Root Memorial Square At 1400 Clay St.

[RedScare]

Perhaps I was a bit too generic in my description. Would "uppity, narcissistic, BMW drivers" been a better term?

I am curious at what point a citizen (or an immigrant, for that matter) loses his or her right to partake of a street or park's amenities? Is it when the clothing that one wears is not purchased first-hand from an approved retailer? Is it when one does not practice an accepted level of hygiene? Is there an income requirement to use city facilities? Should there be a "park tax" similar to the "poll tax" of year's past? Must one be able to show a City of Houston water bill to sit on a park bench? Can the residents surrounding a facility vote others out of the facility, like members of the Woodlands Athletic Center can do?

Statements such as, "it's the law, and we should be enforcing the law", seem to me to be a bit disingenuous. The purpose of these "civility ordinances" were merely to give the police an excuse to run the homeless off. They do not remedy a dangerous or unhealthy situation as assault or littering laws do. They do not address where the homeless should go. There are only a few hundred beds at the shelters. Harris County Jail only has about 9,000 beds, mostly filled with real criminals. Estimates of the homeless population run as high as 15,000 or more. Where, reasonably, can thet go?

Here's a much more detailed and eloquently written article on the problem than I could write.

http://houstonpress.com/issues/2003-06-26/.../feature_1.html

If anyone personally knows the views of any minority council members on this issue, please let me know. I'd like to discuss this issue with that council member.

"A society's integrity is judged not by its wealth and power, but by how it treats its most vulnerable members."

-author unknown

[RedScare]

To those who posted just prior to my second post, if it conflicts with a point you made, my apologies. I was writing as you posted.

My tirades are not meant as an assault on any particular group of residents, nor the race of said residents, or even the development. I go to midtown for drinks and eats more than downtown. It is more a call to seek the "root" of the problem (pun intended), and be a part of the solution.

I have yearned to live close to downtown since I moved here in 1977. I have lived close by for the last 6 years. We all have moved closer for the excitement and the diversity. We get the bad with the good.

No one has the right to urinate or defecate on your property, and I'm not advocating such. I am currently trying to catch the bastard who lets his dog crap on my Heights lawn (the dogs love my house, due to the 3 dogs in the yard), so I feel the frustration.

I suppose the reason for my rants are that I sense a lack of respect or caring for our fellow citizens, and a wish to ignore reality. This occurs on a much larger scale than just inside the loop, or even Houston. It has become our societal norm. Money and possessions have achieved such importance, that that we wish the imperfect to just go away, so that we may enjoy our things in peace.

Since, those who live far from the downtown/midtown area do not see humanity up close and, therefore, can ignore it, it is incumbent on those of us living in it, or close to it, to take the lead in helping to solve it, or at least, moderating it.

[Guest danax]

There are only a few hundred beds at the shelters.  Harris County Jail only has about 9,000 beds, mostly filled with real criminals.  Estimates of the homeless population run as high as 15,000 or more.  Where, reasonably, can thet go?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like the ones under the overpass could go sleep at the shelter....if they didn't have that drink. So they made the choice and the city is allowing them to break the law anyway. That's sounds pretty compassionate to me.

These people are either 1) serious alcoholics, 2) have grown accustomed to a nomadic lifestyle and would not like having a job no matter what or 3) both. Do they drink because their life is hard or is their life hard because they drink?

That's why there is no real solution possible. If there were, there would've been one that finally worked somewhere in the world. All we can do if have these shelters that either try to awaken their higher consiousness through religion or just feed and shelter them.

In the meantime, I don't think the entire city has to endure the panhandling, filth, drunkeness etc. in the name of compassion. By having them in the heart of our improved city, they aren't being helped anymore than they would be in a different location and businesses, residents and the city in general are hurt. Have you no compassion for the BMW drivers? They're human too, you know. Don't they have the right to protect their investments and enjoy the lifestyle that they want just like the homeless?

These shelters are a part of our total urban scene but, in the name of common sense, they need to be as far away from "normal" people as possible. Build shelters out in the boonies and put em on a bus the first time they're caught panhandling or camping out. Kind of a "safe clear" program for homeless.

[MidtownCoog]

Red, you are getting civility ordanicies confused with TX-DOT Laws.

Just check out the "No Camping" signs on every freeway.

The city did not put them there. The state did, and they are in every city.

Not all homeless are bad, but the ones who pooped on the side of my house, peed all over the place, and steal what they could take need to be dealt with.

[bachanon]

These people are either 1) serious alcoholics, 2) have grown accustomed to a nomadic lifestyle and would not like having a job no matter what or 3) both. Do they drink because their life is hard or is their life hard because they drink?

this statement is incomplete. there are many homeless who are mentally impaired, some from extreme abuse. being homeless does not equal alcoholic.

[Sunstar]

I think there's a distinction to be made between mentally impaired or alcoholic homeless persons that frequent downtown and midtown and transients that either ended up in the county jail or rode into town on Greyhound bus. IMHO, the latter are the more troublesome. Most of the stories I hear from these people start out with "I'm not from here, I'm just trying to get a bus ticket..." My guess is that a week later they end up somewhere else. They are more likely to be aggressive panhandlers and to have had previous trouble with the law. The homeless people that frequent certain neighborhoods, while considered a nuisance by most, are more likely to respond to acts of kindness, like working for a few bucks. In a strange way, they are very much a part of the communities they inhabit and approaching them more like neighbors than troublemakers might go a long way.

[KinkaidAlum]

I agree with Redscare.

Of course, it's not just the homeless that these new "urban pioneers" are fighting. They additionally want the same amenities they had when they lived outside the Loop or Beltway or wherever else they are coming from. That has led to drive thru CVS pharmacies and strip centers literally in the shadows of downtown. It's led to gated suburban style garden apartments in midtown. It's led to people wanting long time businesses that they deem unsavory to be shut down. It's led to outcries over a proposed veteran's center in a vacant building and even for cries to shut down non-profits like SEARCH, New Hope Housing, and even the Project Rowhouses because they negatively affect property values.

The funny thing is, the majority of these "pioneers" tend to drive around in SUVs with W stickers and Jesus fish emblems. For some strange reason though, I don't think Jesus would be fighting for property rights over the rights of healthcare, housing, quality public education and a host of other things we completely disregard in this society.

[midtown_resident]

They additionally want the same amenities they had when they lived outside the Loop or Beltway or wherever else they are coming from. That has led to drive thru CVS pharmacies and strip centers literally in the shadows of downtown. It's led to gated suburban style garden apartments in midtown.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

KA...i don't think it's the suburban mentality of the residents that's led to the advent off the poorly designed CVS or strip centers....or even the apartments. I think that's more a result of a lack of zoning - the builders put together whatever makes sense. Judging by the tone of all of my neighbors, the CVS is an eyesore. Likewise, we all appreciate and enjoy the true urban development that's taken place by the Post. I don't think any of us have an inkling of desire for the ridiculously poor development that's taken place with some of these strip centers and such.

[MidtownCoog]

KA, again, you are letting your bias show.

How transparent can you be? Maybe you are just out of touch, but you don't see anyone clamoring for drive through CVSs. It's the Z word.

And Jesus fish and W stickers?

Man, you are totally out of touch with the reality that is Houston.

Let me guess. You drive a Yugo, with a Kerry sticker and Darwin Rules logo on back.

Hoy vey.

[bachanon]

[Guest danax]

this statement is incomplete.  there are many homeless who are mentally impaired, some from extreme abuse.  being homeless does not equal alcoholic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True. I realized I forgot that one (mentally impaired) after I posted and left. That's the most needing help and the most difficult to help.

We lump them all into one group. The ones with the matted hair I feel pained for. The alcoholics; that's a tough one too. I once knew a guy who was one of those holding a sign. He was given a job as a roofer. He quit after a few weeks because he wanted to roam once again. I ran into a panhandler a few days ago as I was coming out of a CVS. He was panhandling in Spanish. I began talking to him and he told me he was here from Honduras and couldn't find work and was sleeping in the park. He showed me the insect bites up his arms. I asked him if he planned on staying here under these conditions. He said he wouldn't go back home because it was hard to eat down there. He was thinking about going to Virginia, where he heard there was work.

[tomv]

A friend of mine got to know a couple regulars at one of the exits along the Katy Freeway. They claimed to be out of work, down on their luck, just looking for food, etc. One day a "good samaritan" gave one of them a hundred dollar bill. They immediately bolted for a cheap motel room and some rocks of crack cocaine. I think this goes on a lot. Another reason not to give these people money.

[bachanon]

there will always be homeless people. there will always be poor people. there will always be alcoholics and the mentally impaired. that being said, who are you (am i) when someone in need approaches you. it is not my moral issue what one does with their money. you do what you feel morally inclined to do when the opportunity arises. if i feel the need to give a hand out, it is because i want to do good. if the person recieving the hand out buys a rock with it that would be their moral choice. not that i would give someone money specifically for a rock of crack, but each time i do hand someone my change or a fiver, it gives that person an "opportunity" to do a better thing. what they do with it is their issue.

that being said, i don't want to be harassed (as i have been) coming out of jones hall with a date and then being insulted because i didn't hand out some dough. whether it's a person living under a nearby bridge or a girl scout, stay out of my personal space.

[HOUCAJUN]

Don't get me wrong, this is a great discussion about the homeless, but please keep up the great updates on the park renovation.

[nmainguy]

To those who posted just prior to my second post, if it conflicts with a point you made, my apologies.  I was writing as you posted.

My tirades are not meant as an assault on any particular group of residents, nor the race of said residents, or even the development.  I go to midtown for drinks and eats more than downtown.  It is more a call to seek the "root" of the problem (pun intended), and be a part of the solution.

I have yearned to live close to downtown since I moved here in 1977.  I have lived close by for the last 6 years.  We all have moved closer for the excitement and the diversity.  We get the bad with the good.

No one has the right to urinate or defecate on your property, and I'm not advocating such.  I am currently trying to catch the bastard who lets his dog crap on my Heights lawn (the dogs love my house, due to the 3 dogs in the yard), so I feel the frustration.

I suppose the reason for my rants are that I sense a lack of respect or caring for our fellow citizens, and a wish to ignore reality.  This occurs on a much larger scale than just inside the loop, or even Houston.  It has become our societal norm.  Money and possessions have achieved such importance, that that we wish the imperfect to just go away, so that we may enjoy our things in peace.

Since, those who live far from the downtown/midtown area do not see humanity up close and, therefore, can ignore it, it is incumbent on those of us living in it, or close to it, to take the lead in helping to solve it, or at least, moderating it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a handy solution to dog crap in your yard from my best friend's experience:

When you catch the ass-wipe (pun intended), descretly follow him/her/it to find out where they live. Return home, package the crap in a plastic bag, deposit it-less the plastic bag-on their door-step with a friendly note...something like, "I won't piss on your door if you don't let your dog crap in my yard. Have a nice day! Oh yeah, about the "White people" thing, I've never actually seen a white person. I am a light tan, anglo-saxon caucasion. There are only 3 races. There are inumarable ethnicities within that group. Let's not confuse them...but I digress. The park will be great!

[RedScare]

Here's a handy solution to dog crap in your yard from my best friend's experience:

When you catch the ass-wipe (pun intended), descretly follow him/her/it to find out where they live. Return home, package the crap in a plastic bag, deposit it-less the plastic bag-on their door-step with a friendly note...something like, "I won't piss on your door if you don't let your dog crap in my yard. Have a nice day! Oh yeah, about the "White people" thing, I've never actually seen a white person. I am a light tan, anglo-saxon caucasion. There are only 3 races. There are inumarable ethnicities within that group. Let's not confuse them...but I digress. The park will be great!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm starting to believe that the person who let their dog soil my yard reads this forum, because it hasn't happened since I wrote that post.

BTW, since this was a post about a park located in the United States, I felt it appropriate to use a term used by the US Census.

"Definitions

The following definitions apply to the 2000 census only.

White refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicated their race or races as "White" or wrote in entries such as Irish, German, Italian, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish. (See also Whites)

Black or African American refers to people having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. It includes people who indicated their race or races as "Black, African Am., or Negro", or wrote in entries such as African American, Afro American, Nigerian, or West Indian.

American Indian and Alaska Native refer to people having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment. It includes people who indicated their race or races by marking this category or writing in their principal or enrolled tribe, such as Cherokee, Chippewa, or Navajo.

Asian refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent. It includes people who indicated their race or races as "Asian Indian", "Chinese", "Filipino", "Korean", "Japanese", "Vietnamese", or "Other Asian", or wrote in entries such as Burmese, Hmong, Pakistani, or Thai. (See also: Asian American)

Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands. It includes people who indicated their race or races as "Native Hawaiian", "Guamanian or Chamorro", "Samoan", or "Other Pacific Islander", or wrote in entries such as Tahitian, Mariana Islander, or Chuukese. (See also: American Pacific Islander)

Some other race was included in 2000 census for respondents who were unable to identify with the five Office of Management and Budget race categories. Respondents who provided write-in entries such as South African, Belizean, or a Hispanic origin (for example, Mexican, Puerto Rican, or Cuban) (or even American) are included in the "Some other race" category."

[YakuzaIce]

To get back on topic, here are some pics from Guess on SSP.

Root Memorial Square

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[groovehouse]

check out this list of rules!!!!!!!!

[Guest danax]

Great pics, Yakuza. It will be interesting to see how much of a crowd the court attracts. It could become a minor local attraction for all of the tourists staying nearby. Will we get the best street players in town showing up? I would've thought the court would be covered. Guess that wouldn't be authentic street basketball.? Real men dunk in the rain, I suppose.

[LTAWACS]

check out this list of rules!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No lewd behavior??? There goes the neighborhood.

[YakuzaIce]

No lewd behavior??? There goes the neighborhood.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can have all the lewd behavior you want. Just keep it off the court.

[DJ V Lawrence]

I wonder why they didn't just build two courts (one covered, and the one currently there.)

[Subdude]

Looking at the aerial shot, the surface lot across the street from the Toyota Center and adjacent to Root Square looks like an eyesore. Wasn't there talk at one point of that lot being acquired to expand the park? That seems like it would help spruce up the main entrance area.

[RedScare]

They'd never give up that great parking revenue. It seems that with 2 large hotels nearby, the convention center, a soon to be new park, Toyota being used 200 days a year, and a nearby law school, those lots would be prime locations for some street level retail, possibly with parking above. But, I suppose until Houston Pavillions is built or not, nothing else will move.

[Kirzania]

Hmm. Actually, there's that eyesore right next to the surface lot and Root that could stand to be torn down. You know, that building with all that red lettering on the top? All that space... Think of the trees they could plant there.

[houstonfella]

Downtown Soccer!!! u betcha!! go Houston!!! It's our day!

[DJ V Lawrence]

Downtown Soccer!!! u betcha!! go Houston!!! It's our day!

I hope it happens, too

[Subdude]

They actually did a nice job renovating the square. There are interesting metal sculptures in front that look like wire church steeples.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

They actually did a nice job renovating the square. There are interesting metal sculptures in front that look like wire church steeples.

Yeah you mean these metal structures

This picture isn't the greatest a bit shaky, we were in a hurry to beat the traffic

after the Rockets game

[travelguy_73]

Some updated pictures: