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Decision 2008: McCain/Obama

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From the story:

Sounds like she's out-mavericked the maverick.

When there are two mavericks on a plane, one's got to be mavericker.

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AP Report: ATF: Obama assassination plot disrupted

Ttake the skinheds bowling

Hmmmmm, seems like all the ATF did is stop a couple of knuckleheads from hurting themselves and actually saved a few highschool kids' lives in the process, but they give Obama the headline ??? Typical.

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Hmmmmm, seems like all the ATF did is stop a couple of knuckleheads from hurting themselves and actually saved a few highschool kids' lives in the process, but they give Obama the headline ??? Typical.

Why shouldn't it be a headline when a couple of crazies plot to kill a Presidential candidate? I am so sick of people whining about the media everytime the media doesn't say exactly what they happen to think.

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Hmmmmm, seems like all the ATF did is stop a couple of knuckleheads from hurting themselves and actually saved a few highschool kids' lives in the process, but they give Obama the headline ??? Typical.

crying_baby.jpg

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This is really funny...

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

"I'm a maverick!!!"

I saw that last week - took me a while to find everything, and they add something new every day ^_^

Keep clicking on the door - it's hilarious!

You might not want to watch this at work if laughter is discouraged.

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I am not affiliated with Republicans or Democrats, but we all can agree that OBAMA will win the presidency.

McCain and Palin ticket is probably the worst duo ever coming out of the Republican party. Just an opinion folks.

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Why shouldn't it be a headline when a couple of crazies plot to kill a Presidential candidate? I am so sick of people whining about the media everytime the media doesn't say exactly what they happen to think.

No, I find it sad that the media thinks Obama is more important than the other 102 kids these two whackos were planning on killing. This is exactly what is WRONG with the Demorats party, they put the needs of the ONE over the needs of the many. Thanks for proving my point sara and htownboy.

Edited by TJones

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Obama within 2 points in ARIZONA.

The 2 point deficit is within the 4.9 point margin of error, meaning the race is statistically tied in Arizona.

Had Al Gore won his home state in 2000... History would have been different.

Although in this case... McCain is probably toast, regardless.

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No, I find it sad that the media thinks Obama is more important than the other 102 kids these two whackos were planning on killing. This is exactly what is WRONG with the Demorats party, they put the needs of the ONE over the needs of the many. Thanks for proving my point sara and htownboy.

wow, you're right. I DO think that the lives of a bunch of kids aren't important! What a bad person I am. And what bad people all Democrats are. Here we are, not caring if anyone kills children. Thanks TJ for setting me straight, and providing that depth of insight.

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No, I find it sad that the media thinks Obama is more important than the other 102 kids these two whackos were planning on killing. This is exactly what is WRONG with the Demorats party, they put the needs of the ONE over the needs of the many. Thanks for proving my point sara and htownboy.

Of the many factors that go into news reporting, two stands out here: Being factual and being catchy. They reported about the 102 kids and that's how you know about it, but Obama in the headline will be more appealing probably so they trumped that up. Moreso they did plan to kill him, albeit a sketchy plan, but the media didn't lie.

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No, I find it sad that the media thinks Obama is more important than the other 102 kids these two whackos were planning on killing. This is exactly what is WRONG with the Demorats party, they put the needs of the ONE over the needs of the many. Thanks for proving my point sara and htownboy.

I have it on good authority that the Democratic party did not write those headlines, but if you have insider info that the DNC is secretly feeding headlines to copy editors, I'd love to see it.

BTW, it wasn't 102 kids. The skinheads planned to decapitate 14 of the 88 they shot. If it had been 102 kids, I am quite sure that the media would have given them equal billing. Oh, and since we are talking kids here, do you happen to know who the 102, or 88 kids are? Do you know what school it was? What, they had not picked a school? There are no kids? Only Obama is named? I doubt that matters.

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Obama within 2 points in ARIZONA.

The 2 point deficit is within the 4.9 point margin of error, meaning the race is statistically tied in Arizona.

There's an interesting article in the Telegraph on the future of the Republican party. Interesting foreign commentary. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...-the-party.html

The Arizona numbers made me go back and look at Texas, a solid Red state. But in 92 and 96, Clinton lost Texas only by 5 and 4%, respectively (according to the Rasmussin data on electoral vote).

Makes me wonder if the Obama numbers will end up closer. Right now he's at a 9% deficit.

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Watching Larry King right now. Hank William, Jr. is standing by while Palin throws out her talking points. Really disturbing visual.

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So Joe the Plumber is now an expert on foreign policy and Israel? Good God, how much more can McCain screw up his own campaign?

I'm so ready for this to all be over with.

And for the record, I stood in line just over two hours Friday afternoon to vote. Early voting in Texas is so much easier than in Georgia, where you have to fill out a stupid application that asks for the same information two or three times on the same piece of paper, to justify why you're voting early. And until this week, there was only one location per county for early voting. Anyway, it's done now and I was glad to be able to cast my vote.

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So Joe the Plumber is now an expert on foreign policy and Israel? Good God, how much more can McCain screw up his own campaign?

OMG RIGHT! I almost fell off the couch yesterday when I heard "joe the plumber" explain how sure he was Obama would not help Israel. So let's see... Joe the Plumber who isn't really a plumber and who, in the past, hasn't paid his taxes, is an expert on Obama's foreign policy.

Hey Joe... enjoy the spotlight b/c the RNC is going to drop you like yesterday's newspaper come November 5th. ^_^

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It hasn't swayed my vote, but just to stir the pot...

This morning on the local TV news they were talking about how the Los Angeles Times has a video of Obama and Ayres and this other guy all paling around at a party. The third guy is well known as a very hard-core anti-Israel/pro-Palestine guy.

For some reason the L.A. Times is sitting on the video.

The Democratic analyst that was on TV said it's just another smear campaign. The Republican analyst said it's a little too late in the campaign to try to define who Obama is.

I'll see if I can find some links so you guys can read up on it and make up your own minds.

Here we go...

McCain Accuses LA Times of Surpressing Video

The original Times article from April

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Server must be bogged down, it's a slow loader.

Glad to be back home. Made it in last night. Nice weather for our area.

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It hasn't swayed my vote, but just to stir the pot...

This morning on the local TV news they were talking about how the Los Angeles Times has a video of Obama and Ayres and this other guy all paling around at a party. The third guy is well known as a very hard-core anti-Israel/pro-Palestine guy.

For some reason the L.A. Times is sitting on the video.

The Democratic analyst that was on TV said it's just another smear campaign. The Republican analyst said it's a little too late in the campaign to try to define who Obama is.

I'll see if I can find some links so you guys can read up on it and make up your own minds.

Here we go...

McCain Accuses LA Times of Surpressing Video

The original Times article from April

I didn't see any mention of Ayers in either article. I'm not saying he's not in the video, but I don't see it there. I don't find it surprising at all that he has close allies on the Palestinian side. He has said all along that he speaks to people on both sides of an issue and is a "uniter."

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I find it hard to beleive that any American politician who values his career would abandon an Israel-friendly position.

The idea that Obama is a radical Palestininan sympathizer is a bit of a strech to me. His record in Chicago certainly shows a politician who reached out to 'the other side'. I think he understands full well the tightrope he's got to walk on that. OTOH, exactly what is wrong with attempting to understand, and reach out to both sides of the fence, so to speak? There are some pretty radical elements in the Israel lobby, that doesn't mean that taking their campaign money makes you a zionist terrorist. It goes both ways. I think much of this is driven by a desire to paint Obama as a radical terrorist sympathizer, and very little to do with actual Israeli-Palestininan issues, or on a larger scale, the middle eastern balance of power.

Republicans aren't coming out and saying it, but they would like us to connect the dots like as follows: Obama pals aorund with radical Palestinians, therefore he will turn his back on Israel, therefore setting the stage for Iranian dominance in the region, therefore selling out US interests the world over to Islamic fascists. Sorry, I don't buy that as his agenda. I just don't.

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I find it hard to beleive that any American politician who values his career would abandon an Israel-friendly position.

The idea that Obama is a radical Palestininan sympathizer is a bit of a strech to me. His record in Chicago certainly shows a politician who reached out to 'the other side'. I think he understands full well the tightrope he's got to walk on that. OTOH, exactly what is wrong with attempting to understand, and reach out to both sides of the fence, so to speak? There are some pretty radical elements in the Israel lobby, that doesn't mean that taking their campaign money makes you a zionist terrorist. It goes both ways. I think much of this is driven by a desire to paint Obama as a radical terrorist sympathizer, and very little to do with actual Israeli-Palestininan issues, or on a larger scale, the middle eastern balance of power.

Republicans aren't coming out and saying it, but they would like us to connect the dots like as follows: Obama pals aorund with radical Palestinians, therefore he will turn his back on Israel, therefore setting the stage for Iranian dominance in the region, therefore selling out US interests the world over to Islamic fascists. Sorry, I don't buy that as his agenda. I just don't.

It's called scare tactics, something Republicans have mastered in the past... this election it's actually hurting them which rules. B)

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wow, you're right. I DO think that the lives of a bunch of kids aren't important! What a bad person I am. And what bad people all Democrats are. Here we are, not caring if anyone kills children. Thanks TJ for setting me straight, and providing that depth of insight.

Apparently somebody had to think of the kids , AHEAD of your messiah sara, as you obviously don't.

Red, I was speaking of the Libs. on this forum, not the Liberal Biased media, nice try though. You and your "source" need to read a little more concise. BTW, does it MATTER who the 88 to 102 kids are Red ? Is there an acceptable type of child that is less important to you, to be murdered, over your messiah ? The skinheads said that Obama was actually an "afterthought, and would try to take a shot at him." So, was Obama scheduled to be speaking at any schools in these last two weeks ?

For the record, apparently the only REAL part they had planned out already was the renting of two white tuxes with white top hats. I don't think these two morons could actually tie their own shoes let alone plan out a Columbine.

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It's called scare tactics, something Republicans have mastered in the past...

LOL. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

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It's called scare tactics, something Republicans have mastered in the past... this election it's actually hurting them which rules. B)

Htown, would you think the same way if Timothy McVeigh and Obama were paling around together the whole night at a party ?

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I am not a fan of Obama. Inspiring speaker, yes, qualified for president, no. However, it appears that he is getting elected, I have learned to see the silver lining in his becoming president. It has nothing to do with Obama's abilities, but rather perception. For eight years now, our friends and enemies alike have seen Americans as epitomized by our president, as a go-it-alone, arrogant, ignorant, bullying cowboy, another old-guard WASP. Opposing America, anti-American sentiment has become popular, even among our allies, and therefore they resist us when we need their cooperation. Obama, by virtue of being younger, black, with an arabic name and progressive politics (which the Europeans love), will represent us as a progressive, multicultural, tolerant people. Among our allies, feeling for us will warm. Anti-American sentiment will dissipate. A willingness to cooperate, to no longer stand in our way as a matter of course, will emerge. Even within the Muslim world, feelings about Americans may settle down.

This will give us time to regroup, to finish what we need to do in Iraq and Afghanistan, repair the damage that they and the multiple financial scandals have done to our society and our economy in peace. Hopefully during that time Obama will surround himself with advisors who are more experienced than he, so that his administration makes sound decisions.

Plus, even though I think of McCain as not being a nutter extreme right winger, and thus capable of making decisions that protect individual rights, I think Obama would do an even better job on issues like gay marriage, creationism in high school biology classes, etc.

Well, that's how I cope with the fact that he is going to be elected, anyway.

Edited by Reefmonkey

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I share your same sentiment Reefmonkey but I'm not quite as optimistic. Yes I believe Obama WILL be a better diplomat and may bring us back together with many of our allies but I don't see it happening with Islamic countries. Their hatred for Jews runs way to deep. I don't think their hatred for us will ever change as long as we support Israel. You can win over political allies but not religious ones. The question is, can Obama stand up to these groups? Not can he make peace with them. I'm all for peace, but I don't believe in "turning the other cheek".

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The question is, can Obama stand up to these groups?

That reminds me of something my boss said recently. He's a big republican, and he thinks Obama won't be strong enough to stand up to our enemies. After watching the debates, I don't think McCain is strong enough. He has more experience and a better grasp of foreign affairs than Obama, a better grasp of governance in general than Obama, yet he let Obama best him in the debates. I think his age and his inability to keep his temper have conspired to make him weak, and I fear he would be that way with foreign powers.

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That reminds me of something my boss said recently. He's a big republican, and he thinks Obama won't be strong enough to stand up to our enemies. After watching the debates, I don't think McCain is strong enough. He has more experience and a better grasp of foreign affairs than Obama, a better grasp of governance in general than Obama, yet he let Obama best him in the debates. I think his age and his inability to keep his temper have conspired to make him weak, and I fear he would be that way with foreign powers.

I disagree that McCain has a better grasp of foreign affairs and a better grasp of governance in general. He has a better grasp of war as a solution to all disagreements, but not of foreign affairs. This may play well to an American populace that has grown accustomed to starting wars whenever someone disagrees with us, but as we begin to recognize the cost associated with sending our military off to confront real and perceived threats, a more effective and nuanced approach is needed. John McCain does not understand 'nuance'. 'Turn the other cheek' worked for the first guy who uttered the phrase, and it has its place in today's world as well. We cannot afford, monetarily or diplomatically, to make war with everyone who irritates us. We won't be the first nation to implode using that strategy.

The most effective president will be the one who surrounds himself with the best advisors. Obama appears to understand this concept far more than McCain.

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We cannot afford, monetarily or diplomatically, to make war with everyone who irritates us.

Do you think 9-11 was just irritating?

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Do you think 9-11 was just irritating?

That's a bogus response. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

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Hey, I agree about Iraq. No arguements there. What I meant was, do you think we should have just shrugged our shoulders and moved on? I want a President that will stand up for our country. I just don't see that with Obama. I sincerely hope that I'm wrong because just like his VP said, we have not seen the end of Isalmic terrorist and he will be tested. You don't "negotiate" with these people. They take that as a sign of weakness. Believe me, I know.

Did you miss Obama's positions on the Taliban, Afghanistan and Pakistan? He never advocated shrugging our shoulders. He advocated focusing our military efforts on the groups that helped al Qaeda and not being distracted by Iraq.

Edit: I'm surprised you haven't heard this before. Obama said this about attacking al Qaeda in Pakistan: "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will", and then McCain accused Obama of suggesting we bomb Pakistan without their permission. You don't remember that controversy?

Edited by memebag

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I disagree that McCain has a better grasp of foreign affairs and a better grasp of governance in general. He has a better grasp of war as a solution to all disagreements, but not of foreign affairs. This may play well to an American populace that has grown accustomed to starting wars whenever someone disagrees with us, but as we begin to recognize the cost associated with sending our military off to confront real and perceived threats, a more effective and nuanced approach is needed. John McCain does not understand 'nuance'. 'Turn the other cheek' worked for the first guy who uttered the phrase, and it has its place in today's world as well. We cannot afford, monetarily or diplomatically, to make war with everyone who irritates us. We won't be the first nation to implode using that strategy.

The most effective president will be the one who surrounds himself with the best advisors. Obama appears to understand this concept far more than McCain.

I think you and I are pretty much in agreement, it's just a matter of viewpoint. I think McCain as better knowledge of foreign affairs, but wrongly is too inclined to go to war.I think Obama doesn't have the breadth and depth of knowledge of foreign affairs of MCain, but is less likely to go to war, and I would rather the president not be eager to go to war, it should be a last resort. Ultimately, Obama will have access to excellent briefings on foreign affairs as president, which will make up for his lack of knowledge now. Really, since a prsident can get great advisors, it comes down to a matter of temperment. I think Obama has a slower fuse, a more rational temperment. I have utmost respect for McCain as an American, as a courageous veteran, and as a principled, honest, and effective senator - I think he is a much better senator than Obama - but I think Obama's temperment and outward persona are what is best for america right now.

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The most effective president will be the one who surrounds himself with the best advisors. Obama appears to understand this concept far more than McCain.

He can talk the talk but can he walk the walk? Obama may have you thinking he has all the right answers but I can tell you from experience that talk is cheap. Actions speak words and he will be faced with with some MAJOR decisions. I can only hope you are right.

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He can talk the talk but can he walk the walk? Obama may have you thinking he has all the right answers but I can tell you from experience that talk is cheap. Actions speak words and he will be faced with with some MAJOR decisions. I can only hope you are right.

Talk is indeed cheap. I can only say this about my decision to vote the way I did. I believe we have made some major changes in the way we run our country over the last few decades, and that those changes are unsustainable. These changes run the gamut from encouraging reckless borrowing by consumers and government, to encouraging short term profits over long-term stability, to denigrating and decimating our manufacturing base in favor of service sector jobs, to a general view of government as a target for plunder as opposed to the provider of services that are not better provided by industry, to a general war-mongering mindset. I believe that we need a major reorginization of our national priorities as a nation. I believe that it not only OK but advisable for us to encourage companies to build their products here in the US, and to provide incentives to do so. Since health care is a major cost of doing business, we need to explore ways to keep the citizens healthy while not bankrupting our corporations in the process. I believe that our military should NEVER be used to further our economic interests. I believe that while capitalism is good, allowing Wall Street executives to turn our financial markets into casinos is bad, and should be outlawed.

I believe education, and innovative thought is good, and should be encouraged. I also believe working with one's hands is good, and should ALSO be encouraged. I believe that we should rebuild our PUBLIC education system in a way that encourages those with the intelligence and drive to succeed in research, engineering and teaching are encouraged to go to college, and those with manual and technical skills should be trained to make a decent living. I believe that the wealthy can take care of themselves and do not need gifts from the government. It is the 290 million people who are NOT wealthy who should be assisted in becoming productive members of our society.

I believe that government assistance should not be abolished, yet should not be a handout. It should have a purpose. That purpose should be to help those who are less fortunate or less capable to help themselves. I believe the elderly, who have given to their country their entire lives, should be allowed to live their final years in relative comfort. As the populace lives longer, old age begins later.

These are basic yet fundamental issues. We must at the same time adjust our programs for changing demographics while sharpening their focus. We must re-instill a belief and a demand that government should improve our lives, not take from it. And, while we are demanding these things, we must make the commitment to pay for it.

In making this self assessment of where we are failing as a country and as a society, where our government is failing and what it can and should be, I looked at the available candidates, and whether I believed each candidate was capable or willing to begin that conversation. While none are perfect, and many of my concerns have not been addressed by ANY of the candidates, I voted for the one I believe is most capable of addressing the issues I feel are most important to our future as a nation. I hope I voted correctly, and I hopr that person addresses those issues. As a voter, this is the most that I can do.

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Six more days until daylight...

John McCain's campaign, plan for America:

meteorcrater.jpeg

...let's keep it in Arizona.

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Obama Daily Show Interview

Obama admits that he is undergoing therapy to make sure that his white half does not vote against himself due to the 'Bradley Effect'.

LOL!!

Yo, for shizzle, where does everyone plan on watching the election results on Tuesday? Anyone watching outside their homes? (Particularly moderate-minded crowds)?

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Obama Daily Show Interview

Obama admits that he is undergoing therapy to make sure that his white half does not vote against himself due to the 'Bradley Effect'.

OMG that interview was HILARIOUS... I love how Obama has such an awsome sense of humor!

run_liberal_run.jpg

LOL!!

Yo, for shizzle, where does everyone plan on watching the election results on Tuesday? Anyone watching outside their homes? (Particularly moderate-minded crowds)?

Probably at home... CNN High Definition on our Plasma TV.... got some champaign to celebrate and everything!

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That was hilarious and kudo's to Obama for having such a great sense of humor.

I still don't get this whole Obama African-American thing. He's half white, was raised by a white person and went to Harvard. In my book he's more white than black. I just don't get this "he's a black person so I'm not voting for him" thing that some whites have. Nor do I get the "he's black, that's why I'm voting for him" thing that blacks have. I think if those are ANYONES reason to vote than they should not be able to. Hopefully the two will cancel each other out.

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That was hilarious and kudo's to Obama for having such a great sense of humor.

I still don't get this whole Obama African-American thing. He's half white, was raised by a white person and went to Harvard. In my book he's more white than black. I just don't get this "he's a black person so I'm not voting for him" thing that some whites have. Nor do I get the "he's black, that's why I'm voting for him" thing that blacks have. I think if those are ANYONES reason to vote than they should not be able to. Hopefully the two will cancel each other out.

Obama is considered black because of historical context. The notion that if you have even a single black grandparent makes you black still exists.

Additionally, blacks almost always support the Democrats at an 85-90% clip. Obama really is only getting a bounce because more blacks are voting this time around. Additionally, I can't really fault them for this. It is history in the making.

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Just voted. It was a cleansing experience. I hope our country gets it right this time.

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