in New Orleans. I keep it just as a reminder of how screwed up things were back then.

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In my own family, my great great grandfather was half-white, his father was his owner and his mother was a slave. My great great grandfather was much whiter looking than Obama and was raised by a white man--his father--, but lived as a Black man and was subject to everything that entailed throughout his life.

The "one drop rule" and the fact that no matter how light they might have been Black people were historically considered Black is one reason that Black folks cling so strongly to the belief that half-Black people are Black. Black people didn't make the rule, but it did become part of the way Black folks consider who is Black.

I dated a girl for a long time that was almost half-way Black. Among other more distant white ancestors, she had a white (German) grandmother. And she's got lots of stories about how when she attended elementary school at Lockhart Elementary in the 3rd Ward (the one featured in This is My Home, It's Not For Sale), other kids would make fun of her, steal from her, and physically abuse her because she was a "yellowbones." They became especially harsh after her grandmother picked her up from school one day.

I really think that it has more to do with culture. She may have been black but you certainly wouldn't know to talk to her on the phone. In fact, a lot of people mistake her for asian. My own grandmother thought that she was just the sweetest Chinese girl that she'd ever met!

And in the case of Obama, blacks didn't really seem to trust or gravitate to him over Hillary Clinton at first...right up until around the time that his association with Jerimiah Wright was exposed. Only then do I think that he became "black enough", which I interpret to mean that blacks felt more like they could relate to him on a personal level.

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This is jaw dropping in its ignorance of the 1st Amendment.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/20...-fears-med.html

For a candidate for high office to believe that the 1st Amendment guarantees that political candidates can say whatever they want, but that the PRESS cannot comment on it, is galling. Has Sarah Palin never even READ the 1st Amendment? Rather than spit and sputter myself, here is an analysis of what Palin is arguing...

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/200...alin/index.html

Edited by RedScare
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The media have been more than kiind, considering Gov. Palin's refusal to meet with them, her frequent spouting of misinformation, her bizarre personal life. They have made every effort to conceal what can no longer be ignored: She's stupid.

Not naive. Not 'folksy'. She's genuinely dim-witted.

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The media have been more than kiind, considering Gov. Palin's refusal to meet with them, her frequent spouting of misinformation, her bizarre personal life. They have made every effort to conceal what can no longer be ignored: She's stupid.

Not naive. Not 'folksy'. She's genuinely dim-witted.

But, she has a gift for campaigning. She understands how to draw attention to herself, usually positive attention, but attention nonetheless. It is only when one scrutinizes what she actually SAYS (or does not say) that her intellectual laziness is shown. As long as she is smiling, winking and making witty one-liners during campaign stump speeches, she sounds fine. The sound-bite era has been good to her. The blogger era has been decidedly less kind.

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The media have been more than kiind, considering Gov. Palin's refusal to meet with them, her frequent spouting of misinformation, her bizarre personal life. They have made every effort to conceal what can no longer be ignored: She's stupid.

Not naive. Not 'folksy'. She's genuinely dim-witted.

I don't see how whether a candidate meets with the media or not should sway their degree of objectivity. What candidate doesn't spout off misinformation, twist the truth or lie? Bizarre personal life? Bizarre like the thousands of other Christians that agree with her?

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I don't see how whether a candidate meets with the media or not should sway their degree of objectivity. What candidate doesn't spout off misinformation, twist the truth or lie? Bizarre personal life? Bizarre like the thousands of other Christians that agree with her?

there are 2.1 billion christians in the world. i'm not defending palin btw. palin-extreme. obama-extreme. mccain-lame. biden-lame. there is no simple choice.

religious people

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Bizarre like the thousands of other Christians that agree with her?

Not all Christians share her beliefs. "Christian" is too broad a word to use in this context. You have to define your terms to make them meaningful.

Mao, Hitler, and Stalin were all atheists. That doesn't mean all atheist politicians are power-hungry mass murderers.

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SNL last night was good. John McCain (the real one) and Sarah Palin on "QVC" ... the shot of Cindy McCain showing off "McCain fine gold"... was good. I have a new respect for Cindy. The set of 12 town hall debate commemorative plates... all blank. McCain was a good sport about it.

Video can be found here:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/11/02/m...ampaign-on-snl/

Edited by BryanS
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Just reported on CNN that Obama's Grandmother passed away.

Here is a link: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail...other_dies.html

Obama's Grandmother Dies

By Shailagh Murray

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A tragic turn of events for Sen. Barack Obama: his ailing grandmother died today.

Here's a statement from Obama and his sister Maya Soetoro-Ng:

"It is with great sadness that we announce that our grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, has died peacefully after a battle with cancer. She was the cornerstone of our family, and a woman of extraordinary accomplishment, strength, and humility. She was the person who encouraged and allowed us to take chances. She was proud of her grandchildren and great-grandchildren and left this world with the knowledge that her impact on all of us was meaningful and enduring. Our debt to her is beyond measure.

:(

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Not all Christians share her beliefs. "Christian" is too broad a word to use in this context. You have to define your terms to make them meaningful.

Mao, Hitler, and Stalin were all atheists. That doesn't mean all atheist politicians are power-hungry mass murderers.

True, but that's why I used the word thousands instead of one that represents something bigger.

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capt.9b610315a9e84087a98f467ece41f322.obama_2008_ncjh109.jpg

Democratic presidential candidate, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., sheds tears as he talks about his grandmother, Madelyn Payne Dunham, at a rally in Charlotte, N.C., Monday, Nov. 3, 2008. Obama's grandmother, who helped raise him, died peaceably in her sleep Obama announced Monday, one day before the presidential election. She was 86. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

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GOP sues over Obama's trip to see grandmother

What incredible timing -- coming out with this on the day that the grandmother in question dies:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_140553.html

On Monday afternoon, the RNC blasted out a complaint from the California Republican Party charging that "Obama for America violated federal law by converting its campaign funds to Senator Obama's personal use" for the trip. That proposed issue for the FEC to investigate is one of five violations alleged by California Republicans in their complaint.

The complaint goes out of its way to stress that it's not condemning the trip, only the Obama campaign's method of paying for it. Stay classy GOP.

Edited by Trae
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Reason number 1 to vote for Obama:

He just called for the elimination of the BCS in college football, to be replaced by an 8 team playoff.

Now, THAT'S something we can ALL get behind! :D

Well damn just vote for me then! I said that 8 years ago. I bet you wish you all voted for me 8 years ago.

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