Olympics 2008

[Rammer]

Basketball Reality Check

The best players on the planet play in the NBA.

There are more than 100 players in the Olympics who could NEVER play in the NBA.

China's basketball coach, Jonas Kazlauskas, is from Lithuania...so much for true nationalism.

Becky Hammon, from South Dakota, is playing on the Russian team in the Olympics. She has no Russian blood or ties to Russia. She simply wasn't selected to play on the USA team.

The NBA has players from different countries, ethnicities, and cultures all playing together.(desegregation).

Meanwhile, the Olympic teams separate players based on those same values(segregation).

Which is a higher moral ideal?

The rules are different, the three point line is different, the referees are all different.

In other words, our American invented game has been changed.

It's possible in the future that some of the greatest players might play in Europe because of the Euro/Dollar factor....but it hasn't happened yet. As of today, the best players play in the NBA.($$$)

Many of the best basketball players simply choose not to play in the Olympics.

Olympic basketball is a joke.

[wernicke]

Olympic basketball is a joke.

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, BUT... like it or not, the 2004 Men's Olympic team was made up of NBA All-Stars and they wound up losing to Puerto Rico, Lithuania, and Argentina (winning the bronze medal). Since the players were undoubtedly of higher quality than their opponents, the only conclusion you can come to is that the "stars" have trouble taking the Olympics seriously and have problems putting their ego's aside to play as a cohesive group.

I will say that the 2008 team seems to have checked their ego's, and are treating the Olympics with much more respect... with LeBron, Chris Paul, and Jason Kidd supporting Team USA in the stands at swimming/volleyball.

Your point about segregation is silly... it is the Olympics, where athletes represent their country of origin (with a few exceptions).

[Rammer]

I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, BUT... like it or not, the 2004 Men's Olympic team was made up of NBA All-Stars and they wound up losing to Puerto Rico, Lithuania, and Argentina (winning the bronze medal). Since the players were undoubtedly of higher quality than their opponents, the only conclusion you can come to is that the "stars" have trouble taking the Olympics seriously and have problems putting their ego's aside to play as a cohesive group.

I will say that the 2008 team seems to have checked their ego's, and are treating the Olympics with much more respect... with LeBron, Chris Paul, and Jason Kidd supporting Team USA in the stands at swimming/volleyball.

Your point about segregation is silly... it is the Olympics, where athletes represent their country of origin (with a few exceptions).

The point is, we don't need Olympic basketball...we already have the NBA!

Leave the Olympics to the great athletes who need the exposure.

[TJones]

The parity between different countries in swimming has been really impressive... the rest of the world is catching up to US and Australia. The top 5 teams all broke the WR set by the US 'B' team in prelims (USA, France, AUS, ITA, SWE), which is unheard of in recent times.

It's the Lazer suit wernicke, it's the suit !!!

[RedScare]

The point is, we don't need Olympic basketball...we already have the NBA!

Leave the Olympics to the great athletes who need the exposure.

One of the all-time great excuses for losing. You...and USA Basketball...should be proud.

The fact is, other than a game of HORSE, basketball is a team sport. If US athletes cannot use their formidable individual skillsets to form a formidable team, then they are not the best basketball players. Perhaps they are the most athletic or talented, but the game is still a team sport, and a talented player must not only be able to run, jump, dribble and shoot, but also to rebound, play defense and find the open man. It is telling that none of the players on the US roster has a championship to his credit in recent memory.

[TJones]

One of the all-time great excuses for losing. You...and USA Basketball...should be proud.

The fact is, other than a game of HORSE, basketball is a team sport. If US athletes cannot use their formidable individual skillsets to form a formidable team, then they are not the best basketball players. Perhaps they are the most athletic or talented, but the game is still a team sport, and a talented player must not only be able to run, jump, dribble and shoot, but also to rebound, play defense and find the open man. It is telling that none of the players on the US roster has a championship to his credit in recent memory.

I think, in the future, that America should simply send out one NBA team to each Olympic, not choose a bunch of All-stars that try to learn as a new team, perhaps get that year's NBA championship team to represent. It is supposed to be an honor to be picked. You have to figure that teams like Russia and China, play together for years, I think it would be easier just to send our best team for that year to represent.

The thing is that we want to showcase our very best and hottest players for the WORLD to see all together. I understand this, it is just a big publicity stunt for the U.S. and the Olympics to get a few more tickets sales. Nobody really wants to see just one team with ONE star on it, unless it were the Michael Jordan era Bulls.

[musicman]

B. Karolyi Takes Aim At Age Requirement

Bela Karolyi, the former coach who crafted Olympic champions Nadia Comaneci and Mary Lou Retton, accused China of "dirty cheating" for fielding gymnasts he believes to be underage in the Beijing Games.

"Are we stupid or what?" Karolyi said in an interview yesterday after watching China's female gymnasts perform at the National Indoor Stadium. "They are obviously kids -- 12 or 14 [years old], max -- and you're telling the world they are 16? What arrogance!"

Karolyi dismissed the remedy proposed by the International Gymnastics Federation -- a competitor's license certifying each athlete's age according to passport data -- as meaningless.

"The passport is made by the Chinese government," Karolyi said. "They can do any kind of documents."

Instead, he argued that the only solution was to abandon the age minimum altogether and let gymnasts as young as 11 or 12 compete in international meets.

[musicman]

phelps just won his 10th gold.

[memebag]

Instead, he argued that the only solution was to abandon the age minimum altogether and let gymnasts as young as 11 or 12 compete in international meets.

I think they should take a core sample and count the rings.

[Jeebus]

Watching Phelps & team last night was phenomenal. Experts say that all the attributes of the pool as well as the suit helped contribute to their times. I wonder if London in 2016 will build a pool to these specs, or to previous specs. It seems without the pool, no one will be able to touch those times.

As for watching the Chinese women's gymnastic team take the gold, I was disgusted. They have 1.3 billion people, and yet still had to sink to getting some 14 year olds to get the job done. Here's a NY Times article revealing the story. Absolutely disgusting.

[20thStDad]

IMO the age thing shouldn't matter. Why is a 12 year old better? The 16-18 year old should be better from more years of training. We lost because we fell off the beam and for some reason can't decide to take one less step on a floor run in order to not step out of bounds. How simple is that? Anyway, I don't care about age. If a 10 year old is the best whatever in the world, let them compete and win. Are we trying to say that we have a bunch of 12-14 year olds that would have come in and blown this thing away? Doesn't change the fact that we just screwed up. And it was pretty painful to watch. Biased pro-US announcer didn't help, just kept telling us we were going to nail this trick or beat this score. Shut up, dude.

[Jeebus]

IMO the age thing shouldn't matter. Why is a 12 year old better? The 16-18 year old should be better from more years of training. We lost because we fell off the beam and for some reason can't decide to take one less step on a floor run in order to not step out of bounds. How simple is that? Anyway, I don't care about age. If a 10 year old is the best whatever in the world, let them compete and win. Are we trying to say that we have a bunch of 12-14 year olds that would have come in and blown this thing away? Doesn't change the fact that we just screwed up. And it was pretty painful to watch. Biased pro-US announcer didn't help, just kept telling us we were going to nail this trick or beat this score. Shut up, dude.

Yes! Finally a mature response! "Shut up, dude!" Thanks! I would just love to know why you think a person who is 10 to 20 pounds heavier and is more likely to have been injured from more repetition should be better than someone 2 to 4 years younger, less likely to have been injured as many times over their career and have less total weight to try and balance? Please Bela Karolyi, enlighten us all.

Age should definately matter. If it didn't then it would make the sport even more competitive and more detrimental to an already rigorous and stressful lifestyle of these young kids. But what do you care? As long as NBC cheers for China, since its their olympics and all - even though they're main viewing audeince is American.

You're obviously right. Go China. God forbid we all play by the same set of rules. Whatever China wants right? Besides, it's their Olympics.

I'll shut up now and go look for another forum, maybe one with some American pride. All this blind China fever is making nauseous.

[Trae]

No man, the 12 year olds have the advantage, especially in something like gymnastics. Their shorter borders make it easier to land tricks and stay in bounds (per my sister).

[20thStDad]

Yes! Finally a mature response! "Shut up, dude!" Thanks! I would just love to know why you think a person who is 10 to 20 pounds heavier and is more likely to have been injured from more repetition should be better than someone 2 to 4 years younger, less likely to have been injured as many times over their career and have less total weight to try and balance? Please Bela Karolyi, enlighten us all.

Age should definately matter. If it didn't then it would make the sport even more competitive and more detrimental to an already rigorous and stressful lifestyle of these young kids. But what do you care? As long as NBC cheers for China, since its their olympics and all - even though they're main viewing audeince is American.

You're obviously right. Go China. God forbid we all play by the same set of rules. Whatever China wants right? Besides, it's their Olympics.

I'll shut up now and go look for another forum, maybe one with some American pride. All this blind China fever is making nauseous.

Wow, apparently I left a dangling comment...my "Shut up, dude" was directed at the biased announcer that I had commented on in the previous sentence...so, not you by any means. Sorry for the confusion.

I just don't buy that as you age from 12 to 16 and keep practicing you get worse at your sport. These girls are all tiny anyway, and as they train, they train with what little size they gain. I believe the reason we lost is because we messed up, not because China used 12 year olds against our 16-18 year olds. And I don't think we would automagically win it if we went and grabbed our best 12 year olds to go against theirs.

[Trae]

Okay.

[webdude]

Yes! Finally a mature response! "Shut up, dude!" Thanks! I would just love to know why you think a person who is 10 to 20 pounds heavier and is more likely to have been injured from more repetition should be better than someone 2 to 4 years younger, less likely to have been injured as many times over their career and have less total weight to try and balance? Please Bela Karolyi, enlighten us all.

Age should definately matter. If it didn't then it would make the sport even more competitive and more detrimental to an already rigorous and stressful lifestyle of these young kids. But what do you care? As long as NBC cheers for China, since its their olympics and all - even though they're main viewing audeince is American.

You're obviously right. Go China. God forbid we all play by the same set of rules. Whatever China wants right? Besides, it's their Olympics.

I'll shut up now and go look for another forum, maybe one with some American pride. All this blind China fever is making nauseous.

You mean one with blind American pride. Why give the gold to the best when you should only give it to Americans, because we are number one no matter what. What a arrogant assertion that because the viewing audience are mainly Americans, we should all be blind to other country's athleticism. This is the Olympics, not kids' baseball league. We watch for the best athletics of all countries, not just Americans. I am sure other ppl in countries are in awe of our swim team (well, besides France) too. Does it mean they are pro-American and hate their own country?

And I understand the abuse children angle, but to use the physique angle is just dumb, Should Michael Phelps be disqualified because his disproportionately extended torso and long arms are an unfair advantage?

[Trae]

No, but Michael Phelps is of age. Unlike the Chinese girls.

[20thStDad]

Yeah I didn't really get the pro-China angle Jeebus mentioned. I guess I didn't read the post(s) indicating that. Maybe I only speak for myself, but I feel that we lost it rather than they won it, so I'm disappointed in us as opposed to mad at them. Mostly I wanted someone to feed that girl whose liatard wasn't even tight on her. Is that even possible? Those things fit crazy tight on everyone, and this girl has hers flapping in the wind.

One thing I can guarantee is that if we set up these Olympic academies or whatever they call them where we ship our kids off when they are 4 years old, we would win at everything. But we (mostly) have kids with some kind of life/family outside of their sport, which to me is a better way to do things. To see that we still win a ton without going olympic-death-camp on all the sports says a lot about how great our country is.

EDIT: One added thought, I just don't believe on going back and trying to win on a technicality. And busting the minimum age is not the same as busting a max age like Danny Almonte pitching in the LLWS at age 14. Our best should beat their best, whatever age they send. Just like in my Y basketball league - the week we played the best team (they won the league), they only had 4 show up. minimum to play is 4. they beat us. at one point one of their guys got a technical foul at had to sit out for 1 minute, leaving them with 3 on the court - meaning technically they should forfeit, but I'm not about to call that out. They had 4 people (3 for a minute), we should have beaten them anyway. I get nothing out of whining and trying to get credit for a win like that.

[memebag]

I'm surprised you all care so much about this gymnastics stuff. It isn't like "we" won or lost something. A bunch of little skinny girls won and lost stuff. I don't care what country they're from.

[RedScare]

Yeah I didn't really get the pro-China angle Jeebus mentioned. I guess I didn't read the post(s) indicating that. Maybe I only speak for myself, but I feel that we lost it rather than they won it, so I'm disappointed in us as opposed to mad at them. Mostly I wanted someone to feed that girl whose liatard wasn't even tight on her. Is that even possible? Those things fit crazy tight on everyone, and this girl has hers flapping in the wind.

One thing I can guarantee is that if we set up these Olympic academies or whatever they call them where we ship our kids off when they are 4 years old, we would win at everything. But we (mostly) have kids with some kind of life/family outside of their sport, which to me is a better way to do things. To see that we still win a ton without going olympic-death-camp on all the sports says a lot about how great our country is.

It says to me that we have a population of over 300 million, 3rd largest in the world, with a sports crazed mindset, well nourished, with lots of disposable income available to be devoted to the admittedlynon-essential world of sport. We also have a sufficient number of obsessed parents wishing to live vicariously through their children to push them to excel at sports to provide the amount of time and dedication required to perform at world class levels.

I do not see this as a marker of a country's greatness as much as an indicator of our obsession with sports. A look at the primary broadcasters, sponsors and viewers of the Olympics shows that we are even better spectators than we are athletes. The Olympics would not even remotely exist in its present form without the level of US interest...and money...that exists.

[20thStDad]

It says to me that we have a population of over 300 million, 3rd largest in the world, with a sports crazed mindset, well nourished, with lots of disposable income available to be devoted to the admittedlynon-essential world of sport. We also have a sufficient number of obsessed parents wishing to live vicariously through their children to push them to excel at sports to provide the amount of time and dedication required to perform at world class levels.

I do not see this as a marker of a country's greatness as much as an indicator of our obsession with sports. A look at the primary broadcasters, sponsors and viewers of the Olympics shows that we are even better spectators than we are athletes. The Olympics would not even remotely exist in its present form without the level of US interest...and money...that exists.

I agree with you. In that regard I would like to amend my statement from

"...how great our country is."

to

"...how the freedoms our country offers allow for us to recreate in the spirit of fun and competition, which to me is far better than government forced lifetime participation in sporting events."

[RedScare]

I agree with you. In that regard I would like to amend my statement from

"...how great our country is."

to

"...how the freedoms our country offers allow for us to recreate in the spirit of fun and competition, which to me is far better than government forced lifetime participation in sporting events."

I see now why you went for the shorter, albeit less accurate statement.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I did think the story about them taking these little Chinese girls from their homes @ age three and only allowing the parents to visit them once a year at the gymnastics training center was a bit bazaar, and it remains that way until they retire from competition.

[memebag]

I did think the story about them taking these little Chinese girls from their homes @ age three and only allowing the parents to visit them once a year at the gymnastics training center was a bit bazaar, and it remains that way until they retire from competition.

It's not that bizarre for China. That's how their entertainment industry has worked for a long time. Kids are put in "schools" that operate sort of like for-profit orphanages. The kids are trained from a very young age and pay off their training with future performances. Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, John Lone and other popular Chinese actors grew up in this kind of system. The movie "Painted Faces" gives a good idea of what the system was like in 1960s Hong Kong.

[MidtownCoog]

I tried to start something similar in Texas but it failed:

[Jeebus]

You mean one with blind American pride. Why give the gold to the best when you should only give it to Americans, because we are number one no matter what. What a arrogant assertion that because the viewing audience are mainly Americans, we should all be blind to other country's athleticism. This is the Olympics, not kids' baseball league. We watch for the best athletics of all countries, not just Americans. I am sure other ppl in countries are in awe of our swim team (well, besides France) too. Does it mean they are pro-American and hate their own country?

That's not at all what I am saying. You make about as much sense as a Tennessee fan complaining that Texans commentators on KHOU are not fairly commentating on the game. I really doubt other countries are focused on fairly portraying other countries as much as we are, in this overly sensitive p.c. environment. The Olympics are about country pride. Last time I checked, I lived in the United States, and thus want to cheer for my countrymen & women.

And I understand the abuse children angle, but to use the physique angle is just dumb, Should Michael Phelps be disqualified because his disproportionately extended torso and long arms are an unfair advantage?

The physique is directly related to their age. Bodies that are lighter & less abused (from age & injury) are better. To not understand that is dumb.

Yeah I didn't really get the pro-China angle Jeebus mentioned. I guess I didn't read the post(s) indicating that. Maybe I only speak for myself, but I feel that we lost it rather than they won it, so I'm disappointed in us as opposed to mad at them.

So rather than focus on the fact that they had to cheat to win, you'd rather just focus on us for losing?

I just don't believe on going back and trying to win on a technicality. I get nothing out of whining and trying to get credit for a win like that.

No one is saying to do that, but its impossible to celebrate a silver, when you know that had China played by the rules (meaning that they would have not had those two girls that were under sixteen, but instead the two less talented girls they replaced) we might have won gold.

I don't blame our girls for losing at all. I blame China for being so petty that they would change a 14 year old's passport just to win a game.

[RedScare]

I don't blame our girls for losing at all. I blame China for being so petty

That's the American spirit!

[20thStDad]

The physique is directly related to their age. Bodies that are lighter & less abused (from age & injury) are better. To not understand that is dumb.

Dumb...right. Gymnastics is a skill sport, the more practice - in general and at your routines - the better you get. Yes, at some point the body starts to deteriorate and get worn out. But I don't believe for a second that it always goes downhill after age 12-13. Please. If that were true why did China bother to keep the one 20 year old on their team? And if they remove the age limit are you saying that you are positive that no one would have anyone over 15 on their team? I doubt it.

The only point to understand is that we didn't win because we fell off the damn beam and stepped out on all of our floor exercises. That's how you get silver instead of gold, it's a simple formula.

[HtownWxBoy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...lbow-front.html

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

[20thStDad]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...lbow-front.html

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

DANG!! I was hoping there wouldn't be pictures, but then I couldn't stop looking at them. Not cool.