Potential Foundation Problem

[KatyHomeOwner]

I have a home that is less than a year old. There was noticible cracks in the garage when I closed on the house but they have gotten worse. In the garage I have a horizontal crack that runs along the entire span of the garage where the garage meets the rest of the house and there is a crack on the outside of the foundation at the same location. So the garage seems to be now a "detached" garage. I have a large horizontal crack that runs in the middle of the garage as well. There is also another crack that runs vertically and runs into the crack in the middle of the garage and spiderwebs out. I put a level over where these crack intersect and there is a depression.

I also found what looked to be 2 nail ends at the surface in my garage. One that was on the middle crack and a few feet vertical from it was another. After chipping away some of the concrete I found they were tie wire for the post tension cables.

After this I decided to pull up the carpet in 3 spots, living room, dining room, master bedroom as in each of these rooms I was able to move furniture very easily. Each place I pulled up carpet there were vertical cracks. In the living room I found a tie wire and was able to expose the tension cable which was less than 1/2" below the concrete. The dining room I found the same crack and tie wire and tension cable. Again the cable was less than 1/2" below the surface. Also to note that the living room and dining room are at two seperate ends of the house and I am sure it is the same cable. I took a 3lb bar magnet and I am able to follow the cable along the surface which tells me the entire cable is most likely near the surface as well. In the master bedroom I found a large crack going vertical and found an area that had a large surface chipped and missing. I chipped away at that area and found the cable again less than 1/2". Took a magnet and able to follow it above the surface. I also have a bottom portion of my back corner of the houses foundation missing.

I have an uncle who is an architect in California. From the photos I sent he thinks theres two issues. One is that they didnt put enough sand on top of the clay which is what they do to prevent movement. Second that the slab wasn't poured thick enough which is why the tension cables and tie wire are so close to the surface.

I had some high level management guys from the builder come by to look at the home and said that sand is not required to be laid on the clay and that these cables are normal to be that close to the surface as well as all the cracks and depression are all normal. Are these problems not really problems or do I have a real reason to be concerned? What should I do?

[TheNiche]

Your house is experiencing abnormal settling, probably for exactly the reasons your uncle suggested. I suggest that you visit other construction sites and see how they're doing their sitework and also that you check around with your neighbors, both that bought from the same builder and from different builders, and compare slabs. If the ones that bought from your builder have problems while all the rest in your neighborhood do not, then you may have a class action lawsuit on your hands and will need to consult a good real estate attorney.

If it is only your home, then figure out from your comparisons whether they overtly lied to you, and then you will need to consult a good real estate attorney.

[TJones]

Did you bring up the issue of the cracks in the garage during your final inspection. Surely you have a warranty on the property and have soem recourse with the builder ?

[KatyHomeOwner]

If the ones that bought from your builder have problems while all the rest in your neighborhood do not, then you may have a class action lawsuit on your hands and will need to consult a good real estate attorney.

I have a neighbor that is in a 2 story house. He has similar cracks in his foundation and also his brick is cracked straght up both sides of his house from foundation to top. His brick is concrete brick and mine is acme and I do not show any cracks. I do have a brick that has disloged from the mortor around it at an expansion spot.

[KatyHomeOwner]

Did you bring up the issue of the cracks in the garage during your final inspection. Surely you have a warranty on the property and have some recourse with the builder ?

Yes I did. I had an inspector come before I closed and in his report that I still have states the cracks and suggests a structural engineer to come up. The community superintendent was given a copy and he told me that it isn't an issue and I went along with it.

The inspector report also stated that the door to my attic access that is in my garage that it isn't fire rated or the plumbing manifold box cover in the garage isn't fire rated either. Those people from the builder says they are not required to have it fire rated.

I live in Katy and in Harris County.

[TJones]

Yes I did. I had an inspector come before I closed and in his report that I still have states the cracks and suggests a structural engineer to come up. The community superintendent was given a copy and he told me that it isn't an issue and I went along with it.

The inspector report also stated that the door to my attic access that is in my garage that it isn't fire rated or the plumbing manifold box cover in the garage isn't fire rated either. Those people from the builder says they are not required to have it fire rated.

I live in Katy and in Harris County.

A community superintendent. What is his/her function ? As far as "fire rated", the city and /or county inspector would have tagged it if it were a violation of code, apparently it is not, I am sure your inspector was just "letting you know", not that they are "supposed to be." Did the inspector say at anytime that you shouldn't move into the house ?

[BryanS]

All this talk about "cracks" ... How "big" are they? 1/4"? 1/16" 1/32" 1/64" Hairline? If you have a post-tension slab, you are going to have normal cracking, restriant-to-shrinkage (RTS), most likely.

http://www.houston-slab-foundations.info/s...t%20differences (Excellent web site - probably the best on the web regarding slab foundations)

Post-tensioned slabs are more likely to develop cracks due to restraint-to-shrinkage. Since the cables cannot be tensioned for at least 7-days after the concrete is placed, visible RTS cracks are almost inevitable in a post-tensioned slab. These cracks will tighten when the cables are tensioned. However, certain conditions, including debris lodging in the crack, may prevent an RTS crack from fully closing. These cracks are not significant structurally to the performance of the foundation whether they close or remain open.

I have a crack in my back patio. It's about 3/4". I get my finger in there. That is a crack. I also have a crack, in other parts of the slab of my house, but they are hairline cracks, completely normal.

In the homes I own, both are post-tension. I would say the post-tension cables are about 3 to 4" below the brick line, on the outside of the house.

Also the "corners" of your slab that are missing under the brick work, also normal. These are called corner or wedge cracks...

http://www.houston-slab-foundations.info/f...#corner%20crack

The large majority of slab-on-ground foundations will develop what are called corner cracks or wedge cracks. The name comes from the fact that these cracks develop at or very close to the outside corners of the foundation and frequently form a wedge at the corner.

These cracks develop as a result of the expansion of the brick veneer when it is warmed by the sun. When the temperature of the brick veneer rises, the brick veneer wall expands in length and pushes or slides against the slab surface. At the end of a brick veneer wall at an outside corner of the slab, there is nothing to push back and the concrete cracks at each side of the corner forming a wedge. Builders will usually place a piece of plastic between the bottom of the first course of brick and the slab; this reduces the friction force when the brick expands and slides against the slab. This has the practical effect of reducing the cracking on the slab at the corners but it by no means eliminates the corner cracking.

...Warming by the sun may be one cause, but also, when they go to knock the forms off the slab, it is very easy to crack the corners. Again, this should be normal.

What may not be normal are the post-tension cables so close to the surface. If you say they are a 1/2"... and your house is brick... There is usually a 1" brick ledge that runs the perimeter. This means that the post-tension cables would be terminating in your brick facade. I have never seen that. Go outside and look to see where the cables are terminating in the slab. It should be 3 or 4" below the brick line.

Again, exactly how big are these cracks? Can you slide a credit card in the crack?

[BryanS]

Yes I did. I had an inspector come before I closed and in his report that I still have states the cracks and suggests a structural engineer to come up. The community superintendent was given a copy and he told me that it isn't an issue and I went along with it.

The inspector report also stated that the door to my attic access that is in my garage that it isn't fire rated or the plumbing manifold box cover in the garage isn't fire rated either. Those people from the builder says they are not required to have it fire rated.

I live in Katy and in Harris County.

Regular home inspectors are amateurs when it comes to foundations. They are generalists. Usually, they will write up in their report that you consult a structural engineer. This is purely CYA. Looks like your inspector did his duty.

They guys who put together this web site:

http://www.houston-slab-foundations.info/

Do such in-depth slab/foundation inspections. I think another person on HAIF actually used them once...

R. Michael Gray, P.E. and Matthew T. Gray.

Father and son? Anyway... FWIW I don't know these people at all... but they seem to know what they are talking about.

[KatyHomeOwner]

Should the cracks follow the tension cables? I will upload photos soon.

[TexasVines]

the fact that there is exposed tie wires means the foundation is not one I would want to have anything to do with period the end

I have never seen any decent foundation (even one with cracks) that had exposed tie wires......the ends of the ties should point DOWN for one thing so there is no chance they will be exposed through the surface of the slab and I have never seen properly tied foundations that had anything but an inch of tail on the end of the tie wire which means even if some knucklehead did leave the end pointing up it should still be one inch below the surface of the slab because a decent slab for any home will be a minimum 4" thick and the rebar or tension cable should be even right in the center of that 4" and should be on plastic holders 2" tall

I realize a post tension can be thinner and that is part of the "appeal", but that is also part of the problem....minimum engineering......under 4" thick for post tension in Houston and I would not be interested

we all know a 4" rebar slab can crack in Houston and post tension can help alleviate that....but why would anyone with a brain that was trying to build quality use the post tension design as an excuse to go thinner.....especially when 4" and rebar was "engineered" at one time as well....and fail daily....nothing like re-engineering something to the minimum and then watching it fail as well because...it was engineered for the minimum

the fact that there are exposed ties makce me believe there is a quality issue and I would be wondering what else was not done properly or inspected before the pour.....because the upwards pointing ties should have been caught and corrected if inspected by even a 5yo

[BryanS]

Should the cracks follow the tension cables? I will upload photos soon.

That would be helpful. Also, photos of the exterior of the slab would be helpful too. If you have post-tension cables terminating in your brick work... It will be obvious.

Cracks can appear anywhere in a slab, run any direction.

[TexasVines]

Should the cracks follow the tension cables? I will upload photos soon.

there should be tension cables going in both directions.....if there were cracks following where the cables run that would again make me question the thickness of the slab and the proper placement of the cables....especially if they run deep into the interior of the house

[BryanS]

By the looks of it... this appears to be a 4" cap. Looks like the cables are 2" down, under the surface. Slabs usually have 4 or 6" caps...

Here is how they are terminated:

Look at the diameter. Your cables cannot be 1/2" from the surface... without seeing this kind of termination anchor in the brick.

[KatyHomeOwner]

Here are some photos. Again the builder says these are all normal.

Here is the crack that runs along the back of the garage

Here is the same crack but on the outside of the house.

Wire tie in the garage.

Different cracks intersecting in garage.

Intersecting cracks with a depression, maybe hard to notice.

Photo of my living room. Wire was at surface when I found it and the cable is less than 1/2" from the surface. This is what my other two rooms have as well.

[BryanS]

The cracks look "normal" to me...

The foundation does appear to be a little shallow...

Go outside and see how far down the post-tension anchors are...

EDIT: I take back my shallow foundation comment. I am looking at the photo I posted... Notice how the anchors around the perimeter are lower than the cable runs... Even in that slab, it looks like the cables will be close to the surface in many areas. I always thought you would want post-tension cables running exactly across a flat, level plane in your slab, but maybe that is not how post-tension slabs are made.

[KatyHomeOwner]

I also want to note that I can take a small bar magnet and able to follow the rebar in all rooms up and down the area of floor I have exposed.

[TexasVines]

I would say those cracks are very small

the fact that the tie is STICKING UP FROM THE SURFACE is just extremely poor......how did they even properly float the surface with that crap sticking up....the one in the garage is just plain poor quality as well and could be a bigger issue if it starts to rust further.....tie wire is extremely cheap metal and I would cover that SOON

the cable 1/2" under the surface is a HUGE issue....but the cracks appear to not be an issue to me

[KatyHomeOwner]

The thing that gets me, I pulled up 3 areas by chance, all areas have a long crack which I found in all cases tie wire and the rebar right below it that follows the crack. I got 2 other rooms that pulling up the carpet would be too much work plus I have a lot of tile area which makes me wonder what is under that as well. Is there a way to remedy this?

[TexasVines]

the cracks look harmless to me

in the garage I would fill that area in with some durable HARD epoxy and make sure there are no exposed parts of the ties at all so there is no rust starting....possibly paint the ties before the epoxy is put down to be double safe

the one in the living room I think the only solution is to trim it down below the slab surface and again fill it in with some type of epoxy

other than that there is ZERO that I know of that can be done other than to document it and make sure the builder acknowledges it NOW so if there are issues in the future thay can not try and welch on fixing OBVIOUS POOR QUALITY

I can not believe ANY inspector sent by the builder would not have been totally embarassed to see what their company delivered as a finished product

the cracks look to NOT be an issue to me.....but I would think just as you do about what else was not done properly.....because what I see is just plain BAD as far as quality control and inspection when it comes to those exposed ties and the depth of the cables

[BryanS]

You have good slab exposure at the perimeter (your exterior shot).

The cracks appear to be harmless, and normal. Nothing needs to be "fixed" in that regard, IMO.

Your slab appears to be level (but I can just barley make that out in your picture, reading the level).

As far as the post-tension cables being close to the surface... As I am learning in the photo, and this youtube video:

Post-tension cables appear to run through your slab in semi-flat "arch" shape vs. flat, level plane. This shape provides "lift and strength" in the slab. Strength in that the slab is in compression and lift at the perimeter beams. That is what you want.

In this video, it is stated that the post-tension cables must be elevated a minimum of 2" from grade. It doesn't say how deep they have to be below the surface of your floor... You could have a shallow(er) than usual cap or a normal cap depth; just your cables are "arching" higher in your slab. Your house is probably no different than your neighbors, or many others in Houston. That's just the way many are made. And Houston market does take into account all kinds of foundation problems. Of all foundation problems people have, many would be envious of you to have such a minor problem (vs. cracked slabs, sinking slabs, failed foundations, etc.)

There is nothing you can really do. Your house will not fall down. And if you really want a professional opinion, hire a foundation structural engineer. They run, I am told $250 to $800, depending on the size of your house.

EDIT: This video must have been shot in the SW part of the US or in very dry soil conditions. There appears to be no plastic on the ground! Thought you always needed a vapor barrier...

[TexasVines]

There appears to be no plastic on the ground! Thought you always needed a vapor barrier...

only if you want your tile to stay down and your carpet to not mold

[KatyHomeOwner]

The builder said that they don't have anyone inspect before or during the pouring of the foundation and they said no builder has an inspector for it. One of the neighbors told me that it was poured at 3am and woke up most the people around and they were all outside watching and another neighbor told me it looked like soup coming out of the truck.

Another thing is that I bought this as an inventory home so I was never there for any phases of the build. I had mold in my second bath cabinet that they tried to cover up after I noticed it the first week I moved in and it came back 6 months after i closed and they finally replaced the cabinet. I've had numerous issues with my A/C which I am still not satisfied with because my house stays humid and i need to set the A/C to 70 to feel cool. In all my rooms my ceilings are bulging which they say are normal. I even had 2 light bulbs in the attic where the glass detached from the metal screw base like the glue or whatever holds it together melted, I questioned the attic ventilation as its really hot up there and I even have TechShield and I can see felt over parts of my ridge vents, again their response was its all normal. I don't mean to get off topic but this house has been a nightmare and I have lived in a newly constructed home for the past 15 years, moved every 5 years, and this is house number 4 and I have never seen those houses with issues as this one and none of this looks normal to me. This house cosmetically inside with all the dry wall issues and the garage floor makes this house look 10yrs old IMO and this house is not even 12months. These issues were not apparent but started to show around March when the weather warmed up and I've been living there since December '07.

I had the level down so you could see where the concrete dipped down below it which is where two cracks intersect. Also I found only one of those "terminated" ends on the side of my foundation which is on the left side if you face the front of the house. Other than that one my foundation sides are all smooth.

My uncle suggested to have the concrete bored to see the thickness of the slab and take a soil sample under the slab. He doesn't know what is required in TX or if its any different in any state, he says there should be a minimum of 4" slab and a layer or mix of sand beneath it since the ground here is clay and highly expansive. Anyone know what the foundation requirements are?

[KatyHomeOwner]

Also the "corners" of your slab that are missing under the brick work, also normal. These are called corner or wedge cracks...

http://www.houston-slab-foundations.info/f...#corner%20crack

The wedge is not at the base of the brick however reversed that with the wedge at the soil. From that video shouldnt this be going down several feet below the surface of the ground? I took this photo recently at night so may not be very noticable.

[musicman]

I've had numerous issues with my A/C which I am still not satisfied with because my house stays humid and i need to set the A/C to 70 to feel cool.

water may be accumulating in your main drain pan upstairs. check out the level of the evaporator coil (and integrated drain pan) and make sure it is angled slightly towards the drain. also make sure the main drainline is lower than the drain pan.

[BryanS]

The wedge is not at the base of the brick however reversed that with the wedge at the soil. From that video shouldnt this be going down several feet below the surface of the ground? I took this photo recently at night so may not be very noticable.

Doesn't look like a problem, to me. Or very minor. Probably happened when the forms were knocked off.

[BryanS]

The builder said that they don't have anyone inspect before or during the pouring of the foundation and they said no builder has an inspector for it. One of the neighbors told me that it was poured at 3am and woke up most the people around and they were all outside watching and another neighbor told me it looked like soup coming out of the truck.

That's what concrete looks like when it comes out of a truck. I am not sure how well someone can visually inspect the quality of a concrete mix, at 3:00 a.m., in near-dark conditions by people who probably know nothing about concrete.

Another thing is that I bought this as an inventory home so I was never there for any phases of the build. I had mold in my second bath cabinet that they tried to cover up after I noticed it the first week I moved in and it came back 6 months after i closed and they finally replaced the cabinet. I've had numerous issues with my A/C which I am still not satisfied with because my house stays humid and i need to set the A/C to 70 to feel cool.

In my home inspection reports, it indicates that the differential between the return air and any register should be between 16 to 18 degrees. You can buy a heat sensor at Lowes or Home Depot, like what the inspectors use, for cheap. You can check yourself. Before you call anyone, or try to fix anything, check this differential temperature. If you are getting the proper temp differential, no one is going to help you fix an A/C problem that isn't there.

In all my rooms my ceilings are bulging which they say are normal. I even had 2 light bulbs in the attic where the glass detached from the metal screw base like the glue or whatever holds it together melted, I questioned the attic ventilation as its really hot up there and I even have TechShield and I can see felt over parts of my ridge vents, again their response was its all normal.

It is going to be hot in the attic, no matter if you have TechShield, ridge vents. It gets hot up there. When you say you see felt over parts of your ridge vents, again what is the magnitude of this problem? Is the entire ridge vent blocked/covered by felt? Or is it just in a few places? If it's in a few places, I would say no issue.

I don't mean to get off topic but this house has been a nightmare and I have lived in a newly constructed home for the past 15 years, moved every 5 years, and this is house number 4 and I have never seen those houses with issues as this one and none of this looks normal to me. This house cosmetically inside with all the dry wall issues and the garage floor makes this house look 10yrs old IMO and this house is not even 12months. These issues were not apparent but started to show around March when the weather warmed up and I've been living there since December '07.

A brand new house is going to go through some changes once it is built. There will be some settling. There may be some bowing of sheetrock in places. You're right though. It may be only a couple of years old, but looks like it is 10. But in 10 years it will look that way. In 20 years, it will look that way. In 30, same thing.

If you have bowed sheetrock on the ceilings... That needs to be 5/8" and not 1/2", which is used on walls, typically. You may want to check that.

I had the level down so you could see where the concrete dipped down below it which is where two cracks intersect. Also I found only one of those "terminated" ends on the side of my foundation which is on the left side if you face the front of the house. Other than that one my foundation sides are all smooth.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the "dip" in your slab in that spot. You're going to find little dips and valleys all over the place. And I stress "little" as in, if you were to walk across those spots, you wouldn't really even notice.

The anchors typically have concrete patched over them. On brand new construction, it may be difficult to see them all. For the one that you can see... How far down is it, below the brick line? I am guessing 3" or so.

My uncle suggested to have the concrete bored to see the thickness of the slab and take a soil sample under the slab. He doesn't know what is required in TX or if its any different in any state, he says there should be a minimum of 4" slab and a layer or mix of sand beneath it since the ground here is clay and highly expansive. Anyone know what the foundation requirements are?

I'm not exactly sure what this test is going to buy you, really. So you bore down and take a soil sample. Wow. Your house is built just like all the others in the neighborhood. Sand should be used as fill, however, many builders probably don't even bother. The fill, however, provides support in the interior of your home's slab. The perimeter beams, which provide the support, are down 18"+ to undisturbed earth. So at this point, unless the interior of your house is caving in, I would say there's nothing wrong.

Don't get me wrong. Things should be built right. And as they say, "if you ever want anything done right, you have to do it yourself." That's why I try to do as much work as I possibly can on my places. It also gives you an appreciation for those things that you cannot do, or need someone else to fix (e.g. leveling a slab foundation, etc.) Of all the messes I have had to fix, and got myself into, what I see in your home is peanuts compared to some of the situations I've been in. And this coming from a person, who in the next month, will be tearing out an entire living room ceiling because instead of using 2 2x12's to span an 18 foot distance, the idiots used 1 2x10 - spliced in three different places! The ceiling bows/sags really bad. But that can be fixed...

[KatyHomeOwner]

A brand new house is going to go through some changes once it is built. There will be some settling. There may be some bowing of sheetrock in places. You're right though. It may be only a couple of years old, but looks like it is 10. But in 10 years it will look that way. In 20 years, it will look that way. In 30, same thing.

If you have bowed sheetrock on the ceilings... That needs to be 5/8" and not 1/2", which is used on walls, typically. You may want to check that.

BryanS thanks for your comments and knowledge.

In regards to the ceilings the builder admitted he uses 1/2" in the house and only 5/8" in the garage. My uncle told me they use 5/8" through out to avoid those issues. At first the builder wanted to mud, smooth out, and retechture my entire house. Then they came back saying its normal and they wont do anything.

[cgallagher]

It's true 5/8" sheetrock resists bowing more than 1/2", but it has more to do with the spacing of the joists where the sheetrock is attached. 16" spacing will hold sheetrock fine. 24" spacing will likely have problems.

[KatyHomeOwner]

It's true 5/8" sheetrock resists bowing more than 1/2", but it has more to do with the spacing of the joists where the sheetrock is attached. 16" spacing will hold sheetrock fine. 24" spacing will likely have problems.

Builder says I do have 1/2" in the house and I just checked and my spacing is 24". Is the builder liable for the bowing and should they repair it? If so how?

[musicman]

a house shouldn't be built with 24" spacing IMO. that's just cheap.