Permanent homeland military ops

[dbigtex56]

Those who haven't learned from history are doomed to repeat it. What has happened in other countries can happen here, if we are not vigilant about maintaining our freedom.

How peculiar that the word conspiracy has become disreputable. One need look no further than the tobacco industry for convincing evidence that people will use deception and undue influence to make a buck.

And for those who distrust "the liberal media", yet exhibit a child-like faith in their reports if they echo the sentiments of our government - "Remember the Maine!"

[editor]

The logical conclusion of having our military do "crowd control" here is civilian slaughter en masse.

I'm not sure that is the logical conclusion. Please explain your logic here. Then explain to us what the American military would gain by slaughtering civilians en masse.

[memebag]

I'm not sure that is the logical conclusion. Please explain your logic here. Then explain to us what the American military would gain by slaughtering civilians en masse.

That's sort of a silly question. The Chinese military didn't gain anything by slaughtering Chinese citizens en masse; the Chinese government did.

Why did you introduce the notion of "conspiracy" to this thread? I'm aware of hundreds of instances of governments turning their armies against their citizens, and conspiracy was never a factor.

[Disastro]

clearly.

The flow of cheap credit is far more important than elected officials with no limits on their authority to deploy Humvees down your street as if this were Baghdad.

*I* care!

This is a gross abuse of power.

When will the people get fed up and do what must be done?

Society as we know it is about to change...and not for the better! Plus, we should all be cautious of another enemy attack on US soil...Russia and it's puppets are on the march.

There is an online rumour going around about something ominous coming Oct 7th.

Then again, such rumours have gone around before...so, take it with a grain of salt.

[N Judah]

I'm not sure that is the logical conclusion. Please explain your logic here. Then explain to us what the American military would gain by slaughtering civilians en masse.

In Europe, military-looking people guarding soft targets seems reasonable. However,

If American military:European military::American cops:European cops then I am really not looking forward to this.

[TheNiche]

That's sort of a silly question. The Chinese military didn't gain anything by slaughtering Chinese citizens en masse; the Chinese government did.

Why did you introduce the notion of "conspiracy" to this thread? I'm aware of hundreds of instances of governments turning their armies against their citizens, and conspiracy was never a factor.

And somehow changing the official status of a combat brigade stationed domestically makes it more ready and capable of riot control than are the hundreds of thousands of other domestically-stationed armed forces? I'm sorry, but this just doesn't qualify as meaningful news. If the government wants to turn our military back upon us, they're going to need more than one brigade and they can accomplish it in short order whether a brigade is officially 'on tour' here or not.

I welcome discussion about conspiracy because frankly I agree that there are people capable of it. But I don't really consider this specific news item to be evidence of one, much less a slippery slope line of argument.

What concerns me far far more than this news item is that I had to fill out several pages of paperwork at the gun show yesterday before buying a new shotgun. It'll be submitted to the ATF, and now I'll be in some database as the owner of that firearm. That database would be a definite force multiplier in favor of the government if ever there were adequate reason for an armed insurgency. (Incidentally, I don't suppose anyone visited Discovery Green yesterday. It must've been an interesting sight for the folks that weren't aware of the gun show going on, to see folks like me openly toting rifles and shotguns through the park.)

[TJones]

Uh, this is a combat brigade. You know, the kind that shoot people, not the kind that help people.

Who's claiming otherwise?

But there have been instances where people didn't blab for years, and there could be instances where no one has yet blabbed. What makes you think there aren't?

Previous incidents of conspiracies? There are too many to number. Are you saying that humans are incapable of conspiring? I don't follow.

Hmmm, so is it your belief that this Brigade is being bought home to gear up for the possible Obama inauguration ?

There has also been instances where people blabbed sooner than later and it didn't matter because the person being blabbed about was of no consequence. i.e. Plame incident.

I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll, and I will never tell. I also forced Teddy off the bridge into Chappaqudick.

CRUNCH, you and meme need to quit watching Alex Jones on public access.

[memebag]

Hmmm, so is it your belief that this Brigade is being bought home to gear up for the possible Obama inauguration ?

Nope.

[KinkaidAlum]

Sorry, but it's not like this one act stands alone. People need to WAKE UP and realize what the Patriot Act and the Patriot Act Part II Elecrtic Shock Bugaloo have done to our Constitution.

This alone should be scary enough but even the Patriot Act doesn't stand alone. The Pat Act goes hand-n-hand with the total disregard for the Federal Justice Department and the U.S. Attorney General's Office under this Administration. Cronies and inept "lawyers" with no Constitutional Law experience have been placed in charge and have purged nearly all opponents from office politicizing a branch of government that should NEVER be under Party rule.

Sure, you might say you will never be defined as a "suspected terrorist" by the U.S. attorney general and that might well be true. But, will union organizers get labled as such? 2nd Amendment supporters? AIDS activists? Socialist Pary members? Peace activists? Educators with differing points of view?

[memebag]

Sure, you might say you will never be defined as a "suspected terrorist" by the U.S. attorney general and that might well be true. But, will union organizers get labled as such? 2nd Amendment supporters? AIDS activists? Socialist Pary members? Peace activists? Educators with differing points of view?

Ayn Rand readers?

[RedScare]

What concerns me far far more than this news item is that I had to fill out several pages of paperwork at the gun show yesterday before buying a new shotgun. It'll be submitted to the ATF, and now I'll be in some database as the owner of that firearm. That database would be a definite force multiplier in favor of the government if ever there were adequate reason for an armed insurgency. (Incidentally, I don't suppose anyone visited Discovery Green yesterday. It must've been an interesting sight for the folks that weren't aware of the gun show going on, to see folks like me openly toting rifles and shotguns through the park.)

Classic right wing gun argument. You don't care that the government listens in on your phone calls and enters your home without warrants, and is creating databases that collect every banking transaction you ever make, THEN you complain that ATF has your name. I got news for you. They merely ADDED that info to your file. You and your fellow paramilitary aficionados are fiddling while Rome burns.

[houstonmacbro]

Hmmm, so is it your belief that this Brigade is being bought home to gear up for the possible Obama inauguration ?

There has also been instances where people blabbed sooner than later and it didn't matter because the person being blabbed about was of no consequence. i.e. Plame incident.

I was the second gunman on the grassy knoll, and I will never tell. I also forced Teddy off the bridge into Chappaqudick.

CRUNCH, you and meme need to quit watching Alex Jones on public access.

Just because it's outside of the mainstream doesn't mean it's not real or true. I have gotten a lot of good information from listening to Coast to Coast AM, and some of it (most of it) is kookie, late night fun about aliens, disappearances of bees, 2012, but a lot of stuff presented is really interesting.

I think what gets overshadowed is that some of their guests really do seem to know about what seems to be coming true or coming to light.

[TheNiche]

Classic right wing gun argument. You don't care that the government listens in on your phone calls and enters your home without warrants, and is creating databases that collect every banking transaction you ever make, THEN you complain that ATF has your name. I got news for you. They merely ADDED that info to your file. You and your fellow paramilitary aficionados are fiddling while Rome burns.

I don't care that the military stations brigades domestically because for all practical purposes it really isn't very consequential. I didn't say anything about phone calls, warrantless search or seizure, or banking databases. I have no paramilitary afficianados. And the shotgun I bought was an inexpensive pump-action, very low-profile and very tame as compared to what else was available. I think it was you who had given the advice of not owning something that a jury thinks looks meanacing. ...so thank you for the prudent advice, you ass.

[RedScare]

Wow, so giving prudent advice makes me an ass?

Actually, I would agree that an ATF file is just one more database that our friendly protectors keep on us, and that concerned citizens should rail against. I believe that responsible gun ownership, like responsible automobile ownership, can be accomplished by issuing a gun license certifying knowledge of proper gun use and lack of a violent record. Using this method, the government should have no interest in how many guns you own, merely that you know how to handle them safely. Alas, just as the DoD wants to know what you use your debit card to purchase, the ATF wants to know what and how many guns you purchase. We should demand that they stop BOTH practices.

[TheNiche]

Wow, so giving prudent advice makes me an ass?

No, it was the presumptive counterargument.

Alas, just as the DoD wants to know what you use your debit card to purchase, the ATF wants to know what and how many guns you purchase. We should demand that they stop BOTH practices.

I concur and also think that your suggestion of issuing a gun license is a really creative and effective solution! ...but just to stay on topic, I still don't see the problem with this brigade being stationed domestically.

[RedScare]

I concur and also think that your suggestion of issuing a gun license is a really creative and effective solution! ...but just to stay on topic, I still don't see the problem with this brigade being stationed domestically.

Honestly, the gross politicizing of the Justice Department by the Bush Administration through Alberto Gonzales is a FAR greater threat to our republic than stationing a combat brigade on US soil. Any move a military brigade makes will be highly visible. Justice, on the other hand, can go about its job in plain sight without drawing undue attention.

[TheNiche]

Honestly, the gross politicizing of the Justice Department by the Bush Administration through Alberto Gonzales is a FAR greater threat to our republic than stationing a combat brigade on US soil. Any move a military brigade makes will be highly visible. Justice, on the other hand, can go about its job in plain sight without drawing undue attention.

Once again, I don't disagree. And once again, I am befuddled as to why anybody is really concerned about the brigade.

[N Judah]

Sorry, but it's not like this one act stands alone. People need to WAKE UP and realize what the Patriot Act and the Patriot Act Part II Elecrtic Shock Bugaloo have done to our Constitution.

This alone should be scary enough but even the Patriot Act doesn't stand alone. The Pat Act goes hand-n-hand with the total disregard for the Federal Justice Department and the U.S. Attorney General's Office under this Administration. Cronies and inept "lawyers" with no Constitutional Law experience have been placed in charge and have purged nearly all opponents from office politicizing a branch of government that should NEVER be under Party rule.

It's been five years...if people haven't woken up by now they never will. You're either preaching to the choir or giving the control freak neocon apologists fodder for their dualistic worldview.

[KinkaidAlum]

Once again, I don't disagree. And once again, I am befuddled as to why anybody is really concerned about the brigade.

Because they are all related. They are all happening under this administration. One thing on its own might not be cause for alarm but grouping them all together should certainly make you start to wonder.

I am just glad that an odd-ball coalition of fiscal conservatives and social justice seeking Democrats killed the Wall Street bailout. I know it's a different topic, but I link the rise of corporate power closely with the erosion of our civil rights.

I just wish we'd see a Kucinich/Paul ticket for president. Would make the debates more interesting.

[memebag]

Once again, I don't disagree. And once again, I am befuddled as to why anybody is really concerned about the brigade.

And I don't understand why anybody isn't at least a little concerned about this. It's the first time an active US combat unit has been assigned to the US. We trained them to kill foreign soldiers. Why are they here?

[TheNiche]

Because they are all related. They are all happening under this administration. One thing on its own might not be cause for alarm but grouping them all together should certainly make you start to wonder.

No. This action (the one about which this thread was created) lacks practicality as it might relate to implementing marshal law on any kind of scale or regularity as it might be considered a meaningful threat to civil liberties. It is only one brigade (1,500 to 4,000 troops). For a basis of comparison, it took nearly 500,000 troops to suck at keeping the peace in a post-war Iraq, a country with less than a tenth the population and less than a twentieth of the land area of the United States.

I don't pretend to know whether the domestic deployment is going to be effective at accomplishing whatever is their mission, or whether that mission is well-defined or makes sense, but this news just does not warrant conspiracy theorizing. Really, it doesn't.

[TheNiche]

And I don't understand why anybody isn't at least a little concerned about this. It's the first time an active US combat unit has been assigned to the US.

No it isn't.

The Japanese invaded the Alutian Islands in WW2; we had to invade and retake our own territory in a very bloody battle.

Before that there was the "Bonus Army", probably the most aggregious case of military-led persecution that I can think of in the whole of American history...outside of the Civil War & Reconstruction.

Before that, Gen. Pershing was deployed to Texas (know your own state history, dammit!) to put a stop to cross-border raids by Poncho Villa.

Before that, we had the Indian Wars.

Before that was Reconstruction.

Before that was the Civil War.

Before that was the War of 1812.

Before that was Shay's Rebellion and the Whiskey Rebellion (can't remember in which order).

Before that was the American Revolution.

[memebag]

No it isn't.

Go tell the Army. Or at least the Army Times:

But this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities.

[TheNiche]

You said:

It's the first time an active US combat unit has been assigned to the US.

The Army said:

...this new mission marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002...

You should read things more carefully before you post.

[memebag]

You should read things more carefully before you post.

I'm pretty sure I read that right. NORTHCOM is the Unified Combatant Command that encompasses the US.

[TheNiche]

I'm pretty sure I read that right. NORTHCOM is the Unified Combatant Command that encompasses the US.

You said:

It's the first time an active US combat unit has been assigned to the US.

According to the NORTHCOM website, they encompass an area that includes the continental United States, Alaska, Canada, and Mexico, waters out to 500 nautical miles, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Straights of Florida. NORTHCOM does not include our Caribbean territories, Hawaii, or our Pacific territories.

NORTHCOM includes Canada and Mexico but not certain parts of the US. And it was established in 2002, not 1776.

NORTHCOM is not the US. Therefore your earlier statement was wrong.

Give up.

EDIT: Now can someone (with reading comprehension skills) please explain to me why this is scary?

[KinkaidAlum]

Um, maybe it is scary because the Japanese haven't invaded Key West, Poncho Villa isn't robbing people in LaJoya, and the only Native Americans we are currently fighting are valets at the Mohegan Sun?

You don't have to live in a shed in Montana to think this sets a bad precedent.

[TheNiche]

Um, maybe it is scary because the Japanese haven't invaded Key West, Poncho Villa isn't robbing people in LaJoya, and the only Native Americans we are currently fighting are valets at the Mohegan Sun?

You don't have to live in a shed in Montana to think this sets a bad precedent.

But a few pissed off Muslims killed a lot of folks. That seems like reason enough. It is certainly a more pressing concern than border raids.

And I don't see it as a necessarily bad precedent. I'm not even clear that it really is all that much of a precedent-setting event in the first place. Nor do I see it necessarily as a slippery slope.

If it were ten times the number, maybe even closer to a hundred times the number of troops, that would start to genuinely concern me.

[memebag]

But a few pissed off Muslims killed a lot of folks.

But what can an Army combat brigade do about that?

Were opposed to the Posse Comitatus and Insurrection acts?

[TheNiche]

But what can an Army combat brigade do about that?

Were opposed to the Posse Comitatus and Insurrection acts?

Per their website:

USNORTHCOM