METRORail Green Line

[desirous]

Here's the one in Chicago:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...&iwloc=addr

It's far busier than any Houston rail intersection, and it works just fine.

[CALMSP]

Houston hasn't been proven (so to speak) that a rail system would get enough ridership to justify the cost.

what would be your source on a statement like this??? if we truly had a system where it is accessible and built to where people want to go, ridership levels would far exceed anyones goals at METRO.

[desirous]

Houston hasn't been proven (so to speak) that a rail system would get enough ridership to justify the cost.

what would be your source on a statement like this??? if we truly had a system where it is accessible and built to where people want to go, ridership levels would far exceed anyones goals at METRO.

That's not true, simply because nowhere in Houston is "accessible" because no neighborhood is dense enough to provide Chicago-like ridership. Houston can easily cover major entertainment venues and employment centers, but residential areas are too spread out at the time being.

[Trae]

Houston hasn't been proven (so to speak) that a rail system would get enough ridership to justify the cost.

what would be your source on a statement like this??? if we truly had a system where it is accessible and built to where people want to go, ridership levels would far exceed anyones goals at METRO.

The Red Line has already surpassed METRO's expectations (last year). 45,000 riders per day was not suppose to happen until 2020.

[RedScare]

Here's the one in Chicago:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&...&iwloc=addr

It's far busier than any Houston rail intersection, and it works just fine.

I don't know about METRO, but I don't believe in above ground rail, that's for sure. Can anyone reasonably look at that photo and tell me it is the least bit attractive? Why would we aspire to that hideous hunk of steel? You need to look at "streetviev" to get the full effect of its' hideousness. And, there are people that actually think we should put THAT in our streets?

[Transit Nut]

A better example of a street-level light rail "wye" is in San Jose, at N. 1st St. and W. Tasman Dr. (pick your favorite aerial map, like Google or maps.live.com); other cities also have wyes. If you are thinking of actual track crossings (at 90 degrees), downtown Portland will have two sets of light rail tracks crossing each other in a year or so; they already have their streetcar tracks crossing their light rail tracks.

[desirous]

I don't know about METRO, but I don't believe in above ground rail, that's for sure. Can anyone reasonably look at that photo and tell me it is the least bit attractive? Why would we aspire to that hideous hunk of steel? You need to look at "streetviev" to get the full effect of its' hideousness. And, there are people that actually think we should put THAT in our streets?

Elevated tracks in Northeastern cities help add character, but they'd be horribly out of place in Houston. I've lived in Chicago; tell a Chicagoan to demolish their L and they'll be offended. It's all about the vibe.

[KinkaidAlum]

Boston has gotten rid of most of the elevated T tracks. The only ones left that I know of are right before water crossings (Green Line between Science Museum/Charles River Park and Lechmere on the Cambridge side) and (Red Line between MGH and Kendall Square/MIT on the Cambridge side). They are required to reach the bridge...

[CDeb]

Elevated tracks in Northeastern cities help add character, but they'd be horribly out of place in Houston. I've lived in Chicago; tell a Chicagoan to demolish their L and they'll be offended. It's all about the vibe.

I wonder if that opinion is shared by the people that actually have to live near it.

[Highway6]

I don't know about METRO, but I don't believe in above ground rail, that's for sure. Can anyone reasonably look at that photo and tell me it is the least bit attractive? Why would we aspire to that hideous hunk of steel? You need to look at "streetviev" to get the full effect of its' hideousness. And, there are people that actually think we should put THAT in our streets?

Helps to look at it from a human's perspective before you start judging beauty.

I know we do things concrete in the south since it's cheaper, but there is something to be said for the aesthetic qualities of steel over concrete in some applications. I'd take the less mass, light allowing, intricate/delicate beauty of steel overpasses over our brutal concrete any day. Steel can be as attractive if not more so than concrete... but to each their own I suppose.

Though i do agree with Desirious.. It wouldnt exactly be Houston if we did have this.

I'm not saying we line Richmond Ave with this....

If we HAD to go elevated in some places, I'd rather see something more like this..

From my 3 day vacation to Chicago this past weekend...

...Than this.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Highway6

[RedScare]

If I'm making a rap video or a chase scene for a 70s crime drama, sure, give me the El. If I live in a 2nd floor flat on W. Belden like my friend did, well let's just say that there is a slight difference between a tourist taking pictures on a 3 day vacation, and listening to a train on a steel trestle less than 10 feet from your bedroom window.

PS - For those who think I am exagerating, go to MSN LiveSearch Maps and typ in 950 w. Belden. Look for the intersection with N Bissell. Halfway down the street is my buddy's flat. Oh look! Here comes the train!

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?wip=2&am...&FORM=MSNH#

Edited July 18, 2008 by RedScare

[Highway6]

If I'm making a rap video or a chase scene for a 70s crime drama, sure, give me the El. If I live in a 2nd floor flat on W. Belden like my friend did, well let's just say that there is a slight difference between a tourist taking pictures on a 3 day vacation, and listening to a train on a steel trestle less than 10 feet from your bedroom window.

Try keeping it on point, shall we

Your initial post, #125, was purely on aesthetics.

My reply was only on aesthetics.

So bringing up Noise levels is 100% irrelevant. I'm not arguing for a completely elevated system like Chicago...

I am arguing that steel overpasses can be more attractive than concrete overpasses IF needed. Thats all. If your aethetic tastes disagree with mine.. Fine.. but dont try to poo-poo my entire post by hijacking and arguing against something that I didnt bring up - noise.

let's just say that there is a slight difference between a tourist taking pictures on a 3 day vacation

This, after you judge the aesthetics of an elevated bridge from google maps... awesome.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Highway6

[RedScare]

OK, back on point.

The aesthetics suck, too. Steel supports of various paint colors to cover up the gang graffitti look good in rap videos....only.

[Highway6]

OK, back on point.

The aesthetics suck, too. Steel supports of various paint colors to cover up the gang graffitti look good in rap videos....only.

Yeah.. lucky for us our concrete is graffiti-proof !!!

and actually, our massive concrete bridge supports have much more surface area.. so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we have the more graffitti-potential overpasses.

Edited July 18, 2008 by Highway6

[RedScare]

Actually, like utility poles and railroad bridges, I like steel els. It is the digging a couple of holes in the middle of the street and burying the supports that gets me. The funny part is the anti-METRO crowd is always complaining about how you can't run light rail in the middle of the street, but apparently you CAN bury trestle supports in the middle of the street. That's OK.

I believe that was a successful transition back to the subject of the thread, don't you?

[Highway6]

Actually, like utility poles and railroad bridges, I like steel els. It is the digging a couple of holes in the middle of the street and burying the supports that gets me. The funny part is the anti-METRO crowd is always complaining about how you can't run light rail in the middle of the street, but apparently you CAN bury trestle supports in the middle of the street. That's OK.

I believe that was a successful transition back to the subject of the thread, don't you?

Aesthetics aside, that part was a little wonky... like you said, in some places downtown, the steel supports came down on one side - at the curb, and on the other side, 5' off the curb in the street.... it did make parallel parking a little bit more challenging..... and i couldnt see a reason why this was so, because they certainly had the room in lots of places to have the column spacing a little bit wider to prevent this.

How bout this... we commission the guy that did the SS uptown arches to design our elevated, suspended rail, supports.

I get my concrete-less system, you get your unobstructed streets.. we both ride happy.

[desirous]

Ha, that's a good one. Elevate an LRT line with a battalion of Uptown-style arches.

[PuroAztlan]

Yo creo esta con madre they're gonna call it The "Brown" Line, ese.

[Vertigo58]

Yo creo esta con madre they're gonna call it The "Brown" Line, ese.

Es mejor a decir la pinche madre no? Como queira, lo van a llamar "el cabron line color de caca". Eso si se joye mas bien como no? Va ir en medio de el barrio de cabrones! Ja! Ya es tiempo de garar unas birongas no?

[musicman]

eres rata del barrio!

[PuroAztlan]

Es mejor a decir la pinche madre no? Como queira, lo van a llamar "el cabron line color de caca". Eso si se joye mas bien como no?

Simon, ese. Cuando yo oigo "the brown line" pienso de un par de chones con pinche skid marks.

[Vertigo58]

Simon, ese. Cuando yo oigo "the brown line" pienso de un par de chones con pinche skid marks.

Now, your killing me. Ok out of kindness, back to Inglese. Never thought of how one would say Hijack in Spanolo? Hola Juan or jackee-o ? I think it sustantivo? no its secustrar!

en Italiano e dirrotare... capisce?

[Houston19514]

Helps to look at it from a human's perspective before you start judging beauty.

I know we do things concrete in the south since it's cheaper, but there is something to be said for the aesthetic qualities of steel over concrete in some applications. I'd take the less mass, light allowing, intricate/delicate beauty of steel overpasses over our brutal concrete any day. Steel can be as attractive if not more so than concrete... but to each their own I suppose.

Though i do agree with Desirious.. It wouldnt exactly be Houston if we did have this.

I'm not saying we line Richmond Ave with this....

If we HAD to go elevated in some places, I'd rather see something more like this..

From my 3 day vacation to Chicago this past weekend...

...Than this.

Comparing a photo of the el that you obviously composed to capture the "intricate/delicate beauty of steel overpasses" to a photo of one of the more unsightly concrete overpasses in town (and under construction, no less) doesn't quite give us a realistic comparison, especially when you didn't even capture the ground level of the supports of the el...

Edited July 21, 2008 by Houston19514

[Vertigo58]

I agree. All we have to do is use the same ideas of a monorail. Nothing unsightly about this. We just need monorail to hell with it. Houston, city of the future!

[Highway6]

Comparing a photo of the el that you obviously composed to capture the "intricate/delicate beauty of steel overpasses" to a photo of one of the more unsightly concrete overpasses in town (and under construction, no less) doesn't quite give us a realistic comparison, especially when you didn't even capture the ground level of the supports of the el...

Sorry my photo wasnt up to snuff for ya. It was from inside slightly moving car with traffic behind me and I was behind the wheel as well as the viewfinder....... you're right.. was so very carefully composed.

The concrete photo, i stole from flikr... the only thing i tried to show was the same angle - fully under the overpass, not off to the side.

No matter how the photos are composed, in one you're gonna have more slender structural members, and you're going to have light coming through.... in the other, you're going to have more massive members, and zero light coming through.

The following all from flickr, not taken by me. I went the extra mile to try to find beautifully composed photos for the concrete shots.. and again, i tried to get the same angle as well as size overpass for all three shots.

Please take note of the light the different overpasses allow to pass through ( also note that the right half of shadows in the top photo are caused by the bldg, not the overpass)... Also please compare the footprint of the various structural members as they reach the ground.

[Joke]

... It is the digging a couple of holes in the middle of the street and burying the supports that gets me. The funny part is the anti-METRO crowd is always complaining about how you can't run light rail in the middle of the street, but apparently you CAN bury trestle supports in the middle of the street. That's OK.

...

Well, when the supports start traveling through intersections, blocking cross-flow and left turns from parallel flow, then I'll agree that supports are equally as problematic as at-grade trains. But as long as the supports stay fixed in the ground, they seem A-OK to me.

That's not to say I'm anti-light rail - I use it and I like it. [FWIW, I think it's significantly improved since they "fixed" the timing of the lights in downtown.] But as I've gotten used to it bring in my neighborhood, it's caused me to mentally cut the midtown/downtown area into two halves; I tend to stay on my half when I'm driving anywhere (and I stay off Main Street completely) because it's frustrating to have to circle around when you cross through or make a left turn. Rail above or below grade wouldn't have had any of those consequences.

[editor]

Got this press release yesterday:

METRO RECEIVES FINAL FEDERAL APPROVAL FOR SOUTHEAST LIGHT-RAIL LINE

METRO reached another critical milestone in the build-out of the METRO Solutions Phase 2 plan: the Federal Transit Administration (FTA) granted its final approval of the Southeast Corridor Supplemental Final Environmental Statement (SFEIS) through a document known as a Record of Decision (ROD).

The FTA made its decision in part because the project would be a permanent investment, and therefore "this new transit system has the potential to positively influence economic development in the Southeast Corridor consistent with community plans."

Earlier this month the FTA granted a ROD for the North Corridor light-rail project. The RODs are a key step toward obtaining federal funding, as they establish that these two projects satisfy the National Environmental Policy Act, the Clean Air Act, the National Historic Preservation Act and other legal requirements. The RODs also documents the many opportunities afforded to the community to voice their concerns.

METRO is seeking federal funds for three of the five light-rail expansion lines. In addition to the North and Southeast Corridors, the agency will seek federal funds for the University Corridor. The University Corridor light-rail project is still in the environmental process.

These three lines, together with the Uptown and East End lines, are scheduled to be completed in 2012. Construction is already underway in the East End. Now that METRO has obtained the two RODs, METRO can resume the purchase of property for the right-of-way. Groundbreaking for the North and Southeast lines is expected this Fall.

[editor]

It isn't fair to compare this photo with what Metro is trying to accomplish in Houston.

What you see here is a choke point in the CTA system where several lines come together. The elevated structure services the Brown Line, the Red Line, and the Purple Line -- three transit lines, not the one proposed in Houston.

Further, the portion on the far right (and on the far left that you can't see) is for freight. Or at least it was for freight until the CTA stopped running freight on its lines in the 80's.

I don't recall Metro proposing to use its light rail lines for freight.

The portion just to the left of the freight line is a maintenance walkway for workers.

It's also worth noting that this structure was built more than 100 years ago and because of that legacy is maintained to the same standards. It cannot be modernized for a number of reasons. I would assume that Metro will adopt 2008 standards of construction, not the 1888 methods used on Chicago's Ravenswood line.

[ricco67]

I had a little free time on my hands today, so I meandered my way home via the eastside (Mock Gang sign) to run part of the future route. Heading under the tunnel (as opposed to over the tunnel), I was VERY surprised to see several support columns in the median that seem to be on their way to going OVER the railroad. As my eyes followed the line of columns to the road (I AM driving, after all), I also noticed a number of trees that had a barrier generally denoting that the trees are to live.

I'm quite sure the ones with the barrier were thrilled. The others are probably worried as hell.

a few blocks down, I saw the "Rail Construction ahead" sign. That cracked me up. apparently the train is dangerous even under construction.

It was then that I saw the actual construction site and it seemed that they were progressing quite well.

Anyone know what's up with the columns though? is that related or something different?

[arisegundo]

Anyone know what's up with the columns though? is that related or something different?

They light up at night and I think they're just decoration.