Black in America

[sheeats]

I will later. My hot dogs are boiling right now. That's priority.

...wait. You boil your hot dogs??

Whites put Africans in poverty and kept them there since 1619, to what some could argue strongly, tell today. If 400 plus years of telling a people there stupid, ugly, not equal as whites, criminals, and much more horrible things, then there will be a blame on whites because of there status in America today. I can't figure out why some whites cant see that. It is going to have to take more than what America has done to reverse the effects of racism. It is true that too many African-Americans are waiting on the goverment and not doing anything to get out of proverty on there own, but it is also true, that many blacks have done all they can and then some to pull themselfs out of poverty but cant because of racism.

Sorry, but no.

Slavery and oppression have been around as long as human beings have been around. Not only white people have held/traded slaves, and not only black people have been slaves/oppressed. You'd have to ignore every single shred of written history to believe that. Africans held other Africans as slaves/indentured servants long before the Arabs or the Europeans ever arrived on the continent. The Arabs introduced the slave trade itself, something the Portugese picked up around the 16th century. "White" people didn't come up with the ideas of slavery or oppression; they have always existed.

The Romans used to hold Irish, Germanic, Jewish, North African people -- you name the territory, really -- as slaves. Non-Catholics were tortured and burned during the Inquistion. Muslims were cruelly slaughtered during the Crusades. The Jewish people have been enslaved and oppressed over thousands of years, not to mention the fact that someone tried to exterminate them as recently as 70 years ago.

To claim that you are a special group, set apart from all others, because of the fact that you were oppressed or treated cruelly over a period of time -- no matter how long that period of time -- doesn't make you different. It doesn't make you worthy of special treatment or indulgences. It makes you part of the human race. Oppression and cruelty is a part of human history for every single race, ethnicity, religion, creed, etc. Trying to argue differently is futile.

We all screw up, we try to make amends, some of us may never change our stupid, hateful, ignorant ways (I'm speaking pointedly at small pockets of America that still harbor some sort of resentment or racism towards black people), but to continue to short-sightedly hold "slavery" against "whites" only means that the wounds will never heal. It takes forgiveness and cooperation from both sides to make a change.

Just my two cents...

[Fringe]

Amen to that sheeats. There comes a time when you have to quit blaming someone else for your problems and look within.

[houstonmacbro]

Amen to that sheeats. There comes a time when you have to quit blaming someone else for your problems and look within.

I don't think Black America is blaming anyone. I think what is being said is that the board is STILL unfairly stacked against it.

For everyone to just say that institutional and often government and business condoned racism doesn't, didn't or won't still affect things is just wrong.

Only recently has there been anything even approaching an even-playing field and it is far from perfect.

Saying it ain't so is ignoring the reality of the situation for millions of people.

[houstonmacbro]

Rap music, I think, is generally garbage. Especially the kind that is played so loudly, that it vibrates the license plates on my car, in my garage. As far as I am concerned, that kind of music can be RETURNED to those who wrote it/like it. NO THANKS.

Seems like the liberal bastion of culture and history thinks differently

Recognize! Hip Hop and Contemporary Portraiture

http://www.npg.si.edu/exhibit/recognize/visit.html

[BryanS]

Seems like the liberal bastion of culture and history thinks differently

Recognize! Hip Hop and Contemporary Portraiture

http://www.npg.si.edu/exhibit/recognize/visit.html

If they had the kind of music, that I've heard, at the volumes I've heard, none of those paintings/portraits would be left hanging in that gallery.

The rap music I've heard is pure garbage. My opinion. Read some of the lyrics (of the more objectionable

[houstonmacbro]

If they had the kind of music, that I've heard, at the volumes I've heard, none of those paintings/portraits would be left hanging in that gallery.

The rap music I've heard is pure garbage. My opinion. Read some of the lyrics (of the more objectionable

[musicman]

Racism does not affect everyone. What are you saying?

Have you ever been PRE-judged because of the color of your skin? Been eyed suspiciously while shopping because of the color of your skin? Had people cross the street? Avert their eyes because of the color of your skin? Have you ever been stopped by the police for no reason other than driving while black (or increasingly driving while Latino)? Passed over for a job, promotion, or not even hired because of your skin color (or ethnicity)?

I agree, hard work has gotten many African Americans and others where they are and thankfully the old vestiges of racism are slowly starting to ebb, but there is still a lot of work to do. Racism does still exist and saying it doesn't because it's an unpleasant topic for you doesn't make it so.

like i said earlier racism affects everyone. it's not just a black thing. i have been prejudged just as everyone here has. it might not be obvious to you because your blinders are on. old vestiges of racism are still here and yes there is work to do, but in order to be sucessful you have to work and move forward. it is very disconcerting that the lady in the article said It was a whole set of values that were not learned, so they can't be passed down. things can be learned and ARE learned by many. even poor people.

I am not one to blame anyone for my station in life......

But that does not erase the situation that existed in this country that systematically condoned by businesses and the government that kept millions of people down while giving others a free pass. This occurred in housing, in banking, in government. You can't just say it didn't happen and it didn't affect the progress and development of a whole class of folks.

Personally, I'd like to get past race, but some folks in this country (from all 'races' --another misnomer) won't let us move past skin color and see that we're all simply Americans.

you like to get past race but then you say but that does not erase the situation that existed in this country. sounds like you're not past it yourself.

[houstonmacbro]

like i said earlier racism affects everyone. it's not just a black thing. i have been prejudged just as everyone here has. it might not be obvious to you because your blinders are on. old vestiges of racism are still here and yes there is work to do, but in order to be sucessful you have to work and move forward. it is very disconcerting that the lady in the article said It was a whole set of values that were not learned, so they can't be passed down. things can be learned and ARE learned by many. even poor people.

you like to get past race but then you say but that does not erase the situation that existed in this country. sounds like you're not past it yourself.

I'm a realist.

I try to treat everyone as I like to be treated, but find that I do not always get treated the way I treat others.

I'm a realist.

I try to treat everyone as I like to be treated, but find that I do not always get treated the way I treat others.

Let me also ask a question.

Do Jewish people ever just 'get over it'. Do you expect them to forget what happened to millions of their people?

Why do you expect me to just get past how things were and still affect how things are?

[houstonmacbro]

like i said earlier racism affects everyone. it's not just a black thing. i have been prejudged just as everyone here has.

How have you been pre-judged? And how does any way that you could be pre-judged based on sexuality, hair color, or religion be equated to being pre-judged as bad, not worthy of advancement, criminally suspicious (as Blacks often are) based on skin color.

I am really interested in this one.

[sheeats]

How have you been pre-judged? And how does any way that you could be pre-judged based on sexuality, hair color, or religion be equated to being pre-judged as bad, not worthy of advancement, criminally suspicious (as Blacks often are) based on skin color.

I am really interested in this one.

I'm really interested in why you think that only black people have been (or are currently) misjudged, mistreated or viewed as inferior. What an appallingly narrow-minded attitude to have.

Shall I start listing the other races/ethnicities/religions/sexualities that have to deal with this on a daily basis? Is that really what this thread is coming to?

[musicman]

I'm a realist.

I try to treat everyone as I like to be treated, but find that I do not always get treated the way I treat others.

that happens to all of us.

[houstonmacbro]

I'm really interested in why you think that only black people have been (or are currently) misjudged, mistreated or viewed as inferior. What an appallingly narrow-minded attitude to have.

Shall I start listing the other races/ethnicities/religions/sexualities that have to deal with this on a daily basis? Is that really what this thread is coming to?

No, I do not. And in fact I mentioned Hispanics and Latinos in one of my previous posts, but I was interested specifically in how musicman has been pre-judged?

I am not one of those other groups so I cannot speak for all of their issues. But I'd certainly like to hear about them.

[sheeats]

I think he pretty much addressed it spot on with the post above: "that happens to all of us."

No one follows the Golden Rule to the letter. Some people don't follow it at all. Every individual has been pre-judged, misjudged or treated poorly at some point. Just because it wasn't on the basis of race doesn't meant it wasn't important or impactful to them.

I'm sure that everyone in here can come up with at least one defining moment in their lives when they were misjudged or mistreated because of something over which they have little or no control: things like obesity, an "unaesthetic" face, acne, bad glasses, braces, a handicap, a mental illness, their sexuality, their religion, their second-hand or untrendy clothing, their income level, their parent's socioeconomic status, their small size, their lack of athleticism, their intelligence, their womanly figure, their lack of a womanly figure, their penis size, their feet size, their nose size -- ANYTHING.

However, that doesn't mean those individuals can use that treatment as an excuse or a crutch. The really important thing is that you move on, you prove people wrong, you live your life and you treat others as you would want to be treated.

[musicman]

No, I do not. And in fact I mentioned Hispanics and Latinos in one of my previous posts, but I was interested specifically in how musicman has been pre-judged?

I am not one of those other groups so I cannot speak for all of their issues. But I'd certainly like to hear about them.

you should stop by happy days on saturday. but i will get back to this this afternoon. gotta teach a class

[houstonmacbro]

that happens to all of us.

And I am not naive enough to believe that how I am mistreated is always (or even mostly) related to race.

Many people are just a**holes.

However, that doesn't mean those individuals can use that treatment as an excuse or a crutch. The really important thing is that you move on, you prove people wrong, you live your life and you treat others as you would want to be treated.

I think on this subject we can all agree. At least I agree.

I keep on moving.

Some people on my block don't like me. Not because I'm black, but because my partner is a man. And Hispanic at that.

So you do move on, you go about your business and be a better person because you know you are.

[crunchtastic]

People don't like to get into the skin color issue and prefer to sidestep it with the "but it's not just black people" argument.

Skin color is visual, and visceral, and any cultural anthropologist will tell you--is a basis for bigotry in most all societies (of course it may not take the same form or pattern). Any black person will tell you that is the basis of bigotry among black people.

People of many different races, religions, and beliefs have been persecuted. I am not suggesting that one group's persecution was more oppressive than another's. But--skin color is an issue of singular importance for blacks. Black men in particular. Put 2 jewish men, 2 hispanic men, 2 gay men, and 2 black men togehter on the street at various points, and I doubt you will see someone pulling there purse tighter to their chest when they walk past the jews, hispanics or gays. That is the power of skin color. If I were a black man, I think I'd be getting tired of being told to get over it.

[houstonmacbro]

If I were a black man, I think I'd be getting tired of being told to get over it.

You better be careful lest someone tell you on this forum that you too should get over it.

Honestly, I am used to the argument, but I will not let it die just because it makes people uncomfortable. I experience what I experience and no one is gonna psyche me out and tell me my expeiences are all in my head and to just get past it.

You are so right about the experiment. I am often aware of how people react (usually white women) when they see me. They will often lock their doors quickly. Look at my hands (I guess to see if my keys are a gun?), and will keep an eye on me as if I want to pounce on them (Note to women ... I ain't interested!).

So anyhow, it's funny, but not funny. If you know what I mean.

One more thing. (I guess an after thought)

I am not one of those people that think that all (or even most) white people are racists.

As mentioned earlier, I think we all have our biases against or for something or another.

[sowanome]

...wait. You boil your hot dogs??

Sorry, but no.

Slavery and oppression have been around as long as human beings have been around. Not only white people have held/traded slaves, and not only black people have been slaves/oppressed. You'd have to ignore every single shred of written history to believe that. Africans held other Africans as slaves/indentured servants long before the Arabs or the Europeans ever arrived on the continent. The Arabs introduced the slave trade itself, something the Portugese picked up around the 16th century. "White" people didn't come up with the ideas of slavery or oppression; they have always existed.

The Romans used to hold Irish, Germanic, Jewish, North African people -- you name the territory, really -- as slaves. Non-Catholics were tortured and burned during the Inquistion. Muslims were cruelly slaughtered during the Crusades. The Jewish people have been enslaved and oppressed over thousands of years, not to mention the fact that someone tried to exterminate them as recently as 70 years ago.

To claim that you are a special group, set apart from all others, It makes you part of the human race. Oppression and cruelty is a part of human history for every single race, ethnicity, religion, creed, etc.

Ok, but let's stay in "America"...Europe and other non American experiences are not 100% relevant to what's happened in America...It seems that other places have gotten past their issues but America can't bc of the amount of Denial and that the fact that America and it's Economy was built on the back of America's Minorities, but yet White America asks it's minorities why they are at the bottom in regards to Economic Status..Just think about it starting with:

1. Native Americans >> White America took their land and casted them off to undersireable poverty stricken "Reservations"...At least they got something after having their land stolen from them....But yet they still live in poverty.

Where does this leave America :

2. African Americans >> White America Made so much MONEY (which is still being passed down from generation to generation) off of the slave trade and the land that was built on this trade...Just think about it...REAL ESTATE is on average the largest builder of Wealth.

The Winner: (Also after taking the land from Mexican Americans)>> White America and it's future generations that still live off of this money.

However, we say that African Americans should stop blaming White America, but White America never gave "Black Men" anything.. Specifically,

After World War 2, the white males that were in the war were given various government loans, grants and preferred housing in the Suburbs ("The American Dream)...Single Women (Black and White) were given Section 8 housing (No checking/savings Account and no male can reside in the household)...Indians (casted off and given reservations and casino opportunities)..

Yet, Blacks (i.e. also those of Ethiopian decent) and various minorites were openly denied loans well into the late 70's and White America wonders why they are on top.

Please now your "American History" and how this Economy was built...If you really want to know the truth ask the White Americans who were born prior to 1930...

[Trae]

This song is a good summing up of the single-family homes AND rap music (just for you Bryan, just for you). Whoever made the video is retarded. They put The Sims on it, but it's the only one I can find. Just don't look at it.

Andre 3000 (from OutKast) - "She's Alive"

[Fringe]

When I say it's time to get over it I'm not saying to forget the gross mistreatment of blacks, native americans, jews, etc by white people. I can certainly understand the hatred towards whites. If I was black then I would hate white people. (Believe me there’s no group I hate more then white redneck supremacist). What I can't grasp is the treatment from their own. Coming from a family generation that graduated from a predominately black high school I witnessed the hatred and mistreatment of blacks that wanted to get an education and amount to something. They weren’t picked on by whites but by other blacks. Why do so many blacks believe getting an education and getting ahead in life is a bad thing? This is what I can't understand. This is what blacks need to “get over”.

[musicman]

Skin color is visual, and visceral, and any cultural anthropologist will tell you--is a basis for bigotry in most all societies (of course it may not take the same form or pattern).

I agree that a large portion is visual but you have to consider who is doing the viewing as well. in the latin community there definitely is bigotry towards other races and within the latin community itself. in the black community, i've seen one talk down to someone who is darker complected.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Ok, but let's stay in "America"...Europe and other non American experiences are not 100% relevant to what's happened in America...It seems that other places have gotten past their issues but America can't bc of the amount of Denial and that the fact that America and it's Economy was built on the back of America's Minorities, but yet White America asks it's minorities why they are at the bottom in regards to Economic Status..Just think about it starting with:

1. Native Americans >> White America took their land and casted them off to undersireable poverty stricken "Reservations"...At least they got something after having their land stolen from them....But yet they still live in poverty.

Where does this leave America :

2. African Americans >> White America Made so much MONEY (which is still being passed down from generation to generation) off of the slave trade and the land that was built on this trade...Just think about it...REAL ESTATE is on average the largest builder of Wealth.

The Winner: (Also after taking the land from Mexican Americans)>> White America and it's future generations that still live off of this money.

However, we say that African Americans should stop blaming White America, but White America never gave "Black Men" anything.. Specifically,

After World War 2, the white males that were in the war were given various government loans, grants and preferred housing in the Suburbs ("The American Dream)...Single Women (Black and White) were given Section 8 housing (No checking/savings Account and no male can reside in the household)...Indians (casted off and given reservations and casino opportunities)..

Yet, Blacks (i.e. also those of Ethiopian decent) and various minorites were openly denied loans well into the late 70's and White America wonders why they are on top.

Please now your "American History" and how this Economy was built...If you really want to know the truth ask the White Americans who were born prior to 1930...

Guess they are still waiting on their 40 acres and a mule.

[houstonmacbro]

I agree that a large portion is visual but you have to consider who is doing the viewing as well. in the latin community there definitely is bigotry towards other races and within the latin community itself. in the black community, i've seen one talk down to someone who is darker complected.

The 'Latin' community is not one monolithic culture either. In fact, Hispanics can be of any 'race' (white, black, even Jewish --not sure that is a race).

But I would say even their hatred (or dislike?) of darker skin may come form colonial periods too when Spaniards conquered various groups piting one against the other.

Same thing in black communities. You do know about house slaves versus field slaves. One set was generally lighter skinned and worked in easier jobs and the others, often darker, worked the fields.

I believe that some of those issues are passed down as to how SOME (certainly not a majority) of blacks feel about one another.

An example ... my grandmother (a light skinned woman) and my grandfather (a very dark skinned man) were held in contempt by my grandmother's parents. They felt he was TOO BLACK.

Go figure.

I always heard the darker the berry the sweeter the juice.

Guess they are still waiting on their 40 acres and a mule.

Keep the mule, but I'll take that 40 acres!

[crunchtastic]

I agree that a large portion is visual but you have to consider who is doing the viewing as well. in the latin community there definitely is bigotry towards other races and within the latin community itself. in the black community, i've seen one talk down to someone who is darker complected.

yea, actually that's just what I meant. Skin color discrimination is a big deal because it exists in all groups. The darkest person is often the one getting the most negative reaction. Except not always. I'm not just white, but pale, and am always told that I need 'more color.' I don't understand.

So much for my halfassed theory. I'm having philosophical overload. Need drinks.

[Trae]

When I say it's time to get over it I'm not saying to forget the gross mistreatment of blacks, native americans, jews, etc by white people. I can certainly understand the hatred towards whites. If I was black then I would hate white people. (Believe me there

[moni]

I watched the CNN Special and one thing that bothered me, was that when the black man who had fathered 2 children by two different women, was asked if he planned to be a "father" and he said he did. The baby's mother was already pregnant with twins by another man that she was not married to. I mean, these women get pregnant by black guys who they know have no intention of marrying them, why? I wanted to ask that woman, "what the hell are you doing?". I just don't get it, no job, no husband, no offers, but pregnant. Doesn't make any sense to me. The point of this segment was to make black men look very irresponsible but I think it is the women who are irresponsible. Who would get pregnant by a man who you already know doesn't want to marry you. It is the women who bring these kids into the world.

[Deut28Thirteen]

I watched the CNN Special and one thing that bothered me, was that when the black man who had fathered 2 children by two different women, was asked if he planned to be a "father" and he said he did. The baby's mother was already pregnant with twins by another man that she was not married to. I mean, these women get pregnant by black guys who they know have no intention of marrying them, why? I wanted to ask that woman, "what the hell are you doing?". I just don't get it, no job, no husband, no offers, but pregnant. Doesn't make any sense to me.

I do get it either! Now thats just plan stupid. She know they wont be getting any child support. So why put your self through it. I ask that to my self all the time mostly when I am watching The Maury Show.

[musicman]

The 'Latin' community is not one monolithic culture either. In fact, Hispanics can be of any 'race' (white, black, even Jewish --not sure that is a race).

yep

But I would say even their hatred (or dislike?) of darker skin may come form colonial periods too when Spaniards conquered various groups piting one against the other.

darker is just one example. some vietnamese treat other vietnamese badly if they marry a white. etc.

[Mark F. Barnes]

I watched the CNN Special and one thing that bothered me, was that when the black man who had fathered 2 children by two different women, was asked if he planned to be a "father" and he said he did. The baby's mother was already pregnant with twins by another man that she was not married to. I mean, these women get pregnant by black guys who they know have no intention of marrying them, why? I wanted to ask that woman, "what the hell are you doing?". I just don't get it, no job, no husband, no offers, but pregnant. Doesn't make any sense to me. The point of this segment was to make black men look very irresponsible but I think it is the women who are irresponsible. Who would get pregnant by a man who you already know doesn't want to marry you. It is the women who bring these kids into the world.

More Babies = Bigger Check, it's plain and simple, it's a never ending game that's been going on for years. They won't cut them off, or limit the amount of help (like we'll pay for the first two mistakes but that's it), and the more they have, the bigger the check. Anybody says it's not that way is flat out lying or has no clue. I sat in on a board of inquiry for several months Auditing WIC and the Welfare system for my local region. I was volunteered by my dear friend Steve Ogden (and I still owe him for that one), however it gave me a good look at a system that I had never had dealings with in the past. It more than pissed me off. It has nothing to do with race, there are white girls and Hispanics pulling the same crap. They are playing the system, getting housing, a Lone Star Card (food stamps) and help from WIC. It a pathetically abused system that costs the taxpayer billions. Until the system is completely dismantled and rebuilt, it will go on forever. Generations growing up on Welfare. Just like the deadbeats that are still riding out the FEMA thing, we will support them forever, until somebody says enough is enough. Going on three years and they can't get it together, tough nookies, find an overpass, there are plenty around. I know people who lost everything in the Oil bust of 1986, I mean everything. One was my own brother, he had to move his family in with me for a while and then out to the cabin on our dear lease. He had no money, no home, credit shot to hell, everything repossessed by the banks, and it took him a few years, sold all his guns to survive, bought a $500 POS pickup to drive, and did landscaping and built decks to get by until the oil field came back. He had to start back roughnecking for $8/hr when the rigs popped back up, and today he lives in Bentwater waterfront home on Lake Conroe. Pure sweat and hustle got him back on top. Never drew a check from the government or a day of unemployment. So I am not going to by it's tough out there. My brother has no college degree, he's a contract directional driller making good money now. Oh he's going to be in a bind if they pull the plug in the oil patch again, because he won't quit buying crap on credit, but he's always been that way, he's my little brother and I love him, but he's 55 years old and he's got to take care of himself. Tough Love is sometimes the best Love.

[Trae]

If it helps, I use to go off WIC when I was little, and when Hurricane Katrina and Rita hit and we housed some relatives from New Orleans, we got a lot of free food from their WICs. A good example of someone trying to get out of food stamps is my cousin in Lake Charles. She has two kids (five and two), but only has a high school diploma. She works her ass off, but can never afford to get off the WIC plans. The guy she had the two kids with is in jail for stabbing someone 20 times in Louisiana, so it's not like he can help.

I still haven't watched the entire Black in America, but I will have to. See how many sides of the story CNN did.