University Of Houston Downtown Developments

[kylejack]

Idiotic.

Houston is NOT in South Texas. This is just plain stupid.

Cullen State makes so much more sense but why teach kids a little bit of local history when we can misinform them about geography?

Eh, it could be worse.

[totheskies]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Texas

South Texas is a region of the U.S. state of Texas that lies roughly south of, or beginning at, San Antonio. The southern and western boundary is the Rio Grande River, and to the east it is the Gulf of Mexico. The population of this region is about 3.7 million. The southern portion of this region is often referred to as the Rio Grande Valley. The eastern portion along the Gulf of Mexico is also referred to as the Coastal Bend.

There is no defined northern boundary, although it is believed to be at the city of San Antonio and from an east to west line extending from the Rio Grande near Maverick County to the Gulf of Mexico, but turning southeast at or near Lavaca County, and continuing towards the Gulf of Mexico to separate it from East Texas and Southeast Texas. The Rio Grande serves as the western and southern boundaries and separates Texas from Mexico. The eastern portion of South Texas is bordered by the Gulf of Mexico.

Some people consider Houston to be in South Texas for several reasons. Numerous businesses in the Houston region contain 'South Texas' in their titles.[2] The South Texas College of Law is located in downtown Houston. The United States District Court for the Southern District of Texas includes the Houston division. And like South Texas, the city has a large Hispanic population. However, Houston is most accurately classified as being within Southeast Texas, a subregion of East Texas.

[Highway6]

Hallelujah !! Thank God the decision makers at the System level have brains and veto power.

University of Houston System regents Friday decided to wait for more suggestions before choosing a new moniker for UH-Downtown, concerned that

Edited February 7, 2009 by Highway6

[LTAWACS]

Thank god. Someone over there has actually earned their degree. I'm sure they will FINALLY understand that no change is needed.

[KinkaidAlum]

Sweet!

A new nomination process begins;

CULLEN STATE

or, have some fun with

BAYOU STATE

or, play off of Houston's lame image campaigns...

SPACE CITY UNIVERSITY

BAYOU CITY STATE UNIVERSITY

HOUSTON, IT'S HOT UNIVERSITY (HiHu!)

EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED UNIVERSITY

IT'S WORTH IT UNIVERSITY

[Highway6]

Judging by the quotes in the article, its obvious the regents are avid HAIF readers and were well aware of our dislike of the chosen name and the reasons why.

Thank you regents.

At ths time I would like to submit Craig Biggio University for consideration.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Highway6

[CoolBuddy06]

Judging by the quotes in the article, its obvious the regents are avid HAIF readers and were well aware of our dislike of the chosen name and the reasons why.

Thank you regents.

At ths time I would like to submit Craig Biggio University for consideration.

Sure they do. But do they need more than common sense to see those flaws?

[FordGuyHTX]

University of Houston

[skyphen]

Whatever they choose, I hope it keeps Houston or some reference to it rather than Texas in the title. How many colleges are there with Texas in the title already? Among recent unnecessary borderline stupid name changes was Southwest Texas State U to Texas State U. I hope they don't go with anything remotely similar to that.

[FalconRanch1]

Whatever they choose, I hope it keeps Houston or some reference to it rather than Texas in the title. How many colleges are there with Texas in the title already? Among recent unnecessary borderline stupid name changes was Southwest Texas State U to Texas State U. I hope they don't go with anything remotely similar to that.

University of South East Texas and lets end this once in for all!

[sevfiv]

It just makes sense that if it is part of the UH system, UH should be part of the name. All of the campuses have geographical notations (Downtown, Clear Lake, Victoria, main/central).

Also, is anyone familiar with another university that is named for its city and has several campuses?

[Trae]

This is getting to be so funny.

[Brian Reading]

What nobody seems to talk about is the damage the name change will cause to the University of Houston SYSTEM! As mentioned above, having "University of Houston" in the name is what allows for name recognition, not because of simply the flagship university, but because it's part of something greater than just one university. Dr. Hoffman, would probably hate to see what Max Castillo has done here.

Allowing a university in the system to disregard those system ties is signifying a weak brand recognition for UHS. Our system is fledgling as it is, we don't need more fragmentation, but unification. Let's look at some of the more prominent public university systems in the country. Do you think the universities in the University of California system don't want to be associated with the UC name? How about the universities in the University of Texas System? The fact is that it actually helps to build a university, rather than tear it down.

Having a similar name to a "flagship" university in the system doesn't stifle growth either. Just ask UCLA. The school made a name for themselves on their own. UTSA, UTEP, and UTD are starting to do it too. As Chancellor Khator mentioned, there's nothing formally set-up that disallows UHD from being treated equally from UH.

Thus I recommend, if there is to be a name change, that it keeps the "University of Houston" in the name. My favorite was "University of Houston-Allen's Landing". It's distinctive, nods to history, is highly Houston-oriented, and upholds brand recognition for the University of Houston System. Hell, it even could be a kinda catchy little abbreviation; UHAL.

I hope that they start thinking about this, and allow for UH names again in the new process. What do you guys think?

[FordGuyHTX]

What nobody seems to talk about is the damage the name change will cause to the University of Houston SYSTEM! As mentioned above, having "University of Houston" in the name is what allows for name recognition, not because of simply the flagship university, but because it's part of something greater than just one university. Dr. Hoffman, would probably hate to see what Max Castillo has done here.

Allowing a university in the system to disregard those system ties is signifying a weak brand recognition for UHS. Our system is fledgling as it is, we don't need more fragmentation, but unification. Let's look at some of the more prominent public university systems in the country. Do you think the universities in the University of California system don't want to be associated with the UC name? How about the universities in the University of Texas System? The fact is that it actually helps to build a university, rather than tear it down.

Having a similar name to a "flagship" university in the system doesn't stifle growth either. Just ask UCLA. The school made a name for themselves on their own. UTSA, UTEP, and UTD are starting to do it too. As Chancellor Khator mentioned, there's nothing formally set-up that disallows UHD from being treated equally from UH.

Thus I recommend, if there is to be a name change, that it keeps the "University of Houston" in the name. My favorite was "University of Houston-Allen's Landing". It's distinctive, nods to history, is highly Houston-oriented, and upholds brand recognition for the University of Houston System. Hell, it even could be a kinda catchy little abbreviation; UHAL.

I hope that they start thinking about this, and allow for UH names again in the new process. What do you guys think?

Renaming UHD's name will not "damage" the University of Houston System ("UHS") at all. It will help UHS flagship University of Houston ("UH") because of the confusion most people have with UHD. No one wants to be associated and confused with an open admission university! UHD has been "damaging" to UH for the last 30 years by carrying the system's name and being an open admission university with mostly undesirable student population.

No other university system has more than one freestanding university in the same city and within less than 5 miles away. Renaming UHD entirely without the system's name is the only way to end confusion because of the proximity of that school with UH.

Just because UHD is part of UHS does not mean it has to carry the system's name. Tarleton State University is part of Texas A&M University System, but they don't bear the system's name. Likewise, Texas State University System has many universities that do not carry the system's name. Angelo State University is part of Texas Tech University System and they don't bear the system's name either.

We don't need "unification" within UHS--we need separation. We need for people to see that UHD is a separate university--not part of UH--and the only way to that is rename UHD completly. The next name recommendation for UHD will not contain the system's name so don't get your hopes up.

UHD has been nothing but a burden on UHS and UH. Giving UHD a distinctive name is the best way for that school to remain within UHS without embarrassing UH students and alumni. UHD students and alumni tend to lie and say they are students or graduates from UH.

UH alumni suffer because of the confusion the public has with UHD.

Brian, you are a student at UH and should know better than to suggest that UHD retain the system's name!

Edited February 8, 2009 by FordGuyHTX

[Brian Reading]

Renaming UHD's name entirely will not hurt the University of Houston System ("UHS") at all. It will help UHS flagship University of Houston ("UH") because of the confusion most people have with UHD. No one wants to be associated and be confused with an open admission university! UHD is the one hurting UH by carrying the system's name and being an open admission university with mostly undesirable student population.

No other university system has more than one freestanding university in the same city and within less than 5 miles away. Renaming UHD entirely without the system's name is the only way to end confusion because of the proximity of that school with UH.

I certainly disagree, but remember, I'm not advocating keeping the name either. I think using the distinction "Allen's Landing" will make a lot of difference. Two main things should accompany the name change. Firstly, a large ad campaign should be launched in conjunction with the UH System and quick re-branding should be done. This will allow for education in the community and general public.

Secondly, the university needs to look at much more traditional ways of expanding. How about changing their open admission policy? Maybe look into adding athletics programs? Take a look at UH-Victoria! These guys have the right idea for expansion, and probably even a more logical reason for a name change. This is what will truly gain this university recognition. Like I said, nobody sees UCLA as in the shadow of UC Berkeley anymore. Although, this wasn't always the case. It took lots of hard work, not a simple name change. Basically, I guess my main point is that a name change doesn't create recognition, tradition of prestige does.

Just because UHD is part of UHS does not mean it has to carry the system's name. Tarleton State University is part of Texas A&M University System, but they don't bear the system's name. Likewise, Texas State University System has many universities that do not carry the system's name. Angelo State University is part of Texas Tech University System and they don't bear the system's name either.

Yes, but having different names hurts those university systems in the same way that UHD's name change could hurt the UH System. I personally feel that the UH System is superior to the Texas State and Texas Tech Systems, so a comparison there isn't worthwhile to me. The Texas A&M University System is also nowhere near as established as the University of Texas System, despite their flagship.

I stand by my idea that prominent university system schools want to show solidarity with their respective systems.

We don't need unification within UHS--we need separation. We need for people to see that UHD is a separate university--not part of UH--and the only way to that is rename UHD completly. The next name recommendation for UHD will not contain the system's name so don't get your hopes up.

UH alumni--especially from the Bauer College of Business--suffer because of the confusion the public has with UHD.

Brian, you are a student at UH and should know better than to suggest that UHD retain the system's name!

Separation might fix confusion, but it's throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As I mentioned above, there are better ways to fix this issue. I feel that UHD's public rejection of the UH System does more to hurt my university's quest for Tier I status than help. What do you think?

[FordGuyHTX]

Separation might fix confusion, but it's throwing out the baby with the bathwater. As I mentioned above, there are better ways to fix this issue. I feel that UHD's public rejection of the UH System does more to hurt my university's quest for Tier I status than help. What do you think?

Because of UHD's proximity to UH, there is no other way to fix the confusion but to rename it completely without carrying the system's name. If UHD was 25 miles away or in a different city from UH, there wouldn't be a name change right now. I do not know of any UH alumni that want UHD to keep its current name or continue carrying the sytem's name as part of their new name. Once you become a UH alumnus, you will feel the pain of having to explain you graduated from The University of Houston and not UHD--and how UHD is not part of UH.

I have to disagree with your statement of UHD's public rejection of UHS. I don't see changing UHD's name is going to hurt UH's quest for state flagship status and Tier One research funding at all. Please help me understand your point of view on this and why you believe UHD is rejecting UHS.

Brian, I would like for UH (my alma mater) to obtain state flagship status and Tier One research funding as much as you.

Please know that the UHS Board of Regents already approved the name change for UHD. The only issue left is what the new name would be. They have rejected "Houston Metropolitan University" and "University of South Texas" so I have no idea what the next one will be. They should just rename UHD to Cullen State University.

Edited February 8, 2009 by FordGuyHTX

[sevfiv]

No one wants to be associated and confused with an open admission university! UHD has been "damaging" to UH for the last 30 years by carrying the system's name and being an open admission university with mostly undesirable student population.

[...]

We don't need "unification" within UHS--we need separation. We need for people to see that UHD is a separate university--not part of UH--and the only way to that is rename UHD completly. The next name recommendation for UHD will not contain the system's name so don't get your hopes up.

UHD has been nothing but a burden on UHS and UH. Giving UHD a distinctive name is the best way for that school to remain within UHS without embarrassing UH students and alumni. UHD students and alumni tend to lie and say they are students or graduates from UH.

UH alumni suffer because of the confusion the public has with UHD.

^From what you wrote, it sounds like the UH system needs to give that bastard child up for adoption then!

Fwiw, I am also a UH graduate but have never suffered from any confusion with UHD.

[KinkaidAlum]

The real problem I see is that the confusion between the main campus of The University of Houston and the University of Houston-Downtown reveals a wider problem within the City of Houston. There's just no sense of place here.

We don't have solid neighborhoods with lots of tradition. We don't hold dearly to the past. We have news reports that say "downtown" when they are talking about the Eastside or "Southwest Houston" when they are talking about anything that happens in an area that covers a couple of hundred square miles. So, it's no wonder we have EDUCATORS who now want to name a university that is NOT in South Texas, The University of South Texas!

I think this is what happens when you have a city that covers over 600 square miles. How can you really know every single neighborhood?

Now, throwing that aside, I still think people have to be mighty stupid to assume that the Cullen campus is "downtown." That's just sad.

[totheskies]

UH-D needs to face facts... it is located in Houston, it is a University, and it is located in DOWNTOWN. It's purpose is to educate LOCAL citizens who need a degree to advance themselves, but may not be quite up to the University of Houston's standards. There's nothing wrong with any of those things, but I think the school is starting to get caught up in its own delusions of grandeur. I have taught there, and I think it's a great school. But a new name is NOT going to change its purpose, or its relationship within the UH system. As I wrote in my letter to President Castillo, UH-D needs to take a little time to figure itself out, before seeking to change the institution's name. The Regents were pretty clear about this.

[JLWM8609]

Renaming UHD's name will not "damage" the University of Houston System ("UHS") at all. It will help UHS flagship University of Houston ("UH") because of the confusion most people have with UHD. No one wants to be associated and confused with an open admission university! UHD has been "damaging" to UH for the last 30 years by carrying the system's name and being an open admission university with mostly undesirable student population.

No other university system has more than one freestanding university in the same city and within less than 5 miles away. Renaming UHD entirely without the system's name is the only way to end confusion because of the proximity of that school with UH.

Just because UHD is part of UHS does not mean it has to carry the system's name. Tarleton State University is part of Texas A&M University System, but they don't bear the system's name. Likewise, Texas State University System has many universities that do not carry the system's name. Angelo State University is part of Texas Tech University System and they don't bear the system's name either.

We don't need "unification" within UHS--we need separation. We need for people to see that UHD is a separate university--not part of UH--and the only way to that is rename UHD completly. The next name recommendation for UHD will not contain the system's name so don't get your hopes up.

UHD has been nothing but a burden on UHS and UH. Giving UHD a distinctive name is the best way for that school to remain within UHS without embarrassing UH students and alumni. UHD students and alumni tend to lie and say they are students or graduates from UH.

UH alumni suffer because of the confusion the public has with UHD.

Brian, you are a student at UH and should know better than to suggest that UHD retain the system's name!

Describing our student body as "mostly undesirable", and your continued perpetuation of the lie that our students and alumni like to say that they go to or went to UH renders much, it not all of your argument for the name change as flawed. I may be wrong, but your post kind of reeks of ill perceived elitism based on your choice of words and phrases. I have plenty of friends and family members who are UH students and grads, and not one of them has or had trouble finding employment because of supposed confusion with UHD. In fact, these same UH students and grads believe that the name change is unnecessary.

Perhaps some of us at UHD do want a name change, so that our alumni do not become wrongly associated with a certain UH alumnus who exhibits "mostly undesirable" traits, such as twisting and bending words just to make their point seem right.

[TheNiche]

Describing our student body as "mostly undesirable", and your continued perpetuation of the lie that our students and alumni like to say that they go to or went to UH renders much, it not all of your argument for the name change as flawed. I may be wrong, but your post kind of reeks of ill perceived elitism based on your choice of words and phrases. I have plenty of friends and family members who are UH students and grads, and not one of them has or had trouble finding employment because of supposed confusion with UHD. In fact, these same UH students and grads believe that the name change is unnecessary.

Perhaps some of us at UHD do want a name change, so that our alumni do not become wrongly associated with a certain UH alumnus who exhibits "mostly undesirable" traits, such as twisting and bending words just to make their point seem right.

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the whole issue. It is about shameless elitism and distancing the main campus from an open admissions school which is perceived to produce lower-quality graduates.

I've had to explain the difference before, myself, to people unfamiliar with how the UH System is set up. Whether the circumstances reflect a kind of mean or elitist attitude within society or whether you find it personally insulting, the UH System should take action to mitigate the problems that the confusion causes. There's really nothing much else that they can do which would solve all the problems. A PR campaign to inform the public would have to go on indefinitely, and would have to have a very wide reach. And to have to roll out a PR campaign to explicitly distance the main campus from 'that other nearby open-enrollment school with a similar name' surely is even more embarrassing to the UH-D students and faculty than a discrete name change.

Edited February 9, 2009 by TheNiche

[totheskies]

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the whole issue. It is about shameless elitism and distancing the main campus from an open admissions school which is perceived to produce lower-quality graduates.

I've had to explain the difference before, myself, to people unfamiliar with how the UH System is set up. Whether the circumstances reflect a kind of mean or elitist attitude within society or whether you find it personally insulting, the UH System should take action to mitigate the problems that the confusion causes. There's really nothing much else that they can do which would solve all the problems. A PR campaign to inform the public would have to go on indefinitely, and would have to have a very wide reach. And to have to roll out a PR campaign to explicitly distance the main campus from 'that other nearby open-enrollment school with a similar name' surely is even more embarrassing to the UH-D students and faculty than a discrete name change.

I guess it wouldn't be as big of a problem IF UH-D students (and faculty) didn't perpetuate the confusion. I've read more than enough CVs which downplay that the student is from UH-D, and been asked to write several recommendation letters. One student even came back to me and asked me to refer to the school as UH-D, but just as UH b/c he felt that would help him land a better job. As much as I wanted to help the student, I refused to change the recommendation because it's not the truth. Does that make me elitist???

I'm from southern Arkansas, and I did my undergrad at a little bitty school of 3500 people. I'd be shocked if anyone on this board even knows where it is. However, I moved to Houston, managed to get into grad school, and had no problem finding work coming from a "no-name" school. Why? Because I took the opportunities I was given and worked my way up. An education is an education. Once you get the degree, you get thrown out into the cold and evil world with everyone else. Better sink or swim.

[infinite_jim]

Reverse order the name.

Downtown Houston University (DHU)

Same name, sounds different ;-)

[FalconRanch1]

Describing our student body as "mostly undesirable", and your continued perpetuation of the lie that our students and alumni like to say that they go to or went to UH renders much, it not all of your argument for the name change as flawed. I may be wrong, but your post kind of reeks of ill perceived elitism based on your choice of words and phrases. I have plenty of friends and family members who are UH students and grads, and not one of them has or had trouble finding employment because of supposed confusion with UHD. In fact, these same UH students and grads believe that the name change is unnecessary.

Perhaps some of us at UHD do want a name change, so that our alumni do not become wrongly associated with a certain UH alumnus who exhibits "mostly undesirable" traits, such as twisting and bending words just to make their point seem right.

This is absolutely not the truth. I am a student at UH and we are ALL waiting for this to go through, we were ecstatic when we heard UHD was finally changing its name! We are tired of people confusing our university with UHD, it happens more times than not. "What school do you go to?" I go to UH. "Oh the one downtown?" No, I go to central campus. "Wait there's two?" And the explaining begins.........

Edited February 10, 2009 by FalconRanch1

[LTAWACS]

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the whole issue. It is about shameless elitism and distancing the main campus from an open admissions school which is perceived to produce lower-quality graduates.

I've had to explain the difference before, myself, to people unfamiliar with how the UH System is set up. Whether the circumstances reflect a kind of mean or elitist attitude within society or whether you find it personally insulting, the UH System should take action to mitigate the problems that the confusion causes. There's really nothing much else that they can do which would solve all the problems. A PR campaign to inform the public would have to go on indefinitely, and would have to have a very wide reach. And to have to roll out a PR campaign to explicitly distance the main campus from 'that other nearby open-enrollment school with a similar name' surely is even more embarrassing to the UH-D students and faculty than a discrete name change.

I disagree.

This reflects a greater flaw within society itself. Look around you. People don't know which way is south or north or east or west. They can barely tie their shoelaces. They mostly know how to get to work and back home. They don't use traffic signals. They talk on their cellphones. They watch sitcoms. They don't know the name of their local state representative.

So if all they know is who won last night's Grammy awards or who came out on top in American idol... It follows naturally that they won't know where downtown or Cullen are in relation to the ENTIRE city or to EACH other. Don't expect much.

If you expect "average" people to know things like the different locations of UHD and UHCentral then one would have to start at a very early age. I'm afraid it's already too late for most people and furthermore I regret to inform you that our governmental bodies (in local, state, and federal levels) including the leadership of UHS (UHCentral and UHD and METRO for that matter) are chock full of them. You give people too much credit.

The only embarrassment here is that people actually confuse the two.

[Highway6]

We are tired of people confusing our university with UHD, it happens more times than not. "What school do you go to?" I go to UH. "Oh the one downtown?" No, I go to central campus. "Wait there's two?" And the explaining begins.........

You should stop talking to fools..

I side with the majority of UH grads who has never once had a person ask to clarify which UH i went to.

There is only one UH. Any educated person that hears UH should assume the main campus.

If UH-D wants to distinguish themselves.. whatever.

but as a UH grad.. i dont feel their identity crisis affects me one way or another.

[skyphen]

I have to agree about some Houstonians not having a sense of place and people getting the two campuses confused. I met someone the other day who thought (UH) Third Ward was located (UHD) downtown... they didn't get that there was a difference between TW and DT at all. I've also known a person who referred to Midtown as downtown. They were both transplants who figure anything near downtown IS downtown. I think the lack of a sense of place and not knowing the city is a downside to the growth Houston has seen. These people may work downtown or may not, but spend most of the time bypassing these neighborhoods on the freeways. On the contrary, the natives I know here have a great sense of place and history and know the city neighborhoods very well.

[CoolBuddy06]

I have to agree about some Houstonians not having a sense of place and people getting the two campuses confused. I met someone the other day who thought (UH) Third Ward was located (UHD) downtown... they didn't get that there was a difference between TW and DT at all. I've also known a person who referred to Midtown as downtown. They were both transplants who figure anything near downtown IS downtown. I think the lack of a sense of place and not knowing the city is a downside to the growth Houston has seen. These people may work downtown or may not, but spend most of the time bypassing these neighborhoods on the freeways. On the contrary, the natives I know here have a great sense of place and history and know the city neighborhoods very well.

Those are still fair. I know a score people who think Med Center is downtown.

[crunchtastic]

Until they change the admissions policy, it's the University of Lowered Expectations.

Otherwise, I really like Infinite Jim's idea of Downtown Houston University.

Edited February 10, 2009 by crunchtastic

[LTAWACS]

I have to agree about some Houstonians not having a sense of place and people getting the two campuses confused. I met someone the other day who thought (UH) Third Ward was located (UHD) downtown... they didn't get that there was a difference between TW and DT at all. I've also known a person who referred to Midtown as downtown. They were both transplants who figure anything near downtown IS downtown. I think the lack of a sense of place and not knowing the city is a downside to the growth Houston has seen. These people may work downtown or may not, but spend most of the time bypassing these neighborhoods on the freeways. On the contrary, the natives I know here have a great sense of place and history and know the city neighborhoods very well.

Well, that's what happens when one lives in katy, woodwood forest, cut-and-shoot, willis, or some other far-flung suburb. Lack of sense and place there... lack of sense and place here.

Until they change the admissions policy, it's the University of Lowered Expectations.

Otherwise, I really like Infinite Jim's idea of Downtown Houston University.

You can still get kicked out. Just because anyone can get in does not mean everyone stays or finishes.

[KinkaidAlum]

Again, there is nothing wrong with The University of Houston aspiring to Tier I status and moving away from the "working man's U" identity. There's also nothing wrong with UH-Downtown taking over that role by being an open admissions college. The Metro area is approaching 6 million folks if we haven't already hit that mark and we need BOTH schools to propser.

However, my the main campus should have to change names?

I submit "Jefferson University" because they are movin' on up!

[N Judah]

They are not moving away from the "working man's U" identity.

http://www.thedailycougar.com/uh_to_seek_c...nsors-1.1331939

[TheNiche]

You should stop talking to fools..

I side with the majority of UH grads who has never once had a person ask to clarify which UH i went to.

There is only one UH. Any educated person that hears UH should assume the main campus.

If UH-D wants to distinguish themselves.. whatever.

but as a UH grad.. i dont feel their identity crisis affects me one way or another.

Many people don't know enough about the Universities of Houston to ask the difference, although when they do, my conversations typically look a lot like FalconRanch1's. But that's still a problem for you because folks graduating from a school with lower standards are lowering the perceived quality of the main campus' grads in the eyes of people who don't know the difference, of whom there are many.

EDIT: And it isn't easy to just stop talking to fools if you might ever have to work for them, work for you, sell to them, buy from them, or become related by law to you. Life is such that you often do not get to choose the company you keep.

Edited February 11, 2009 by TheNiche

[RedScare]

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the whole issue. It is about shameless elitism and distancing the main campus from an open admissions school which is perceived to produce lower-quality graduates.

I've had to explain the difference before, myself, to people unfamiliar with how the UH System is set up. Whether the circumstances reflect a kind of mean or elitist attitude within society or whether you find it personally insulting, the UH System should take action to mitigate the problems that the confusion causes. There's really nothing much else that they can do which would solve all the problems. A PR campaign to inform the public would have to go on indefinitely, and would have to have a very wide reach. And to have to roll out a PR campaign to explicitly distance the main campus from 'that other nearby open-enrollment school with a similar name' surely is even more embarrassing to the UH-D students and faculty than a discrete name change.

So, if I do not like TheNiche's username because people confuse it with mine, I can demand that TheNiche change his name?

This is the argument here. Because UH grads and students don't want to be confused with UHD grads and students, due to some mistaken belief that UHD drags their degree down, UH grads demand that UHD change THEIR name. That is a crock of cougar crap. If you don't like the confusion, change your own name. Not that it matters. In spite of all the whining to the contrary, any public perception that a UH degree is worth less than other degrees is UH's fault, not UHD's. They could change UHD's name all day long and it will not change the public's perception of UH one iota...well, except that we now see UH grads as a bunch of titty babies for all of this whiny name change crap.

[Highway6]

Many people don't know enough about the Universities of Houston to ask the difference, although when they do, my conversations typically look a lot like FalconRanch1's. But that's still a problem for you because folks graduating from a school with lower standards are lowering the perceived quality of the main campus' grads in the eyes of people who don't know the difference, of whom there are many.

EDIT: And it isn't easy to just stop talking to fools if you might ever have to work for them, work for you, sell to them, buy from them, or become related by law to you. Life is such that you often do not get to choose the company you keep.

You're right.. that was harsh and dumb of me.

Its also occurring to me why I've never had this problem. I never just tell people i 'went to UH' .. when it comes up I mention that i got my masters degree from UH. Is that even possible at UH-D? I also mention the program.. and there are certain programs that nobody would mistake for being at UH-D. Also.. maybe this helps too... I never say UH... I say the University of Houston.

Maybe I'm just naive... I didn't even know there was a UH-D until i moved back to houston and was in grad school. And i dont think I realized that t was a separate university and not just a satellite campus till my early days on HAIF.

Still, I've never had to explain which UH I went to nor do i feel that the existence of UH-D waters down my degree, so I care more about them wanting to change their name to something that might get confused with and/or devalue another local school.

Edited February 11, 2009 by Highway6

[TheNiche]

So, if I do not like TheNiche's username because people confuse it with mine, I can demand that TheNiche change his name?

This is the argument here. Because UH grads and students don't want to be confused with UHD grads and students, due to some mistaken belief that UHD drags their degree down, UH grads demand that UHD change THEIR name. That is a crock of cougar crap. If you don't like the confusion, change your own name. Not that it matters. In spite of all the whining to the contrary, any public perception that a UH degree is worth less than other degrees is UH's fault, not UHD's. They could change UHD's name all day long and it will not change the public's perception of UH one iota...well, except that we now see UH grads as a bunch of titty babies for all of this whiny name change crap.

No, that's a weak analogy.

If Editor, who created and owns the forum, didn't like someone named "Editor.", and so he wanted to change that, it would be closer to what you're shooting for. And yes, I'd say that he would be justified in doing so. It may not confuse us regulars, but it probably would confuse a fair number of others; and when you're dealing with the general public, you have to cater to the lowest common denominator of person.

[RedScare]

No, that's a weak analogy.

If Editor, who created and owns the forum, didn't like someone named "Editor.", and so he wanted to change that, it would be closer to what you're shooting for. And yes, I'd say that he would be justified in doing so. It may not confuse us regulars, but it probably would confuse a fair number of others; and when you're dealing with the general public, you have to cater to the lowest common denominator of person.

I am unpersuaded. And, since I am a member of the class of people you and the other UH grads wish to persuade (a non-UH graduate who you believe thinks less of your degree because of the existence of UHD), it is somewhat important that you have done such a poor job of persuading me.

Having attended and graduated from a school that does not have the luxury of a well known and prestigious name (similar to UH's problem), one might think that I'd be sympathetic to your plight. I am not. I have never been denied a job, a raise or a promotion based on the name on my diploma, and I suspect that neither have you. That being the case, this entire debate is nothing more than an exercise in pettiness.

[RedScare]

It occurred to me that another disingenuous part of your argument is that it is the ignorant general public that confuses the two. Who cares? These are not the people who are hiring you. And worse, you claim the general public is too ignorant to recognize that these are two different schools, yet intelligent enough to know the differing admissions policies between the two? Please. Spend your time and money improving the University of Houston and quit wasting your time worrying who rides its coattails.

[LTAWACS]

It occurred to me that another disingenuous part of your argument is that it is the ignorant general public that confuses the two. Who cares? These are not the people who are hiring you. And worse, you claim the general public is too ignorant to recognize that these are two different schools, yet intelligent enough to know the differing admissions policies between the two? Please. Spend your time and money improving the University of Houston and quit wasting your time worrying who rides its coattails.

An excellent point.

[TheNiche]

I am unpersuaded. And, since I am a member of the class of people you and the other UH grads wish to persuade (a non-UH graduate who you believe thinks less of your degree because of the existence of UHD), it is somewhat important that you have done such a poor job of persuading me.

Having attended and graduated from a school that does not have the luxury of a well known and prestigious name (similar to UH's problem), one might think that I'd be sympathetic to your plight. I am not. I have never been denied a job, a raise or a promotion based on the name on my diploma, and I suspect that neither have you. That being the case, this entire debate is nothing more than an exercise in pettiness.

The argument you put forth was still a weak analogy. And your response has done nothing to convince me otherwise.

How would you know that you had been denied something on that basis? Here's how job hunting typically works: you send a resume to a firm wanting to hire someone like yourself; you are one of possibly dozens of educationally-qualified applicants; they screen all resumes to come up with a reasonable number of qualified people to interview; if you are screened out they may or may not tell you that you were rejected but they probably will not tell you why.

A resume is about getting a foot in the door. From that point on (hiring decision, raises, promotions), the force of one's personality becomes the most critical aspect. I was actually lucky in that I had cultivated a good network of professionals in Houston while I was working full time during my education at UH. After landing the first job, resumes became unnecessary (up to now, since my industry seems to be in a coma). The ability to network in a business-oriented town with little competition from other college students is one of UH's unacknowledged strengths IMO.

It occurred to me that another disingenuous part of your argument is that it is the ignorant general public that confuses the two. Who cares? These are not the people who are hiring you. And worse, you claim the general public is too ignorant to recognize that these are two different schools, yet intelligent enough to know the differing admissions policies between the two? Please. Spend your time and money improving the University of Houston and quit wasting your time worrying who rides its coattails.

The general public is not a single entity, confused one way to the exclusion of another. It is made up of individuals that can be differently confused.

And resume gatekeepers can be snobbish, ignorant, or both. It doesn't mean that you'll be working for them.

[totheskies]

It occurred to me that another disingenuous part of your argument is that it is the ignorant general public that confuses the two. Who cares? These are not the people who are hiring you. And worse, you claim the general public is too ignorant to recognize that these are two different schools, yet intelligent enough to know the differing admissions policies between the two? Please. Spend your time and money improving the University of Houston and quit wasting your time worrying who rides its coattails.

The move to change UH-D's name is internal... started by President Castillo himself. He has led a movement to try and change the name for a couple of years, but he didn't have system support until Dr. Khator was installed as Chancellor. Jay Gouge (like many of the faculty at UH-D) thought it was a dumb idea.

And I guess you don't live in Houston, don't read the newspaper, have never listened to KUHF, and don't watch television. UofH is working VERY hard to become a top-tier institution. Even last week, Gov. Perry was on campus to announce that UH had earned another $5.5 million in research dollars, and has started a partnership with the Methodist Hospital Research Institute (link). So the University of Houston is doing its part to become a more distinguished institution, and that has nothing to do with whether or not UH-D changes its name.

I suppose that I'm "petty" b/c I went to UH... especially considering that UofH has a Bachelors, Masters and Doctorate in my field of study, but I can't even complete a minor in the field at UH-D. Sounds petty to me.

Edited February 11, 2009 by totheskies

[LTAWACS]

The move to change UH-D's name is internal... started by President Castillo himself. He has led a movement to try and change the name for a couple of years, but he didn't have system support until Dr. Khator was installed as Chancellor. Jay Gouge (like many of the faculty at UH-D) thought it was a dumb idea.

So they say.

And I guess you don't live in Houston, don't read the newspaper, have never listened to KUHF, and don't watch television. UofH is working VERY hard to become a top-tier institution. Even last week, Gov. Perry was on campus to announce that UH had earned another $5.5 million in research dollars, and has started a partnership with the Methodist Hospital Research Institute (link). So the University of Houston is doing its part to become a more distinguished institution, and that has nothing to do with whether or not UH-D changes its name.

What's the point of belonging to the UH system then?

I suppose that I'm "petty" b/c I went to UH... especially considering that UofH has a Bachelors, Masters and Doctorate in my field of study, but I can't even complete a minor in the field at UH-D. Sounds petty to me.

I dont understand. UHD has several master's programs. No phd at this time.

[skyphen]

These are all pretty terrible choices. Are these the finalists? I guess one with Southeast in the name if we have to go directional. Definitely not South Texas. There's a South Texas College of Law downtown... they'll be right back here in a few years if they change it to that. UST... TSU... both of which we already got. Terrible choices.

It will be interesting to see if this name change affects their enrollment numbers any. Some alumni I've known liked the association/confusion with UH main campus.

Not to mention we are in Southeast Texas, not South Texas. Culturally and geographically different worlds. Ugh. Again, terrible choices.

[skyphen]

I really would have liked Houston Metropolitan University or City College of Houston. There's a City College of San Francisco. I always thought that had a cute ring to it. It's short, sweet, and to the point, if nothing else. Suggests the open admissions policy, mission, and location of the college in few words, and there would have been absolutely no mistaking it for any other college.

Edited February 15, 2009 by skyphen

[N Judah]

I really would have liked Houston Metropolitan University or City College of Houston. There's a City College of San Francisco. I always thought that had a cute ring to it. It's short, sweet, and to the point, if nothing else. Suggests the open admissions policy, mission, and location of the college in few words, and there would have been absolutely no mistaking it for any other college.

I liked the "City College" idea too but it was ruled out of contention. I think this was due to the fact that the "city colleges" (in california, and probably elsewhere) are community colleges, which UHD certainly is not.

[KinkaidAlum]

The best City College system is in NYC. There are several branches there that are fairly well regarded (Hunter College springs to mind). None of them are JCs.

[totheskies]

I liked the "City College" idea too but it was ruled out of contention. I think this was due to the fact that the "city colleges" (in california, and probably elsewhere) are community colleges, which UHD certainly is not.

No, that just depends on the university. The CUNY system is comprehensive schools, and some of the City collges are as well.

I still think a name like "Houston City University" would work well just b/c it is distinct, but it doesn't overshadow any other institutions.

[Davidlfj]

I would just like to say that first of all, Ford_Guy, you should really re-read your posts for errors..."but never late than ever," pretty sure the saying is "better late than never." UHD, UH-Main, UH-Clear Lake, and UH-Victoria ARE CONNECTED. The president of each school sits on a UH board of presidents. They are the ones who make the decisions for each school. To say that they aren't connected is pretty silly. Even if UHD wasn't connected, UH-Main Campus would still be referred to as the central or main campus because you still have the Clear Lake and the Victoria Campus. For someone talking about how people lying is so wrong, why do you lie about the fact that you only attended UH-Main Campus? In an earlier post on this very discussion you said that you attended UHD for one class. One is not the same as none, so you went to both UHD and UH-Central.

Also, UHD has not changed its name yet. It will probably be taking place late next year (2010).

[Davidlfj]

there are thousands if not tens of thousands of employers in Houston and many probably have HR people that are not from Houston or do not even live in Houston and many probably do not keep up with the daily goings on of universities and their affiliations to one another....but they probably do know the basics that UH means a quality college of business and a quality college of engineering and could easily assume that UHD holds to those same standards when that is far from the truth....A college education is about what is learned in and out of the classroom and that experience is heightened in a residential campus setting with tenure track, full time faculty VS a commuter campus with part time adjuncts

UH has worked to elevate their status and their students in many departments have worked hard to be admitted and graduate from those departments and they deserve to have recognition for that and not be confused with others

and just because you have a conspiracy theory behind why there is a push for a name change that does not mean it is true

no wonder our country is growing fuller of lazy slackers every day.....when people work hard for something people like you wish to call them "big", evil, or elitist, and wish to reward others the same that did not put in the same effort and were not subjected to the same rigors for their education

If it is as you see it then there is nothing to worry about for those at UHD because all that matters is a piece of paper that says degree on it and a major and what school is comes from is of no consequence so people coming out of UHD with a different name will have nothing at all to worry about because they have the piece of paper, but we all know that in reality this is far from true and that is what bothers people like you the most.....that some would actually wish to work harder and separate themselves from the pack and then be rewarded for it.......and we all know to make America better we need to end thinking like that and reward all equally no matter how much or how little effort they put in because that is "fair" and really good touchy feelies for everyone

also the name change might not make a difference over night, but UH is about to raise admissions dramatically which will mean that UHD and other schools will become larger because they will catch those that did not get admitted to UH.....UH suffers from a very low graduation % and as they raise admissions and bring in more residential students and try and raise their graduation % and their external funded research and their % of graduate students the difference between a degree from UH and UHD will grow larger so the time to make a name change is at the time when UH is looking to further elevate themselves not after it is all done....so the time to make the change is now, not after UH becomes a nationally recognized graduate and research university with an even higher level of funding and higher quality faculty and students

Let's see, first of all, I have attended both universities, and I prefer UHD. I think the faculty is more competent, I know that the staff is, and I prefer the small classroom environment. I am graduating this spring with a BBA in Accounting (not Accountancy Ford_Guy) from the UHD College of Business. Both UHD and UH-Main are accredited by the AACSB, which only about 15% of universities in the US are, and the classes needed for graduation at UHD are the same as at UH-Main, except that UHD requires one extra class (Business Cornerstone). I will agree with you that UH-Main is more prestigious than UHD, but that is exactly the point. UHD is for real people, who have lives, jobs, family, and responsibility. This is one of the reasons it costs far less (about 30-40% compared to UH-Central), has open admissions, and FULL-TIME FACULTY. Not all of the faculty at UHD are adjuncts, in fact most are full-time.

When I was at UH-Main most of what I saw was what I was, an irresponsible teenager. I see some of that at UHD, but in my experience it is a much smaller percentage. Most of the people I see are there to get a degree that doesn't cost them a small fortune, and UH-Main is expensive if you are paying for it yourself, like I was. Let's face it, if you are a white male in this country there aren't ANY scholarships just for you, like there are for EVERY minority, and the ones you can apply for you are competing with everyone including the minorities that applied for that minority scholarship too. My high school, in Cy-Fair ISD, gave us out a list of scholarships that was about 35 pages long, and out of that only about 6 scholarships were even available to me as a white guy (there were about 65 scholarships in that list btw).

I am completely ok with UHD changing its name, so long as it is something that stays in-line with their mission statement (University of Hopes and Dreams isn't one of them). The students of UHD recently were given a survey of possible names for UHD and were asked to pick the 5 they most liked. Some of the stuff on there was just plain ridiculous. Gulf State University, Gulf Coast University, Seguin State University...the list of epic fails goes on. Personally, I would prefer something like Houston Central University or maybe Diversity University (just kidding on that one, lol). On the same subject, I know plenty of people who recognize that UHD and UH-Main are different campuses, but not that they are autonomous institutions belonging to the same board of oversight. To confuse where the campuses are is just lunacy though because UH-Main isn't even in downtown Houston, it is a few miles from it in an area significantly less safe than UHD.

Simply put, if an HR employee in charge of hiring business students, for example, doesn't know the difference between UH-Main and UHD, then they need to gain some insight and perspective. I do agree that most of the time (not always though) a company is looking for the piece of paper rather than what is on it, and the gpa helps some.

As a final note, UH-Main is too expensive, as well as almost all Texas public universities...thanks Gov. Perry for being a moron.

[totheskies]

First off... Davidlfj, welcome to the forum!!

Let's see, first of all, I have attended both universities, and I prefer UHD. I think the faculty is more competent, I know that the staff is, and I prefer the small classroom environment. I am graduating this spring with a BBA in Accounting (not Accountancy Ford_Guy) from the UHD College of Business. Both UHD and UH-Main are accredited by the AACSB, which only about 15% of universities in the US are, and the classes needed for graduation at UHD are the same as at UH-Main, except that UHD requires one extra class (Business Cornerstone). I will agree with you that UH-Main is more prestigious than UHD, but that is exactly the point. UHD is for real people, who have lives, jobs, family, and responsibility. This is one of the reasons it costs far less (about 30-40% compared to UH-Central), has open admissions, and FULL-TIME FACULTY. Not all of the faculty at UHD are adjuncts, in fact most are full-time.

I have not attended UHD, but I had the great opportunity to teach one course there. I got my Masters degree from UH-Main (by my considerations a very BIG school), and I got my Bachelors degree from a small school in Arkansas. I too would have been very uncomfortable doing my undergrad degree at a school the size of UofH. It's very confusing, and there are a lot of hoops to jump through, but very little help and direction given to the students. UHD is smaller, yes... but on some levels it still seems to be quite "impersonal"... I don't know if that's because of the different social structure (more non-traditional students) or what.

When I was at UH-Main most of what I saw was what I was, an irresponsible teenager. I see some of that at UHD, but in my experience it is a much smaller percentage. Most of the people I see are there to get a degree that doesn't cost them a small fortune, and UH-Main is expensive if you are paying for it yourself, like I was. Let's face it, if you are a white male in this country there aren't ANY scholarships just for you, like there are for EVERY minority, and the ones you can apply for you are competing with everyone including the minorities that applied for that minority scholarship too. My high school, in Cy-Fair ISD, gave us out a list of scholarships that was about 35 pages long, and out of that only about 6 scholarships were even available to me as a white guy (there were about 65 scholarships in that list btw).

Right, b/c no matter which way you slice it, MOST of the wealth and economic advancement in this country is still held by the upper-middle class white population. I am an African American, and a first generation college student, and from a state where I am definitely a minority, and from a poor family. As much as some people like to "imagine" that all things are equal in this country, it's just not the truth. My grandfather had a third grade education, my grandmother had a 5th grade education. My parents were lucky to finish high school. Going to college was kind of a big deal for me. That's why all of those "minority" scholarships exist... b/c people need them.

I am completely ok with UHD changing its name, so long as it is something that stays in-line with their mission statement (University of Hopes and Dreams isn't one of them). The students of UHD recently were given a survey of possible names for UHD and were asked to pick the 5 they most liked. Some of the stuff on there was just plain ridiculous. Gulf State University, Gulf Coast University, Seguin State University...the list of epic fails goes on. Personally, I would prefer something like Houston Central University or maybe Diversity University (just kidding on that one, lol). On the same subject, I know plenty of people who recognize that UHD and UH-Main are different campuses, but not that they are autonomous institutions belonging to the same board of oversight. To confuse where the campuses are is just lunacy though because UH-Main isn't even in downtown Houston, it is a few miles from it in an area significantly less safe than UHD.

I live very near Third Ward, and I stayed on campus while I was doing my Masters. I have worked Downtown in several capacities, and have been there many many times at night (in the UHD area also). UHD is by no means, and in no way "safer" than UH-Main. Third Ward has a lot of poor people, but it also has a very concerned population of church members, UH-Main's police force, and the regular HPD regional headquarters. What we don't have is the Harris County jail right next to us, or a bevvy of bail bondsman in our midst.