Subdude Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Urban advice for Midtown developersGet on a plane, visit other cities' parks, take notesBy JOHN WHITESIDEAs a new resident of Midtown (and of Houston) I read last Tuesday's Chronicle news article, "Ideas filling vacant block / Some see park, others see urban oasis in Midtown," with great interest. I love Houston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 pretty good article, hopefully some of them actually take it to heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 Great Article. This resident knows his neighborhood and understands the potential of Midtown quality of life. The superblock is the key to Midtown and I'm glad to see it getting some press. I wish the Ttweak guys would get a new mini-campaign going. Super-Block, It's worth it!Dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston Retail Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 What a great read!I love the authenticity of it. If the Superblock is made a park, and there is not the right timing of development, it can turn south like Root Memorial park. Both this piece along with Crossley's made me rethink my stance on the block. I was leaning towards the prospect of dense residneital, but now really think it will be best suited as a park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston Retail Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 can someone find Crossley's piece and post it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 7, 2004 Author Share Posted September 7, 2004 Here you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceCity Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 That article does have some good advice. I hope its followed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted September 7, 2004 Share Posted September 7, 2004 I don't have much hope for Midtown. I think its destined to go the way of $30K/year millionaire apartments and rental properties. You can blame Houston, though. Zoning and free enterprise is great, but eventually the city is going to need to have a vision and establish a true pattern and blue print for growth. We leave far too many decisions to the guy who has the money, without considering the long term impact.And where is Mayor White? Is that dude on vacation? I hear less from him, than I did from Brown, and that's not saying a lot.Make me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 Midtown has such great potential, but there's really no redevelopment vision beyond tax breaks. As long as the main force in the area is large apartment developers like Camden, the future doesn't look bright. Housing is dominated by rental units, there's no public space, the streets are too wide, and there's nothing to stop the CVS-style development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Well, since the streets are too wide, they can cannibalize some of that for some wider sidewalks. Oh, and SOME Camden projects are ok, as long as it isn all Camden and crap. Some ZOM stuff would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 My point wasn't the specific developer as much as the over-emphasis on rental units. The classic Houston example is the area south of the Galleria. In the 1960s thousands of apartment units were built there, and from what I have read it was considered the trendy place for singles to live. Most of the apartments weren't kept up, and eventually it became a giant slum. On the positive side, there has been a lot of townhouse development in Midtown that should give some stability. It will be that proverbial cold day in hell before they narrow streets there, which will limit development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 The wide streets are a blessing (Fannin, San Jacinto, Milam, etc.) Makes getting into and out of downtown a breeze. Remember life before that? It was a rough ride. Main and its side streets provide plenty of room for sidewalk life. Midtown can still turn into something to be proud of but we really need the city involved, not more "development associations" working with developers. Time is running out. We don't need another guy like this as the don of Midtown. Colonial House Apartments for swingers! Yeah, baby! Y'all remember this guy? Free video rentals! A hot, bikini-clad young woman stepping out of a pool while clutching a VCR in her arms. Pollack left Houston sometime in the mid 1980s. Destination: unknown. Houston is a boom town once again, except for one area. "Beautiful southwest Houston" has become what some call the "Gulfton Ghetto." The webmaster refuses to drive to the area to find out what's happened to Colonial House. And I wonder: What happened to the girl in the bikini? My Webpage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 OH MY GAWD. I had totally forgotten about those old Colonial House TV ads! Thanks for bringing back an old memory from my childhood.It's really scary that he still has the same haircut after all these years. Judging from the photos of his office building on his website, his taste in design still seems to be pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 8, 2004 Author Share Posted September 8, 2004 Who on earth is that? The wide streets are indeed good for circulating traffic. They impede residential development, though, since not many families with children would want to live along a street like Fannin. You don't want kids playing by that much traffic. It's not just about creating sidewalk life along Main. The idea is creating a neighborhood that is supportive of residential life overall, and major through steets might hurt that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Read the link about him. He's the main reason we have Gulfton Ghetto, and why I think apartments will not be good for Midtown in the longrun. Apartments have their place, but long term up-keep can be a challenge.As far as Midtown being a real neighborhood, that will have to happen (and is happening) along Jackson, La Branch, Austin, Truxillo, etc, but on the East side of Main. It's too late for the "good side" of the tracks, West of Main IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtownguy Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Well, apartments are ranked in different "tiers." All of the apartments in Midtown are in the "luxury" or upscale teir, and are all owned by major corporations, which specalize in luxury apartments. While one can never say never, I seriously doubt if any of the apartments would ever get to the point like the Gulfton Ghetto. If anything, I think the East side of Main is what's going to remain rundown and sleazy. The West side of the tracks is what gives midtown it's hip, trendy reputation. The best way to build midtown is to continue to build the West side of main as densely as possible, to the point where there's no space left, and then eventually ease development to the East side. Thats' bound to happen. I agree that more owners would be better, but the renters so far are the ones providing the critical mass needed to make midtown thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincoRanch-HoustonResident Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 What good advice for Midtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 9, 2004 Author Share Posted September 9, 2004 Of course, the problem is that today's luxury is tomorrow's slum, and developers design around that realization. Certainly the Post and AMLI apartment complexes aren't exactly renowned for their high quality. Rental-dominated neighborhoods are inherently less stable than owner-dominated areas, so people shy away from buying, which makes the problem still worse. All the renters may be making the west side thrive now, but they will move on as the buildings age. I could see another "Gulfton Ghetto" as a real possibility. It wouldn't be the first time. Making it overly dense with apartment buildings might make things worse, not better. A cheap and easy way to limit through traffic would be to dedicate the far left and right lanes of all the streets to on-street parking. That would reduce and slow down traffic and create a bit of a barrier to sidewalks where we would like to see more activity. A side benefit is that it would lessen the need for parking garages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dream Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 The wide streets are a blessing (Fannin, San Jacinto, Milam, etc.) Makes getting into and out of downtown a breeze. Remember life before that? It was a rough ride.Main and its side streets provide plenty of room for sidewalk life. Midtown can still turn into something to be proud of but we really need the city involved, not more "development associations" working with developers. Time is running out. We don't need another guy like this as the don of Midtown. Colonial House Apartments for swingers! Yeah, baby! Y'all remember this guy? Free video rentals! A hot, bikini-clad young woman stepping out of a pool while clutching a VCR in her arms. Pollack left Houston sometime in the mid 1980s. Destination: unknown. Houston is a boom town once again, except for one area. "Beautiful southwest Houston" has become what some call the "Gulfton Ghetto." The webmaster refuses to drive to the area to find out what's happened to Colonial House. And I wonder: What happened to the girl in the bikini? My Webpage <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That Pollack website is a classic. God, I love the internet. I'm going to send this to all the guys I grew up with. Thanks for the laugh. Dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtownguy Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Actually, Post and Amli are considered two of the most upscale and luxurious apartment companies in the country. AMLI is traded on the NYSE. You think they're going to let their bldgs crumble?The problem, however, is this: they're putting exhorbant prices on the condos and townhomes. I, and many of my friends, live over here, and would love to buy something in Midtown, but can't afford to. Midtown needs a decent stable of condos priced at $200,000 and under. That would build critical mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtown_resident Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 AMLI is traded on the NYSE. You think they're going to let their bldgs crumble?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Enron was traded on the NYSE....did they let their empire crumble? Being traded on the NYSE or being an upscale company doesn't matter. I'm not proposing the idea that AMLI and Post are the bad guys...but calling them the good guys for the above reasons is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Midtownguy...being listed the NYSE doesn't make you "legit", and we've seen buildings in the past crumble because of their companies going "bye bye".You've also seen some apartment complexes around town that WERE very nice, turn to absolute crap for one reason or another. It's just a progression of how things go. I hope midtown won't suffer the fate, but the prices ARE getting a bit out of hand, I would think. Pretty soon, you'd have to be a millionaire to live within the loop. Ricco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Another good example of a sketchy apratment complex is The Fountain's on Fountainview.They were pretty nice at one time.Still a good location, just don't get mugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted September 9, 2004 Author Share Posted September 9, 2004 Actually, Post and Amli are considered two of the most upscale and luxurious apartment companies in the country. AMLI is traded on the NYSE. You think they're going to let their bldgs crumble?It's not that they necessarily let the buildings crumble. Their strategy is to build, collect cash flows sufficient to make a decent return, and sell off older or non-performing assets from their portfolio. Other investors operate by buying and running complexes in the secondary market, where the buildings are older, locations are poorer, rents are less, and maintenance is less frequent. Midtown is getting some lower-priced condos, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 The Perry's at Elgin and Chenvert start at 170K. They are all hardi plank though.Don't forget the last apartment owner option. Section 8! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midtownguy Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Ricco,Great point. Perhaps the NYSE example wasn't a great one to make. My only point was that, hopefully, things in midown will balance out, so some of us normal people can continue to live there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Actually, Post and Amli are considered two of the most upscale and luxurious apartment companies in the country. AMLI is traded on the NYSE. You think they're going to let their bldgs crumble?Truth be told, AMLI didn't even build the AMLI Midtown development. They bought it from the original developer around late 2000/early 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Read the link about him. He's the main reason we have Gulfton Ghetto, and why I think apartments will not be good for Midtown in the longrun. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Pollack is the main reason for the Gulfton Ghetto. Colonial House is one of many complexes in that neighborhood that were built over a decade before Pollack ever arrived in Houston.Fortunately none of the newer complexes in town are on the enormous scale that the Gulfton Ghetto apartment complexes are. Most of those complexes have 800-1,200 units, whereas most of the newer inner loop properties built since around 1998 are under 500 units. Still, rentals are less stable as longtime renters with decent incomes who don't eventually buy something tend to keep moving to newer properties every few years. It would be nice to see some of those apartments convert to condos in a few years, such as the Renaissance at River Oaks property on South Shepherd, that was original developed as rentals by Gables and then converted to condos in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbaNerd Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Is this guy for real? WTH?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssullivan Posted September 10, 2004 Share Posted September 10, 2004 Is this guy for real? WTH?! Yes, he really was for real. Too bad nobody has a clip from the ad of the bikini clad woman coming out of the pool with the VCR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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