NObama: Marxist Ideology in America?

[Toggle3]

I read this article and wondered if the true reason Obama is being supported is simply racism. It makes no sense to me on any level that this guy, with associations with Bill Ayers (the domestic terrorist who so proudly claimed he was guilty but free) and his Marxist philosophy is being supported by the majority of Blacks in America. Are all Blacks so left-leaning or is it racism?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/oba...ot_be_forg.html

[Disastro]

I read this article and wondered if the true reason Obama is being supported is simply racism. It makes no sense to me on any level that this guy, with associations with Bill Ayers (the domestic terrorist who so proudly claimed he was guilty but free) and his Marxist philosophy is being supported by the majority of Blacks in America. Are all Blacks so left-leaning or is it racism?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/oba...ot_be_forg.html

As I've said...Obama is a dangerous person -- not because of skin color but because of how his MIND works and what he believes in. What Obama believes in is in conflict with what the founding fathers intended and it's a RADICAL ideology that he believes in. He has said he enjoyed hanging out with Marxists in the past -- and man, it shows! Look at the people who he has associated with and those around the world who endorse him -- Hezbollah, Hamas, Amadinejad of Iran, Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua, Hugo Chavez, Putin...did I miss anyone?

Obama's history and background is SOAKED in Marxism. Redistribution of wealth, pandering to other dangerous world leaders, unilateral nuclear disarmament, unlimited abortion and ILLEGAL immigration, snide remarks about gun owners and talk radio (which cuts to the core of freedom of speech), etc. But...that doesn't seem to matter to his loyal minions who are brainwashed with the "hope and change" mantra.

I do believe in reverse racism. And I do believe this IS the primary factor in Obama's black supporters. They just want a black person in the White House. I've even heard many of them say it. They think it's due to them -- no matter what the guy represents or stands for. All that matters is that "one of their own" might become President.

Closer to home, I have a FRIEND who is black and he will NOT say one cross word about Obama and this friend is a CONSERVATIVE (or at least professes to be). Black conservative political commentators have also indicated they might vote for Obama. Look at Colin Powell! So, tell me it's not about color!

If this guy is as radical as I think he is...we may have a long struggle ahead.

I base this comment on his PAST and his RECORD and what comes forth from his mouth...which is readily available to anyone!

This Marxist has an almost supernatural and irrational hold over his minions (supporters) that defies logic. Obama has provided few specifics, but those he has espoused have been Marxist in nature. One would think the populace would clearly see that, but the hatred of Bush and racial politics seems to cloud all rational thought with the fainting minions.

If ever there was a "Manchurian Candidate", I think Obama is it!

Dis

Edited October 15, 2008 by Disastro

[Trae]

The crazy guy is Disastro (and friends). The other is everyone else towards his "Obama Marxist" ideas:

ignore and move on...

[barracuda]

I read this article and wondered if the true reason Obama is being supported is simply racism. It makes no sense to me on any level that this guy, with associations with Bill Ayers (the domestic terrorist who so proudly claimed he was guilty but free) and his Marxist philosophy is being supported by the majority of Blacks in America. Are all Blacks so left-leaning or is it racism?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/oba...ot_be_forg.html

Funny...now the right is going to attack religion as the root of all evil.

[RedScare]

I read this article and wondered if the true reason Obama is being supported is simply racism. It makes no sense to me on any level that this guy, with associations with Bill Ayers (the domestic terrorist who so proudly claimed he was guilty but free) and his Marxist philosophy is being supported by the majority of Blacks in America. Are all Blacks so left-leaning or is it racism?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/06/oba...ot_be_forg.html

I couldn't tell you. I'm a white dude who is voting for Obama. So, I can't really be voting for a Black guy out of racism. I might be voting for him out of a LACK of racism, but it'd be tough for me to vote for him FOR racist reasons.

I have wondered about white people voting for McCain/Palin though. Are all whites separatists or is it racism?

[Trae]

LOL, what I'm saying. I get that in school sometimes. "You only like Obama because he's Black". Well, "you only like McCain because he's white". This usually only comes out when the Repubs are on the losing end.

[Disastro]

The crazy guy is Disastro (and friends). The other is everyone else towards his "Obama Marxist" ideas:

ignore and move on...

Yeah, paying attention to Obama's words and background and pointing it out to others is pretty crazy, huh?

Well, what does that make me if I said I WOULD vote for Alan Keyes (black, conservative...NOT a Marxist)?

I would vote for ANY conservative regardless of race, sex or color. I'll never vote for a socialist or Marxist. I am color blind but not ideology blind.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Disastro

[RedScare]

Yeah, paying attention to Obama's words and background and pointing it out to others is pretty crazy, huh?

Well, what does that make me if I said I WOULD vote for Alan Keyes (black, conservative...NOT a Marxist)?

I would vote for ANY conservative regardless of race, sex or color. I'll never vote for a socialist or Marxist. I am color blind but not ideology blind.

That pretty much blows your racism theory, doesn't it? Keyes was such a moron that Blacks wouldn't vote for him in SPITE of the fact that he is Black.

[Disastro]

That pretty much blows your racism theory, doesn't it? Keyes was such a moron that Blacks wouldn't vote for him in SPITE of the fact that he is Black.

I wouldn't expect a Marxist like you to appreciate the intellect of a great conservative American. Keyes could smoke Obama in a debate -- it would be no contest whatsoever.

But then again, so could I.

Of course a large percentage of blacks wouldn't vote for Keyes. He's not offering any handouts or blaming "the man" for any shortcomings in his life.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Disastro

[memebag]

Oops, I responded to a troll. Sorry.

Edited October 15, 2008 by memebag

[westguy]

Should this thread title be edited? Like the Phil Gramm one?

[jgriff]

I like to call it OJ syndrome. There are people out there who cheered when he got away with murder. I'm sure those people will be chearing when Obama gets elected.

I agree that he's wrong on probably every issue but I still think it may be better for him to get elected than McCain. If McCain gets elected it will be at least 4 more years of everyone trying to destroy the republicans by destroying the U.S. At least if Obama is elected the democrats might be on the side of the U.S. again. You can blame at least some of the economic problems we have now on democrats trying to make things worse to make the current administration look bad (Harry Reid). Hopefully stuff like that will not happen once we have a democrat president.

[cottonmather0]

I think his question was pretty clumsily constructed, but he's dead on right that there are many people - of all races - who are voting for Obama solely because they're married to the "coolness factor" of having a young black president in the white house and either don't know or don't care about his politics (which are nothing special in terms of leftist economic populism - his comment yesterday about "spreading the wealth around" was about as telling as could be).

There are also many people - and I know a couple personally - who are NOT voting for Obama solely because he's black, although I would argue that segment is not nearly as large as most Obama supporters try to claim it is.

Edited October 15, 2008 by cottonmather0

[Disastro]

I like to call it OJ syndrome. There are people out there who cheered when he got away with murder. I'm sure those people will be chearing when Obama gets elected.

I agree that he's wrong on probably every issue but I still think it may be better for him to get elected than McCain. If McCain gets elected it will be at least 4 more years of everyone trying to destroy the republicans by destroying the U.S. At least if Obama is elected the democrats might be on the side of the U.S. again. You can blame at least some of the economic problems we have now on democrats trying to make things worse to make the current administration look bad (Harry Reid). Hopefully stuff like that will not happen once we have a democrat president.

You make a good case, J...but I just think Obama is too dangerous to gamble on that. Under normal circumstances, I would agree with you. However, these are not normal circumstances.

One thing that concerns me about McCain (and there are more than ONE thing) is that he doesn't seem to have fire in his belly to be President. He just doesn't seem like he's "into it".

I think his question was pretty clumsily constructed, but he's dead on right that there are many people - of all races - who are voting for Obama solely because they're married to the "coolness factor" of having a young black president in the white house and either don't know or don't care about his politics (which are nothing special in terms of leftist economic populism - his comment yesterday about "spreading the wealth around" was about as telling as could be).

There are also many people - and I know a couple personally - who are NOT voting for Obama solely because he's black, although I would argue that segment is not nearly as large as most Obama supporters try to claim it is.

I wish we could have a black Ronald Reagan-type conservative. I could vote for someone like that.

[N Judah]

I liked it better when they were accusing Obama of being a Canadian Manchurian Candidate

Edited October 15, 2008 by N Judah

[KinkaidAlum]

All of you Obama is a marxist posters are complete MORONS.

Are you not paying attention to what just happened in our country under a supposedly "conservative" Republican administration? Did you not see that your Great White Hope (McCain) voted for the bailout bill?

We are for all intents and purposes nationalizing banks. We're creating a czar to oversee the security exchange and infusing public money into all sorts of supposedly private ventures. We are even buying private property (mortgages). The big bad marxist revolt has already happened and it looks pretty much like the country we've been for decades already!

You nutjobs sure are amusing.

Edited October 15, 2008 by KinkaidAlum

[westguy76]

I like to call it OJ syndrome. There are people out there who cheered when he got away with murder. I'm sure those people will be chearing when Obama gets elected.

I agree that he's wrong on probably every issue but I still think it may be better for him to get elected than McCain. If McCain gets elected it will be at least 4 more years of everyone trying to destroy the republicans by destroying the U.S. At least if Obama is elected the democrats might be on the side of the U.S. again. You can blame at least some of the economic problems we have now on democrats trying to make things worse to make the current administration look bad (Harry Reid). Hopefully stuff like that will not happen once we have a democrat president.

very well said, about the dems the last 4 years.

It is as simple as Obama is an extremely liberal senator of muslim descent who is too much of an unknown and plays everything to the vest and I believe he is decieving people and I am a nutjob, but the liberal majority who voice their opinion on this website are not nutjobs? They don't deserve any retort? because they have their opinions even if they vastly differ from mine I will not call them nutjobs. (now when they start painting canditate's face on their shoes maybe I will)

Edited October 15, 2008 by westguy76

[JJVilla]

Pretty simple for me:

• I have voted for Democrats in the area and nationally BUT NOT for socialists.
  
• I am not black or white.
  
• Hope all welfare and rock the vote crowd stays at home, like usual.
  
• Don't vote for idiots that demonize my industry (oil), city and state. If he is so smart why is you wasting that ad money insultaing our great city and state.
  

Agree that goverment should/can provide some services for citizens but NOT welfare for all bums.

Edited October 15, 2008 by JJVilla

[cottonmather0]

All of you Obama is a marxist posters are complete MORONS.

Are you not paying attention to what just happened in our country under a supposedly "conservative" Republican administration? Did you not see that your Great White Hope (McCain) voted for the bailout bill?

We are for all intents and purposes nationalizing banks. We're creating a czar to oversee the security exchange and infusing public money into all sorts of supposedly private ventures. We are even buying private property (mortgages). The big bad marxist revolt has already happened and it looks pretty much like the country we've been for decades already!

You nutjobs sure are amusing.

Nutjob? I hope you're not including me in that group.

What part of not wanting to vote for Obama implies that I approve of what's happening now? I support George Bush because I think he's an honorable and decent man with good intentions and a clear sense of morality, but he's done a terrible job as president the past couple years, this current situation included.

As far as voting for McCain, I can't stand the guy and I think he's running a terrible campaign but he's the lesser of two evils at this point.

I was a Fred Thompson man, myself, during the primaries, and he would be absolutely eviscerating Obama at this point in the debates. But given the current banking situation I think Ron Paul (who I respect a lot) and his constant harping on the Fed and money supply has proven himself to be the most prescient and serious of all of the candidates.

[Trae]

I think his question was pretty clumsily constructed, but he's dead on right that there are many people - of all races - who are voting for Obama solely because they're married to the "coolness factor" of having a young black president in the white house and either don't know or don't care about his politics (which are nothing special in terms of leftist economic populism - his comment yesterday about "spreading the wealth around" was about as telling as could be).

There are also many people - and I know a couple personally - who are NOT voting for Obama solely because he's black, although I would argue that segment is not nearly as large as most Obama supporters try to claim it is.

Yeah, this was especially cute to say back in February, but now? Hell no. I've yet to meet someone who is voting for Obama just on those factors alone.

[N Judah]

He is wonkish, not cool. I would not like to have a beer with him. But I think he is a good candidate.

[RedScare]

He is wonkish, not cool. I would not like to have a beer with him. But I think he is a good candidate.

I agree, he is wonkish, not cool. I also would admit to being impressed by intelligence and wonkishness. I am sick of ignorance masquerading as "populism" or "conservatism". I am also tired of parties and candidates that preach "personal responsibility", yet have doubled the National Debt in only 8 years.

As is always the case in a 2 party election, different groups vote for a candidate for different reasons. Some Blacks and some Whites are going to vote on skin color alone. Some voters may vote on the abortion issue. Some vote strictly on tax rates or Iraq. Personally, I was looking at a variety of issues earlier in the summer. Now that the economy is in more severe distress than at any time in my life (with the possible exception of 1973-74), I have become somewhat of a one-issue voter. And on that one issue, the McCain/Palin ticket could not be less equipped to handle the problem. From McCain's admitted ignorance of the economy to his choice of advisers, I believe that McCain as president would be worse than Bush as president...and that is hard to do. At least with Obama, he appears to have the intelligence to surround himself with some bright minds. And, for the conspiracy-minded, there are still 535 members of Congress to check any Marxist tendencies he may have.

[cottonmather0]

Yes, this is Howard Stern, so feel free to point out that it's obviously selectively edited (surely these aren't the only people he talked to) and the language is going to be bad, but it's also supportive of the OP, fwiw.

[VicMan]

Hi Toggle! You have a HAIFomework assignment. Your assignment is:

* Give HAIF a definition of Marxism

* Explain why this system would be fundamentally flawed in the United States

* How Barack Obama's policies and attitudes correspond with your definition of Marxism

[RedScare]

Yes, this is Howard Stern, so feel free to point out that it's obviously selectively edited (surely these aren't the only people he talked to) and the language is going to be bad, but it's also supportive of the OP, fwiw.

Cotton, is that any more enlightening than McCain supporters...even on this forum...railing against socialism, when McCain is proposing to buy up home mortgages at full price from lenders and renegotiating them according to their ability to pay? You know, "...to each according to need".

Is it any different than McCain supporters railing against 'out of control spending' when McCain's fiscal policies would increase the National Debt 50% more than Obama's?

I will be the first to agree that a massive percentage of the electorate, perhaps 90% or more, is comprised of morons voting strictly on the letter at the end of the candidates' names. This is every bit as true for the GOP as the Democratic Party. This thread is exhibit number 1. But, just as the GOP cannot rely on true conservatives to get elected, neither can the Dems rely on intelligent liberals or centrists. There are simply too few intelligent and principled voters on either side to gain a majority of the vote. So, what do they do? The GOP tries to lure the greedy rich with promises of tax breaks, and fills in the gaps with with morality plays on abortion, gays, 'evil doers' and religion. The Dems try to paint the middle class and poor as victims of the rich.

Depending on the climate, the moderates will identify with one group or the other. This year, it is hard not to feel significantly more poor than in past elections. McCain, and other Republicans, are hard pressed to paint themselves as friends of the middle class when they've been as such fiends of the rich in the past. Given the percentage of voters who do not research the issues and candidates, but instead get their info from cable news and talk radio, neither candidate can expect to win on the truth. In fact, I'd go so far as to say the Dow is a better predictor of the winner than the debates.

The fact that morons are also voting for Obama does not does not dilute the research that I have put into my vote. The fact that morons are voting for McCain does not dilute your decision to vote for McCain. They simply make the forum more fun to read.

[tanith27]

I look forward to all of the members of the 'Obama the Marxist' fanclub leaving the US when he becomes president. After all, the country is going to hell right? And surely you dont want to be caught up in it all? Maybe you should cash out now while the stock market is doing so well. Ghana is beautiful this time of year from what I hear. Make sure you send us all a postcard.

[westguy]

Is it any different than McCain supporters railing against 'out of control spending' when McCain's fiscal policies would increase the National Debt 50% more than Obama's?

IOKIYAR

[Disastro]

I look forward to all of the members of the 'Obama the Marxist' fanclub leaving the US when he becomes president. After all, the country is going to hell right? And surely you dont want to be caught up in it all? Maybe you should cash out now while the stock market is doing so well. Ghana is beautiful this time of year from what I hear. Make sure you send us all a postcard.

Who said they are leaving?

The half of the country that DOESN'T want Marxism will take the country back if things get too out of hand once this dangerous Marxist fool starts implimenting his agenda (assuming he even gets in there -- that's NOT a sure thing, BTW). I plan to stay and fight this bastard at every turn -- should he get in there and impliment his Marxist schemes. I know plenty of others who will do the same.

No Alec Baldwin here.

Oh and any of you idiots who think I am a "nutjob" for pointing out the Marxists record, friends (domestic radicals, foreign Marxists and Islamists) and history need your heads examined.

You have truly been smoking way too much weed and or/displaying how much the public education system has failed you.

braindead morons. I put those so-called conservatives who don't want to point out the Marxist's record and history in that same category. Do conservatives a favor and go vote for the Marxist. With friends like the fake conservatives (spineless milquetoast moderates), who needs enemies?

Finally, I would be the LAST person to say McCain is perfect. He's my DEFAULT candidate. There's a lot I don't like about him...but he's NOT a Marxist like Obama. McCain doesn't have the support of Hezbollah, Hamas, Mahmood Amadinejad, Hugo Chavez, Vladimir Putin, and Daniel Ortega.

That right there tells me McCain is better for America than Obama would be...commies stand up for fellow commies!

Edited October 16, 2008 by Subdude

[TJones]

I look forward to all of the members of the 'Obama the Marxist' fanclub leaving the US when he becomes president. After all, the country is going to hell right? And surely you dont want to be caught up in it all? Maybe you should cash out now while the stock market is doing so well. Ghana is beautiful this time of year from what I hear. Make sure you send us all a postcard.

Just when some thought the "Obama is a Marxist supporters" were morons, suddenly a NEW contender arises.

Drink up that Kool-Aid chief.

Edited October 15, 2008 by TJones

[Disastro]

Just when some thought the "Obama is a Marxist supporters" were morons, suddenly a NEW contender arises.

Drink up that Kool-Aid chief.

Scary, huh, TJ?

Programmed little useful braindead idiots...sorry...I can't take the stupidity of it all anymore. 99% of these idiots don't even know or care what Obama represents or what he believes in or care about his associations with enemies of America!

I've listened to people say they are voting for Obama because he LOOKS GOOD or because they need a "fresh" leader! ARE YOU ____ING KIDDING ME???!!!

Sadly, this is typical of the Obama voter. And even more sad -- WE have to suffer the consequences of these idiots votes!!

That's what pisses me off!

The stupid !!!

Again...sorry. Some days I suffer fools more easily than others. Today is not a good day.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Subdude
Language

[crunchtastic]

Today is not a good day.

I doubt any day is a good day for you.

What I find so deliciously ironic is that many of your posts here contain content sufficient to get you tagged with making terroristic threats. Hard to wage your anti-marxist rise-up from a jail cell. Just saying.

This is a public forum. You never know whom has contacts with whom. You would be wise to tone it down.

[VicMan]

Disastro, TJ, perhaps you could help Toggle in his homework assignment.

[TJones]

In all fairness Disastro, that has been the norm for American politics for a good part of the last Century. Most countries see it that way also. That is why people like Ross Perot and Michael Dukakhis never had a chance. You got to have a good lookin' 6 footer with a million dollar smile to make America look strong. We also used to want someone who actually has fought for this country as they seem to know what ultimate sacrifice and a love for one's country might be. Nowadays it's, "Well, I can forgive the fact that he was running around with domestic terrorists. Just as long as I get some of that Govt. cheese. Oh, and he ain't Bush."

If people would take a few minutes to actually read about Obama's associates, and I have provided links for those too lazy to research for yourselves, they may feel differently. But most, especially on here, would seem to give Obama a pass, even if Timothy McVeigh were the one who threw Obama his coming out party and had served with him on a charitable organization for years. They just can't seem to see the parallel. Obama has thrown EVERYONE under the bus, he has now even thrown ACORN under the bus, which is the group that helped him get elected in Chicago. When he shows how much he cares about thoe who have actually helped him, how much do you think he is gonna care about those he hasn't even shook hands with ? I think he should run for Chancellor of Germany, Obama is as hot as Hasselhoff over there. It will probably be Obama's next move after he gets his ass handed to him in November.

Edited October 16, 2008 by TJones

[Disastro]

I doubt any day is a good day for you.

What I find so deliciously ironic is that many of your posts here contain content sufficient to get you tagged with making terroristic threats. Hard to wage your anti-marxist rise-up from a jail cell. Just saying.

This is a public forum. You never know whom has contacts with whom. You would be wise to tone it down.

Don't try that "terroristic threats" bull---- on me. My comments were made in reference to a purely hypothetical situation (a Marxist takeover of America) and nothing specific was outlined or described.

That hypothetical situation has not come to pass and no threats have been made.

I don't care who reads my words. Until there is a Marxist takeover, my rights are still protected under the Constitution.

Believe me, no one will ever take those away.

[VicMan]

Disastro, you talk about a "Marxist takeover" - I asked Toggle what his definition of Marxism is, why it would be bad for the United States, and how Obama's policies match with it.

I think going into detail about specifics rather than wrangling over labels like "Marxism" will improve this debate.

[N Judah]

Don't try that "terroristic threats" bullshit on me. My comments were made in reference to a purely hypothetical situation (a Marxist takeover of America) and nothing specific was outlined or described.

That hypothetical situation has not come to pass and no threats have been made.

I don't care who reads my words. Until there is a Marxist takeover, my rights are still protected under the Constitution.

Believe me, no one will ever take those away.

Hey! Watch the language! This is a family site.

Edited October 16, 2008 by N Judah

[Disastro]

In all fairness Disastro, that has been the norm for Ameircan politics for a good part of the last Century. Most countries see it that way also. That is why people like Ross Perot and Michael Dukakhis never had a chance. You got to have a good lookin' 6 footer with a million dollar smile to make America look strong. We also used to want someone who actually has fought for this country as they seem to know what ultimate sacrifice and a love for one's country might be. Nowadays it's, "Well, I can forgive the fact that he was running around with domestic terrorists. Just as long as I get some of that Govt. cheese. Oh, and he ain't Bush."

If people would take a few minutes to actually read about Obama's associates, and I have provided links for those too lazy to research for yourselves, they may feel differently. But most, especially on here, would seem to give Obama a pass, even if Timothy McVeigh were the one who threw Obama his coming out party and had served with him on a charitable organization for years. They just can't seem to see the parallel. Obama has thrown EVERYONE under the bus, he has now even thrown ACORN under the bus, which is the group that helped him get elected in Chicago. When he shows how much he cares about thoe who have actually helped him, how much do you think he is gonna care about those he hasn't even shook hands with ? I think he should run for Chancellor of Germany, Obama is as hot as Hasselhoff over there. It will probably be Obama's next move after he gets his ass handed to him in November.

True, TJ.

However, If one is armed with the facts and then chooses to ignore them then they are part of the problem as well. But I guess that's no surprise. I've always said these MoveOn.org/Marxist types were seditionists and traitors...and I hold to that.

People who vote based on looks and superficial things should have their voting priviledge removed. There used to be a time in this country where you couldn't vote unless you owned property.

I think we might need to return to that...but given the braindead nature of about 40% - 50% of our populace, I won't hold my breath.

[N Judah]

I think we might need to return to that...but given the braindead nature of about 40% - 50% of our populace, I won't hold my breath.

You could try seceding.

Edited October 16, 2008 by N Judah

[TJones]

Disastro, TJ, perhaps you could help Toggle in his homework assignment.

"a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation[3] of workers by the owners of the means of production

a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production

an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production, and as a particular position within such relations

an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable

a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change

a belief that this dialectical historical process will ultimately result in a replacement of the current class structure of society with a system that manages society for the good of all, resulting in the dissolution of the class structure and its support (more often than not including the nation state) "

"On every major policy front, Obama has declared two things: 1) the exploitation and alienation of labor is the true evil in this country and 2) that increasing the size and scope of Government is the answer."

[Disastro]

Disastro, you talk about a "Marxist takeover" - I asked Toggle what his definition of Marxism is, why it would be bad for the United States, and how Obama's policies match with it.

I think going into detail about specifics rather than wrangling over labels like "Marxism" will improve this debate.

Well, it's the redistribution of wealth...gah! I've been through all that. Obama supporters aren't interested. Nothing will deter them from supporting their "Messiah".

It's just like the 90's all over again when they were brainwashed with Clinton. He could do no wrong. Same for Obama now.

"a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation[3] of workers by the owners of the means of production

a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production

an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production, and as a particular position within such relations

an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable

a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change

a belief that this dialectical historical process will ultimately result in a replacement of the current class structure of society with a system that manages society for the good of all, resulting in the dissolution of the class structure and its support (more often than not including the nation state) "

"On every major policy front, Obama has declared two things: 1) the exploitation and alienation of labor is the true evil in this country and 2) that increasing the size and scope of Government is the answer."

"We have lost the understanding that in a democracy, we have a mutual obligation to one another

[TJones]

Well, I am actually trying to help Vicman, and not Toggle. I am sure he is a nice enough guy, but Toggle is a little too Aryan for my views. Even though some think my signature was a piece of racebait.

[Disastro]

Well, I am actually trying to help Vicman, and not Toggle. I am sure he is a nice enough guy, but Toggle is a little too Aryan for my views. Even though some think my signature was a piece of racebait.

Well, I support you in your efforts! LOL!!!

I don't really know Toggle...I haven't read any of his posts but I'm not into that Aryan thing you mention either...

[crunchtastic]

Don't try that "terroristic threats" bullshit on me. My comments were made in reference to a purely hypothetical situation (a Marxist takeover of America) and nothing specific was outlined or described.

That hypothetical situation has not come to pass and no threats have been made.

I don't care who reads my words. Until there is a Marxist takeover, my rights are still protected under the Constitution.

Believe me, no one will ever take those away.

Allright, Mr. Cold Dead Hands. We all suffer for our convictions.

But your 'hypothetical Marxist takeover of America' is not merely hypothetical, it is also possible, if not probable. Moreover, the threats do not have to be specific, just clear. (google 'executive signing statements', if you like. See also, 'Patriot Act').

[TJones]

Allright, Mr. Cold Dead Hands. We all suffer for our convictions.

But your 'hypothetical Marxist takeover of America' is not merely hypothetical, it is also possible, if not probable. Moreover, the threats do not have to be specific, just clear. (google 'executive signing statements', if you like. See also, 'Patriot Act').

Crunch, here we go with your "Humvees and Tanks rolling down your street", thing again. Do you truly believe that "The Patriot Act" was aimed at YOU , or any law abiding citizen in this country ? Just for giggles, in your mind, who was the Patriot Act structured towards ?

[Disastro]

Allright, Mr. Cold Dead Hands. We all suffer for our convictions.

But your 'hypothetical Marxist takeover of America' is not merely hypothetical, it is also possible, if not probable. Moreover, the threats do not have to be specific, just clear. (google 'executive signing statements', if you like. See also, 'Patriot Act').

Well, if it truly is "probable" as you say, then you and the rest of us will have MUCH more to worry about than harmless (albeit emotional) me.

Besides, chin up! McCain can still win. It's not over until the fat lady sings...

I'm trying to be positive.

Do you really think tanks will be rolling in the streets?

Edited October 16, 2008 by Disastro

[sarahiki]

Scary, huh, TJ?

Programmed little useful braindead idiots...sorry...I can't take the stupidity of it all anymore. 99% of these idiots don't even know or care what Obama represents or what he believes in or care about his associations with enemies of America!

I've listened to people say they are voting for Obama because he LOOKS GOOD or because they need a "fresh" leader! ARE YOU ____ING KIDDING ME???!!!

Sadly, this is typical of the Obama voter. And even more sad -- WE have to suffer the consequences of these idiots votes!!

That's what pisses me off!

The stupid F-ers!!!

Again...sorry. Some days I suffer fools more easily than others. Today is not a good day.

If you were really sorry, you would have hit the delete key a few times. If you can't be even a little bit respectful you really shouldn't be posting. I would ignore your posts, but you are so damn funny that I would miss reading them. I keep waiting for you to have a coronary or something while typing though. Seriously, I'm concerned. Calm down a little.

Edited October 16, 2008 by sarahiki

[Disastro]

If you were really sorry, you would have hit the delete key a few times. If you can't be even a little bit respectful you really shouldn't be posting. I would hit delete, but you are so damn funny that I would miss your wacky posts. I keep waiting for you to have a coronary or something while typing though. Seriously, I'm concerned. Calm down a little.

Yeah, you're right Sarah.

I promise to chill. I'm sorry. Honestly.

Will you (and the others) forgive? Seriously...sorry about the namecalling. It was uncalled for.

With regard to Obama, let's just agree to disagree...

Dis

Edited October 16, 2008 by Disastro

[VicMan]

I'll take a look at the Obama quotes in a sec. Let's keep in mind what Barbara Mikkelsen said in a Snopes article about some quotes attributed to Hillary Clinton that were described as "Marxist" in chain e-mails: http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp

* "Most collections of political quotes are difficult to rate as strictly "true" or "false" although they generally include statements that were indeed uttered by the persons to whom they're attributed, they also create misleading impressions about the nature of those statements by eliding portions of them and stripping them of all explanatory context."

[sarahiki]

Yeah, you're right Sarah.

I promise to chill. I'm sorry. Honestly.

Will you (and the others) forgive? Seriously...sorry about the namecalling. It was uncalled for.

With regard to Obama, let's just agree to disagree...

Dis

Thanks, that's very nice. Agreed.

[TJones]

I'll take a look at the Obama quotes in a sec. Let's keep in mind what Barbara Mikkelsen said in a Snopes article about some quotes attributed to Hillary Clinton that were described as "Marxist" in chain e-mails: http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/marxist.asp

* "Most collections of political quotes are difficult to rate as strictly "true" or "false" although they generally include statements that were indeed uttered by the persons to whom they're attributed, they also create misleading impressions about the nature of those statements by eliding portions of them and stripping them of all explanatory context."

I am not asking you to look at his quotes, I am asking you to look up the people he has been hanging out with and the organizations he has organized and given money to BEFORE becoming a political hack.

BTW, here you go Vicman, tell me what you think: http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.a...305420655186700

Edited October 16, 2008 by TJones