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Remember that population center is a mathematical calculation. Houston's population is lopsided with more emphasis on the west and north. This would pull the center to probaly the area you mentioned.

Some developers may use this to locate their commercial in an area that can be acess the most people. With the traffic on the Beltay and Katy, the Memorial City location seems like a prime location.

The same concept developed the Galleria Area. Uptown was population center when it began its growth considering most of the population stretched from downtown to Sharpstown. This would put the Galleria in center.

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I think it is reasonable to say that the Katy Freeway expansion empowered this project to happen. With the existing facility, I don't think the Memorial project would have moved foward due to chronic congestion and accessibility issues.

Let's face it, everyone doesn't want to be downtown and it is great for people to have choices. Overall, I think this is the first vindication of the Katy Freeway as an economic development tool, and I'm sure more will come.

Plus, just look at it from a pure economic standpoint. You have the Memorial Villages with plenty of free money to spend a block away basically. Plus, all other areas from the Beltway to West Houston seem to be seeing strides in appraised values. This is true along the Memorial drive corridor to Addicks.

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Ahh finally I find out what this project was. I saw it fenced off while driving on the access road next to it. It really interested me because the tract I saw was so huge!

Im glad something good is coming out of it rather than a huge box store.

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I don't know why anyone would be surprised about this news or, further, be that upset about it. Houston has a pattern of doing this, it's kinda what makes us so "atypical" from any other major city.

Memorial City and the Town & Country area have been establishing/re-inventing themselves for a long time in order to be ready for this kind of growth. I don't think Houston is ever going to have the "City Center" that most metropolitan areas do, for the simple reason that it never has before; and people here, for the most part, have been okay with that. Granted, it would be nice to see Downtown and Midtown get the credit they deserve and really begin to hop. I think it is happening but it is just really super slow.

A recent Urban Land Institute study indicated a resurgence in higher-density urban living provided certain amenities are addressed for the consumer. These include:

Growing popularity of an urban lifestyle for both the empty nester AND the young professional.

A saturation of no-personality, homogenous retail in the suburbs.

The growing appeal of pedestrian-friendly, street-front retail among consumers.

A decline in city crime.

A desire to have varied amenities clustered in a tight, architecturally controlled project that answer consumers

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I am SO GLAD this is happening! I don't live anywhere near Memorial City Mall but occassionally I go there and when something that makes the city look more beautiful I am all for it!

I am just glad its not (as someone said "another box Store")

I mean walkways, businesses, retails, a city within a city (kinda like Bellaire) this is EXCITING! :)

It could have been the other way around and the area could have gone downhill. If they improve Westwood areas/Sharpstown I am all up for that too.

After all look at West Oaks mall. It WAS pathetic and more and more shoppers are going there because the mall is beautiful (even though more and more stores can't afford the rent) :(

We have some more upper class stores in there now. Taco Cabana is leaving West Oaks and now enters "Dairy Queen", Carlton cards is gone but here comes another "oh great" -sarcastically saying- clothes store. Kay-bee is now gone as well (I don't know what is in its place)

Look at the area around West Oaks and its developed too.

Instead of seeing something to front upon, look at the good side of it and see that it increased jobs, it makes that area even more beautiful and more places to go shop! :)

People around Memorial (well some people) have money and will be happy to spend it in the memorial city area. :)

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..then please do. All you do is delicate flower & moan about sprawl. :rolleyes: Its old, and no one cares. So let it go, or make good on your thread and move.. to Dallas. :o

Dallas? YAY! Even more sprawl!

My guess is that they're priming themselves to be a stop on the commuter/heavy rail that will be coming down the pike at some point in the future.

And increase the I-10 R.O.W. to 700'? Yeah, right.

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BUT..where will they get the Right of Way land from? They already spent several billion dollars buying out homes and businesses for the I-10 expansion, and a commuter rail tract would require an additional R.O.W. of at least 25' or more, so they might have to buy out waaay too many tracts for a transit system that will barely handle 1/10th of the traffic that I-10 can carry. I don't think rail is much of an option for this area.

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I'm mixed about this development. I think it's going to be fantastic for the area and for the New Urbanist movement in Houston. But, like many have said, this takes some steam away from inner city projects, especially in downtown.

All of this urban retail development outside of the urban core might really be doing an injustice to the city. I believe our shopping and gathering center should be centralized. Downtown is that place. It needs to be babied for a little while until it gets nursed back to health, but before long it could be THE place for everyone to go. It has the urban infrastructure unlike Memorial City. It is home to our sports teams, it's where the city began, it's where one can walk around easily. But, big "urban" projects in the 'burbs steal some of the momentum. We can only have so much retail in the city. If it's all focused on the fringes, we'll just continue to make it harder and harder to succeed downtown.

On another note, no matter how nice this project is, the San Felipe/Post Oak project will be nicer. The types of tenants and design should be first-rate (not to mention Ed Wulfe is the MAN). Not that Memorial City won't get its share of good tenants and good design, but, believe me, there's no place like San Felipe/Post Oak.

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Sprawl, sprawl, sprawl. Who the hell cares. People going to attend any new developments in or out the city. I think y'all need to read that article was on about sprawl in other cities, and around the world (somewhere on this site). Sprawl is going to continue to grow no matter what, so get use to it. I'm not complaining, cause I'm not a complainer like some people are.

I'll be there when it's get built.

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I think it would be naive to believe that sprawl can be avoided given the increase in population and the quantity of available land. Dense urban centers came into being out of necessity because those cities had no choice. The history of many of the high-density cities that we see today, such as those in NE United States and Europe, predates the advent of automobile. It was therefore only logical to construct buildings in close proximity. Over time, those cities developed culture in which residents got accustomed to street life and high-density living. Moreover, the geographical sizes of some of those cities were limited by the amount of available land and geographical barriers. Even then, some such cities continued to expand in size to accommodate increasing population.

In contrast, Houston is a relatively new city that has experienced tremendous growth. There is plenty of land available, and there are no geographical barriers except in the east. Finally, it has no zoning laws to create artificial scarcity of land for specific uses. Sprawl is therefore inevitable.

Some people believe that anything outside of the loop is sprawl. However, would it be reasonable to believe that all of 6 millions people who reside in Houston could live inside the loop, that is, within an area of 100 sq miles? That amounts to 60,000 people per square mile! Do you really expect them to give up single-family homes to live in apartments just so that they can live inside the loop when there is so much land available nearby unlike, say, Hong Kong where residents have no other choice?

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Remember that population center is a mathematical calculation.  Houston's population is lopsided with more emphasis on the west and north.  This would pull the center to probaly the area you mentioned.

A mathematical calculation? Well what else did you think they would use? Of course it's a mathematical calculation. I have no idea why those foolish humans would even consider moving out there.

Downtown > *

And yes I am seriously thinking of transferring out of this city. I'm tired of all this nonsense.

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BUT..where will they get the Right of Way land from?  They already spent several billion dollars buying out homes and businesses for the I-10 expansion, and a commuter rail tract would require an additional R.O.W. of at least 25' or more, so they might have to buy out waaay too many tracts for a transit system that will barely handle 1/10th of the traffic that I-10 can carry.  I don't think rail is much of an option for this area.

My understanding was that the contraflow toll lanes that are soon to be in the middle of I-10 would eventually be turned into rail.

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Funny how no one ever mentions freeways as the cause of sprawl. Without freeways, no one would want to live so far away.

Anyone who's lived here for a decent amount of time has probably noticed that the freeways come first, and then the houses. The freeways aren't built to meet demand, but rather create it (ironically the very technique that the anti-rail reactionaries disingenuously accuse rail proponents of using). If Houston were truly an organic city, we wouldn't be so spread out, but we wouldn't be crowded like the pre-car cities.

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"My guess is that they're priming themselves to be a stop on the commuter/heavy rail that will be coming down the pike at some point in the future." (quote, N Judah)

i hope your guess is correct. i am always optimistic when developments like this are optioned, as the growth signals health for our city. my biggest concern is and has always been growing in leaps and bounds without taking transportation and traffic into concern. i felt this way back in the 80's with the explosion of development of I45 past 1960. living in the northline area and working downtown, the drive home that used to be around 15 minutes grew to 1hr as all the cars fought their way in traffic to the burbs, often. as i would exit at tidwell i would look at the freeway and as far as i could see cars were bumper to bumper. a friend i worked with who lived out in spring told me the freeway was like that for her all the way home. i wondered, what were these developers thinking? how could they build thousands of homes without any regard to the commute? of course the answer was money. build it quick, make a buck, and hey, who can blame you, you're meeting the demand? eventually the park & rides were built and companies who wanted to attract workers started van pool programs, but it always seemed to me that provisions could have been made early in the planning stages to account for the traffic.

now i'm wondering about this development. i did not hear any mention of getting together with metro to upgrade or even improve the bus routes to this area and the ones that are in place suck. of course the clientele they desire may not be the bus riding kind, but that speaks volumes about everything that is wrong with the mentality of most developers. in a perfect world, developers would incorporate the best aspects of public transportation into their plans, like rail, but also trolleys, circulators and they would all be compatible to the bus system. this would ensure the most possible foot traffic and if that were the goal it could reduce the need for parking garages and possibly eliminate surface parking which is a supreme waste of land, not to mention an eyesore. i know it is not their responsibility, but in the long run if more developers would get involved with the push for rail it would have to make an impact.

deb martin

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"Funny how no one ever mentions freeways as the cause of sprawl. Without freeways, no one would want to live so far away.

Anyone who's lived here for a decent amount of time has probably noticed that the freeways come first, and then the houses." (quote, N Judah)

that may be the case now, but not in the past. i've lived here all of my 40 years and just like i described in my post above, the freeways were in place and homes and apartments popped up in almost every direction. I45 north (pre-woodlands) 59north (pre-kingwood) 290 (pre-compaq) and I-10 (pre-cinco ranch) are all examples. this was before any beltway or toll road, so i understand what you are saying about what is going on now.

deb martin

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My understanding was that the contraflow toll lanes that are soon to be in the middle of I-10 would eventually be turned into rail.

Well... that's a remote possibility at some point in the future. As part of some ridiculous compromise between METRO, TxDOT, and the HCTRA, the overpasses for the HOT lanes on the new Katy Freeway are being built to be able to withstand the weight of passenger rail cars should a line be built at some point in the future. This is adding expense to the overall project, and needlessly so. Why? What are the odds that the HCTRA will ever give up the cash cow those lanes are destined to become to METRO for a rail line? NONE! The only way a rail line could be built in the corridor now would be to elevate it over the freeway or frontage roads or to expand the freeway ROW. Both will be extremely expensive to do, and will face great opposition from land owners along the freeway corridor.

In any case, rail in the Katy Freeway corridor is decades away. If such a line is ever built (which I would hope it eventually is), I'm sure a stop at Gessner for Memorial City will be part of the deal regardless of whether this development is built or not. There's already a major mall and hospital there, Gessner is a major north-south street through that part of town that METRO has already identified as a route for its new "Signature Express" service that is part of the METRO Solutions plan, and the area is already served by at least five bus routes. A rail stop would obviously be placed there if the line is ever built because the area is a major destination for many purposes.

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I'm not even sure why sprawl is an issue.  This is Memorial City reinventing what's already there.  There IS no sprawl!

Thank you! I'm not a big fan of ever expanding sprawl, but please, that area of the city has been heavily developed since the early 1960s!! If we're going to talk about sprawl, let's keep it to discussions of areas where there is no development now and development is planned. This isn't even outside the beltway!

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Well... that's a remote possibility at some point in the future. As part of some ridiculous compromise between METRO, TxDOT, and the HCTRA, the overpasses for the HOT lanes on the new Katy Freeway are being built to be able to withstand the weight of passenger rail cars should a line be built at some point in the future. This is adding expense to the overall project, and needlessly so. Why? What are the odds that the HCTRA will ever give up the cash cow those lanes are destined to become to METRO for a rail line? NONE! The only way a rail line could be built in the corridor now would be to elevate it over the freeway or frontage roads or to expand the freeway ROW. Both will be extremely expensive to do, and will face great opposition from land owners along the freeway corridor.

My understanding - and this may be completely wrong - was that HCTRA wouldn't be the ones operating the toll lanes down the center of I 10. Rather, as they were not toll lanes but actually HOV lanes that just happened to charge a toll, they would be owned and operated by Metro. But I'm sure you know much more about this than I do -- I guess I'll just have to double check my sources on this one.

In any case, rail in the Katy Freeway corridor is decades away. If such a line is ever built (which I would hope it eventually is), I'm sure a stop at Gessner for Memorial City will be part of the deal regardless of whether this development is built or not. There's already a major mall and hospital there, Gessner is a major north-south street through that part of town that METRO has already identified as a route for its new "Signature Express" service that is part of the METRO Solutions plan, and the area is already served by at least five bus routes. A rail stop would obviously be placed there if the line is ever built because the area is a major destination for many purposes.

Good points. I definitely see what you're saying.

Anyway, at any rate, this new development is really win win. If rail doesn't come through there for a while, they still have attractive mixed use stuff for everyone to enjoy. But if/when rail comes through, at least they've got a head start. Then they can say that rail is justified by serving existing development, rather than basing the whole thing on the idea that it will spur develoment at some point in the future.

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No, HCTRA is paying TxDOT for those toll lanes. That's why the entire Katy project was accelerated. METRO isn't in the toll road business; HCTRA is. METRO's buses will be able to use the toll lanes for free, as will certain high occupancy private vehicles and van and carpools during rush hour. But the lanes will be operated by the HCTRA, not METRO.

See the Katy Freeway Toll Road web page for more information on how these lanes will work.

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The level of stupidity that these people display is astounding and quite frankly I'm considering moving out of this place.
You live in the mall?

Seriously, these developers own the mall and just poured millions into upgrading it. Why would they want to develop something away from it that wouldn't benefit it?

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